Will the DRM affect your Purchase? [Archive] - Page 3

rascal101

02-23-10, 11:23 PM

Thats about it good post - hopefully the folks on this forum who think there is nothing wrong with DRM might pause and reflect - I doubt it but one lives and one hopes

R

All this game is is an ONLINE GAME, where you pay the fee up front, and they decide when you play, and how you play it.

I CAN SEE A UBISOFT PRESS RELEASE, 2 YEARS FROM NOW:

February 2012.

"Ubisoft Management announces that they will no longer be providing free support for the playing of Silent Hunter V. For a small monthly fee, you may continue to play Silent Hunter V on a subsidiary's network servers or YOU MAY UPGRADE TO SILENT HUNTER VII for a one-time fee of $49.95. Ubisoft regrets this decision however current economic models prohibit the further continuance of player support directly from Ubisoft. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

Thank you,
Ubisoft Management"

Imagine the small print on this baby also: "Ubisoft may scan players computer at any time, and any data collected whether by accident or intention is agreed upon and permission is hereby granted by the playing party...."

No thanks Ubisoft, NO GAME IS WORTH THIS, lolz

Méo

02-23-10, 11:42 PM

@rascal

Pure speculation.

I could also speculate and say that in 2 years they are gonna release a patch that will remove OSP.

Harry Buttle

02-23-10, 11:45 PM

I've bought every Silent Hunter game and add on since the first one (on the Amiga IIRC), but this DRM is too intrusive.

Much as I hate to say it, I want SH V to fail commercially, I just hope that if it does, Ubisoft realise that it was their DRM that killed it.

It will be a shame if the Silent Hunter series dies here, but I will not let Ubisoft walk me on a chain.

Reece

02-24-10, 12:04 AM

@rascal

Pure speculation.

I could also speculate and say that in 2 years they are gonna release a patch that will remove OSP.After a few years or so support will be dropped for the game, then the game is useless!! They are dictating to us when to stop playing the game!:-? That is not on!!:nope:

kylania

02-24-10, 12:28 AM

After a few years or so support will be dropped for the game, then the game is useless!! They are dictating to us when to stop playing the game!:-? That is not on!!:nope:

To be fair they have said before that should the DRM system be shut down they'd issue a patch to get out it out of the game.

Then again most of what they are saying is nonsense.

Reece

02-24-10, 01:14 AM

To be fair they have said before that should the DRM system be shut down they'd issue a patch to get out it out of the game.

Then again most of what they are saying is nonsense.When they are finished with the game so are we, wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them!!!:-?

bookworm_020

02-24-10, 01:29 AM

IF I can't use SHV without an internet connection, I won't be getting it! No matter how good it is!:nope:

Von Manteuffel

02-24-10, 09:01 AM

I do most of my game-playing on the road, via a totally beefed-up laptop. However, most of the hotels I stay in either don't have in-room internet access, or charge a hefty rate for it ( usually by the hour ). I'm not blaming the hotels. Internet access for business travellers is a saleable commodity, which most business people can claim as part of their expenses. But I won't, on principal, claim from my company for personal internet use.
So, I'm either not going to be able to play the game at all, or I'm going to have to pay extra each time I want to play it.

Sorry - It's just too much! Napoleon Total War, here I come. At least with Steam once you've registered you can ignore it.

msxyz

02-24-10, 12:55 PM

I do most of my game-playing on the road, via a totally beefed-up laptop. However, most of the hotels I stay in either don't have in-room internet access, or charge a hefty rate for it ( usually by the hour ). I'm not blaming the hotels. Internet access for business travellers is a saleable commodity, which most business people can claim as part of their expenses. But I won't, on principal, claim from my company for personal internet use.
So, I'm either not going to be able to play the game at all, or I'm going to have to pay extra each time I want to play it.

Well put. I'm in the same (u)boat. :arrgh!:

But even at home, where I've an unlimited fiber connection I don't like the idea of being constantly tethered to the internet. Playing mostly single player CRPGs, my gaming rig is connected to the internet only in times of need (downloading a patch, authenticating, etc) while I use other PCs for mundane tasks (chats, surfing, d'loading demos, etc...)

Steeltrap

02-24-10, 07:37 PM

Sorry - It's just too much! Napoleon Total War, here I come. At least with Steam once you've registered you can ignore it.

Yes, but NTW will have the same inexcusable faults as found in ETW. For that reason I'm not buying it, either.

I'm tired of giving my money to companies releasing second rate, error-riddled products.

CaptianT

02-25-10, 03:40 AM

Count me out as well if they put in the DRM!! I still am shocked and very disappointed that they are going down this road!

Corsair

02-25-10, 05:00 AM

My playing machine is not connected to internet. So SH3 NYGM 3.3 + Living SH3 and SH4 RFB / RSRD will go on for me...:yep: Plus I don't like the VII only (although I love it) and easy half war. What I have read so far here and there is not convincing. In 2 years when DRM is removed and modders have done the job...

Inside686

02-25-10, 07:32 AM

I've just decided after a period of 3 years without playing any game to start playing them again.
I wanted to buy Empire Total War (I had Rome and loved it) and discovered Steam… I thought "what the hell is that thing?"
Then I heard about Silent Hunter V (played hugely to SHIII) and discovered DRM… I thought "what the hell is that thing?"
So, I thought I loved Settlers II and discovered just now Settlers VII will have DRM too.

Can someone tell me what the hell is going on in this century ?
Will we need soon an internet connection with an account registered to who know who to use our own toilet? I mean, it’s crazy, it’s becoming worst than Sci-Fi movies.
No, no, it will be without me guys. First I don’t have an internet connection where I would play SH but it’s not the problem, when I buy something it must be mine and I must be able to use it when, where and how I want, and most of all without nofity anyone.
I don’t like how the things are becoming and not only in the world of video games, really.

Disgusted…

Nordmann

02-25-10, 07:44 AM

Yes, but NTW will have the same inexcusable faults as found in ETW. For that reason I'm not buying it, either.

I'm tired of giving my money to companies releasing second rate, error-riddled products.

Actually, player reviews here (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1430) have thus far been positive, it seems that NTW has far more spit and polish than ETW. That is not to say it isn't without it's problems, but at least a 24/7 connection isn't required!

At almost £10 cheaper than SHV, I personally feel that it is a better deal (at this moment in time). I pre-ordered mine ages ago, just waiting for the damned post to arrive.

Ragtag

02-25-10, 07:46 AM

OakGroove

02-25-10, 08:32 AM

Wrong, NTW is everything ETW wasn't. NTW is very nice and way better than ETW in all departments.

I take it you played it already?

609_Avatar

02-25-10, 09:00 AM

Wrong, NTW is everything ETW wasn't. NTW is very nice and way better than ETW in all departments.

Would you care to elaborate a bit more? Preferably in a PM so as not to hijack this thread any further? I've been a big fan of the TW series but was holding off on this one... Thanks!

Ragtag

02-25-10, 10:19 AM

I take it you played it already?

Yep, got my review copy a couple of days ago :)

PM sendt Avatar.

OakGroove

02-25-10, 10:27 AM

Raises hand :salute:. Please.

The Enigma

02-25-10, 03:12 PM

... I don't play pirated games either. The ones being hurt the most are the ones who want to buy the game and play it.
Offline.

My first thoughts were, what the f**, I'm gonna get me one of those illegal copies.

After a while, I realized this would help UBI proving their point.
I would become one of them (those pirates) and that is the last thing I wonna be.
So I have decided to wait until OSP is removed or simply will not buy the game at all (when not removed).
If the latter, I stay 'clean' and UBI looses a customer.

609_Avatar

02-25-10, 03:55 PM

PM sendt Avatar.

Thank you! :yeah:

Einsman

02-26-10, 07:19 PM

Do not understand the position of Ubi. Earlier versions of Silent Hunter (III & IV) had a price of 19 €. People who like simulation not pirated the game, buy it. All the simulations I've played I've bought: Wolfpack, Silent Hunter II, III, IV, F-15 Strike Eagle, and many others

In my humble opinion, Ubi will have a lot of information by us: When we play, like we play, etc, etc. Knowledge is power.

I want privacy in my leisure time. I do not want anyone to know (nobody cares) when I play and as I do (that are the polls).

With the DRM system, Silent Hunter V is not installed on my computer.

And it's a shame ... but ... I have Silent Hunter III !! :yeah:

Ilpalazzo

02-26-10, 08:28 PM

polls closed but count me as one who will not buy as long as that drm stays

Ducimus

02-26-10, 08:34 PM

Just wanted to say, that I was just googling a little bit, and if what i found isn't a trojan horse or fake, then the DRM has already failed. If that being the case, Ubi just royally screwed the pooch by needlessly pissing off the user base.

Reece

02-26-10, 08:39 PM

Ducimus

02-26-10, 08:46 PM

Details!:yep:

No, because i can't confirm if its genuine or not. ( I don't click on shady D/L's for software of dubious origins - period.) My gut tells me its fake, i can't believe it would be cracked so damn fast. You want details find them and decide for yourself.

KiwiVenge

02-26-10, 08:50 PM

I think I will be a wait and see kind of guy for this one. I would of happily paid the release day price if there wasn't this whole online only issue. Instead will hang back and see what sorts of problems arise (if any) before buying.
Seems a bit of a gamble for them to go about it this way, as the whole SH series always seem to get off to dodgy starts with bugs etc. I think they would of been wise to cash in on the Day 1 purchasers as best they could, not give them something else to consider before buying.

Fleishfish

02-26-10, 09:00 PM

Waves are crushing on the bow, the enemy destroyer is closing in.
Before i decide to crushdive I launch a torpedo from tube 4.
The conningtower disapears in the murky water, the men are restless.
Then the terrified eyes of the cook are staring at me in disbelief...............Sounds are repeating like a cdplayer hanging......DRM...DRM...DRM...DRM....

MMMMMMM.....no way

No emersion no submersion.

Bye UBI soft, grow up.:nope:

Reece

02-26-10, 09:46 PM

No, because i can't confirm if its genuine or not. ( I don't click on shady D/L's for software of dubious origins - period.) My gut tells me its fake, i can't believe it would be cracked so damn fast. You want details find them and decide for yourself.A crack I assume, since the game isn't released (not that I know of) I'd say it was a fake for sure! Would take atleast a month to reverse engineer an app like SH5, or am I way off base!:hmmm:

Monster Magnet Jr

02-27-10, 01:20 AM

I own just about every submarine game since Silent Service.

But..
There is no way I will purchase SH5, or any other game for that matter, with DRM.

The Enigma

02-27-10, 05:11 AM

After reading the first experiences from early adapters, nothing has changed in my opinion.
I'm not going to buy this game while this form of DRM is (illegally) installed on my PC.

tonschk

02-27-10, 05:28 AM

.

:woot: Just a few day :DL , :up:I cant wait to buy Silent Hunter 5 :yeah: , The next week end Silent Hunter 5 :rock: will be already installed on my PC :up:, I cant WAAAAAAiiii T :rock:,

.

The Enigma

02-27-10, 05:35 AM

.

:woot: Just a few day :DL , :up:I cant wait to buy Silent Hunter 5 :yeah: , The next week end Silent Hunter 5 :rock: will be already installed on my PC :up:, I cant WAAAAAAIT :rock:,
.
And after having it installed, your pc isn't any longer your PC anymore.

Good luck:rotfl2:

Valantine

03-05-10, 02:32 PM

Saw SH5 in GAME (Uk computer game chain store) today on my way home from workL thought WOW I want to get it....BUT since I've not been around on Subsim.com following the development of it due to other commitments I'll go home tonight and have a read through the forums and see if it's unfiinished like sh3 and 4 and low betide I find that this is the situation!?!

Thanks UBI, great way to alienate your customers and stop us wanting to buy your games! See this, that is THIRTY POUNDS STERLING that will be staying in my pocket and a fan of ubisoft games staying away from this draconian bull schmidt!

There is something wrong with the world when a company doesn't actually WANT to sell it's games to it's customers unless they agree to finance a constantly up and stable internet connection and are happy for UBI to have a constantly link to their primarily single player orientated game: hell even Steam can be put in offline mode, so can EA Launcher, so can Rockstar online, so can GSC online....... I see a pattern here that Ubi mustn't have seen.

By all means I am happy to validate my bought copy of the game online, but to force me to stay connected to the net when I play it and then if my net goes down no longer be able to play is pure stupidity: way to go Ubi - great job licking the windows clean, just next time try not to eat sh*t whilst you do it!!!!

roadhogg

03-05-10, 02:57 PM

Like many others, i won't buy it until they release the other half of it, ( the rest of the U-boats and the rest of the war), AND, remove the always online requirement (DRM i think it's known as).

I also think that had Ubisoft instructed their devs to make a patch to fix the game save bug in SH3, plus a number rof other issues that became known, the devs would have done so.

The fact that no patch was ever made shows me that Ubisoft are devoid of any morale conscience with regard to releasing a product that can be described as "fit for purpose", and what i've seen in the posts so far of SH5 does nothing to dispel that belief.

I just wish i could say different.

valrond

03-06-10, 05:39 PM

It's a shame that Ubisoft has taken this road. I own most Ubisoft games than any other company, as I like most of their PC games, and they are quite cheap in Spain (20€ just released, and there are many offers later).

Of course, I own SH3 & 4, and the SH4 mission pack, bought at release, but I'm not buying any Ubisoft games while they have that DRM.

BTW, that DRM is, as all of them, not effective. I just checked in a site and there is already a crack for the game.

I'm not condoning piracy, I'm not going to play the game, I just want to say how absurd is to put such a terrible hassle in the paying customer while the pirate has no hassles at all.

remowilliams

03-06-10, 05:43 PM

Turns out DRM did effect my purchase. As in I couldn't play my purchased game because of DRM server trouble today...

Nordmann

03-06-10, 05:50 PM

Turns out DRM did effect my purchase. As in I couldn't play my purchased game because of DRM server trouble today...

I knew that would happen, hence why I have avoided purchasing. It's not just the user's net which will determine how and when you play, but Ubi's servers. Damn, I wouldn't mind if it was an online game, but it's single-player for goodness sake! I'll buy it if Ubi resolve this mess, otherwise my money goes elsewhere (already has as a matter of fact).

That doesn't mean I don't like the game, I like what I have seen, but unfortunately the OSP is a real breaker. As evidenced by the downtimes we are already seeing, my distrust of such a system is further heightened.

Marka Ragnos

03-06-10, 06:10 PM

They invest in this "Satan DRM" and i know atleast a dozen people who will never buy this game because of it.

So there must be alot more right?

I hope they compare the sales with silent hunter 3 and 4 and while there are illegal copies available of those games they must have made enough money to continue with silent hunter 5 right?

I stated earlier that i bought a new computer for silent hunter 5 and i've seen some awesome screenshots and videos.

Had it in my hands in the store and seen it on steam and well.... still playing silent hunter 4.

Thank you Ubisoft for ruining my favorite game :down:

Nordmann

03-06-10, 06:14 PM

So there must be alot more right?

If people other than SS members know about it, and disagree with it, then yes, there probably are quite a few who will not be buying the game. Ubisoft will of course blame someone or something else, other than their own business strategy. That, or they will clam up, and refuse to comment.

tonschk

03-06-10, 07:12 PM

Already installed :up: Silent Hunter 5 game , :woot: SH5 is AMAZING :yeah:, Really Beautyful SH5 game , I am thinking now is time to delete/uninstall Silent Hunter 4 ( SH4 = too many many bugs ) , I will keep Silent Hunter 3 + GWX3 because GWX added many very realistic details to the game , I am 100% sure that Silent Hunter 5 plus GWX5 :rock:will become the most Fantastic Master piece of the Silent Hunter series :rock:

NefariousKoel

03-07-10, 04:46 AM

I haven't visited here in awhile and the SH5 release caught me a bit by surprise.

Even more surprising was the DRM. Unfortunately, it will be off my list until I can pay for a game I fully own. :nope:

salac_78

03-07-10, 05:33 AM

So This Is How Liberty Dies...With Thunderous Applause http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQDTXYs5kDg&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-sUiJunJJw&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LsmstEKdhE

GerritJ9

03-07-10, 03:42 PM

Last Thursday I entered a store that had two copies of SH5 in stock, picked up one, went to the counter and asked the guy behind it what the little message on the box about "constant internet connection required" meant. After he had explained, I told him "No sale, I won't accept such a system" and left the store. I didn't intend to buy it anyway, but hopefully the message will be passed on i.e. that a possible sale was lost thanks to that idiocy. I still haven't forgiven UBI for their IL2 4.05m + Boonty Box datamining fiasco so I will never buy any of their stuff with such a lunatic requirement (nor anybody else's for that matter), even if they do remove it later on- which I very much doubt.

tonyeh

03-08-10, 02:25 AM

No sale here either.

peterloo

03-08-10, 06:35 AM

I haven't visited here for a while, and I am surprised how "fast" the development team worked. :down:

Rather than spending time developing such draconian systems and compell possible buyers to download cracks and workarounds, why can't Ubisoft spend more time to complete the game and fix all sorts of bugs?

Don't give excuses like bring the career to climax (May 43) and then end it is the best treatment to it available. We have played and enjoyed ourselves in the late war scenarios also.

Or you may spend the time to work on new features. AI torpedoes? Enemy submarines? Rockets? Fidoes? realistic hunter killer task forces? Huff-Duff positioning system? I would be happy if you got all these, something that brings more realism to the game.

If Ubi don't drop this system in a patch, and make all the features available for offline playing, i don't see any reason to purchase the game.

quietguy52

03-08-10, 09:23 AM

I won't spend money on this...

Spartan

03-08-10, 10:34 AM

I stopped playing SH because of Ubi and its DRM policy. I passed on four and it looks like I'll pass on five.

I'm glad to see the new system has blown up on it! I hope Ubi gets out of the PC game business and gives SH to a company that respects its customers.

Drednots

03-08-10, 10:49 AM

I caved and bought it out of curiosity. :damn: At first I was quite annoyed with new UI and controls but getting used it and enjoying it so far. I consider it an incomplete game with huge potential. Am I sorry I bought it? No, only because I am optimistic about the "potential". I am not going to tell anyone it is polished enough to buy that is for each to judge on their own. If the devs continue to patch more content in and support the game along with modders then we have something worth waiting for - for those that are waiting...

thyro

03-08-10, 10:55 AM

Well another long time Subsim fan with a big :down: at SH5 and that ONLINE a MUST IDIOCRACY.

I'll keep on SH3 and SH4 because are good anyway.

I'm sorry but don't want my laptop always connect to internet in order to play a game. For me is simple... I prefer not to play rather than waste my money in a half backed product that requires such connection dependency.

I'm all for anti-piracy but UBI has done a step too far and alianeted me and most possible other players that feel the same. Forcing such idiocracy rules on mass customers just to combat the few minority deem as pirates.

my big NO UBI PURCHASE

to SH5 or any other game under these forced terms.

Have online checkings from times to times but not as requirement to play a game, and even if the connectivity is lost the game quits in the next saved game (or even I might be wrong here) so its a no go since my internent is prone to disconnects just one more reason not to buy such game.

Thyro

maxplay

03-21-10, 07:09 PM

I feel sorry for you who don't buy this game. It is a shame that you are getting out of a good line of games. i have this game and a O.K. then bad then worse net but the DSM has not stoped me yet!(only problem i have is lagging.) by all means better then SH3(missed Sh4 but hear it was bad)
Its like how they put laws on guns, so criminals dont(or less likely to) abouse it.
NOTE:IT CAN BE BETTER BY MAKING AN OFFLINE ABITLEY TO IT LIKE COMPANY OF HEROES(WHEN OFFLINE YOU NEED YOUR DISK TO LOG ON TO YOUR ACOUNT)
SO OFFLINE CAN HAPPEN!!!(I have not heard of prirets for this game, but i have not gone looking. but all and all good game if i could go back in time i would still buy it like lot of "CRAP" games i have(DSM=work in progress)

Vipper

03-21-10, 08:29 PM

Absolutely it does affect! I want own a thing i do buy, that's first. And second is that i share my connection and quiet often it is unstable and slow.

And third is that i want play it when internet connection drops and i'm bored or i don't have internet at all by some reasons.

And Think! Its now 10 years in future and you have a game you cannot never play cause ubi does not support it anymore and servers are history. LOL, a temporary game that it is destined to become a brick...

I hope not!

----

At this moment this game is raw cake anyway...

Spartan

03-21-10, 09:37 PM

I truly hope Ubi sells the SH rights to another company. :yep:

Shoot I keep waiting for Neal to venture into the subsim making business. :yeah:

Members of the community could kick in for dev costs as share holders. When finished, Stardock, Paradox, Steam and two others (names elude me right now) could distribute the title.

We surely have the experts here and contacts with dev studios. Heck he could even use the Romanian one that worked on the franchise already if the engine could be licensed or maybe get the rights directly from Ubi for usage of the name and existing property. I would think Neal has 5013c status already - food for thought...

maxplay

03-22-10, 03:07 PM

If they sell out it will come to a total different game that you will not know. Why? different makers with different views look at call of duty that is split and it is now two games on one title! W@W has little the same with MW2. if they sell out it might become a online 2+ player only game. will you be happy then. Or like other TOTAL CRAP subsim games. :dead: if they get an offline mod it will work. they gust need to see that the easy way or the hard way.(so far the hard way but if people say GET AN OFFLINE MOD they might update the sever. the game is still in the first year of sales, let them see that it dose not work and they will fix it or die!

quietguy52

03-22-10, 03:13 PM

I wonder if UBI is perusing this thread? If so, hope they're making note of all the complaints!

Cavell

03-22-10, 03:17 PM

I wonder if UBI is perusing this thread? If so, hope they're making note of all the complaints!

I doubt it. They're probably having a giggle over the "hold-out" thread, with a bunch of guys going, "Yeah, man, DRM sucks! Stay strong!" and then two hours later posting, "Well, I caved in and bought it."

Bilge_Rat

03-22-10, 03:21 PM

I wonder if UBI is perusing this thread? If so, hope they're making note of all the complaints!

If it was on a Ubi forum rather than Subsim, they would be more likely to notice it, but logic is not the strong suit of the anti-DRM crowd...:salute:

Nordmann

03-22-10, 03:21 PM

I doubt it. They're probably having a giggle over the "hold-out" thread, with a bunch of guys going, "Yeah, man, DRM sucks! Stay strong!" and then two hours later posting, "Well, I caved in and bought it."

Some, but not all.

Sailor Steve

03-22-10, 03:36 PM

If it was on a Ubi forum rather than Subsim, they would be more likely to notice it, but logic is not the strong suit of the anti-DRM crowd...:salute:
No, if it was on the UBI forum it would more likely be deleted. And please explain exactly how logic is not my strong suit, since I'm one of the ones who is refusing to buy it.

Cavell

03-22-10, 03:45 PM

If it was on a Ubi forum rather than Subsim, they would be more likely to notice it, but logic is not the strong suit of the anti-DRM crowd...:salute:

You've got a point. Man, if only there weren't this vorpal barrier preventing people from posting to two sites at once.

Oh wait.

Fincuan

03-22-10, 03:49 PM

Still holding off, and all the post-release news have only made the decision easier. When the price of the game drops below 10€ I might consider getting it even if DRM is still in, but certainly not before that.

Bilge_Rat

03-22-10, 04:05 PM

No, if it was on the UBI forum it would more likely be deleted. And please explain exactly how logic is not my strong suit, since I'm one of the ones who is refusing to buy it.

I very much doubt Ubi is even aware of the existence of Subsim or would even care what is posted here. The only thing Ubi cares about are the sales of SH5 and AC2, what info is sent to them directly or perhaps what shows up on their forums.

This is the Subsim SH5 forum. Supposedly a forum for players of SH5 to discuss issues with SH5, tips on how to play SH5, to exchange info about SH5, etc., etc.,

Instead it has been taken over by posters who 1) do not own and have never played SH5, but will freely give out their opinion about how broken and unplayable it is, and/or 2) who want to protest against the DRM scheme.

How many times must we see the same posts over and over and over again. No one here is in favour of DRM. We all want DRM to be removed. We get it!!!

But if you want to send a message, this is not the place, UBI is not listening. All you are doing is pissing off the rest of the subsim "community".

Tell me where is the logic in that, because I can't see it.

Fincuan

03-22-10, 04:16 PM

Following that logic we could immediately drop all discussions on bugs and patches("list to fix"), Ubi doesn't see them here afterall. We could also immediately drop requests for better dev tools or fixes for the existing ones and the SH3 forum's "Petition for SDK", they won't get any attention here.

I guess we can also start convincing the devs who regularily read the forum that they're not actually here. :D

Nordmann

03-22-10, 04:19 PM

Bilge_Rat

03-22-10, 04:24 PM

Spartan

03-22-10, 04:26 PM

If it was on a Ubi forum rather than Subsim, they would be more likely to notice it, but logic is not the strong suit of the anti-DRM crowd...:salute:
Funny that. :har:

Logic is surely the weakest skill of the pro DRM crowd. After all you are buying - oops! renting a product - oops! a license for something defective by design for a premium and one that almost always does not perform as expected and nearly always cost more money for enhancements and functionality often a long time in waiting; seems to me to be a racket. :hmmm:

Cavell

03-22-10, 04:27 PM

but why can't there be a balance?

why the "scorched earth" policy?

why does anyone who posts something positive about SH5 have to be immediately hit by a 2x4?

In six months, Ubi will have moved on to another project and will have completely forgotten about SH5, but we will still all be here.

This isn't the Jets and the Sharks. People who like the game aren't being run out of town by an angry mob. The issue isn't with folks like yourself who enjoy the game, and I honestly haven't seen anyone make the argument that it is.

Edit: I immediately have to take that back, of course, in light of the post that got in before mine, but still..."logic is not the strong suit of the anti DRM crowd" isn't exactly conciliatory, either. After all, it's far more logical to expect to get a result on the DRM issue by withholding cash from Ubisoft, rather than giving it to them and hoping they listen as they laugh their way to the bank in preparation for that new project in six months that will cause them to forget about SH5.

Sailor Steve

03-22-10, 05:28 PM

but logic is not the strong suit of the anti-DRM crowd...
why does anyone who posts something positive about SH5 have to be immediately hit by a 2x4?
You're joking, right?

If not, then I'll say the same thing I said to Trenken, and the same thing I said to MattDizzle.

It's perfectly okay to be for something, and it's perfectly okay to be against something. This thread was started well over a month before the game was released, with a simple question. Some opinions were stronger than others, but that's always to be expected. The only two(?) people to start pro-DRM threads immediately called any and all anti-DRM posters "whiners" and "crybabies". Then they both(?) retreated into the stance that they were being attacked for simply stating an opinion of the game.

I fully disagree with the the children who slam those who bought the game as "suckers" or "supporting the evil". Yes, I know I seem to have done just that a couple of posts up, but my quibble was with giving them the money and then claiming to refuse to support it after the fact by not playing it, not with the actual purchase itself. I'll joke with those who said they wouldn't but then did anyway, but I won't demean them. We are all free to choose for ourselves.

And it's the same here. Not very many are attacking those who "say something positive". In fact you won't find any of that in the threads about the actual gameplay. But when you come to the thread by and for people who are determined to oppose what we see as an oppressive measure by a corporation against its best customers and belittle us with "but logic is not the strong suit of the anti-DRM crowd", you can't turn around and complain that you've been hit with a 2x4 for "saying something positive about SH5".

janh

03-22-10, 08:30 PM

...but logic is not the strong suit of the anti-DRM crowd...

Well, I'd call that an apparent fail of your logic -- by a circular argument.
Don't generalize, and be respectful, mature and polite -- that works pretty well. You really wouldn't want to question the logic capabilities of a person that is specialized on quantum theory and theoretical chemistry and is a faculty member of a very famous US institution in Cambridge, MA -- I hope that is convincing enough.

And I can tell you that I strongly oppose this DRM, but not only because it doesn't make logical sense to be permanently connected in single player mode. However, I am a person of strong integrity and little tolerance towards such measures.

Thus far subsim enabled us to discuss our worries in regard to DRM with other community members, and I think this discussion -- so heated at times, and very childish at others -- was quite constructive. Though I do not agree with some things said against this DRM, or SHV, nor with pirating activities, I generally value my customer rights as highly as the reasoning of Ubi to protect its creative property. But this time they simply did not reach a balance.

Whether our critique here will be heard is a different question, but it appears that subsim is read by other journalists that cite this discussion. And subsim is read by at least one of the Ubisoft Romania developers. So there clearly is a chance that the people here with a stronger understanding of their own rights as customers may be heard and may contribute to making a difference. That logic should be pretty clear.

Bilge_Rat

03-22-10, 08:57 PM

. You really wouldn't want to question the logic capabilities of a person that is specialized on quantum theory and theoretical chemistry and is a faculty member of a very famous US institution in Cambridge, MA -- I hope that is convincing enough.

Oh please Janh, I am sure you mean well, but I have as many degrees as you and frankly, your qualifications do not impress me in this matter.

You do realize we are talking about a computer game here? a $50 piece of entertainment software? Probably less than you pay to fill up your car with gas every week?

Perhaps if the anti-DRM lobby would keep that in perspective, there would be less tension and heated words being hurled back and forth.

However, if we could agree on some house rules, say keep the DRM threads and the gameplay discussion threads separate, I am sure we would all get along just fine.

kylania

03-22-10, 09:19 PM

You do realize we are talking about a computer game here? a $50 piece of entertainment software? Probably less than you pay to fill up your car with gas every week?

Perhaps if the anti-DRM lobby would keep that in perspective, there would be less tension and heated words being hurled back and forth.

$50 is a LOT. Especially when you consider that you're getting an epic amount LESS for your $50. $30 used to get you a nice box, a HEFTY manual that actually explained things in the game, cloth maps or at least paper ones, extra features and a game you could play anywhere you wanted to.

Now, $50 rents you an incomplete bug fest. Just read that EA wants to start charging $10-$15 for "pre-release DLC", essentially big game demos, now along with their $50-$60 for a game. Which of course you'll download at that price and not get the nice box and manual and VALUE for your money.

The point isn't that $50 is a pittance for someone with multiple degrees and what not, the point is that $50 + DRM for FAR LESS than we've ever had before is increasing highway robbery and total lack of value for whatever amount of money we spend.

Onkel Neal

03-22-10, 09:41 PM

This is the Subsim SH5 forum. Supposedly a forum for players of SH5 to discuss issues with SH5, tips on how to play SH5, to exchange info about SH5, etc., etc.,

Instead it has been taken over by posters who 1) do not own and have never played SH5, but will freely give out their opinion about how broken and unplayable it is, and/or 2) who want to protest against the DRM scheme.

How many times must we see the same posts over and over and over again. No one here is in favour of DRM. We all want DRM to be removed. We get it!!!

I agree. Recess is over, it's time to get serious about our SH5 discussions. For 6 weeks people have had free reign to rant and beat their breasts. One would think those who have decided not to join in the game, would move on to things they are interested in. I'm getting tired of all the Bad Post Reports about "whiners" and "griefers" (their words). We will be moving fresh posts from complainers who do not have the game into a single thread.

SH5: has bugs, released too early, has online DRM, and may not see another patch. Ok, now, anyone who is finding it worth their time to play, all aboard.

Don't forget, unless you have bought the game, and love it unquestioningly, then you have no opinion. By the logic displayed on here in any case.
No, you're wrong. You can buy the game and simply like it and tolerate the flaws, but if you don't have the game, and you don't intend on getting the game, and you have made your point, then what else interests you here?

And don't label people "pro-DRM", that's inaccurate. I'm pro-Silent Hunter. Pro-sub games. DRM is an annoyance. No one is pro-DRM.

Reaves

03-22-10, 10:21 PM

I agree. Recess is over, it's time to get serious about our SH5 discussions. For 6 weeks people have had free reign to rant and beat their breasts. One would think those who have decided not to join in the game, would move on to things they are interested in. I'm getting tired of all the Bad Post Reports about "whiners" and "griefers" (their words). We will be moving fresh posts from complainers who do not have the game into a single thread.

SH5: has bugs, released too early, has online DRM, and may not see another patch. Ok, now, anyone who is finding it worth their time to play, all aboard.

No, you're wrong. You can buy the game and simply like it and tolerate the flaws, but if you don't have the game, and you don't intend on getting the game, and you have made your point, then what else interests you here?

And don't label people "pro-DRM", that's inaccurate. I'm pro-Silent Hunter. Pro-sub games. DRM is an annoyance. No one is pro-DRM.

Can you also please clean/restart the easter egg sticky. Sticky's of all things should have strict moderation.

Méo

03-22-10, 10:59 PM

$50 is a LOT.

I'm always amazed when I see comments like this.

1) 16 years ago, prices for a SNES game were around 80$ and even 90$ in some cases (at least in Canada). Inflation wise, today it would be a LOT more. That said, I would have prefer paying 80$ for a more finished game.

2) Personally (for something I expect to play for few hundred hours in few years), if 50$ was a LOT, I would think about spending time in a second job and and spending time earning money instead of spending time here and spending time playing a game, but we all have different conceptions...

And don't label people "pro-DRM", that's inaccurate. No one is pro-DRM.

Exactly!

I would have prefer the ''good old days'' protection, but I don't really mind. I never experienced any problem with OSP so far.

----

Edit: Just to be clear, no offence was intended in this post.

Onkel Neal

03-22-10, 11:01 PM

Can you also please clean/restart the easter egg sticky. Sticky's of all things should have strict moderation.

True. Trying to avoid too much moderation.

And let me rephrase my comments in the form of a request, can we move on with normal discussion, people? :ping:

mookiemookie

03-22-10, 11:28 PM

Onkel Neal

03-22-10, 11:41 PM

Lol, yeah. :shucks:

THE_MASK

03-22-10, 11:50 PM

I was annoyed at DRM when it was announced . Would i rather play without the DRM , yes . Do i like playing SH5 , yes . So i guess in the end DRM didnt affect my purchase this time .

Cavell

03-23-10, 03:49 AM

NefariousKoel

03-23-10, 04:22 AM

I'm getting tired of all the Bad Post Reports about "whiners" and "griefers" (their words). We will be moving fresh posts from complainers who do not have the game into a single thread.

So...

Is this the quarantine thread for us complainers to do our thing or will there be a newly designated one? :arrgh!:

vivieehk

03-23-10, 04:45 AM

sigh~
it is a disaster for me, as i am working in China.
the network is not that fine and more important is i need to travel around all the time. It is not possible to have internet anywhere.

it is too ridicious for me to spend that much, but cannot get into the game when i want to.....:down:

i think it maybe the last time i purchase UBI game unless they delete the DRM system

Bilge_Rat

03-23-10, 05:51 AM

I fully agree, it's only a $50 game.

good, we are all in agreement, now let's move on.

Bilge_Rat

03-23-10, 05:54 AM

I agree. Recess is over, it's time to get serious about our SH5 discussions. For 6 weeks people have had free reign to rant and beat their breasts. One would think those who have decided not to join in the game, would move on to things they are interested in. I'm getting tired of all the Bad Post Reports about "whiners" and "griefers" (their words). We will be moving fresh posts from complainers who do not have the game into a single thread.

SH5: has bugs, released too early, has online DRM, and may not see another patch. Ok, now, anyone who is finding it worth their time to play, all aboard.

Originally Posted by Nordmann http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/haylazblue/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1328779#post1328779)
Don't forget, unless you have bought the game, and love it unquestioningly, then you have no opinion. By the logic displayed on here in any case.

No, you're wrong. You can buy the game and simply like it and tolerate the flaws, but if you don't have the game, and you don't intend on getting the game, and you have made your point, then what else interests you here?

And don't label people "pro-DRM", that's inaccurate. I'm pro-Silent Hunter. Pro-sub games. DRM is an annoyance. No one is pro-DRM.

:sign_yeah::agree:

could not have said it better myself.:up:

janh

03-23-10, 09:06 AM

However, if we could agree on some house rules, say keep the DRM threads and the gameplay discussion threads separate, I am sure we would all get along just fine.

I guess for me this is not actually about a specific example, but about principle. I guess I have seen many games and trends in entertainment industry and that is what makes me worry. If there won't be another SH for me, fine, I am sure another company will provide something much better at some point in the future -- as usual. But the general outlook is a little dark: what is next?

But I agree with you that the DRM issues should remain in their own threads, and not spread intentionally. As I have said in various posts recently, the message is out now and if other customers vote with the wallet too, then all that's left is waiting for a reaction from Ubisoft. If it comes -- and that then rather be due to the much larger ACII community than SHV, but still every tiny bit can make a difference.

The sad thing is, that I come here every day to read something exciting about the game itself, something that would make it stand out from SHIII and GWX. A campaign walkrhough with features that haven't ever been seen before, but hmmmh, not yet. Or somebody finally reporting an awesome wolfpack attack, but, hmmh, not yet. But I'll keep watching, and see what the future will bring. I assume big new will make it here quickly.

Sailor Steve

03-23-10, 09:14 AM

However, if we could agree on some house rules, say keep the DRM threads and the gameplay discussion threads separate, I am sure we would all get along just fine.
House rules like not insulting people? That would be a good start. And exactly how many of the gameplay threads have been invaded? And how many of the anti-DRM threads have you joined just to attack those people?

Bilge_Rat

03-23-10, 09:22 AM

House rules like not insulting people? That would be a good start. And exactly how many of the gameplay threads have been invaded? And how many of the anti-DRM threads have you joined just to attack those people?

I stand 100% behind my opinion.

Why don't you actually play a game instead of hanging out in a forum of a game you don't own. It might do you some good.

Fincuan

03-23-10, 09:28 AM

If this thread is so much of a nuisance to some folks why do you even read it, let alone post in it? It's not like the thread title isn't an indication of what the thread contains. Also nowhere have I seen a rule about having to own the game to be allowed to post in SH5 forums. To some it seems to be a huge crime to hang out on the forums of a game you're interested in but which you don't own yet.

The General

03-23-10, 09:34 AM

To any of you wo have not yet purchased your copy of SH5, I say this:

Here's a new policy: Having actually played SH5 since release, I can categorically say that the DRM is a non-issue. To complain about Digital Rights Management is to complain that you're not allowed to make copies of Films/Movies and just hand 'em out to your friends and family at Christmas. DRM is a form of Copyrighting, copyrighting has been around for a long time and isn't going anywhere soon. I suggest all you so-called Subsim fans, swallow your pride and give SH5 a try. It is absolutely incredible (with Mods)! The most immersive Subsim there has ever been, and with the forthcoming Patch, should be incredible witout the Mods. SH3 was very, very good (with Mods), SH5 is in another league. Sorry to be so blunt, but when you've played it for a while, you'll see what I mean.

One last thing, I want all of you who haven't got your copy of SH5 yet to wait until after Patch 1.2 has come out. Then, when you've played it a while and realised what a pheomenal achievement in programming it is, I want you all to write letters of apology to Ubisoft and The Devs for any disparaging remarks you may have made in the past. May God have mercy on your souls!!

:|\\

quietguy52

03-23-10, 09:39 AM

Kapitanleutnant

03-23-10, 09:42 AM

The General is a ****ing terrible poster, just stick him on your ignore list and hope against hope that he gets hit by a bus.

The General

03-23-10, 09:45 AM

You're sitting in a plane at 32,000 feet enroute from Texas to Hawaii.. we're talking about ten hours worth of travel, and you would like to play the subsim on your laptop. ALAS!! No web access (wifi).. Sorry Charlie, no can play.

Which is why I'll stay with SHIV...

They (UBI) wanna protect their stuff... do it using another protocol or method.

Just MHO...Yeah, think of those thousands of poor Subsim fans, sitting in First-class on the way to Hawaii, not able to fire up their $5000 Laptops, capable of running SH5 as smooth as their trophy wife's bottom?

You make a helluva case, are you a Lawyer? :03:

RSColonel_131st

03-23-10, 09:57 AM

Wow, "The General" just made the first entry on my ignore list.

Jimbuna

03-23-10, 10:14 AM

I stand 100% behind my opinion.

Why don't you actually play a game instead of hanging out in a forum of a game you don't own. It might do you some good.

Nothing wrong with having an opinion, after all that is what freedom of speech and forum debate is all about.

Keeping a cool head during the debate should be of monumental importance and adhered to as much as possible.

SINK EM ALL!! http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

Sailor Steve

03-23-10, 10:19 AM

I stand 100% behind my opinion.

Why don't you actually play a game instead of hanging out in a forum of a game you don't own. It might do you some good.
You still haven't answered my original post. You accuse people of having faulty logic, and then claim you were attacked for saying you liked the game. You need to show exactly where this happened, or retract that "2x4" statement.

As for hanging out in a forum of a game I don't own, I stay here because I want to own it. I don't because UBI won't allow me to play it even if I spend the money.

The General

03-23-10, 10:21 AM

Wow, "The General" just made the first entry on my ignore list.Sheesh, it was only a joke! :timeout: I'm on so many people's Ignore List, I think I'm talkin' to myself half the time :03:

Bilge_Rat

03-23-10, 10:22 AM

You still haven't answered my original post. You accuse people of having faulty logic, and then claim you were attacked for saying you liked the game. You need to show exactly where this happened, or retract that "2x4" statement.

get over it SS, this debate is over, let's move on.

Sailor Steve

03-23-10, 10:28 AM

get over it SS, this debate is over, let's move on.
It was not a debate, it was an insult. It will stand forever. I'll leave it, and you, with that, if that's you "opinion".

Cavell

03-23-10, 11:17 AM

Yeah, think of those thousands of poor Subsim fans, sitting in First-class on the way to Hawaii, not able to fire up their $5000 Laptops, capable of running SH5 as smooth as their trophy wife's bottom?

You make a helluva case, are you a Lawyer? :03:

Alright, let's see what you can do with this one:

Deploying to Afghanistan.

Bring the funny on that one, por favor.

Barnes

03-23-10, 11:33 AM

Below is the message, and response I got from ubisoft reference DRM:

Recently you requested personal assistance from our online support
center. Below is a summary of your request and our response.

If this issue is not resolved to your satisfaction, you may reopen it
within the next 21 days.

Thank you for allowing us to be of service to you.

If your issue remains unresolved, you can update your question from
our support site. Click the following link or paste it into your web
browser.
http://ubisoft.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/ubisoft.cfg/php/enduser/cci/tologin.php?p_next_page=myq_upd.php&p_iid=1036769&p_created=1269220778

Subject
---------------------------------------------------------------
As you can tell by my user name, and amount of games I have registered that I...

Discussion Thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
Response (Jason) - 03/22/2010 05:29 PM
Matthew,

We appreciate you voicing your concerns about our new Online Services Platform that will be offered in Silent Hunter 5. We feel strongly that the platform will offer benefits to the player, in form of services such as unlimited installs and that these services justify the permanent online requirement. We truly feel that the vast majority of gamers will have a smooth and easy experience with this platform.

Auto-Response - 03/21/2010 09:19 PM
Title: Error: An Internet Connection is Required to Play This Game
Link: http://ubisoft.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/ubisoft.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=13320&p_created=1267804719

Title: Minimum Requirements for Silent Hunter 5: Battle of the Atlantic
Link: http://ubisoft.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/ubisoft.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=13228&p_created=1267034582

Title: What is the Ubisoft Game Launcher?
Link: http://ubisoft.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/ubisoft.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=13295&p_created=1267567547

Title: Silent Hunter 5: Battle of the Atlantic - Digital Manual
Link: http://ubisoft.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/ubisoft.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=13229&p_created=1267034985

Title: Gameplay Questions?
Link: http://ubisoft.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/ubisoft.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=13294&p_created=1267566033

Customer (Matthew xxxxx) - 03/21/2010 09:19 PM
As you can tell by my user name, and amount of games I have registered that I am a long standing supporter of Ubisoft products. Previously I have purchased Silent Hunter 2, 3, 4, as well as every Clancy title out there. As a member of the US Army, I continually deploy overseas. You may not believe it, but my Ubisoft games come with me to play in my limited down time.

You can imagine my dismay when I learned that I needed a constant internet connection in order to play Silent Hunter 5 because it uses DRM. Where the hell am I supposed to get a constant internet connection out in some remote outpost in Afghanistan?!?!?! As long as Ubisoft is using this type of technology to run there games, I can no longer support your company and the games you release. As a long standing loyal customer, I feel as if you have slapped every military service person in the face with this DRM nonsense.

Thanks for nothing!!

Matt

Cavell

03-23-10, 11:45 AM

Hey, they've clearly got a point. You might not be able to actually play the game...but you can install it as many times as you want! Now THAT is value.

It's not like I can install all my other games as many times as I want or anything.

NefariousKoel

03-23-10, 12:01 PM

janh

03-23-10, 03:10 PM

Matthew,
We appreciate you voicing your concerns about our new Online Services Platform that will be offered in Silent Hunter 5. We feel strongly that the platform will offer benefits to the player, in form of services such as unlimited installs and that these services justify the permanent online requirement. We truly feel that the vast majority of gamers will have a smooth and easy experience with this platform.

Wow, I don't think they even finished reading your original email...
There would be one thing that would make this "unlimited installs" valuable, but they will surely not offer that: Live-long availability of the download, and continuous support for adapting it to new operating systems or environments. I still fire up 10 year old games, or even on occasion something from C64 -- for good old times sake. If they ensure that I can do so with their products in 10, 15, 20 years from now on my newest PC, find, that would be nice. But it wouldn't be worth an extra cent to me.

However, they will not go to that degree of support, and without the "unlimited installs" are misleading -- unless they imply that their new games other wise would have been 1 install per $50 (which I doubt they'd do). And that presently means that my CDs and DVDs allow me to do exactly the same -- unlimited installs.

How stupid must Ubisoft consider their customers to be?????