The two main bones of contention

[TDK1044]

The two main bones of contention seem to be the fact that the game only offers the VII sub, and the fact that the game ends in 1943.

The second of those two is obviously modable based on Dan's answer to Neal in the interview....

Dan: In the game, the way the game will be launched, there won't be any way to be able to continue the campaign past 1943, but there is nothing stopping the modders from keep adding more content, which comes afterwards. There's no hardcore limit for how far you can play in the world, it's just how far OUR campaign goes.


Seeing what lurker was able to do with Silent Hunter IV 1.5, extending this game to 1945 must be more than doable with the modding talent we have here.

As for adding additional subs to the game, I would like for an experienced modder to tell us if this will be feasible or not.....if they know at this stage. Personally, I love the VII and I always choose that sub when available as an option. So, if we can extend the game to 1945 in a VII sub, I'm a happy camper. :)

[mookiemookie]

I'm sure adding campaign layers, ships, convoys, etc. through 1945 is not going to be the stumbling block, but rather it will be adding the late war technology. Will we be able to add in a schnorkel? If it works mechanically (i.e. indeed able to run the diesels underwater) how will it look? Will they be able to add the schnorkel tube to the 3-D model? Will it be animated and raise and lower?

What about hedgehogs? Or FOXER devices? Will those be easy enough to mod in?

[AVGWarhawk]

If it works mechanically (i.e. indeed able to run the diesels underwater) how will it look? Will they be able to add the schnorkel tube to the 3-D model? Will it be animated and raise and lower


Been around SH4 lately? :06:

[TDK1044]

Because my knowledge of modding can be comfortably written on a pinhead, I have no idea regarding adding additional subs.

It seems to me though that as the U Boat war in the Atlantic diminished in the latter years of the war, after May of 1943, that it shouldn't be too difficult to create campaign events for the latter years of the U Boat Atlantic war?

[mookiemookie]

Been around SH4 lately? :06:

Unfortunately, no. And like TDK said, my modding knowledge is very scant as well.

[Hitman]

but rather it will be adding the late war technology. Will we be able to add in a schnorkel? ...
What about hedgehogs? Or FOXER devices? Will those be easy enough to mod in?

At the present moment we know alost nothing about how SH5 will be modded, because we yet don't know what will be hardcoded and what not. But I'd like to highlight that if the game stops in May 1943 with the defeat of the uboats, then this is because the allies had by then enough technology to defeat them.

Despite all the things you hear about the wonderful allied technology like Hedgehogs and FIDOS, their use was not as important. It was the extension of centimetric radar to all escorts, and the heavy increase in the number of those escorting ships and patrol airplanes what killed the uboats. If an Uboat had not been killed while exiting the Biscay Bay with a FIDO, it would have been unable to attack a convoy because the radar equipped escorts would have detected him easily, and then would have felt as victim to a hunter killer support group called to finish him by the regular convoy escort. So the impact of that new technology is minimal.

All the technology that defeated the uboats will be in the game by May 1943, and that is good enough to play until 1945, even if you don't get hedgehogs (Which I think actually appeared earlier) and FIDOS.

[Mikhayl]

As far as I know/remember, the Schnorkel in SH4 was only possible because the code for it was left over from SH3. Also, it doesn't work properly, you can use the diesel engines under water but CO2 keeps accumulating in the boat so sooner or later you have to surface.

SH5 seems to have very different inners so it's probably moot, but assuming there's no "code ro*******" all this could be added (= schnorkel, weaponry etc). Same for new subs, the hints in the interviews sound positive towards that, but even then I think it would take a long long time to see any new playable sub with a quality level on par with the stock SH5 Type VII.

DLCs aren't a shameful solution, first argument is that they're made by a professional team with the best knowledge of the game engine and the best tools, and second is that they would be produced much much faster than if they're done by a handful of modders (which is approximately the number of people who can model stuff in such detail).

[Lanzfeld]

Also the Atlantic Gap was closed and there was Huff Duff.

[TDK1044]

At the present moment we know alost nothing about how SH5 will be modded, because we yet don't know what will be hardcoded and what not. But I'd like to highlight that if the game stops in May 1943 with the defeat of the uboats, then this is because the allies had by then enough technology to defeat them.

Despite all the things you hear about the wonderful allied technology like Hedgehogs and FIDOS, their use was not as important. It was the extension of centimetric radar to all escorts, and the heavy increase in the number of those escorting ships and patrol airplanes what killed the uboats. If an Uboat had not been killed while exiting the Biscay Bay with a FIDO, it would have been unable to attack a convoy because the radar equipped escorts would have detected him easily, and then would have felt as victim to a hunter killer support group called to finish him by the regular convoy escort. So the impact of that new technology is minimal.

All the technology that defeated the uboats will be in the game by May 1943, and that is good enough to play until 1945, even if you don't get hedgehogs (Which I think actually appeared earlier) and FIDOS.

Great post. :)

[simsurfer]

but there is nothing stopping the modders from keep adding more content, which comes afterwards. There's no hardcore limit for how far you can play in the world, it's just how far OUR campaign goes.
[/COLOR]

:)

Well, that makes me feel better. Taking it one day at a time.

[GoldenRivet]

GWX4... before project cancellation... had a stem to stern interior in the works for SH4, i dont know if that is still in the works or not.

i would say if the file structure is easier, SH5 should be able to mod in different playable units WITH interiors for the most part

[TDK1044]

GWX4... before project cancellation... had a stem to stern interior in the works for SH4, i dont know if that is still in the works or not.

i would say if the file structure is easier, SH5 should be able to mod in different playable units WITH interiors for the most part


:yeah:

[FIREWALL]

2 !!! ? SH5 has more issues than a Chevy Vega. :haha:

[Randomizer]

2 !!! ? SH5 has more issues than a Chevy Vega. :haha:

I was thinking more a Gremlin, regardless what you did to it, it still looked like half a car.

For those who might not remember when they stalked the highways and byways of North America see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMC_Gremlin

[Iron Budokan]

Been around SH4 lately? :06:

Bingo.

[FIREWALL]

Me hopes GWX4 will hang it's shingle back up. :up:

[JU_88]

Me hopes GWX4 will hang it's shingle back up. :up:


Nooooo more GWX..
SHV doesn't need 'GWX' it just needs good modders.
Its somebody elses turn anyway :D

I been thinking more about the 1943 & VIIC only thing...
Its dissapionting yes, but it doesnt have to make SHV a bad game. It just goes against what we have come to expect from the franchise.

Think of SHV as the U-boat version of 'B-17 the might 8th'.
Plus most of us here played SH3 in the 'happy times' with a bloody type 7 for the most part anyway.
And the realism nuts amongst us would surely either use SH3 commander for historical career length - or get sunk long before 1944 :haha:

LOL well, Im trying....

[JScones]

Think of SHV as the U-boat version of 'B-17 the might 8th'.
...
LOL well, Im trying....
You may wanna try again - in B-17 The Mighty 8th you could also fly the P-38, P-51, P-47, Bf-109, FW-190 or Me 262. :D

I understand your point though - I'm sure we've all bought study sims. Now, whilst it will be a change going from a survey sim like SH3 to study sim, if the devs pull it off and provide a study sim at the level of other study sims out there (in accuracy etc), then IMHO complaints about missing types will die away pretty quickly. If they don't, then...

[Lanzfeld]

JScones,

You KNOW that this will not be a study sim. You know it in your heart.

[JScones]

I know it in my head too. ;)

But who knows, SH5 may totally redefine the study sim and expand it to include "simulated modelled interiors but incorrect exteriors, controls, systems...". :D

[Reece]

Don't feed my paranoia guys!!:doh:

[karamazovnew]

In one of my first posts about SH5 I asked if we'd be able to write our own scripts and define new variables. The answer was pretty much NO. So modders will still have to rely on rerouting the original assets as they've done so far in SH3 and SH4. To me that is the biggest flaw of the game and it's most important missing feature. Game companies like Bethesda have managed to protect their games and yet allow for ample modification of the games.

Consider this simple example:
The deck watch can report the closest target with bearing and range. But the range is perfect so we usually just removed that info from the report. The config file didn't even hinted the variable which it used. If this was a normal programing environment and we could do our own scripts, we could just report an estimated range: EstimatedRange=Mod(NearestVisualRange + rand(2000)*(1-DeckCrewEfficiency),100) or something like that. The exact same goes for any feature of the game, we would be able to randomize and control everything. Direct access to any variable in the game would've been awesome.

[JScones]

How much do we know about the scripts? :hmmm: I vaguely remember reading something a while ago about being able to edit the (Python) scripts, but haven't heard anything since. Do we know what they will expose?

[THE_MASK]

There is one very important person we need for SH5 and that is
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
skwasjer .

[FIREWALL]

In one of my first posts about SH5 I asked if we'd be able to write our own scripts and define new variables. The answer was pretty much NO. So modders will still have to rely on rerouting the original assets as they've done so far in SH3 and SH4. To me that is the biggest flaw of the game and it's most important missing feature. Game companies like Bethesda have managed to protect their games and yet allow for ample modification of the games.

Consider this simple example:
The deck watch can report the closest target with bearing and range. But the range is perfect so we usually just removed that info from the report. The config file didn't even hinted the variable which it used. If this was a normal programing environment and we could do our own scripts, we could just report an estimated range: EstimatedRange=Mod(NearestVisualRange + rand(2000)*(1-DeckCrewEfficiency),100) or something like that. The exact same goes for any feature of the game, we would be able to randomize and control everything. Direct access to any variable in the game would've been awesome.

:up: I can see what you mean and understand it. :yep:

One major thing I haven't seen posted is how the Peri and Uzo will work in manual targeting.

Sh4 had a video on this.

[karamazovnew]

How much do we know about the scripts? :hmmm: I vaguely remember reading something a while ago about being able to edit the (Python) scripts, but haven't heard anything since. Do we know what they will expose?

I remember them saying that the Python usage will be limited and that you won't be able to edit/view any scripts. Maybe they've changed their mind.

There is one very important person we need for SH5 and that is
.......
skwasjer .

Even skwasjer was not able or not allowed to dig in the game as much as we'd like to. Without his editor, modding would be a LOT harder.

:up: I can see what you mean and understand it. :yep:

One major thing I haven't seen posted is how the Peri and Uzo will work in manual targeting.

Sh4 had a video on this.

Again, you only need to input the AOB once for a specific bearing, then the speed and the range. There are 3 possibilities:
- the old Notepad
- a stylized Weapon's Officer dialog box (most probable)
- actual TDC dials
What I'd like to know is if the TDC will feature the realistic "Calculate" button and delay. Judging from the Easy Difficulty setting interface, I think not. It will be similar to the one in SH3.

[JScones]

I remember them saying that the Python usage will be limited and that you won't be able to edit/view any scripts. Maybe they've changed their mind.
Just found the thread with the dev's comments... http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=155879

[TDK1044]

Lurker has said that he will wait until he actually has Silent Hunter V before deciding if he will mod it in a similar way that he did with OM in Silent Hunter IV 1.5.

Here's hoping......:DL

[Snestorm]

Wouldn't it be nice if UBI could turn out a product that didn't need modding?

"Modders can easily fix that" is a piss-poor cop-out for a defective product.

[Sgtmonkeynads]

http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/agree.gif
http://www.runemasterstudios.com/graemlins/images/thankyouthankyou.gif

[Mikhayl]

Wouldn't it be nice if UBI could turn out a product that didn't need modding?

"Modders can easily fix that" is a piss-poor cop-out for a defective product.

"Modders can easily fix that" because the devs made efforts to leave a fairly open game. What happens if upon install of SH you have one folder, one "SH5.exe" and 5 huge encrypted archives containing all the data?

[Sgtmonkeynads]

So when you buy a brand new car,and it doesn't have a passenger side door, but the salesman says "oh that can be fixed by someone besides us, not our problem" you ok with that?

[Mikhayl]

So when you buy a brand new car,and it doesn't have a passenger side door, but the salesman says "oh that can be fixed by someone besides us, not our problem" you ok with that?

I have a better analogy: If you buy a brand new convertible, do you complain to the salesman that there's no roof?

[Snestorm]

I have a better analogy: If you buy a brand new convertible, do you complain to the salesman that there's no roof?

I'd rather avoid buying it, until he proves that it does.

[Sgtmonkeynads]

If they gave me the impression it was supposed to have one in the first place....yes

[Mikhayl]

True, that was pretty poor marketing, but still, now that cat is out of the bag but you haven't yet shelled any money, so no harm done.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Wouldn't it be nice if UBI could turn out a product that didn't need modding?


Even if they did there is not a one size fit's all in this community as far as a finished product. As well people would still want to
mod it just out of boredom after awhile.

[karamazovnew]

Just found the thread with the dev's comments... http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=155879

It's funny that they allow us such great freedom for the interface... since nobody likes the original interface in SH5 :haha:. As then and just like you, I wonder how far the scripts will take us.