Naval Sims for Console, Thoughts?

[CM_Beagle]

I'm looking for some input on the thought of doing a Naval Combat simulation for a gaming console (ie XBox, PS). The reasoning behind this is to counter two of the biggest problems I faced when I worked in gaming. The first of which is it provides a known system to develop for. I can't remember how many times I would get emails (small company, lots of hats) from customers complaining that they were getting single digit frames per second. A lot of people weren't even certain of how much RAM they had, didn't know where to find that information, and let's not even go into the video card issue. In contrast having a known fixed console to develop for does ensure that if it works well on an XBox at development there are extremely good odds it will work well on the user end. The other issue revolved around piracy, it seemed as soon as a new product shipped within a week of the first customers receiving it, a quick search online would find it listed on various torrent sites. Revenue dropped to piracy to the point that I found it more lucrative to go back to wrenching and welding (hence the CM as part of my user name, Construction Mechanic).

The other thing that brought me to realizing that such a simulation could be possible is getting back into Falcon 4 recently. Since virtually all of the cockpit controls are mouse controllable, there is not a need for a lot of key strokes, and I simply control the mouse with one of the hats on my HOTAS setup. Instead of assigning various key commands to different interactions by using interactive switches/buttons conforming to real life controls, one could conceivably control a sim with something as simple as an XBox controller. Navigation from station to station would have to be accomplished by moving throughout the sim, no "warping" from nav table to radio room.

Right now all I'm looking for is simply some feedback as to whether or not people would be open to a Naval Sim on a platform such as XBox. Currently I'm using the term Naval Sim, primarily because though I am a big fan of Sub Sims, I also have an interest in surface warfare. In addition to answering yes you would be open to it or no you don't like the idea, give me some feedback as to why. I realize asking for opinions on an internet forum is like opening a can of worms bigger than the can that USMC mashed potato powder came in; however, I've been around these forums for some time (not active for many years though, and under a different username which I forgot) and most of the people around here seem to be level headed, if not under sea level.

[Chad]

I have toyed with the idea of a subsim on the Wii. This is possible with the current engine I am using, however, I don't own a Wii, so I'd be unable to play my own game :yep:

[ajrimmer42]

Sounds interesting to me, as long as it would be on PS aswell :03: I'm not a fan of xbox. :shifty:

[Arclight]

Don't own a console beyond PS2, but the idea is interesting. Though I must admit I feel like games like P.T.O. on the SNES, or War in the Pacific on PC, are the type of sims more suited for console development.

Not sure a console has the resources for a "true", "full 3D" sim. :hmmm:

[danlisa]

Sure, I would be interested.

Don't sell yourself short though. While the Xbox is an interesting temptation thanks to it's roots in PC coding and architecture, it is not the most versatile choice. Why limit yourself to replicating PC mouse actions with a joypad, why not use a mouse and keyboard on a console? It only needs the correct coding. Couple that with native plug and play peripherals such as HOTAS controls etc.

My advice, forget the limits on console RAM and GFX cards. Find out what you can load directly to the CPUs and wait for the 720. ;)

Not sure a console has the resources for a "true", "full 3D" sim. :hmmm:

:rotfl2: There you go again! Stop thinking about RAM and GFX card limitations of consoles, esp the PS3 and the Cell. You know I'll always call you on it.:DL

The Cell (and by default the PS3) is more than capable of running realistic simulations. Heck even the mighty US airforce bought around 3000 of them for 'training' purposes.

The misconception that console architecture is not up to the task is thanks solely to the different approach needed to garnish the same results. If you took the latest PC Processor and the current Cell, coded a task specifically for each one, the Cell will always beat the PC CPU. I say it all the time, it's all about the instructions and coding. PC game developers have become lazy and sloppy when designing new titles and seem not to care when releasing games that have huge memory holes in them causing your latest and greatest PC kit to fall on it's knees. The 'safety net' of more RAM and more GPU power is nice to have. ;)

The Cell is a beast when it comes to crunching data and TBH, if a serious simulation (be it flight or naval) came to the PS3, I would be more than happy with an acurate and realistic simulation at the expense of graphics (bells & whistles). Damn, I still play Flight Sim 2002 and 2004 for their accuracy rather than beauty.

[Egan]

Aside from the fact that I have no intention of ever buying a console of any sort I am not theoretically opposed to the concept of sims on formats other than PC's. I do however have a couple of worries. As i have not really messed around with consoles since the original Playstation came along I might simply be out of touch, but how possible is either modding or scenario editing on the current crop of consoles? I ask because as someone who really only plays sims and strategy games any more, the ability to either mod or create my own scenarios is very, very important and I know that this is a view that is shared by many people. for a lot of us sims are more than just what comes in the box and I'd need to be convinced before I bought a console based title.

It's interesting that you bring up controllers in Falcon 4 as the fully clickable and functional cockpit in that title has often been held up as one of the many important factors separating it from competitors - not that it really has any. Pesonally, I've always hated using the mini mouse stick on my HOTAS for clicking in stuff - i've just never got used to it. That's just me though.

To be honest, I think the biggest battle you would likely face would be from simmers who - sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly - believe that their favoured genre is already dumbing down. Any sim on a consle is going to have an uphill fight. Us simmers can be a pretty fundamentalist bunch as I'm sure you know, and consoles are often seen as a distraction from the very, very serious business of simming..:DL

Ah, heck. I'm sure you know all of this. A sim on a console? sure, dont see why not, I bet you could run SH5 on a current gen console with little alteration. A hardcore Falcon4 style sim? Well.....If you make it I'll definately take a look.

[danlisa]

.....but how possible is either modding or scenario editing on the current crop of consoles? I ask because as someone who really only plays sims and strategy games any more, the ability to either mod or create my own scenarios is very, very important and I know that this is a view that is shared by many people........

Certainly possible.

While not in the same genre. Unreal Tournament 3 has a full set of modding tools (for use on a PC) which allow the mods to be applied to the console version. Map, Characters, Weapons, abilities etc....

I share your concern though. However, what I would like to see is a Sim that doesn't require modding, at least not to improve the base model functionality, perhaps to add different vessel types etc but not the core game. Yeah, I know 'perfect world' and all that. :)

[Arclight]

:rotfl2: There you go again! Stop thinking about RAM and GFX card limitations of consoles, esp the PS3 and the Cell. You know I'll always call you on it.:DL
I'm glad you do, I need reminding sometimes. ;)

True, optimization for a specific set of hardwate let's you take full use of it's capabilities. Use of resources on PC, keeping the unlimited variations in mind, is terribly wastefull in comparison.

[Egan]

Certainly possible.

While not in the same genre. Unreal Tournament 3 has a full set of modding tools (for use on a PC) which allow the mods to be applied to the console version. Map, Characters, Weapons, abilities etc....

I share your concern though. However, what I would like to see is a Sim that doesn't require modding, at least not to improve the base model functionality, perhaps to add different vessel types etc but not the core game. Yeah, I know 'perfect world' and all that. :)

I would also like a sim that required no modding other than creating other scenarios. It's actually one of the things I like most about the Combat mission series where - aside from skins, sounds and scenarios - nothing can be changed by people the dev team. IL2 was like that until recently as well, of course.

[CM_Beagle]

I must admit, and rather sheepishly at that :oops:, that I had not yet thought about the ability of users to mod things. I got my start by doing mods for Microsoft Train Simulator, and I can say that I would never even think about buying a train-sim that did not allow new content creation. Also, aside from buying the initial version to check out, I have not yet bought any follow ons to Ship Simulator for the simple reason that they do not allow for user created content. I've never been content with only looking at what has been within capabilities to the present point.

For what it's worth, I don't even own a console at the moment. The topic came to my mind as I was beginning to work with the XNA framework and saw the ability to write for Xbox as well as PC. Certainly if anything was done for a console I realize the importance of including more than just Xbox. It's the one I use in examples as it's the one I'm most familiar with, I like some of the features that PS3 has to offer, but at the same time, I prefer the way that the 360 controller fits my hands. Is it me or do they try to find the person with the smallest hands on earth to make electronic devices for:damn:, although I guess when you work with impact wrenches that weigh near 30lbs you get to prefer things a little larger.

Currently everything is still in the pencil and paper stage of development, trying to program without a good outline is like trying to sail without charts.