[QUE] Requests for wide-rez interface [Archive]

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karamazovnew

01-27-10, 03:05 PM

I've been wondering...
How many people would like a wide-rez interface mod? SH5 might go bust (not proven until release) so we might end up playing SH3 for a long time to come. A wide-rez interface has been requested many times, but the problem is complex. I'd like to tackle this, but only if I see a pattern forming of your wants and needs. The amount of work involved is simply immense and it would take months, be finished sometime during the next winter. The last thing I'd like is to see it downloaded 100 times :haha:. At least this thread would point out the necessity of such a mod. We might find in the end that it's pointless and stop caring about it.

Since I can't start a poll with so many features, please answer the following questions in the same template. Counting them would be easier if you don't make jokes about soup :haha:.

Q1: What Interface do you use in SH3?
A: ACM gui

Q2: What aspect ratio would you like to use (or type the resolution)
A: 1920x1200 or 16:10

Q3: How many screens would you like redone (please keep in mind that text will still be stretched):
A: Main bars and periscope screens should be enough for me...

Q4: Other comments?
A: Don't expect this to be done fast... It might not even be feasable unless you all want to use the same interface mod. It can only be done for a specific aspect ratio. Most probably 16:10 since most monitors now use this resolution. In that case, 16:9 screens would see a 0.9 vertical deformation. (current deformation is 0.75). Plus, many items simply can't be changed (such as the periscope bearing text). Also, such an enterprise would require a rebuild from scratch of the SH interface. This is by far NOT easy.

Hitman

01-27-10, 03:27 PM

I would certainly like that! So far I have kept a 4:3 monitor which was difficult to find (20 inches) but it works perfectly with SH3, IL2 and older games that require 4:3

I have a better, 16:9 TV/monitor, but I'm keeping it for TV use for now. It allows me to push a button and adapt it to 4:3, but while modding it gets unconfortable to do it repeatedly.

Kara, if you are looking into this we could discuss some ideas I had for simplifying it a lot (They arised duirng my work for my new interface). Basically, I had thought of moving most of the interface part to the general layout menu (The main menu bar), so that we can avoid having to do it several times for all screens, and such.

For example, leave in both scopes and UZO station just the eyeport and the torpedo lights and fire knob, as well as the chrono start button (NO need to leave the chrono itself there, as the JonZ draggable one can be used in the menu bar). Eliminate the useless notepad, and move the TDC to the menu bar, as slide out or pop-up via button.

The approach should be modular, i.e.

-First adapt the periscopes/uzo screens and menu bar
-Then go for other stations in later releases (if ever)

The main problem I see is the game map. I don't think it will be possible to have the game rescale the lines you draw there. But the other stations could be probably arranged.

How are you intending to rework the needles in the TDC, etc? I can understand how the rounded dials can be reworked (Using vertically stretched graphics), but the needles is a different matter, because they actually rotate!

Also, there are different wide-screen rations ... not just 16:9 :hmmm:

makman94

01-27-10, 04:14 PM

@Kara ...you are a 'hero' if you start this !!

but ,just my opinion here guys, i really like the way that sh3 looks on my wide monitor ! not joking....really like it ! once i turned it to 4:3 just to see it (use so long time the wide screen stretched images) ....then i definetely can say that i like more the stretched images !
only....my opinion guys.....don't 'shoot' !!!

karamazovnew

01-27-10, 05:18 PM

Forgot about the needles. That rules out the possibility of a circular AOBF. The problem also extends to each dial background. Even if you make the dial image "square", the invisible "command" dial needs to be bigger than the dial. And dials need to have heigth=length so in effect they'll invisibly extend vertically. You need a lot of space between the dials or you'll end up clicking more than one at a time.

True, the entire TDC can be moved to OLC's "Autoupdate page". Thus, all the scope screens can remain completely blank. The Fire and Tubes buttons have to remain in the Periscope Page (actually, I think they can be moved in SH3 to the Layout page, in SH4 it wasn't possible and the game would crash).
Text is clearly out of the question. The Recognition manual is mostly hard-coded but doesn't matter since all images can be scaled.

The map isn't a problem, as the mouse will always move a bit faster horizontally. I don't see any need to rescale it. We only need to remake all of the images.
Text is a problem and it will always be squashed.

But the needles..... there's a deal breaker. Or not... If the needles are simple lines, I could make an overlay with a hole in the middle so the "Extra" length will disappear under it. It would look ugly tho... and no AOBF.

codmander

01-27-10, 07:34 PM

wide screen is awesome even with the out of round scope still tho would be nice to have it normal

Reece

01-27-10, 09:42 PM

Yes the main 2 problems since we have the HiRes mod is the widescreen problem and the disappearing mouse!:yep:
I can't understand why Rubini's mod only works with nvidia cards, seems funny that setting a value in cameras.dat would depend on the card, I have played around with this file for some time with no joy.:hmmm:

onelifecrisis

01-28-10, 12:45 AM

@Reece
The 3D view has already been fixed for widescreen.

@Kara
How do you plan to make the dials on the GUI round instead of oval? As Hitman said, the needles can't be stretched because they rotate.

@Hitman
There is a file that controls the map... and (stretching my memory here) I think it allowed the specification of different horizontal/vertical scaling values. I've not got SH3 installed so I can't check whether it works, but it's worth a try.

Reece

01-28-10, 12:51 AM

I wish that were true OLC, as far as I know that is only for nvidia cards (Rubini's mod), please say I'm wrong!!:yep: Then point me to a download!:up:
Fingers crossed!:03:

onelifecrisis

01-28-10, 01:19 AM

@Reece
I didn't realise it was an nvidia-only fix. I thought he fixed it by changing the viewport settings in cameras.dat? Doesn't that work on ATI cards? It used to work on mine.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147044

onelifecrisis

01-28-10, 01:24 AM

Hmm, sorry, I skim-read the last pages of his thread just now and I see nobody got it working on ATI. Weird. That's another hurdle for Kara, then.

Reece

01-28-10, 02:55 AM

Yes, you have to wonder why altering the game settings would effect specific video cards!:hmmm:

Corsair

01-28-10, 05:21 AM

@ Hitman

Regarding IL2, if you use IL2 Stab, it will allow you to play in widescreen resolutions (I fly 1680 x 1050)...
For SH3 I use the same resolution.

karamazovnew

01-28-10, 05:33 AM

@Kara
How do you plan to make the dials on the GUI round instead of oval? As Hitman said, the needles can't be stretched because they rotate.

No idea... absolutely none :cry: And by "needle" I mean any round rotating object.

Ok then, let's talk about functionality... All the items in the interface are stretched but with the wide-rez fix, the 3d view through the periscope is proportioned correctly. So the main problem for someone trying to play like that is the periscope backgrounds and the periscope markings right? That should be simple to fix for any aspect ratio just by scaling the respective images on the horizontal while leaving the canvas size as it is, right?

Hitman

01-28-10, 09:41 AM

@ Hitman

Regarding IL2, if you use IL2 Stab, it will allow you to play in widescreen resolutions (I fly 1680 x 1050)...
For SH3 I use the same resolution.

Oh, many thanks!! I'll look into it.

So the main problem for someone trying to play like that is the periscope backgrounds and the periscope markings right? That should be simple to fix for any aspect ratio just by scaling the respective images on the horizontal while leaving the canvas size as it is, right? Yes, that is what I said. Anything that doesn't actually move has no problems at all. The problem are the needles inside dials, which rotate and will look larger when positioned horizontally, than when vertically.

the 3d view through the periscope is proportioned correctlyThe solution to the problem might actually be in that :)

We know that anything 2D will not get rescaled, and that dials will therefore look horrible when they rotate ... but we know positively that 3D WILL rescale correctly. So ... the logical solution is to actually do all the needed stuff in 3D, and create a functionality that allows using the interface like that.

For example: Clicking periscope camera takes you not to the 2D station, but instead to the seat in the periscope housing. You sit there in 3D and have at arm's reach the 3D TDC, which works and is clickable, and which we can do with a much better resolution and reposition in a more comfortable place. Then, to look inside the periscope we would click on the eyepiece and see simply a flat black screen with the Papenberg at the left (That's the bubble and indicator for periscope heigth) and the lights and fire button on the right. Nothing else, no notepad crap and such, which is anyway not needed (And in any case could be rescaled). When you have made your estimations you right-click and are back in your saddle, can rotate the camera with a wrist movement of your mouse, adn be ready to input all in the 3D TDC with some mouse clicks. Once the TDC is updated, you click on the "Follow" button to link it to the optics, and can click into teh ocular to see again in 2D.

We can resize to the necessary proportions almost anything that is in the tools bar, and add/remove items.

The solution to this problem, is to go the SH5 way ---> A 3D fully interactive Uboat :up: and eliminate as much 2D stuff as possible.

Gunnodayak

01-28-10, 11:04 AM

That would be the greatest thing possible, except for the unlikely resuming GWX4 project. I wish to be wrong in my thoughts, but I have a strong feeling that SH 5 will be almost a disaster from the simulation point of view and a hit from the arcade type gaming perspective, so I believe that sticking to SH III would be the only viable option. So, the modders like karamazovnew and others are the only ones who can save the day, not the developers.

Corsair

01-29-10, 03:29 AM

I suppose it is a problem with the new 16/9 widescreen standards. As said before, I play 1680 x 1050 on a 22" 16/10 monitor. Periscope and instruments ( Hitman scope and displays for NYGM - for Living SH3 V5 the ones inside the mod) are all very playable. Before I was playing 1280 x 1024 on a 4/3 19" and I don't find that much difference.

I think I'm going to stock a couple of 16/10 monitors (I plan on buying a 26" soon) before they disappear. I don't like the 16/9 at all...

piri_reis

01-29-10, 06:19 AM

I play it in hirez also, 1680x1050, 16:10 LCD monitor.
But as some have said here, none of the stretching bothers me.
Actually the other way around 4:3 scaling or whatever its called, looks a little weird.
But if you all want to get crazy with this mod, good luck :salute:

karamazovnew

01-29-10, 02:41 PM

Hitman, before starting working on KiUB I spent a lot of time (2 months I think) trying to create a 3D periscope interface. There were 2 problems:
1. Periscope Bearing can't be turned into a circular dial. I wanted to do a sort of FOV dial to show the orientation of the scope
2. The TDC Autoupdate crap that doesn't let you manipulate the dials.
3. No "go back on right click" camera from the periscope view.
4. No control over the stadimeter.
5. No ability to create "new" dials.

What I did manage to do:
I was able to link the periscope seat cam to the periscope itself. I then transformed the periscope object into a dial, the TDC Bearing one. SO as long as Autoupdate was ON, every time you moved the bearing dial on the TDC (unwanted effect) or moved the periscope (wanted effect), the periscope itself would rotate and the seat camera would show you a new perspective of the conning tower. Even more, You could check the Bearing by looking up above the periscope.
I then added a 3D dial which I was able to turn into a 3D AOBF. But no matter how much I tried, I couldn't make it move automatically when I changed the Mast size or moved the stadimeter. Also, the stadimeter doesn't have an available command. To access the TDC I actually accessed the Conning Tower Camera which was fixed on the TDC and didn't move with the waves. It didn't work BAD, but not good either. All of the above are true both in SH3 and SH4. They might work in SH5 however :D

karamazovnew

01-29-10, 02:56 PM

Actually, when SH5 was announced with a free roaming camera, I couldn't believe my lucky ears. I was sure that the devs must've wanted a full 3D interface too. How wrong I was....

To make a full 3d interface you need something like (and I now make a full repeat of my very first post on Subsim):

- No clicking on dials... You change the TDC ones by turning knobs. You change course and speed by giving orders to crew.
- No more clicking on objects that are 40 meters away. Tooltips should also be available only for close objects.
- No more 2d dials. You check your status by looking at the real dials.
- A "steady-cam" button like SHIFT to prevent the camera from moving with the waves.
- more control over the cameras: "From this camera, while I keep the X key or the right mouse button pressed, show me the Z camera." In this way, you'd be able to "lean" into the periscope to look through the viewfinder.
- Predefined "focus" points for cameras. From the periscope seat camera, it would be nice to look up quickly to check bearings, look to the Dials on the wall, look down to see the AOBF and so on, just by a flick of the mouse.
- Full functionality of each station. Otherwise, what's the point in using a station manually? For example the Sonar didn't just have a stupid volume knob. It had an "equalizer" so you could filter out unwanted frequencies. It also had a cut-out amplitude/frequency filter to check if a ship was closing or moving away.
- A smart orders interface coupled with the relation of your position (for example you're in the conning tower) to the officer's position (for example torpedo room). The less clicking the better, I know, but the illusion should be preserved (talk into a mic, pass the order to a sailor who passes it to another and so on, call for an officer to come to you etc.)
- Text boxes to allow entering precise absolute/relative orders. For example, Go 10 meters deeper, increase speed to 70 rpm and so on.
- crew scripts: "pump out water when we're being depth charged, stop when the explosions stop".
- better reports from the Weapon's Officer. He should've been able to give you intercept course bearings just by rotating the AOB (read my manual targeting tutorial) and correct the AOB after a course change.
- And yes, an AOBF coupled with horizontal and vertical split prism stadimeter.
- And a blond pornstar!

Hitman

01-29-10, 03:09 PM

- And a blond pornstar!

If you have that, you no longer need SH3 at all :har:

Hitman

01-30-10, 12:01 PM

Hummm it seems that not many widescreen users are actually interested :hmmm:

OK, we saved us a lot of effort :yeah:

conus00

01-30-10, 02:21 PM

Hummm it seems that not many widescreen users are actually interested :hmmm:

I don't think that's it. I think that a lots of people are waiting (and secretly hoping) for the SHV mess to be sorted out and that the SHV will replace SHIII.
I believe that this thread might get better response about 2 weeks - month after SHV is released and turns out to be a flop.

I, for one, would love to see SH3 fully in widescreen. I have been using rubini's mod, but the unmodded stuff is just bad (stretched images, dials etc.).
I got 32in Bravia for Xmas (1920x1080) and games look amazing on this thing... :rock:

verte

01-30-10, 03:27 PM

I think that a lots of people are waiting (and secretly hoping) for the SHV mess to be sorted out and that the SHV will replace SHIII.
I'm actually waiting for Hitman's new GUI for SH3 (normal, not wide-screen). There is a special installation of SH3 on my disk waiting only for this, so I hope that you will finish soon, Hitman :salute:

karamazovnew

01-30-10, 07:52 PM

I'm actually waiting for Hitman's new GUI for SH3 (normal, not wide-screen). There is a special installation of SH3 on my disk waiting only for this, so I hope that you will finish soon, Hitman :salute:

Oh yeah, Hitman, at least a screenshot or something :D
BTW, if anyone want to hijack this thread and talk about what his perfect interface would look like (in SH5), go ahead, maybe some of those things can be implemented in SH3 too

JScones

01-30-10, 09:21 PM

Hummm it seems that not many widescreen users are actually interested :hmmm:

OK, we saved us a lot of effort :yeah:
It's not that I'm not interested, it's just that having followed a number of attempts at this over the years that always hit the same stumbling blocks I'm not sure I'd ever prefer it over fixed-aspect...unless the stumbling blocks were overcome.

I'm fortunate in that I have an nVidia card, which means that even with my widescreen monitor I can maintain 4:3 ratio and with scaling.

For me, black bands on the left and right of the monitor are preferred over ovalled circles and such. Find a fix for that, and I'd be interested.

Reece

01-31-10, 02:12 AM

Hummm it seems that not many widescreen users are actually interested :hmmm:

OK, we saved us a lot of effort :yeah:I'm very much interested but as I have said the widescreen only works on ATI cards, this splits people interested in half, this really is the main problem, I would work on it further but can't pass this first hurdle! so far I have been completely ignored!:-?

Hitman

01-31-10, 04:01 AM

Humm OK I understand your position guys.

@Karamazov:

The more I think about this, the more convinced I am that the only way to overcome this problem is to go 3D. It would also be the less work-intensive way to do it.

Basically, the idea would be as follows:

1.-Strip all 2D screens from dials and rotating things (Periscopes, UZO, TDC). In the tool bar, the 6 dials that are there can be replaced by simple digital readouts. The work done to rescale periscope will anyway serve also for the UZO and the other periscope. But I would leave the Notepad out, as that can be a big headache. If many users request it, it can be added later, but I would go for a first functional release, and then slowly implementing more things. Otherwise the job will burn any takers.

2.-Rescale the images of all 2D screens that are to stay. This is the most work intensive part, specially the icons. But it also is the less important one, because it's actually the oval dials what looks worser. This should therefore be done, as I said, in different steps.

3.-Rework certain 3D stations and link them to the F keys. For example, the TDC screen would no longer be a 2D screen with attack map, but instead hitting the key would take you to the conning tower to a zoomed view in front of the TDC. That TDC would benefit from a new, higher resolution model, for which we can use what Karamazov already created for SH4.

In all, this would give a reasonably looking interface, at the expense of not being as detailed as the ones that can be created in 4:3

I would suggest making first the stripped version of the interface WITHOUT resizing dials and letting widescreen users download and test it, so they can voice their opinion about if it is too simple to be of good use and not worth the effort, as it would fall short.

Mikhayl

01-31-10, 07:55 PM

And there are already some functionalities for that in game.
When you right clic on the weapon officer you get a fixed view zoomed on the bottom part of the TDC. Now you'd need to move the WE in the conning tower (doable I think with the open hatch mods) and have his camera fixed on the TDC.
And why not use some hyper hi-res textures for that particular part to have a more acceptable level of detail compared to the 2D interface.

Same for the LI if I'm not mistaken, right clicking on him gives you a fixed view on the telegraphs and rudder controls on the wall behind him. It could be moved to have a larger fixed view showing both the engine, rudder and depth control dials.

You can also have the "goback" button set on the right-click, but it's a bit cumbersome when using the tools on the navmap (you usually use right clic to "cancel" a tool, now it puts you back in the CR).

Sorry if it's already been posted, I only read the thread quickly :oops:

Hitman

02-01-10, 12:41 AM

When you right clic on the weapon officer you get a fixed view zoomed on the bottom part of the TDC. Now you'd need to move the WE in the conning tower (doable I think with the open hatch mods) and have his camera fixed on the TDC.
And why not use some hyper hi-res textures for that particular part to have a more acceptable level of detail compared to the 2D interface.

Same for the LI if I'm not mistaken, right clicking on him gives you a fixed view on the telegraphs and rudder controls on the wall behind him. It could be moved to have a larger fixed view showing both the engine, rudder and depth control dials.

That's a damn good idea I had forgotten about :yeah:

Seeadler

02-01-10, 09:19 AM

Yes, that is what I said. Anything that doesn't actually move has no problems at all. The problem are the needles inside dials, which rotate and will look larger when positioned horizontally, than when vertically.

The solution to the problem might actually be in that :)

We know that anything 2D will not get rescaled, and that dials will therefore look horrible when they rotate ...
How does it work in SH4, are the needles there not 2D image overlays?:hmmm:

Hitman

02-01-10, 09:24 AM

SH4 has a new parameter hardcoded and that is correspondly reflected in the menu.ini, allowing to re-scale the 2D items. Basically when applied it seems to rescale everything keeping the 4:3 aspect and using either the original heigth or width of the object as base, depending on what you set the menu-ini to do. Karamazov knows a lot more than me about this, you can find the relevant info here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1157028&postcount=7

karamazovnew

02-01-10, 01:00 PM

Castout

02-02-10, 09:30 PM

A very good idea and intention indeed.

I'm playing at 1440x900 resolution and I only need the periscope done to fit my wide screen ratio

Reece

02-02-10, 10:29 PM

A very good idea and intention indeed.

I'm playing at 1440x900 resolution and I only need the periscope done to fit my wide screen ratioAnother good thing to resolve is the disappearing mouse cursor on higher resolutions!:yep:

Lionman

02-04-10, 07:37 AM

I've been wondering...
How many people would like a wide-rez interface mod? "

"It might not even be feasable unless you all want to use the same interface mod. It can only be done for a specific aspect ratio. Most probably 16:10 since most monitors now use this resolution. In that case, 16:9 screens would see a 0.9 vertical deformation. (current deformation is 0.75). Plus, many items simply can't be changed (such as the periscope bearing text). Also, such an enterprise would require a rebuild from scratch of the SH interface. This is by far NOT easy.

Only one relevant comment in response from me.

I run a triple screen rig using an NVidia 8800 GTX running through a MATROX TripleHead2Go splitter box. My 3 flat screen 21" colour LED monitors creating a display that is 12 inches high by 5 feet wide, absolutely perfect for portraying the ocean, sky or landscape totally convincingly in a wrap around way. Once one has experienced this kind of perspective one can never be content with a single small screen again. Being old, retired, with no woman in my life currently and having a classic addictive personality, I use this rig to compulsively enjoy the most ultra-immersive and realistic simulations available, including motor racing and civilian flying but especially ground, sea and air combat.

Currently that includes the following simulators.

Ground combat . . . . ARMA ii, Modern Warfare 2 & Red Orchestra
Civilian Flying . . . . . FSX
Air combat . . . . . . . IL2 1946, Lock On (LOMAC), KA 80 Blackshark, Rise of Flight.
Ocean Combat. . . . . SH II, SH IV and as soon as it comes out SH V

(Although they have the correct wide-screen option I so seldom use the best of the motor racing sims like GRID and DIRT that I haven't included them above. This is largely because their user interfaces are appallingly clunky perhaps because they only have to cater to a younger and shallower gamers market not a mature bunch of obsessive, critical, intelligent and demanding realists like heavy sim users!)

My MATROX driven triple display gives me fantastically immersive HD wide angle and transorms ALL the sims above into things of wonder that cause visitors jaws to drop. They virtually (sic) always say something like "I never saw the point of them before because I never knew that simulations could be THIS realistic but now I can entirely see why you are so enthusiastic and involved!" This is almost inevitably followed by "Can I have a go?" Even non-computer literate women have this reaction rather than the near universal dismissal of simulators as "video games".

The MATROX software automatically allows for the deviding bar between screens and keeps the perspective correct, with no "jumps" and also adds a triple screen resolution or 3XXX by 12XX to all one's simulators but not all of them adjust the perspective, so it is the game sw not the MATROX sw that needs to be updated or Modded. I should add that triple-screen users are an exceedingly rapidly expanding community who tend to only buy games that have the correct perspective, so the gaming houses need to see this as a sales issue too as the gaming drives the tech and the tech then drives the gaming in a highly profitable cycle that WE all pay for as long as they give us what we ask for next!

[Note. I only actually play ONE or at most TWO of the above obsessively most of the time, the others are occasional treats. Otherwise I would scarcely have time to do anything else! I seldom post for the same reason but my rare posts are always too long anyway.]

If you have seen Avatar and had your ear to the grape vine in 2009 you will know that the future is 3D and that will include TV and Gamingnot just "a few movies". I disagree with complacent and pompous self-appointed TV pundits like Mark Kermode who think 3D is just a re-run of a "geeky fad. The same was said of the ZX80, Commodore 64 and BBC B by the same kind of pundits who proved to be only "legends in their own lunchtime"! LOL Remember?

So what's my problem, comment or response for this thread?

Well, apart from FSX, ARMA II, K-80 Blackshark and Rise of Flight which are all modern sims built with state-of-the-art and future tech in mind, virtually NONE of the simulations listed above (plus dozens more unlisted that i have and have tried) have true "correct perspective" for triple-screen, ultra-wide-screen or even simple wide-screen displays.

So when fighting in Modern Weapons 2 for example although the landscape and buildings all look pretty correct, the human avatars look squat, broad and a tad comical, wasting the vast effort put into their now near "photo-realism". The mind rapidly adjusts and ignors this but it does cancel out some of the immersive realism of expensive wide or triple screen displays.

I mention it here because all such comments equally apply to any ultra-wide-screen view in any simulation.

Can I take this opportunity to sincerely commend MATROX TripleHead2Go to every virtual submariner on this forum! You cannot BELIEVE how gloriously real the waves, weather and night sky all look in SH IV in a 5' ultra-wide-screen view. As currently configured however, as in part this thread addresses, SH doesn't utilise my display edge-to-edge but creates a kind of semi-wide-screen display that half overlaps the left and right screens, wasting and denying me the "full width display" that i have invested so much to enjoy.

It is worth adding that I also employ Track IR, so in aircraft, race cars, tanks or on the bridge of a sub it is very very like being in a real cockpit as one can glance in any direction and the screen view responds to one's head movements in real time.

UM . . . . I don't get a lot else done and sometimes forget to go shopping or cook meals. LOL sad I suppose but HUGE FUN and my grandsons love it!

Another setting I would love to see in most or even all simulators is split sound channels with one channel for ambient sounds t be output from one's surround-sound speakers and one for one's headphones and boom mike. This simple division would enormously enhance all those simulations of real world situations where one wears, hears and talks clearly on a headset whilst in a noisy surrounding environment, such as a modern race or rally car cockpit, an aircraft cockpit or in modern infantry combat.

The headset position is already picked up by Track IR and the screen view moved with the surround-sound remaining oriented to the craft, vehicle, or aircraft's orientation and sounds. i.e. when one looks to the left in a twin-engined aircraft one hears the left engine more loudly than the right and when one passes a nopisy static object such as a steam train, it's sound passes the moving aircraft or vehicle in the correct directional way, reflected also in the motion of one's head. So such a dual sound channeloption would need to tie the head motion to the headphones and the surround-siound to the vehicle. This is feasible using one's head as one (mobile) axis relative to the vehicle, plane or craft, whose orientation relative to the surrounding virtual landscape, sky or ocean is the second axis.

Final note. IMO the sound track of the title sequence of our current SH IV is absolutely stunning and I often replay it just to listen! But am I alone in finding the "speeded up visuals" utterly utterly dumb, distracting, inexplicable and unnecessarily destroying the theatrical granduer of the voice over? Who ever accepted those visuals should be shot and whoever chose the sound voice over promoted and put in charge of the SH V titles! I say this as a modern jazz loving art house movie goer, not as a conventional visual conservative. I can see what the intention may have been but the conflict between the pace of the voice over and the pace of the visuals just looks like a system failure and does NOT work IMO.

Sound is SOOOOOOO important. A young jazz orchestra leader friend of mine, sadly now deceased, once made the telling observation that a crap film with a stunning sound track appears deep and one will tolerate a great deal of ambiguity and wait ages to see what it's about, yet a deep film with a crap sound track is almost unwatchable and one may turn it off in seconds. This is perfectly illustrated by almost all porn although of course "I've seldom watched any" NOT.

Hence the ocean sounds in SH are extremely important as are the underwater sounds from inside and outside the boat. Far from being as it was once called a "silent world" the sub-sea environment is surprisingly noisy and sound highly directional thanks to being transmitted 4 times further than in air. As a professional saturation diver back in the day it often sounded in deep water as if I were being "digested by the sea" with very similar sounds to those heard by stethoscope in the human allimentary tract! This is generally well-simualted in classic submarine combat movies underwater views and needs to be an equally important focus in SH.

:arrgh!:

Seeadler

03-02-10, 05:24 PM

I did a bit hardcoding and trying to develop my own widescreen soloution which is a replacement of the HighRex Fix d3d9.dll. It's not perfect by now, needs more code, but 3D interrior is no longer stretched in 16:9 (without camera mod). Next steps are the correct positioning of 2D overlays and variable input configuration of screen resoloutions

http://s4b.directupload.net/images/100302/temp/a5pt5hrh.png (http://s4b.directupload.net/file/d/2086/a5pt5hrh_png.htm)

see the command bar is not stretched, maybe I render it in the middle of the screen:hmmm:

karamazovnew

03-03-10, 05:19 AM

@ Lionman: SH3 definitely wouldn't work with a triple display :haha:. I can't wait to get my hands on a Head Tracker but I'll wait 2-3 more years to get enough side money to make myself a good DirectX 12 rig with a metal cockpit and the best joysticks on the market. You might want to keep an eye on the progress of the HMD's.(Head Mounted Display). There are a few nice ones out there at very low prices but their resolution is very low (<800x600). This year the prices will drop to around 250$ for an HMD with 800x600 resolution and a 35 degree screen. I reckon that in 2 years max we will have an HD version with 60 degrees HMD. That is the limit of what your eye can focus on such devices. Note that all will have 3D and head tracking included. But they still will not allow you to rotate your eyes inside the device, you still need to look "forward". The real breakthrough will be in (i hope) 4-5 years when the current 20-30.000 $ professional HMD's will become cheap and widespread. I can't wait for it :haha:. Just imagine playing the next IL-2 with that :D Full 160 degrees vision OMG111 :haha:

@Seadler: Can you makeobjects appear outside the 1024/768 box? Also, can you load in a wide image to fill the screen?

Seeadler

03-03-10, 06:15 AM

Can you makeobjects appear outside the 1024/768 box?
No, but if the viewport is set to 1024/768, i can set it to other res. The viewport is the area on the screen where objects are rendered.

Also, can you load in a wide image to fill the screen?Not by myself in a meaningful integration into the game mechanics, but I can see if the engine prepares a loaded texture to be rendered over the scene as a gui element. At this moment I can scale the loaded texture.

That is happend in my posted screen. The 3D scene was set to 1680/1050 but the loaded image for the dials bar was set to 1024 width and positioned on the left edge.

My intentions are to implement a mechanism as you described it here:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1157028&postcount=7

Hitman

03-03-10, 07:48 AM

Amazing Seeadler, would boost a lot of new life into SH3, since many have given it up because of the fixed screen res :up:

karamazovnew

03-03-10, 07:59 AM

That technique only worked for SH4. SH3 elements don't have a zone line. Try to move an interface object like the Notepad a few hundred pixels to the left (just increase the X offset of the main group). And see if it's cut off. I doubt it. I think it will show in full.

As for the image, just rescale one background in photoshop, for example the background image of the periscope. Make it as big as your screen can handle. I think that the game actually draws elements regardless of the viewport size.
Or just upload the dll file as it is. We'd work faster together :D

EDIT: Oh BTW, does the mouse work outside the 1024 box? We have to be able to click there. :))

BillCar

03-03-10, 09:17 AM

I'm very glad to see that this is underway. Can't wait!

Hitman

03-03-10, 10:41 AM

The 3D scene was set to 1680/1050 but the loaded image for the dials bar was set to 1024 width and positioned on the left edge.

My intentions are to implement a mechanism as you described it here:

Hummm if you manage to produce something that rescales the images to whatever size the screen res is using horizontally, then I guess it would be easier to make a wide-res screen interface by repositioning everything closer together in the vertical, so that it still fits inside the visible area (Because the wide res will make the screen proportionally not so tall). You could do it in the vertical, and it would be better because that way no modification at all of the menu.ini would be needed, but then the tools bar and rest of items would not be centered. Or would it be possible to put them in the screen centre besides scaling them? Something like "scale Y to current vertical res, then scale X in 4:3 to resulting new Y, then (current screen width minus resulting rescaled width) / 2 is the number of pixels you need to move right, before starting rendering from bottom left corner" :hmmm:

Certainly a major breakthrough :up:

Rubini

03-07-10, 08:58 PM

Very good work Seeadler! Sh3 deserves a very good well resolved WS mod.
Please don´t give up, we can help you making tests and so on.:up::up:

Rubini

03-07-10, 09:11 PM