Marean M speaks about modding SH5 28/01/2010

[THE_MASK]

Quote from Marean M (DEV Ubisoft Romania)
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=160899

"You can transform the entire content of the game to your liking and it will still work.

You can mod the dynamic campaign, the missions, objectives, ships (AI <yes, for the first time>, characteristics, textures), crew (AI, dialogs <including sounds>, abilities, appearance), game commands, the interface, keyboard layout, graphic shaders.

You'll have the old tools (Mission Editor) plus some new ones, we hope you'll enjoy. That's exactly the same tools the team used to create the game in the first place.

The game is even more mod-able than SH3 and SH4. The entire team has gone to great lengths to give you an open ground to work your magic, so the end result is a game you enjoy, a game that can proudly sit in the hall of fame of submarine simulations, a game that sets a new standard for submarine games to come.

regards,
M. "

[Task Force]

sounds good. But not to bring it up again. The DRM pretty much spashes it to peices... and modders cant mod if they wont buy the game...

[THE_MASK]

sounds good. But not to bring it up again. The DRM pretty much spashes it to peices... and modders cant mod if they wont buy the game...
That is true , i put this on a seperate thread because i thought it was important news anyway LOL .
I still wont be buying it with the OSP (DRM) .

[Task Force]

Lol, yea... But ya know what, maby that will bring in a whole new group of new modders to fill in for the ones who didnt upgrade!

"whistles the always look on the bright side of life tune from monty python."

[Méo]

Finally, very good news! :up:

modders cant mod if they wont buy the game...

I did not see any member or retired members of the GWX Team saying he would boycott SHV.

[Ducimus]

You'll have the old tools (Mission Editor) plus some new ones, we hope you'll enjoy. That's exactly the same tools the team used to create the game in the first place.

If thats true, then you'll see a whole new crop of modders. Im picturing something like a TES construction kit for Oblivion, or the GECK for Fallout 3. Those games have tons of mods and modders. So, if it is along the same vain, then you'll have more mods then you'll know what to do with.

Hmm Mod soup........:haha:

[Reece]

Since I'm not going to purchase the game while DRM is in place I couldn't give a hoot about modding!!:nope:

[JScones]

If thats true, then you'll see a whole new crop of modders. Im picturing something like a TES construction kit for Oblivion, or the GECK for Fallout 3. Those games have tons of mods and modders. So, if it is along the same vain, then you'll have more mods then you'll know what to do with.

Hmm Mod soup........:haha:
Good point actually - many thought (think) that SH3 was mod soup (dunno about SH4), so just imagine what it's gonna be like if SH5 modders are empowered with new tools! "Can someone pls explain why my game is crashing - I only have 752 mods installed, so it should be stable?!"

It's great that the game is (allegedly) more moddable than SH3 and SH4 and it's great that the devs have included some mod development tools, but IMHO mod control is gonna be a real b!tch!

[McBeck]

Good point actually - many thought (think) that SH3 was mod soup (dunno about SH4), so just imagine what it's gonna be like if SH5 modders are empowered with new tools! "Can someone pls explain why my game is crashing - I only have 752 mods installed, so it should be stable?!"

It's great that the game is (allegedly) more moddable than SH3 and SH4 and it's great that the devs have included some mod development tools, but IMHO mod control is gonna be a real b!tch!
lol...yeah...we are in a world of hurt - too many mods!!! :D

[Boris]

It's great how you guys can find a negative spin on everything! :DL

[Alienfresser]

Well, he didn't said a word about adding or altering the models.

Hey, just wanted to find some negative thing to report.

[JScones]

I did not see any member or retired members of the GWX Team saying he would boycott SHV.
Then you are obviously not looking hard enough. ;)

lol...yeah...we are in a world of hurt - too many mods!!! :D
It's great how you guys can find a negative spin on everything! :DL
You guys laugh now. :O:

Don't get me wrong, accessibility to modding can only be a good thing, but it will get messy - just go over to the SH3 modding forums and see how many people are posting JSGME screenshots asking for advice on why their games are crashing. That's not negative, that's fact.

Quite a while ago someone came up with an ambitious plan to build a mod database that would be used to record mods, compatibilities and so on. Way over the top at the time...but maybe something for re-consideration once the lay of the land is known...

[Adriatico]

If somebody is offering the car - with key and handbrake depending on seller after purchase... who cares if seats and wheals are mod-able ?
:hmmm:

[Boris]

Then you are obviously not looking hard enough. ;)



You guys laugh now. :O:

Don't get me wrong, accessibility to modding can only be a good thing, but it will get messy - just go over to the SH3 modding forums and see how many people are posting JSGME screenshots asking for advice on why their games are crashing. That's not negative, that's fact.

Quite a while ago someone came up with an ambitious plan to build a mod database that would be used to record mods, compatibilities and so on. Way over the top at the time...but maybe something for re-consideration once the lay of the land is known...

Fair enough... but think how long subsim members have been petitioning for an SDK. Because this is pretty much what it sounds like. Considering this, I'm amazed at the lacklustre response to this news.

[onelifecrisis]

Good point actually - many thought (think) that SH3 was mod soup (dunno about SH4), so just imagine what it's gonna be like if SH5 modders are empowered with new tools! "Can someone pls explain why my game is crashing - I only have 752 mods installed, so it should be stable?!"

It's great that the game is (allegedly) more moddable than SH3 and SH4 and it's great that the devs have included some mod development tools, but IMHO mod control is gonna be a real b!tch!

Mod control is always a bitch and it's IMO down to the user, not the modders, to only use mods that are compatible with each other. You only need two incompatible mods (not seven hundred!) to break a game. In fact you don't even need two mods - one bad mod alone will do it! This is why with any game I will only ever use a handful of good quality 'essential' mods. People who use seven hundred mods on a game only have themselves to blame when it goes tits up.

On topic: this sounds like good news, but I'm still hoping that the game plays fine without any mods at all. ;)

[sk065]

good news but too little too late me thinks.....

[stabiz]

Fair enough... but think how long subsim members have been petitioning for an SDK. Because this is pretty much what it sounds like. Considering this, I'm amazed at the lacklustre response to this news.

I agree, this can only be VERY good news.

[Adriatico]

It's great how you guys can find a negative spin on everything! :DL
Did you ever asked yourself what % of this planet has the internet connection of the same quality as Hamburg ?
:06:

[stabiz]

Did you ever asked yourself what % of this planet has the internet connection of the same quality as Hamburg ?
:06:

:rotfl2:I`m with ya, but thats not really the point in this one.

[Boris]

Did you ever asked yourself what % of this planet has the internet connection of the same quality as Hamburg ?
:06:

My internet connection is awesome!!! :yeah: 32Mbits for 30 Euros a month :DL
So I'd say very few people around the world have that kind of connection.

But that's not the topic here. The fact we're getting comprehensive modding tools is great.
But yes, it is a shame that the DRM sullies such great prospects.

[Adriatico]

My internet connection is awesome!!! :yeah: 32Mbits for 30 Euros a month :DL
So I'd say very few people around the world have that kind of connection.



It's not about the speed but reliability...
You should see my face when I sneak into convoy after 30 min of sweating and brain storming - with a massage on periscope "lost internet connection" !

But let us not steal the thread...

[EAF274 Johan]

crew (AI, dialogs <including sounds>, abilities, appearance)
I for one am very happy to hear that :up:

[Ducimus]

Good point actually - many thought (think) that SH3 was mod soup (dunno about SH4), so just imagine what it's gonna be like if SH5 modders are empowered with new tools! "Can someone pls explain why my game is crashing - I only have 752 mods installed, so it should be stable?!"

It's great that the game is (allegedly) more moddable than SH3 and SH4 and it's great that the devs have included some mod development tools, but IMHO mod control is gonna be a real b!tch!


Ohhh you have no idea. let me put it this way. Amongst us modders in SH4, we have what we call, "The circle runner award". We joke about it in private, and the pun being the mod combination cited by the end user, is tantamount to shooting a circular running torpedo.

Here's a few of the finer examples:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1241372&postcount=11
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1197176&postcount=1485
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1065055&postcount=997
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1039636&postcount=1


Imagine this, X 10. :har:

As an aside, I post this, in this manner so that if some end users from SH4 do read this.. Jebus H chris guys, Go easy with the mod combinations! If your using a supermod, odds are it's already incorporated the small stuff!

[McBeck]

Ohhh you have no idea. let me put it this way. Amongst us modders in SH4, we have what we call, "The circle runner award". We joke about it in private, and the pun being the mod combination cited by the end user, is tantamount to shooting a circular running torpedo.

Here's a few of the finer examples:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1241372&postcount=11
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1197176&postcount=1485
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1065055&postcount=997
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147762


Imagine this, X 10. :har:

As an aside, I post this, in this manner so that if some end users from SH4 do read this.. Jebus H chris guys, Go easy with the mod combinations! If your using a supermod, odds are it's already incorporated the small stuff!
Just checked the links.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA :har::har:

I never imagined people having soooo many mods on.
Im worried with only 5, some of these list are looooong!!

[martes86]

Did you ever asked yourself what % of this planet has the internet connection of the same quality as Hamburg ?
:06:
My internet connection is awesome!!! :yeah: 32Mbits for 30 Euros a month :DL
So I'd say very few people around the world have that kind of connection.

Wow, you're one lucky guy. I think we're paying about +100 euros a month for our 12MB cable internet (plus phone and TV). And we're damn lucky about it. Not too long ago, 3MB ADSL could be priced at 60 euros/month or more, and the service would be crap. And a lot of small towns here (even some capitals are small) don't have that much coverage, being stuck most of the time with the usual monopolistic crappy ADSL. Obviously, they didn't think of countries like ours, where we're still struggling to get quality offers.

Anyways, back on topic (sorry about that), I think I'll buy it anyways, just in case, and to try it of course, to see how it all ended since we saw the preview at Copenhaguen. And if I see the modding (and script programming) is fair enough (Mihai's post just gave me some hope again), I might even get into releasing mod stuff. But I need to try it first, I might even post a review, so that eveyone knows what they're getting their hands on to.

Cheers :rock:

[urfisch]

That's the main problem for Ubi, one week ago (pre DRM announcement) this news would have made 15 pages of discussion in just a few hours and Urfish's modding thread would be bouncing.
Now people are happy but since most of us won't be buying (and modding) the game before DRM is removed, and this might mean not before 6 months or who knows how long, well... Not so exciting.

the whole information policy is pure crap!!! nothing to add on this topic...

:down:

[KL-alfman]

this really sounds good news!
it seems that OSP doesn't interfere with modding at all.
and integrating mod-tool-kits isn't that bad either.

great achievement by the dev-team!! :up:

[HundertzehnGustav]

All this sounds like a Microsoft Combat Submarine simulator.

The DRM might break the deal now, but once patched out, i might join.
but only when they change their game and let me play it offline.

[Sulikate]

Good news indeed, but the DRM still wrecks my party.

[KL-alfman]

Good news indeed, but the DRM still wrecks my party.


rightey-right.
but it isn't topic in this thread! :03::up:

[Méo]

Then you are obviously not looking hard enough. ;)

Very true!

But if people here would keep all the comments/complains about DRM in 2 or 3 threads, it would be kinda easier to check it out, don't you think? ;)

[JScones]

But if people here would keep all the comments/complains about DRM in 2 or 3 threads, it would be kinda easier to check it out, don't you think? ;)
:up: Meo, you are scaring me - we are starting to agree way too much for my liking. :rotfl2:

[KL-alfman]

I second that.
all the DRM-issue-threads should be narrowed down to ~ 4or5. would make the board easier to read.

[Seeadler]

Fair enough... but think how long subsim members have been petitioning for an SDK.
The SH3 devs said the same thing about the SH3 Harbour-Kit SDK in an interview that they will make it available to the community along with the game. And where is it today?:hmmm:

[Boris]

The SH3 devs said the same thing about the SH3 Harbour-Kit SDK in an interview that they will make it available to the community along with the game. And where is it today?:hmmm:

Well I'll just cross my fingers and hope it'll be different this time

[McBeck]

The SH3 devs said the same thing about the SH3 Harbour-Kit SDK in an interview that they will make it available to the community along with the game. And where is it today?:hmmm:
I think we are too close to release for them to go back on that promise.

[urfisch]

hopefully the tools for sh5 they are speaking of, are already finished.

[jdkbph]

If thats true, then you'll see a whole new crop of modders. Im picturing something like a TES construction kit for Oblivion, or the GECK for Fallout 3. Those games have tons of mods and modders. So, if it is along the same vain, then you'll have more mods then you'll know what to do with.


Yeah, unfortunately most of them will probably be of the "make the sub go 100 MPH" or "shoot 50 torpedoes at once" variety.

[McBeck]

Yeah, unfortunately most of them will probably be of the "make the sub go 100 MPH" or "shoot 50 torpedoes at once" variety.I suggest we get them in our hands before starting these specualtions...they have told us they will give us the same tools they have used to build the game, but that could again mean alot of things...

[AVGWarhawk]

Read the readme file. :D

[msalama]

Read the readme file. :DBeing the thick old me I either:

1) Missed the joke or
2) Missed the readme

So which one is it huh :ping:

PS. AAAAAAND it _is_ the SH5 readme we're talking about, isn't it?
PPS. Beer = good.

[Jimbuna]

The SH3 devs said the same thing about the SH3 Harbour-Kit SDK in an interview that they will make it available to the community along with the game. And where is it today?:hmmm:

Hopefully...this time round :yep:

[Kefru]

Can someone mod it so that I can play offline :yep:

[floundericiousWA]

Fair enough... but think how long subsim members have been petitioning for an SDK. Because this is pretty much what it sounds like. Considering this, I'm amazed at the lacklustre response to this news.

Indeed, it sounds like a good thing! I'm also confident in the ability of the SubSim community to police and organize mods through the forum and download page. I usually get mods from the SS downloads page, not from other sources, and look for mods that are at [REL]

[floundericiousWA]

hopefully the tools for sh5 they are speaking of, are already finished.

Hopefully they're the tools the dev team has used to design much of the in-game content!

[mookiemookie]

Hopefully they're the tools the dev team has used to design much of the in-game content!

You'll have the old tools (Mission Editor) plus some new ones, we hope you'll enjoy. That's exactly the same tools the team used to create the game in the first place.

That's what Mihai said.

[bigboywooly]

That's what Mihai said.

Yeah but they also said we would have the harbour editor released just after SH3
And we all know how that ended up

Fingers crossed this time it happens

[urfisch]

Yeah but they also said we would have the harbour editor released just after SH3
And we all know how that ended up

Fingers crossed this time it happens

right. lets see, how much we can trust these words this time...

[Hartmann]

Good point actually - many thought (think) that SH3 was mod soup (dunno about SH4), so just imagine what it's gonna be like if SH5 modders are empowered with new tools! "Can someone pls explain why my game is crashing - I only have 752 mods installed, so it should be stable?!"

It's great that the game is (allegedly) more moddable than SH3 and SH4 and it's great that the devs have included some mod development tools, but IMHO mod control is gonna be a real b!tch!


Yes it´s true but a skilled team can do a good mod pack if there are better tools.

for example i have GWX with some personal tweaks ( cfg and other mods), it saves me of a lot of problems or crashes.

[CaptainHaplo]

Even without the OSP concerns of mod control....

Forgive me (or don't) for being skeptical but I seem to remember being told with both SH3 AND SH4 that the plan was to release an SDK to make modding alot easier....

How bout those great tools we have been provided in the past?

I'll believe it when I see it.

[Rosencrantz]

Well, at least some good news for a while...

Because, what happened to III and IV without mods? Sudden death?


-RC-

[Nisgeis]

Quote from Marean M (DEV Ubisoft Romania)
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=160899

"You can transform the entire content of the game to your liking and it will still work.

You can mod the dynamic campaign, the missions, objectives, ships (AI <yes, for the first time>, characteristics, textures), crew (AI, dialogs <including sounds>, abilities, appearance), game commands, the interface, keyboard layout, graphic shaders.

Hmmm, I read somewhere else that not all of the game's commands were available to the scripting language. I'd like to see the game before I get all frothy, but it does sound like great news. If it happens.

Of course, as long as Ubi don't do some weird Digital Mod Rights management software - DMR :-). Get your mods from the big friendly Ubi server kids AND NO WHERE ELSE! But that's just an unlikely conspiracy theory. More Kool-Aid soup Captain?

[Sailor Steve]

Well, the whole DRM thing aside, this sounds pretty good to me.

The campaign only goes to 1943? GWX, NYGM and WAC all pretty much threw the SH3 campaign out the window and started from scratch; and the same with RSRD for SH4, and everybody who plays any uses any SH4 supermod uses that one as well. With that in mind, and the time limits facing them, the devs might just have made exactly the right decision.

Only the Type VII? Considering how much time they would need to build the other boats and script in all the crews, they may not have had much choice. And if Mihai's statement includes the ability to build boats and add crew to them, then it won't be much of an obstacle at all, especially if it's made so even a novice can do it.

The same applies to the limited number of merchants in SH3 and SH4 - they they have made it easier to add them in SH5. We'll see.

So I'm hoping that the complaints about the limited campaign and u-boat types are rendered a non-issue by the announced modability. If so, this may really turn out to be the best subsim ever.

No if we can only do something about that DRM thing.

[andycaccia]

MODS kept SH3 and SH4 alive for years. I really hope sh5 will be more modable than the previous SH sims.

[THE_MASK]

"You can transform the entire content of the game to your liking and it will still work."

He is not saying you can mod the whole game . He is giving an example that DRM wont affect the modding in any part of SH5 .

[Zoomer96]

"All this sounds like a microsoft Combat Submarine Simulator."

Microsoft makes a Combat Submarine Simulator? I haven't heard of that one. I guess it must be on XBOX 360.:cool: Too bad I have a PS3:smug:

[andycaccia]

"You can transform the entire content of the game to your liking and it will still work."

He is not saying you can mod the whole game . He is giving an example that DRM wont affect the modding in any part of SH5 .


And that's good to hear. Very good. If it means that DRM will not prevent modding at all (at least not reasonable modification, which won't alter the program structure)...well it's a huge relief:up:

[Hitman]

DRM might not prevent modding at all, which is good, but anyone who has modded knows that the best part of the time goes in loading & reloading the game to test the changes, as well as the effects of research modifications you do.

Do you have an idea what it might mean for a modder to have to wait EACH TIME until the friggin server checks that he is not a pirate and allows the game to load? Those familiar with ROF, with similar online protection, know that load times that could be very quick are ethernal due to the damned protection system. So I bet this will discourage most modders to work with SH5, unless they have resolved to expend their entire lives on that ...:shifty:

[bigboywooly]

DRM might not prevent modding at all, which is good, but anyone who has modded knows that the best part of the time goes in loading & reloading the game to test the changes, as well as the effects of research modifications you do.

Do you have an idea what it might mean for a modder to have to wait EACH TIME until the friggin server checks that he is not a pirate and allows the game to load? Those familiar with ROF, with similar online protection, know that load times that could be very quick are ethernal due to the damned protection system. So I bet this will discourage most modders to work with SH5, unless they have resolved to expend their entire lives on that ...:shifty:
Yep thats the worry
Working on a lil something for SH3 at the mo and started the game around 20 times last night
And we all know how long GWX load times are :rotfl2:
Not too bad as it goes
But add connecting and checking before I can even test and may only be on there for 5 mins before exiting
:damn:

[JScones]

Ditto Hitman and BBW. :yep:

I easily lost count of how many times SH3Cmdr loaded SH3 during development/testing. <shudders>

And loading SH3/GWX to check the Museum during GWX development/testing. <shudders>

I guess, BBW, the one positive is that if SH5 is more optimised, then "twiddle thumb" time might be the same - just instead of waiting 10 minutes for GWX to load you're waiting 10 minutes for SH5 to authenticate, LOL!

[THE_MASK]

What happens to your modding hard work 2 years down the track when sales of SH5 almost stop and UBI decide to pull the plug on the servers . Goodbye SH5 . Because that what this OPS is about . Its about telling you when you can play and when you cannot .

[Sgtmonkeynads]

Oh, but by that time a patch [crack, made by another company/ hackers] will have been released ( under UBI's name) in form of an expansion pack, which will include a small limited American Campaign and worthless fixes for known bugs ( that are now two years old and remain unfixed), called SH6 : Submarine Missions.:03: The U.S. Missions are based in the smallest,most unknown theater they could come up with, what ever it may be.

[Galanti]

DRM might not prevent modding at all, which is good, but anyone who has modded knows that the best part of the time goes in loading & reloading the game to test the changes, as well as the effects of research modifications you do.

Do you have an idea what it might mean for a modder to have to wait EACH TIME until the friggin server checks that he is not a pirate and allows the game to load? Those familiar with ROF, with similar online protection, know that load times that could be very quick are ethernal due to the damned protection system. So I bet this will discourage most modders to work with SH5, unless they have resolved to expend their entire lives on that ...:shifty:

Great point....

I would also like to point out that ironically, the streaming updates that this new DRM platform offers may also play hell on mods, particularly if we remain wedded to the current model of modding, where actual game content is constantly overwritten. Empire Total War pushed out a large number of small updates in it's first few months, this may be a nightmare for modders to adjust to.

The only way I see it's practical is if the devs implemented a 'moddir' model, where all mods go into a special folder which the game loads after the original files.

[bigboywooly]

Great point....

I would also like to point out that ironically, the streaming updates that this new DRM platform offers may also play hell on mods, particularly if we remain wedded to the current model of modding, where actual game content is constantly overwritten. Empire Total War pushed out a large number of small updates in it's first few months, this may be a nightmare for modders to adjust to.

The only way I see it's practical is if the devs implemented a 'moddir' model, where all mods go into a special folder which the game loads after the original files.

Yes thats a worry too
At least if you DL a patch you can extract and see the changes
If its streamed in will be a nightmare trying to sort what has changed
And 9 times out of 10 you will only find out when your game wont start due to your mods being all messed up
Unless of course you get the option to install or wait

[Mikhayl]

And I wonder how it will work with multi installs on the same PC :hmmm: