Reminder to forum members

McBeck · 01-28-10, 05:01 AM

Just a few points I want to share with you...

1) Who to blame and who to thank?
The devs are working for Ubi, but they want the best sim for YOU. Some things are out of their control and decided by corporate. Im sure all the people who met the devs during the Subsim meeting 2009 would agree with that.

2) DRM and modding.
The devs have stated this game is more open to mods than any previous SH. The chance of DRM will affect modding is small.

3) Game limited to 43.
The devs have clearly stated that the game will end in 43, but the period will have much more detail. I submit to you that if it takes the same time to complete a campaign in SH3 as in SH5, then I would prefer SH5 because of the better experience.

4) Only VII
Well first of all there are several versions of the VII. Personally I would have loved more types, but its TOO early to conclude what it means, because the VII will have much more detail than any previous SH we have seen.

5) Campaign.
The people attending the Subsim 2009 meeting can comment in this as well. The campaign will be much more dynamic than any previous versions. Your actions in an area will actully influence how the enemy operates - thats new. If you shadow a convoy, theres a chance other subs will join you - thats new.

SH2 - scripted
SH3 - Random
SH4 - Random/dynamic

Just my 2 cents. Let try and stick to the facts rather than speculating too much...lets look at the possibilties rather than the limits.

urfisch · 01-28-10, 05:10 AM

Most of what you say is pure speculation. All we just know is, the existing boat interior. But how much detailed this is...no one really knows!

So, no one really knows anything for sure, right? Beside:

- DRM
- Permanent Inet Connection required
- No reselling permitted
- One Boat
- Limited time line
- AI Wolfpacks
- No interaction with other boats and BdU
- Nice graphics so far
- Semi dynamic campaign
- Story mode
- Muted crew members
- Many AI Bugs
- Many Graphic Bugs

Letum · 01-28-10, 05:22 AM

Quote:

The devs are working for YOU.

The devs work for paychecks like everyone else.

Quote:

Let try and stick to the facts rather than speculating too much..

OK, Lets...

Quote:

The chance of DRM will affect modding is so small its hard even to see it.

Speculation.

Quote:

The devs have clearly stated that the game will end in 43, but the period will have much more detail.

Speculation.

The reason even you have to speculate is the amount secrecy that has been shown by Ubi/the Devs.
who can blame them, given what we do know.

McBeck · 01-28-10, 05:24 AM

My points that are not speculation:
1
2 (but I cant reveil the source)
4 (VII subtypes)Was showed in the Subsim meet 2009, can be seen in previews)
5 (From the interview with Neal and the demo during the Subsim meet 2009)

Speculation or opinion:
3 - They stated in the interview that the period till will be more details. I did not state the consequence as fact, but as an opinion.

martes86 · 01-28-10, 05:38 AM

I totally agree with point 1 (I'm already missing the fellas, and seeing them contemplate real stuff in amazement, glancing at every detail, just like I was...), and right now, the only thing that's ruining the hope I had with SH5 is this damn DRM thing. If only they made it with an "offline" mode like Steam, or made exceptions for titles with low piracy-risk (seriously, how many people might have been interested in pirating a sim?), or even made exceptions in those places where its retail price doesn't make it worth pirating (19.90 euros in Spain, and lower for older titles: 5 euros SH2 and DC, 10 euros SH3...).

I'd prefer very much to have Securom or something alike (even Starforce is better than this!). As it's being told that it will work, I won't be able to play SH5 on sundays at my Granma's because she's like +80 years old, and doesn't have Internet. Or whenever I'm on a vacation, if I don't have Internet wherever I am, I won't be able to play. Or if my ISP has me a full day disconnected (or more, it's not the first time it happens me, along with power outages whenever the electrical system needs some refrigeration) because of technical problems, that's a day I won't be able to play.

Sure, put it in Assasins Creed, and whatever hit-games you can think of, but SH are not games of high pirating-rates, so the system is pointless in this case. Most games nowadays get a crack programmed, but that doesn't mean they're actually used.

Cheers

01-28-10, 05:48 AM

UBI doesn't care about ppl who can allow themselves to have internet just in weekends or holidays. What kind of rapist thing is that to tie the game to the internet and take away entertainment to those who can't have such pleassure as 24/7 ic ?
10 points for amorality to UBI. Furthermore they don't respect such thing as EVEN RIGHT that can be treated as an abuse of civil code.

McBeck · 01-28-10, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urfisch

- DRM

Fact

Quote:

- Permanent Inet Connection required

Fact

Quote:

- No reselling permitted

Fact

Quote:

- One Boat

Incorrect. Theres a german preview that shows that there are more versions of VII available

Quote:

- Limited time line

Correct - but its too early to make a final call on what the consequence is

Quote:

- AI Wolfpacks

As stated here, your right, but AI subs may join you of you shadow a convoy. In the Subsim interview.

Quote:

- No interaction with other boats and BdU

Fact

Quote:

- Nice graphics so far

Fact

Quote:

- Semi dynamic campaign

Fact - but still more dynamic than any other SH version.

Quote:

- Story mode

Not sure what you mean...

Quote:

- Muted crew members

How do you mean? Example and source please.

Quote:

- Many AI Bugs
- Many Graphic Bugs

For the preview version you are right.

Lapazeus · 01-28-10, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martes86

(seriously, how many people might have been interested in pirating a sim?)

Well, surprisingly many.

For example, Maddox Games is slowly getting out of business because of piracy. When the first IL-game was published every fifth person used a pirated version. In 2004, 60% of Forgotten Battles+Ace Expansion Pack players used a pirated version.

Those figures are quite staggering actually.

DRM is just a result of publishers panicking - they need to do something to fight piracy. It is obviously flawed in many ways, but there is a reason for it.

Carotio · 01-28-10, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBeck

1) Who to blame and who to thank?
The devs are working for YOU. They want the best sim for YOU. Some things are out of their control. Im sure all the people who met the devs during the Subsim meeting 2009 would agree with that.

2) DRM and modding.
The devs have stated this game is more open to mods than any previous SH. The chance of DRM will affect modding is so small its hard even to see it.

3) Game limited to 43.
The devs have clearly stated that the game will end in 43, but the period will have much more detail. I submit to you that if it takes the same time to complete a campaign in SH3 as in SH5, then I would prefer SH5 because of the better experience.

4) Only VII
Well first of all there are several subtypes. Personally I would have loved more types, but its TOO early to conclude what it means, because the VII will have much more detail than any previous SH we have seen.

5) Campaign.
The people attending the Subsim 2009 meeting can comment in this as well. The campaign will be much more dynamic than any previous versions. Your actions in an area will actully influence how the enemy operates - thats new. If you shadow a convoy, theres a chance other subs will join you - thats new.

SH2 - scripted
SH3 - Random
SH4 - Random/dynamic

Just my 2 cents. Let try and stick to the facts rather than speculating too much...lets look at the possibilties rather than the limits.

1) I'm not blaming the devs - great guys, that's for sure - but those making the financial decisions of what will make it and what won't, that is "the suits", yeah, I think it's okay to blame those.

2) It may be open to modding, but the DRM issue is still not speaking to the advantage of bringing in the usual modders. But it remains to be fact untill the game is out.

4) See below. Version is not the same as type. The II and IX are clearly missing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBeck

Incorrect. Theres a german preview that shows that there are more versions of VII available

Yeah, but not any versions of type II or type IX. Even though these boats clearly played a siginificant role in the early war. Hence the statement: ONE boat only.

martes86 · 01-28-10, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lapazeus

Well, surprisingly many.

For example, Maddox Games is slowly getting out of business because of piracy. When the first IL-game was published every fifth person used a pirated version. In 2004, 60% of Forgotten Battles+Ace Expansion Pack players used a pirated version.

Those figures are quite staggering actually.

DRM is just a result of publishers panicking - they need to do something to fight piracy. It is obviously flawed in many ways, but there is a reason for it.

Well, aircraft sims have much more of an audience, so, many more people are possibly going to pirate it. Besides, such high numbers lead me to the conclusion that those "pirates" aren't hardcore simmers (which usually do indeed support their developers' work), but the so called "casual players", and that's where the piracy index are higher. Hardcore are usually much more informed about the effects of piracy on their favourite titles, so they buy everything they can, whilist casuals just play for random fun, but don't really care what happens next to the title.

About DRM being the result of panic, I totally agree with that.

Cheers

01-28-10, 08:45 AM

DRM wont stop piracy....not one single DRM out there has yet managed to stop piracy. They're just barking up the wrong tree....it's funny to watch them though.

TDK1044 · 01-28-10, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBeck

Just a few points I want to share with you...

1) Who to blame and who to thank?
The devs are working for YOU. They want the best sim for YOU. Some things are out of their control. Im sure all the people who met the devs during the Subsim meeting 2009 would agree with that.

2) DRM and modding.
The devs have stated this game is more open to mods than any previous SH. The chance of DRM will affect modding is so small its hard even to see it.

3) Game limited to 43.
The devs have clearly stated that the game will end in 43, but the period will have much more detail. I submit to you that if it takes the same time to complete a campaign in SH3 as in SH5, then I would prefer SH5 because of the better experience.

4) Only VII
Well first of all there are several subtypes. Personally I would have loved more types, but its TOO early to conclude what it means, because the VII will have much more detail than any previous SH we have seen.

5) Campaign.
The people attending the Subsim 2009 meeting can comment in this as well. The campaign will be much more dynamic than any previous versions. Your actions in an area will actully influence how the enemy operates - thats new. If you shadow a convoy, theres a chance other subs will join you - thats new.

SH2 - scripted
SH3 - Random
SH4 - Random/dynamic

Just my 2 cents. Let try and stick to the facts rather than speculating too much...lets look at the possibilties rather than the limits.

The Devs work for Ubisoft. They are very talented guys with a strong work ethic and a desire to do the right thing, but they work for Ubisoft.

Secondly, I am not remotely interested in what happened at the subsim 2009 meeting. It's of no relevance. I am interested in the fact that the Devs stated that the game would be more moddable than ever, knowing that it would be an online DRM game.

As for this statement....

'The chance of DRM will affect modding is so small its hard even to see it'.

I'd love to hear a technical explanation to justify how you intend to mod an online DRM game.

I believe that we may be witnessing the end of the Silent Hunter franchise......at least as we know it (Jim)

urfisch · 01-28-10, 09:25 AM

Muted crew...source: german gamestar tv test, 23.1.2010.

Quote:

Originally Posted by McBeck

Not sure what you mean...

How do you mean? Example and source please.

BulSoldier · 01-28-10, 09:29 AM

Still i dont understand what muted crew means. Are they not talking or what.Since the devs told us everyone (or seniors atleast) will have some kind of story or background.Is it coming in form of a text ?
So it comes to either this is misinformation or the devs pretty much spoke lies to us.

tater · 01-28-10, 09:34 AM

Assuming the Il-2 numbers are correct (60% stolen), what does that tell us?

What % of those pirates would have paid anything at all instead of stealing it?

That's really the number that matters. Is there a demographic of criminals? Are people more likely to steal in some countries than others, etc?

My personal opinion is that of those 60% almost none would have paid for the game under any circumstances, so their thievery doesn't actually reduce revenues. ONly a sale lost that would actually have happened counts, in other words.

I'm 100% against stealing.

I'd be fine with jailing "pirates," frankly. Real jail.

That said, it is clear that protection schemes don't actually work. The pragmatic solution might be another business model. One thought is lower prices. A % of the thieves won't pay $50 for anything, but might pay $20 for many things. Piracy might cease to be common if the products are $10—why steal something cheap to buy?

If they want online, cheap and subscriptive with FREQUENT patches, updates, add-ons.

01-28-10, 05:01 AM	#1
McBeck Admiral Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,027 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Reminder to forum members Just a few points I want to share with you... 1) Who to blame and who to thank? The devs are working for Ubi, but they want the best sim for YOU. Some things are out of their control and decided by corporate. Im sure all the people who met the devs during the Subsim meeting 2009 would agree with that. 2) DRM and modding. The devs have stated this game is more open to mods than any previous SH. The chance of DRM will affect modding is small. 3) Game limited to 43. The devs have clearly stated that the game will end in 43, but the period will have much more detail. I submit to you that if it takes the same time to complete a campaign in SH3 as in SH5, then I would prefer SH5 because of the better experience. 4) Only VII Well first of all there are several versions of the VII. Personally I would have loved more types, but its TOO early to conclude what it means, because the VII will have much more detail than any previous SH we have seen. 5) Campaign. The people attending the Subsim 2009 meeting can comment in this as well. The campaign will be much more dynamic than any previous versions. Your actions in an area will actully influence how the enemy operates - thats new. If you shadow a convoy, theres a chance other subs will join you - thats new. SH2 - scripted SH3 - Random SH4 - Random/dynamic Just my 2 cents. Let try and stick to the facts rather than speculating too much...lets look at the possibilties rather than the limits. __________________ "I like subcommanders...they dont have time for bull**!" Proud member of the Subsim army of zombies Becks website Last edited by McBeck; 01-28-10 at 10:05 AM. Reason: Edited a few things that was not clearly stated

01-28-10, 05:10 AM	#2
urfisch Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Deep down in Germany Posts: 1,969 Downloads: 42 Uploads: 0	Most of what you say is pure speculation. All we just know is, the existing boat interior. But how much detailed this is...no one really knows! So, no one really knows anything for sure, right? Beside: - DRM - Permanent Inet Connection required - No reselling permitted - One Boat - Limited time line - AI Wolfpacks - No interaction with other boats and BdU - Nice graphics so far - Semi dynamic campaign - Story mode - Muted crew members - Many AI Bugs - Many Graphic Bugs __________________

01-28-10, 05:24 AM	#4
McBeck Admiral Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 2,027 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	My points that are not speculation: 1 2 (but I cant reveil the source) 4 (VII subtypes)Was showed in the Subsim meet 2009, can be seen in previews) 5 (From the interview with Neal and the demo during the Subsim meet 2009) Speculation or opinion: 3 - They stated in the interview that the period till will be more details. I did not state the consequence as fact, but as an opinion. __________________ "I like subcommanders...they dont have time for bull**!" Proud member of the Subsim army of zombies Becks website

01-28-10, 05:48 AM	#6
zulus Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	UBI doesn't care about ppl who can allow themselves to have internet just in weekends or holidays. What kind of rapist thing is that to tie the game to the internet and take away entertainment to those who can't have such pleassure as 24/7 ic ? 10 points for amorality to UBI. Furthermore they don't respect such thing as EVEN RIGHT that can be treated as an abuse of civil code. Last edited by zulus; 01-28-10 at 06:06 AM.

01-28-10, 09:29 AM	#14
BulSoldier Samurai Navy Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Burgas/Bulgaria Posts: 550 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	Still i dont understand what muted crew means. Are they not talking or what.Since the devs told us everyone (or seniors atleast) will have some kind of story or background.Is it coming in form of a text ? So it comes to either this is misinformation or the devs pretty much spoke lies to us. __________________ By the hour !

01-28-10, 05:38 AM	#5
martes86 Grey Wolf Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: The Colourful Seville - Spain Posts: 971 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	I totally agree with point 1 (I'm already missing the fellas, and seeing them contemplate real stuff in amazement, glancing at every detail, just like I was...), and right now, the only thing that's ruining the hope I had with SH5 is this damn DRM thing. If only they made it with an "offline" mode like Steam, or made exceptions for titles with low piracy-risk (seriously, how many people might have been interested in pirating a sim?), or even made exceptions in those places where its retail price doesn't make it worth pirating (19.90 euros in Spain, and lower for older titles: 5 euros SH2 and DC, 10 euros SH3...). I'd prefer very much to have Securom or something alike (even Starforce is better than this!). As it's being told that it will work, I won't be able to play SH5 on sundays at my Granma's because she's like +80 years old, and doesn't have Internet. Or whenever I'm on a vacation, if I don't have Internet wherever I am, I won't be able to play. Or if my ISP has me a full day disconnected (or more, it's not the first time it happens me, along with power outages whenever the electrical system needs some refrigeration) because of technical problems, that's a day I won't be able to play. Sure, put it in Assasins Creed, and whatever hit-games you can think of, but SH are not games of high pirating-rates, so the system is pointless in this case. Most games nowadays get a crack programmed, but that doesn't mean they're actually used. Cheers

01-28-10, 08:45 AM	#11
Uber Gruber Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	DRM wont stop piracy....not one single DRM out there has yet managed to stop piracy. They're just barking up the wrong tree....it's funny to watch them though.

01-28-10, 09:34 AM	#15
tater Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: New Mexico, USA Posts: 9,023 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 2	Assuming the Il-2 numbers are correct (60% stolen), what does that tell us? What % of those pirates would have paid anything at all instead of stealing it? That's really the number that matters. Is there a demographic of criminals? Are people more likely to steal in some countries than others, etc? My personal opinion is that of those 60% almost none would have paid for the game under any circumstances, so their thievery doesn't actually reduce revenues. ONly a sale lost that would actually have happened counts, in other words. I'm 100% against stealing. I'd be fine with jailing "pirates," frankly. Real jail. That said, it is clear that protection schemes don't actually work. The pragmatic solution might be another business model. One thought is lower prices. A % of the thieves won't pay $50 for anything, but might pay $20 for many things. Piracy might cease to be common if the products are $10—why steal something cheap to buy? If they want online, cheap and subscriptive with FREQUENT patches, updates, add-ons.