Reminder to forum members [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

McBeck

01-28-10, 05:01 AM

Just a few points I want to share with you...

1) Who to blame and who to thank?
The devs are working for Ubi, but they want the best sim for YOU. Some things are out of their control and decided by corporate. Im sure all the people who met the devs during the Subsim meeting 2009 would agree with that.

2) DRM and modding.
The devs have stated this game is more open to mods than any previous SH. The chance of DRM will affect modding is small.

3) Game limited to 43.
The devs have clearly stated that the game will end in 43, but the period will have much more detail. I submit to you that if it takes the same time to complete a campaign in SH3 as in SH5, then I would prefer SH5 because of the better experience.

4) Only VII
Well first of all there are several versions of the VII. Personally I would have loved more types, but its TOO early to conclude what it means, because the VII will have much more detail than any previous SH we have seen.

5) Campaign.
The people attending the Subsim 2009 meeting can comment in this as well. The campaign will be much more dynamic than any previous versions. Your actions in an area will actully influence how the enemy operates - thats new. If you shadow a convoy, theres a chance other subs will join you - thats new.

SH2 - scripted
SH3 - Random
SH4 - Random/dynamic

Just my 2 cents. Let try and stick to the facts rather than speculating too much...lets look at the possibilties rather than the limits.

urfisch

01-28-10, 05:10 AM

Most of what you say is pure speculation. All we just know is, the existing boat interior. But how much detailed this is...no one really knows!

So, no one really knows anything for sure, right? Beside:

- DRM
- Permanent Inet Connection required
- No reselling permitted
- One Boat
- Limited time line
- AI Wolfpacks
- No interaction with other boats and BdU
- Nice graphics so far
- Semi dynamic campaign
- Story mode
- Muted crew members
- Many AI Bugs
- Many Graphic Bugs

:rock:

Letum

01-28-10, 05:22 AM

The devs are working for YOU. The devs work for paychecks like everyone else.

Let try and stick to the facts rather than speculating too much..OK, Lets...

The chance of DRM will affect modding is so small its hard even to see it.Speculation.

The devs have clearly stated that the game will end in 43, but the period will have much more detail.Speculation.

The reason even you have to speculate is the amount secrecy that has been shown by Ubi/the Devs.
who can blame them, given what we do know.

McBeck

01-28-10, 05:24 AM

My points that are not speculation:
1
2 (but I cant reveil the source)
4 (VII subtypes)Was showed in the Subsim meet 2009, can be seen in previews)
5 (From the interview with Neal and the demo during the Subsim meet 2009)

Speculation or opinion:
3 - They stated in the interview that the period till will be more details. I did not state the consequence as fact, but as an opinion.

martes86

01-28-10, 05:38 AM

I totally agree with point 1 (I'm already missing the fellas, and seeing them contemplate real stuff in amazement, glancing at every detail, just like I was...), and right now, the only thing that's ruining the hope I had with SH5 is this damn DRM thing. If only they made it with an "offline" mode like Steam, or made exceptions for titles with low piracy-risk (seriously, how many people might have been interested in pirating a sim?), or even made exceptions in those places where its retail price doesn't make it worth pirating (19.90 euros in Spain, and lower for older titles: 5 euros SH2 and DC, 10 euros SH3...).

I'd prefer very much to have Securom or something alike (even Starforce is better than this!). As it's being told that it will work, I won't be able to play SH5 on sundays at my Granma's because she's like +80 years old, and doesn't have Internet. Or whenever I'm on a vacation, if I don't have Internet wherever I am, I won't be able to play. Or if my ISP has me a full day disconnected (or more, it's not the first time it happens me, along with power outages whenever the electrical system needs some refrigeration) because of technical problems, that's a day I won't be able to play.

Sure, put it in Assasins Creed, and whatever hit-games you can think of, but SH are not games of high pirating-rates, so the system is pointless in this case. Most games nowadays get a crack programmed, but that doesn't mean they're actually used.

Cheers :rock:

zulus

01-28-10, 05:48 AM

UBI doesn't care about ppl who can allow themselves to have internet just in weekends or holidays. What kind of rapist thing is that to tie the game to the internet and take away entertainment to those who can't have such pleassure as 24/7 ic ?
10 points for amorality to UBI. Furthermore they don't respect such thing as EVEN RIGHT that can be treated as an abuse of civil code.

McBeck

01-28-10, 05:55 AM

- DRM
Fact

- Permanent Inet Connection required
Fact

- No reselling permitted
Fact
- One Boat
Incorrect. Theres a german preview that shows that there are more versions of VII available
- Limited time line
Correct - but its too early to make a final call on what the consequence is

- AI Wolfpacks
As stated here, your right, but AI subs may join you of you shadow a convoy. In the Subsim interview.

- No interaction with other boats and BdU
Fact
- Nice graphics so far
Fact
- Semi dynamic campaign
Fact - but still more dynamic than any other SH version.
- Story mode
Not sure what you mean...

- Muted crew members
How do you mean? Example and source please.

- Many AI Bugs
- Many Graphic Bugs
For the preview version you are right.

Lapazeus

01-28-10, 06:37 AM

(seriously, how many people might have been interested in pirating a sim?)

Well, surprisingly many.

For example, Maddox Games is slowly getting out of business because of piracy. When the first IL-game was published every fifth person used a pirated version. In 2004, 60% of Forgotten Battles+Ace Expansion Pack players used a pirated version.

Those figures are quite staggering actually.

DRM is just a result of publishers panicking - they need to do something to fight piracy. It is obviously flawed in many ways, but there is a reason for it.

Carotio

01-28-10, 06:49 AM

1) Who to blame and who to thank?
The devs are working for YOU. They want the best sim for YOU. Some things are out of their control. Im sure all the people who met the devs during the Subsim meeting 2009 would agree with that.

2) DRM and modding.
The devs have stated this game is more open to mods than any previous SH. The chance of DRM will affect modding is so small its hard even to see it.

3) Game limited to 43.
The devs have clearly stated that the game will end in 43, but the period will have much more detail. I submit to you that if it takes the same time to complete a campaign in SH3 as in SH5, then I would prefer SH5 because of the better experience.

4) Only VII
Well first of all there are several subtypes. Personally I would have loved more types, but its TOO early to conclude what it means, because the VII will have much more detail than any previous SH we have seen.

5) Campaign.
The people attending the Subsim 2009 meeting can comment in this as well. The campaign will be much more dynamic than any previous versions. Your actions in an area will actully influence how the enemy operates - thats new. If you shadow a convoy, theres a chance other subs will join you - thats new.

SH2 - scripted
SH3 - Random
SH4 - Random/dynamic

Just my 2 cents. Let try and stick to the facts rather than speculating too much...lets look at the possibilties rather than the limits.

1) I'm not blaming the devs - great guys, that's for sure - but those making the financial decisions of what will make it and what won't, that is "the suits", yeah, I think it's okay to blame those.

2) It may be open to modding, but the DRM issue is still not speaking to the advantage of bringing in the usual modders. But it remains to be fact untill the game is out.

4) See below. Version is not the same as type. The II and IX are clearly missing.

Incorrect. Theres a german preview that shows that there are more versions of VII available

Yeah, but not any versions of type II or type IX. Even though these boats clearly played a siginificant role in the early war. Hence the statement: ONE boat only.

martes86

01-28-10, 07:21 AM

Well, surprisingly many.

For example, Maddox Games is slowly getting out of business because of piracy. When the first IL-game was published every fifth person used a pirated version. In 2004, 60% of Forgotten Battles+Ace Expansion Pack players used a pirated version.

Those figures are quite staggering actually.

DRM is just a result of publishers panicking - they need to do something to fight piracy. It is obviously flawed in many ways, but there is a reason for it.

Well, aircraft sims have much more of an audience, so, many more people are possibly going to pirate it. Besides, such high numbers lead me to the conclusion that those "pirates" aren't hardcore simmers (which usually do indeed support their developers' work), but the so called "casual players", and that's where the piracy index are higher. Hardcore are usually much more informed about the effects of piracy on their favourite titles, so they buy everything they can, whilist casuals just play for random fun, but don't really care what happens next to the title.

About DRM being the result of panic, I totally agree with that.

Cheers :rock:

Uber Gruber

01-28-10, 08:45 AM

DRM wont stop piracy....not one single DRM out there has yet managed to stop piracy. They're just barking up the wrong tree....it's funny to watch them though.:yep:

TDK1044

01-28-10, 09:17 AM

Just a few points I want to share with you...

1) Who to blame and who to thank?
The devs are working for YOU. They want the best sim for YOU. Some things are out of their control. Im sure all the people who met the devs during the Subsim meeting 2009 would agree with that.

2) DRM and modding.
The devs have stated this game is more open to mods than any previous SH. The chance of DRM will affect modding is so small its hard even to see it.

3) Game limited to 43.
The devs have clearly stated that the game will end in 43, but the period will have much more detail. I submit to you that if it takes the same time to complete a campaign in SH3 as in SH5, then I would prefer SH5 because of the better experience.

4) Only VII
Well first of all there are several subtypes. Personally I would have loved more types, but its TOO early to conclude what it means, because the VII will have much more detail than any previous SH we have seen.

5) Campaign.
The people attending the Subsim 2009 meeting can comment in this as well. The campaign will be much more dynamic than any previous versions. Your actions in an area will actully influence how the enemy operates - thats new. If you shadow a convoy, theres a chance other subs will join you - thats new.

SH2 - scripted
SH3 - Random
SH4 - Random/dynamic

Just my 2 cents. Let try and stick to the facts rather than speculating too much...lets look at the possibilties rather than the limits.

The Devs work for Ubisoft. They are very talented guys with a strong work ethic and a desire to do the right thing, but they work for Ubisoft.

Secondly, I am not remotely interested in what happened at the subsim 2009 meeting. It's of no relevance. I am interested in the fact that the Devs stated that the game would be more moddable than ever, knowing that it would be an online DRM game.

As for this statement....

'The chance of DRM will affect modding is so small its hard even to see it'.

I'd love to hear a technical explanation to justify how you intend to mod an online DRM game.

I believe that we may be witnessing the end of the Silent Hunter franchise......at least as we know it (Jim) :)

urfisch

01-28-10, 09:25 AM

Muted crew...source: german gamestar tv test, 23.1.2010.

Not sure what you mean...

How do you mean? Example and source please.

BulSoldier

01-28-10, 09:29 AM

Still i dont understand what muted crew means. Are they not talking or what.Since the devs told us everyone (or seniors atleast) will have some kind of story or background.Is it coming in form of a text ?
So it comes to either this is misinformation or the devs pretty much spoke lies to us.

tater

01-28-10, 09:34 AM

Assuming the Il-2 numbers are correct (60% stolen), what does that tell us?

What % of those pirates would have paid anything at all instead of stealing it?

That's really the number that matters. Is there a demographic of criminals? Are people more likely to steal in some countries than others, etc?

My personal opinion is that of those 60% almost none would have paid for the game under any circumstances, so their thievery doesn't actually reduce revenues. ONly a sale lost that would actually have happened counts, in other words.

I'm 100% against stealing.

I'd be fine with jailing "pirates," frankly. Real jail.

That said, it is clear that protection schemes don't actually work. The pragmatic solution might be another business model. One thought is lower prices. A % of the thieves won't pay $50 for anything, but might pay $20 for many things. Piracy might cease to be common if the products are $10—why steal something cheap to buy?

If they want online, cheap and subscriptive with FREQUENT patches, updates, add-ons.

McBeck

01-28-10, 10:01 AM

The Devs work for Ubisoft. They are very talented guys with a strong work ethic and a desire to do the right thing, but they work for Ubisoft.

Secondly, I am not remotely interested in what happened at the subsim 2009 meeting. It's of no relevance. I am interested in the fact that the Devs stated that the game would be more moddable than ever, knowing that it would be an online DRM game.

As for this statement....

'The chance of DRM will affect modding is so small its hard even to see it'.

I'd love to hear a technical explanation to justify how you intend to mod an online DRM game.

I believe that we may be witnessing the end of the Silent Hunter franchise......at least as we know it (Jim) :)
1) Yes the devs are employed by Ubi, but their heart is with the game. That was the itend of my statement.
2) What happended at the meeting has great relevanse to understand and believe in 1)
Also, as of now, the demostration at the meeting, is the only one that has showed the new dynamics of the campaign.

As far as DRM goes. You will still have the local installation. Why would DRM keep track of all game files and not only the ones related to its base execution?
Its used to keep track the installation, so I think it will only keep track of key files that are needed for the game to run. Thats just my thought. It makes no sense to keep track of everything.

Steeltrap

01-28-10, 10:08 AM

It makes no sense to keep track of everything.

And I suppose it makes perfect sense to force me to remain connected to the internet while I play a single player game, despite having demonstrated my copy is legal?

Not wanting to have a go at you, but suggesting that DRM won't impede modding because "that wouldn't make sense" when the whole DRM as applied in this case makes no sense, well....that BELIEF makes no sense.....

McBeck

01-28-10, 10:14 AM

And I suppose it makes perfect sense to force me to remain connected to the internet while I play a single player game, despite having demonstrated my copy is legal?

Not wanting to have a go at you, but suggesting that DRM won't impede modding because "that wouldn't make sense" when the whole DRM as applied in this case makes no sense, well....that BELIEF makes no sense.....
Im suggesting that DRM is setup to keep track of core files thats need to run the game. I suggest theres no obvious NEED to keep track of everything.
Im not suggesing that DRM is a good choice. I personally think its a very bad choice.
Take a look at Steam games. Steam is DRM, but you can still mod.

maerean_m

01-28-10, 03:09 PM

AVGWarhawk

01-28-10, 03:31 PM

To answer you technical question: the entire game is created with mod-ing in mind and the game comes with much more tools to create all sorts of content

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1249904#post1249904

Regards,
M.

:yeah:

In a word...sweet!

Fact:

If it were not for Mcbeck I would still be smoking. We live world apart. Never met. Suggested a book on quiting. Book read. Success.

See...it's all good. :D When is the game due out?

martes86

01-28-10, 05:30 PM

Ok... hope's high again... :yeah::D

karamazovnew

01-28-10, 05:36 PM

To answer you technical question: the entire game is created with mod-ing in mind and the game comes with much more tools to create all sorts of content

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1249904#post1249904

Regards,
M.

The second we're allowed to play it offline, I'll take a taxi to the closest game store. :up:

stabiz

01-28-10, 05:38 PM

Yeah, me too. I do have a stable and fast internet connection, but its the principle. (And the fact that I bet the one time my internet goes dead I would be at sea in SH5)

Task Force

01-28-10, 05:48 PM

I do have a pretty stable connection... But what about there servers... what if I want to play the game, but they have something else in mind... well then I am stuck with a disc... and 5+ gigs of BS on my hard drive till they surface again...

Ubi makes no sence...

JU_88

01-28-10, 05:57 PM

bigboywooly

01-28-10, 06:07 PM

Right then, can some one please point me to a link that proves that SH5
(not Ubi games in general but specifically SH5) will have DRM that pauses the game if you lose your internet connection?

If not, then it is just yet more spectulation & assumptions. :doh:

Anything can happen in the next 5 weeks

From Q and A on this forum

http://forums-de.ubi.com/eve/forums/...161085487/p/14 (http://forums-de.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3431013487/m/1161085487/p/14)

Quote:
Silent Hunter 5 includes our new online services: You can install your game on as many computers, your savegames are stored online and you can retrieve it from anywhere and will play on any DVD / CD longer needed in the drive.
To ensure this, the game must be linked with the Ubi.com, and the PC must be connected during the entire season with the Internet.

bigboywooly

01-28-10, 06:13 PM

From Q and A on this forum

http://forums-de.ubi.com/eve/forums/...161085487/p/14 (http://forums-de.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3431013487/m/1161085487/p/14)

Silent Hunter 5 includes our new online services: You can install your game on as many computers, your savegames are stored online and you can retrieve it from anywhere and will play on any DVD / CD longer needed in the drive.
To ensure this, the game must be linked with the Ubi.com, and the PC must be connected during the entire season with the Internet.And from Elanaiba

While I can't comment on the DRM solution, I know it wont affect the modability.Which basically says its in if you dont trust the first link

JU_88

01-28-10, 06:20 PM

bigboywooly

01-28-10, 06:31 PM

Thanks BBW.
" The computer must be conected for the entire 'season' " ? like winter, spring? or do they mean 'session'
either way I still dont see any hard evidence of the game pausing or crapping out if a connection is lost.
Though i appreiciate that is how it sounds.

Im still buy it regardless, for me personally- it will be no worse that my connection flaking out when I am playing C&C or something online.

lol keep up mate

http://support.uk.ubi.com/online-services-platform/

What will happen if I lose my Internet connection when I play the game?
If you lose your Internet connection the game will pause while it tries to reconnect. If the Internet Connection is unable to resume you can continue the game from where you left off or from the last saved game.

kiwi_2005

01-28-10, 06:38 PM

lol keep up mate

http://support.uk.ubi.com/online-services-platform/

What will happen if I lose my Internet connection when I play the game?
If you lose your Internet connection the game will pause while it tries to reconnect. If the Internet Connection is unable to resume you can continue the game from where you left off or from the last saved game.

Dont panic! How are you going to lose your connection if you do go find a better ISP provider. Im on one of NZ crappiest internet ISP available i play online games like World of Warcraft, Battlefield 2 and Steams Teamfortress this requires continuous internet connection, Never lose it apart from the odd power failure during a storm which is like once in a blue moon. Why would I lose connection when playing SH5 then. It only needs connection to start the game. And im sure their be an offline mode available - if not im certain we will not have disconnections with ubisoft/steam network?

Webster

01-28-10, 06:40 PM

Dont panic! How are you going to lose your connection if you do go find a better ISP provider. Im on one of NZ crappiest internet ISP available i play online games like World of Warcraft, Battlefield 2 and Steams Teamfortress this requires continuous internet connection, Never lose it apart from the odd power cut. Why would I lose connection when playing SH5 then. Its only needs connection to start the game. And im sure their be an offline mode available.

i believe the problem is servers and not ISP

also according to UBI there is no offline, you have to be online or you cant play it

kiwi_2005

01-28-10, 06:50 PM

Webster

01-28-10, 07:25 PM

servers are only going to cause issues if theres an overload use, I can't see 10 million people connecting to SH5, more like in the thousands or the way some are scared of this online connection then might end up as couple of hundred! :O:

but ....

this DRM is for ALL of their 2010 games and they arent microsoft so i dont expect top of the line server banks of the very latest equipt with the capacity to handle ALL the gamers for their games.

can you honestly not see this overwhelming the system and having slow downs, crashes, and server rationing going on.

McBeck

01-29-10, 03:07 AM

The devs have now commented on 2)
DRM will not affect modding directly

onelifecrisis

01-29-10, 04:29 AM

The devs work for paychecks like everyone else.

No. Not everyone else works for a paycheck. Some people really do like what they do. And some people want to make things that are good (as opposed to "good enough"). Such people do exist. Whether or not any of them can be found in Ubisoft is another matter. ;)

McBeck

01-29-10, 04:50 AM

No. Not everyone else works for a paycheck. Some people really do like what they do. And some people want to make things that are good (as opposed to "good enough"). Such people do exist. Whether or not any of them can be found in Ubisoft is another matter. ;)I think the dev team are one example of that...

martes86

01-29-10, 05:38 AM

Working for a paycheck doesn't exclude loving your work. :DL

urfisch

01-29-10, 06:40 AM

i guess there will some kind of workaround for this connection thing, soon after the release...

:arrgh!:

THE_MASK

01-29-10, 06:48 AM

Connect to server .
Start playing game .
My son disconnects the bloody internet for some ludicrous reason again .
The game pauses while it reconnects .
I play the game again .
I have sunk a battleship .
I save the game .
I get a message saying i have unlocked the golden torpedoes .
I have gained 100 Ubi super dooper points to download the golden stopwach .
I go to log in , in 12 months time .
I have to pay to suscribe to the server .
Stick that .