The last subsim ever?

[difool2]

Inspired by the thread on all the features lost from old subsims. Now, I consider myself a pretty optimistic guy, but, in the wake of the bad (truncated campaign), badder (only one sub) & baddest (intrusive DRM) news lately, I now wonder if this will be the last game which will ever claim the title of being a subsim. Modern subsims are now history, & modern combat flight sims have been extinct for several years (tho there's a few WWI/WWII ones floating around of course). I fear that subsims may join the Pile of Forsaken PC Genres if this release goes belly up-I hope I'm wrong I really do tho.

[Torplexed]

Ever is a long time. Forever more so. ;)

I can remember when we all thought the flawed SH2 was the end of the line for WW2 subsims. You never know what's brewing out there.

[dcb]

This would create a pretty big uncovered niche and eventually a developer will find it proper to cover it, when people will get bored with the zillion of dumbed-down shooters and arcades that are norm these days. It will take years for this, but it will eventually happen.

[Letum]

There is at least one more WW2 u-boat sim in development as we speak.

[Webster]

There is at least one more WW2 u-boat sim in development as we speak.


we trust you wont be following the UBI example of how to ruin a game and bad advertising strategy when its ready lol

[Letum]

we trust you wont be following the UBI example of how to ruin a game and bad advertising strategy when its ready lol


Heh, I wasn't talking about subwolves, thats a strategy game.
I meant Dangerdeep.

[Delareon]

i dont think this will be the last subsim. But maybe the last one with an better quality.
Because i really have respect for the work of that Open Source Simulators but they can never match an commercial product. In single aspects of the game yes but not the whole game.
For example: in that Danger of the Deep Screenies i have watched, where is the Crew?

[martes86]

Ah hell, if there's no more subsims around, I'll make my own one. I already have a graphics engine at my disposal. :DL

[Kaleun_Endrass]

in that Danger of the Deep Screenies i have watched, where is the Crew?
You can compare DotD with SH2. No Crew, no interior, just a steril boat and steril 2D interfaces...

[Kapitanleutnant]

Some of you are being a bit melodramatic. Of course there will be future subsims. Don't the Combat Mission guys release one every now and again? Dangerous Waters? Then there's Danger from the Deep, Subwolves.
And as I've said elswhere - there will always be a market for simulations, even if it's not as big as it was previously.*
If the SH series gets cancelled I'm certain beyond any and all doubt that another dev and publisher will move in to fill the void with their own franchise.

*I don't actually think that simulations have become less popular, rather gaming as a whole has become much more popular. Mass market games tend to marginalise simulations, and publishers want to chase that money.

[Hartmann]

Ah hell, if there's no more subsims around, I'll make my own one. I already have a graphics engine at my disposal. :DL

i´m agree , it´s the future of simulation games, games created by groups of people or single developers, for example Orbiter, it was created by Martin schweiger and it´s the only realistic space simulator ( and the best by far) also there are a full sdk so the community can create everything that they want (solar systems, planets, spacecrafts..).

If some people managed to create a thing like that , or operating systems like linux, it will be possible create a engine that could be used for all kind of games, adding modules and units , and a sdk.

Perhaps ShV it´s the last subsim for Pc released by a big company , after SHV it will be an arcade submarine games for consoles , no mods, simplified, more action focused and with a history line ,and hosted in external servers.

The first step for this sad future is SHV. it´s a test to see if the sales are good in the new target , console players.:yep:

[kiwi_2005]

If it came to that, it would only be the end for the PC. SH6 on the xbox?

[Adriatico]

:wah:
GIIIVEE ME MY GWX4 !!! ... ALAAAAAARM!!! PLEASE JUST FINISH THE REST!!!
All the GreyWolves at combat stations (pc) !!!
:wah:

[urfisch]

If it came to that, it would only be the end for the PC. SH6 on the xbox?

maybe...pc games seem not to have a bright future.

Perhaps ShV it´s the last subsim for Pc released by a big company , after SHV it will be an arcade submarine games for consoles , no mods, simplified, more action focused and with a history line ,and hosted in external servers.

aye...i wait for a smaller studio, that really cares.

[Reece]

If it came to that, it would only be the end for the PC. SH6 on the xbox?Well atleast you wouldn't have to be online to play the game!!:x

[Delareon]

You can compare DotD with SH2. No Crew, no interior, just a steril boat and steril 2D interfaces...

Thats it Kaleun_Endrass. SH2 is many years old. I never played DotD maybe i try it if RL allows, but to be a real option it has to be comparable with todays games. And its not, it simply cant be because of the Open Source Aspect
(many coders working at theyr freetime versus payed programmers and many more reasons which seems to be too much offtopic i think).

Its not that i think DotD is a bad game or something like that its just no real option to products like the SH3, 4 or 5.

Orbiter is called the "best" Spaceshuttle simulator and its Opensource. well, there are just no other Spaceshuttle Simulator so in relation to subsims this isnt an argument.

OpenSource is a cool thing but for Games development it cant beat a company.

[Hartmann]

Orbiter is called the "best" Spaceshuttle simulator and its Opensource. well, there are just no other Spaceshuttle Simulator so in relation to subsims this isnt an argument.

OpenSource is a cool thing but for Games development it cant beat a company.

No , orbiter have a lot of addons and there are some space shuttles available, some better than others (and a very long list of addons).
Orbiter is the "world" where community use his addons :yep:

Orbiter and subsim are similar the only difference is the origin of the game, in a company only think in $$ while the open source thinks in users and realism.

perhaps open source in some cases can´t beat a company, the problem is that a company don´t develop a game for a limited number of users.

[badkarma]

OpenSource is a cool thing but for Games development it cant beat a company.

Check out Open BVE. Arguably the best modern train cab simulator available. Limited to a specific genre of train unlike MSTS, Trainz and Railsimulator/Railworks but better than all of them in it's specific area.
http://openbve.trainsimcentral.co.uk/

Point is, for a niche subject matter open source (or more importantly, fan made) games/sims can often offer more man hours and knowledge than money making game companies can afford to use and turn a profit.

With all the skills in this forum it rather suprises me that more people haven't jumped on board with Danger from the Deep to help that become the sub sim that everyone here dreams of but that is so hardcore and niche no games company will EVER make for highstreet sale.

[mookiemookie]

With all the skills in this forum it rather suprises me that more people haven't jumped on board with Danger from the Deep to help that become the sub sim that everyone here dreams of but that is so hardcore and niche no games company will EVER make for highstreet sale.

+1

I've seen so many people say "Oh if only we could create our own subsim!" Well, you CAN. It's being done. I guess what they really mean is "oh if only someone would do all the work for me!"

[ParaB]

...modern combat flight sims have been extinct for several years....
Ever played Black Shark? Or Yankee Air Pirate 2? I take it you're not that much interested in the A-10 sim developed by DCS? I certainly wouldn't call that 'extinct'. Maybe 'dormant'. :cool:

Game development is based on demand. If a developer/publisher thinks there's a reasonable market for sims they WILL produce them. With the advent of online distribution I actually think the future of sims doesn't look so bad. Of course, this comes with a caveat:

The days of big-budget simulations by major developers is IMO over. We will never see a Falcon 4.0 again. Nor will we ever see sims again like in the 'golden age' of sims with thick printed manuals and great production values like in the early 90s. The future of the mass-market is the casual player.

But IMO smaller, independent devs WILL take up the challenge sooner or later.

[martes86]

With all the skills in this forum it rather suprises me that more people haven't jumped on board with Danger from the Deep to help that become the sub sim that everyone here dreams of but that is so hardcore and niche no games company will EVER make for highstreet sale.

With all due respect to the DftD devs, their sim is very far from matching SH3's quality standards in all aspects (actually, very far from being a finished product). If, say, I jumped on to that project, I'd most likely tell them to start all over, with Ogre3D. They wouldn't like the idea, as they develop (last I heard) with SDL, a rather complex API for development which doesn't totally convince me as being the ideal. So I'd end doing my own sim.

Anyways, there are a lot of modders but, how many hardcore C++ programmers are out there? I'd say not many. Very few actually.

Cheers :rock:

[karamazovnew]

With all due respect to the DftD devs, their sim is very far from matching SH3's quality standards in all aspects (actually, very far from being a finished product). If, say, I jumped on to that project, I'd most likely tell them to start all over, with Ogre3D. They wouldn't like the idea, as they develop (last I heard) with SDL, a rather complex API for development which doesn't totally convince me as being the ideal. So I'd end doing my own sim.

Anyways, there are a lot of modders but, how many hardcore C++ programmers are out there? I'd say not many. Very few actually.

Cheers :rock:

That might not be a bad idea... With good planning, programming can be simplified quite a lot. And I bet most here already have given up on eye-candy. An alternative would be for Ubi to open up the SH3 engine or even provide a SDK for it. That would be the day... :haha:

[mookiemookie]

That might not be a bad idea... With good planning, programming can be simplified quite a lot. And I bet most here already have given up on eye-candy. An alternative would be for Ubi to open up the SH3 engine or even provide a SDK for it. That would be the day... :haha:

I doubt very much that Ubi is going to do that - they would be, in essence, creating an ATO competitor for Silent Hunter 5.

[karamazovnew]

I doubt very much that Ubi is going to do that - they would be, in essence, creating an ATO competitor for Silent Hunter 5.

Are you serious?!
SH3 doesn't require me to pay more money or to get sat net for my laptop. It has more subs and longer and tougher career. In my book, Sh5 doesn't even compete with SH3. :haha:

[Iron Budokan]

There will be other subsims from other companies in the future.

But as far as this particular franchise goes, it's hard to see how it hasn't reached crush depth.

[mookiemookie]

There will be other subsims from other companies in the future.

But as far as this particular franchise goes, it's hard to see how it hasn't reached crush depth.

I think now would be a perfect time for a smaller studio to start a sub sim. Look at all of the disgruntled fanbase who would buy it, if for no other reason than to send a message to Ubi.

[Sailor Steve]

You can compare DotD with SH2. No Crew, no interior, just a steril boat and steril 2D interfaces...
So get busy and fix those things if you don't like them. Personally I think the crew is cool, but AOD and SH1 didn't have those, and they were a blast to play.

[karamazovnew]

So get busy and fix those things if you don't like them. Personally I think the crew is cool, but AOD and SH1 didn't have those, and they were a blast to play.

Makes me wonder how good SH5 would've been if the devs actually talked to us since they started work.

"Hey fellas, we might not have time to model all the subs so we're going with VII's only, what do you think?"

rabble rabble rabble

"Okok, but the campaign was lost in 43 so we thought to end the game then."

rabble rabble rabble

"Btw, how about this DRM thing?"

rabble rabble rabble

"FFS! What if we just put features from AOD on top of SH3 and made better graphics and fixed the bugs? What then?!"

multiple orgasms, people faint of joy

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_87/11598312933WBzSX.jpg

[Webster]

Makes me wonder how good SH5 would've been if the devs actually talked to us since they started work.

"Hey fellas, we might not have time to model all the subs so we're going with VII's only, what do you think?"

rabble rabble rabble

"Okok, but the campaign was lost in 43 so we thought to end the game then."

rabble rabble rabble

"Btw, how about this DRM thing?"

rabble rabble rabble

"FFS! What if we just put features from AOD on top of SH3 and made better graphics and fixed the bugs? What then?!"

multiple orgasms, people faint of joy

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_87/11598312933WBzSX.jpg

trust me, the devs feel the same way but you have to do what/when/how your boss tells you to do it to keep your job

[karamazovnew]

trust me, the devs feel the same way but you have to do what/when/how your boss tells you to do it to keep your job

Probably, but after this stunt, the boss might be out of a job. Maybe that's a good thing.

[Webster]

all too often companies hire 20 something year olds to be the bosses/heads of depts because they are "in tune" with what the kids want in video games today, and these morons end up taking small problems and turning them into flaming dissasters because of how they think it should be.

[JU_88]

keep in mind that the only thing that determines SHVs fate is its sales after release... not the endless ranting on subsim.
Nearly every new game in a big franchise gets the same treatment on its respective forums.

Like many, im disapointed with the shortened campaing and single sub type.
But some have decided its a disaster before anyones even played it, ffs whats done is done, so might as well give it a chance?

As for DRM? meh its not nice but we either deal with it or ditch PC gaming, its not the 90's anymore - end of story.

[kptn_kaiserhof]

very true we are in the age of console but the pc gaming genre still has my vote