What can we really expect from SHV?

[TDK1044]

So once you strip away the usual rhetoric, what can we really expect from Silent Hunter V? We've now seen some 'in game' videos and screenshots. We've also seen an interview with Dan. I'm sure there's more to come.

I think a pattern is evolving that shows us that we can basically expect a graphically improved, bells and whistles version of Silent Hunter IV patched to 1.5, with the addition of the 'first person' to give a much better crew interraction.

Reading between the lines, I don't believe it will be a SIM, although I think that it will be very modable. I also don't believe it will be an Arcade Game. I believe it will be a video game that can be modded up by the usual suspects, or dumbed way down using the Options tab.

I think that Ubisoft are pinning their hopes on the casual gamers to increase sales with this version of the Silent Hunter series. That won't please many here, but if allowing the game to be dumbed down via 'Options' increases sales and guarantees the continuation of the franchise, then it's not an issue as long as the game is very modable for those of us seeking a more realistic experience.

Based on what I've seen, I like the look and feel of Silent Hunter V. I think the Devs have taken on board observations and some criticism from members here, and I think they have done their best to deliver the standard of game demanded here, while also giving their employer what it demands from the game.

My greatest wish is that it's finished when it's released. I was disappointed with both SHIII and SHIV in that regard. To have to patch a game within a month of its release in order to fix 'game critical' issues is laughable, and I really hope that Ubisoft doesn't take us down that road again.

So, as we all wait for March 2010, I have more hope for SHV than I ever did for SHIII or SHIV.

What do you guys think?

[urfisch]

ubi tries, as mentioned by themselves, to satisfy on one hand us, as the core community and on the other hand, the wide spread gamers out there. this is what we see, when looking at a strongly simplified interface in the last trailer on ubi-tv.

i think they wont have much success. the non-simmers are the target group of this game. cause they are a much larger group than we, as hardcore simmers. so we will have a game, that is much more for fun, than for feeling. when i read of a step-by-step dynamic campaign...i get a cold cripped up my spine.

all we can hope is, that ubi opens up enough possibbilities for us, to mod the game, we want to. AND, that we get a well styled gameplay...i am not really happy with all i see until now. but, what do we expect? they are a big gaming company, not the simmer-hq-developer.

i often thought, this game should have been developed further on by a group of this community, who lend some money and build up a small sim-gaming company, like ssi...in the 90s. then we would have a great game.

[GoldenRivet]

personally, i think the first person view issue is going to totally change the way the game is played.

instead of clicking dials or gauges we will now be interacting directly with officers who in turn will be relaying instructions to subordinates.

for those players who are used to playing almost all of the game from a map screen, or a periscope screen and hot keying from station to station... you're in for a major change to the experience.

while it is true... there are only so many ways to make a world war 2 subsim, or a combat flight sim or a boxing game etc.

the dev team has most likley - greatly changed the way players approach the game play, not only that major change has taken place, but we are likely to see a completely new weather engine (which was a major let down in SH3 and 4.

yes... at first glance it does look a lot like a graphics upgrade.

to the untrained eye.

however, i think SH5 is going to totally revolutionize the way submarine simulations are played and the way they are developed.

gone are the days of 2D interface screens.

gone are the days of complete limitation to one or two compartments or views.

My greatest wish is that it's finished when it's released. I was disappointed with both SHIII and SHIV in that regard. To have to patch a game within a month of its release in order to fix 'game critical' issues is laughable, and I really hope that Ubisoft doesn't take us down that road again.

in this regard i would encourage you to prepare yet again for disappointment.

no game or program is ever released "perfect" on the first try... the very thought that such a thing is possible is completely rediculous.

the game WILL require patching, updating and modding to meet the taste of individual players.

[TDK1044]

no game or program is ever released "perfect" on the first try... the very thought that such a thing is possible is completely rediculous.

the game WILL require patching, updating and modding to meet the taste of individual players.

Nobody expects perfect. Silent Hunter IV was released in an unfinished state for one reason only....insufficient development time. The Devs were having to patch things that could and should have been implemented prior to release.

There is a big difference in patching to tweak and enhance, and patching to fix basic errors. The latter is unacceptable.

[Webster]

i think ubi is barking up the wrong tree here, the reason they dont have sales to the casual gamers is casual gamers want fps fast action with lots of things going on and a subsim by its very definition is a dramatic slow pased strategy game so your not going to sell an underwater chess game to a bunch of playstation shooter geeks, its just never going to happen.

i see sh5 as a "possible" major flop that could and very likely "will" put an end to the continuation of the silent hunter franchise.

"if" they intend to make sh5 a non subsim game then its a bad choice that could and i suspect "will" blow up in their face and cause major financial losses to the company.

"silent hunter the video game" wont sell to the "fps gamers crowd" or the true "subsim" crowd that may not all want the same level of realism but they do want it based on realism.

in trying to appeal to both markets i fear they will end up with something that neither one wants to buy.

i would have rather see them do a sh3 expansion that adds the sh4 grafics and a new game engine instead.

[TDK1044]

That is certainly the risk they run, WEBSTER. Only time will tell if they have it right. :)

[SteamWake]

Wow what a bunch of pessimists...

I just hope they dont subcomb to pressure to "Get the product on the shelf" even though it is not finished like what happened to SH4.

[GoldenRivet]

Nobody expects perfect. Silent Hunter IV was released in an unfinished state for one reason only....insufficient development time. The Devs were having to patch things that could and should have been implemented prior to release.

There is a big difference in patching to tweak and enhance, and patching to fix basic errors. The latter is unacceptable.

Agreed.

for example the "A" key crash was the very reason i shelved SH4 on DAY ONE.

as someone with beta testing experience (limited though it may be) i can assure you that testing a game is not fun... it is strictly business and it is work.

though i agree that some of the more basic issues with SH4 should have been caught by even the most novice kindergartner - it is impossible to find and fix EVERY issue.

even if you spend an entire year in testing.

as far as being pessimistic... i think we are being realistic.

Subsims exist for a very niche market.

always have and always will exist to fill this very specific market segment. I dont know that ubi is trying to dumb down SH5 so that joe blow off the street would pluck it off the shelf and give it a try... but if they are this could be a critical mistake.

i say "critical mistake" because of one major thing...

making a game scalable in its difficulty so that it can appeal to a brain dead idiot all the way up to a subnautical super genious and all points in between is VERY DIFFICULT to do without completely ruining game play experience for one or another group of fans.

if not implemented correctly - this shot at making the game marketable to "all" could end the franchise as it can alienate the core community which is the very reason games like this should exist in the first place.

[Webster]

Wow what a bunch of pessimists...

I just hope they dont subcomb to pressure to "Get the product on the shelf" even though it is not finished like what happened to SH4.

im keeping an open mind but looking at everything they have said and what i have seen is why i feel the way i do.

i must say being overly possative is just as silly as being overly negative so you cant assume all roses and sunshine either until you see what we get.

[TDK1044]

I agree with you totally, Golden Rivet.

[TDK1044]

Wow what a bunch of pessimists...

I just hope they dont subcomb to pressure to "Get the product on the shelf" even though it is not finished like what happened to SH4.

I'm not pessimistic, SteamWake, I'm actually guardedly optimistic. I think SHV will be a lot of fun, but I think it will offer more dumbing down options than previous versions. Some will refer to this as the game becoming an Arcade Game. To me, it will be a game that can be modded up or dumbed down to individual preference and to a greater degree than previous versions.

[Ritmeister]

Reading between the lines, I don't believe it will be a SIM, although I think that it will be very modable. I also don't believe it will be an Arcade Game. I believe it will be a video game that can be modded up by the usual suspects, or dumbed way down using the Options tab.

I think that Ubisoft are pinning their hopes on the casual gamers to increase sales with this version of the Silent Hunter series. That won't please many here, but if allowing the game to be dumbed down via 'Options' increases sales and guarantees the continuation of the franchise, then it's not an issue as long as the game is very modable for those of us seeking a more realistic experience.

What do you guys think?

Excellent analysis IMHO.. I've held back from almost all discussions on SH5 except for one or two comments. I do feel though you've got it pretty much right. Personally I find the interface items the most disturbing (along with hit meters).It looks "very" close to being an arcade game with fancy graphics; which is exactly what none of us here wanted. But the dollar rules. Maybe things can be rescued by the modders.( we'll need you guys big time) They have done simply amazing things in the past, and even right up to today.:salute:

I just hope UBI hasn't created a camel! Which as we all know is a horse designed by committee.:down:

Not too much of a market for camels is there?

[Ritmeister]

Agreed.


i say "critical mistake" because of one major thing...

making a game scalable in its difficulty so that it can appeal to a brain dead idiot all the way up to a subnautical super genious and all points in between is VERY DIFFICULT to do without completely ruining game play experience for one or another group of fans.

if not implemented correctly - this shot at making the game marketable to "all" could end the franchise as it can alienate the core community which is the very reason games like this should exist in the first place.

Excellent! Why can't they see the way this "may" be headed? I've seen this path before when developers went the mas appeal route and it alienated everyone.

[GoldenRivet]

i must say being overly possative is just as silly as being overly negative so you cant assume all roses and sunshine either until you see what we get.

Well said, we will see what we get all in good time.

However, when i pull the shrink wrap off this thing and install it.

there is no excuse for basic bugs and howlers like the infamous "A key crash"

im going to have to tweak the realism because i dont want to see "health bars" above the ships (which no offense to the dev team intended... but that is by far the dumbest idea for a subsim i have ever heard of period)

i think for the majority of the subsim community the following can be said...

We expect SH5 to be the ultimate in cumulative realism over the course of the franchise, however we are shown videos of SH5 with health bars and flooding bars above the ships and point and shoot style torpedo attacks and all we can think is...

WTF? :06:

so far... the marketing on SH5 has been terrible.

all we have had a glimpse of has been a few short videos of the most basic easy setting game play.

what we crave is a video of a carefully planned attack, or a deck gun barrage etc.

when SH3 was marketed the dedicated web site had a whole series of videos demonstrating various things like navigation, attack, AAA, and deck gun use etc. all i could do was sit and watch all day long and salivate over them... anxiously awaiting the release date.

i was so impressed with SH3 marketing that i had a back up plan for buying SH3 on release date should something occur which had me out of town or at work.

I also set aside spare money just in case something happened financially speaking where i could still afford to buy SH3.

- I'm not getting that vibe with SH5. its almost as if Ubi is trying to intentionally avoid marketing the game to "us"

so far... since first hearing of SH5... all we have seen is this basic black web site with a forum button a register button and a single concept video.

so it is understandable how many of the franchise veterans are scratching their heads.

[TDK1044]

Well said, we will see what we get all in good time.

However, when i pull the shrink wrap off this thing and install it.

there is no excuse for basic bugs and howlers like the infamous "A key crash"

im going to have to tweak the realism because i dont want to see "health bars" above the ships (which no offense to the dev team intended... but that is by far the dumbest idea for a subsim i have ever heard of period)

i think for the majority of the subsim community the following can be said...

We expect SH5 to be the ultimate in cumulative realism over the course of the franchise, however we are shown videos of SH5 with health bars and flooding bars above the ships and point and shoot style torpedo attacks and all we can think is...

WTF? :06:

so far... the marketing on SH5 has been terrible.

all we have had a glimpse of has been a few short videos of the most basic easy setting game play.

what we crave is a video of a carefully planned attack, or a deck gun barrage etc.

when SH3 was marketed the dedicated web site had a whole series of videos demonstrating various things like navigation, attack, AAA, and deck gun use etc.

so far... since first hearing of SH5... all we have seen is this basic black web site with a forum button a register button and a single concept video.

so it is understandable how many of the franchise veterans are scratching their heads.

Great points made here. :)

[danasan]

Hello again,

What I do expect from SH V is being a new platform, which matches the newer windscreen - monitor standards and resolutions without having trouble with this or that...

[THE_MASK]

I expect a computer FPS submarine game for about $50 . On the positive side , if they are catering for the mass market now then i dont think they can have game breaking bugs in it . I think FPS subsim brings us into a new era of subsims . The first few hours of posting once people have played it should be interesting .

[Nisgeis]

there is no excuse for basic bugs and howlers like the infamous "A key crash"

Ah yes, now I remember that. What a pointless time that was and a perfect example of why the nay sayers should get their facts straight. Now the event in queston was one of the most contentious issues of SH3, the fanbois said death to the 'A' Key fanatics, as their driver config was poor, yet it was later revealved that there was in fact a terrible fault in the game that made it crash. The only difference in the two camps was one clicked the auto crew button and others used the keyboard shortcut. One caused a CTD and one did not. So, moral of the story is., the fanbois were wrong, and the game was bugged. So, just watch out for that in the future, if the fanbois protest too loudly.

I hope that from SH5 onwards, bugs can be reported without the vitriolic fervour shown by the die hard bug supporters, who only want known bugs to remain in place, who do so by casting aspertions on the known bug sufferer's hardware, in order to deflect from the shortcomings of the game.

If you are against bugs being fixed though, just remember to shout that Ubisoft is not responsible for someone's driver setup. That just about muddies the waters enough to be unhelpful enough. But of course to do that you'd have to be a patriotically sworn defender of the Ubi Realm. Death to the 'A' Key SWINE!

[Méo]

i see sh5 as a "possible" major flop that could and very likely "will" put an end to the continuation of the silent hunter franchise.

Were you just making sarcasm ?? :hmmm:

You already said 2 days ago:

i myself have less concerns after seeing this:When I sat down with Dan Dimitrescu, Lead Designer of Silent Hunter V, he made sure to point out that the submarine series wasn't abandoning its roots.

gone are the days of 2D interface screens.

gone are the days of complete limitation to one or two compartments or views.

Well to me, this is good news, only evolution, a real u-boat commander had to walk in his boat and interact with his crew. :yep:

Personally, I don't necessarily translate the first person view as a clear intention to dumb down the series.

About the famous health bars that everyone is talking about, well to me it's not worse than the update map option...

i must say being overly possative is just as silly as being overly negative so you cant assume all roses and sunshine either until you see what we get.

There's a difference between being optimistic and making hopes.

Did Dan met & conversed with some members of the modding community??

Did he posted here nearly 750 post (so he must have been reading here a lot) ??

Did Subsim was the only place on the web that was announcing SH5 nearly a year before it's official announcement ??

So to me, UBI had showed a certain will to maintain a link with this community. So there a reasons for being optimistic.

But there are also a lot of reasons for not making any expectations (particularly about whether or not it will be in a finished state).

[GoldenRivet]

@Meo

yes. the new first person interface is a good thing.

precisely the point i was trying to make.

"gone are the days of the 2D interface" :up: good thing

[finchOU]

As far as marketing goes...yeah i guess I would have expected a little more by now...but we are still months away from this thing being released. I'm sure within 6 weeks of release we will get those "SH3" type videos.

I was SHOCKED :o at the Health bar in that video! Uneffin believable. That is the kind of thing that makes not want to buy a FPS game let alone a PC Sim.

I understand that SH3 was a huge step in the right direction making it almost impossible not to be a success. I dont think SH5 can step up to that level of upgrade. If it turns out to be SH4 part duex and it they only focused on one "Major" change (First Person and compartments) its not going to bring in huge numbers of sales IMHO. Graphics will always add some layer of Immerision...but in the end it always always always comes down gameplay.

I guess we will have to wait and see

[mookiemookie]

I would be interested in seeing how scaleable the game is. The health bars are a joke. I remember reading somewhere that those things could be turned off in realism settings, so that's good. But I'm still concerned with the interface we saw in the last video. It would go a long way with me if they would just reassure us that we will have true-to-life U-boat dials and gauges on our interface.

Barring that, at least tell us that it can be modded in.

I am cautiously optimistic and will reserve judgment until I've played it.

[finchOU]

Meo

There is a difference between listening to the community and actual implementation of ideas into the sim. I guess what I'm saying is from what we have see so far.....its hard to tell exactly if they have been "listening" (aka puting stuff in SH5). I know I know..FP view and compartments...yada yada...but thats it. I do not like the lack of news...that is never good. Notice almost nothing has been said about Major upgrades. Usually devs/companies are excited about the new features..so if we havent heard about it by now...its probalby not going be in SH5.

Bahumbug! hahaha I still have hope dang it!

[finchOU]

Another thing on health bars.....troubling because its a limited glimps of how the designers are programed to make a sim. I dont like that one bit.....its not a good omen. I'm just saying.

[Méo]

Your opinion:

Another thing on health bars.....troubling because its a limited glimps of how the designers are programed to make a sim.

Dan's opinion:

Marketing is part of the team but you'd be surprised how much they know about the series and what and who took it so far.

They know how important the community is, trust me.

P.S. Generally speaking developers are not robots following orders.

But you are free to be continuously worried...

I am cautiously optimistic and will reserve judgment until I've played it.

Exactly!! :up:

[THE_MASK]

My prediction is that SH5 wont be a simulation but it will be a first person shooter style submarine game .

[Méo]

My prediction is that SH5 wont be a simulation but it will be a first person shooter style submarine game .

Bah! this is only because you're a mental patient...:O:

[THE_MASK]

Bah! this is only because you're a mental patient...:O:
Where have you seen by ubi that it is a true simulation ?

[Méo]

@Sober, first of all it was just some kind of joke.:03:

Where have you seen by ubi that it is a true simulation ?

i myself have less concerns after seeing this:When I sat down with Dan Dimitrescu, Lead Designer of Silent Hunter V, he made sure to point out that the submarine series wasn't abandoning its roots.

[GoldenRivet]

Dan is a great guy, i cant say enough good things about him.

He took a lot of notes and did a lot of listening at the 2008 subsim meet.

i look forward to what his team managed to implement.

On the other hand.

we are closing to within 60 (approx) days of release... the amount of information we have on this product is very minimal to say the least.

all im saying is... we have had a video or two which caters to the arcade crowd...

lets see something that answers the call of the hard core players, who... IMHO have been more or less "left out" so far.

[Méo]

Dan is a great guy, i cant say enough good things about him.

He took a lot of notes and did a lot of listening at the 2008 subsim meet.

i look forward to what his team managed to implement.

On the other hand.

we are closing to within 60 (approx) days of release... the amount of information we have on this product is very minimal to say the least.

all im saying is... we have had a video or two which caters to the arcade crowd...

lets see something that answers the call of the hard core players.

100% Agree.

The thing is that (IMHO) many people tend polarize their interpretation of a single detail and say it's gonna be an ineluctable disaster.

[zepo]

I have posted that commend at another thread but i think it suits better here.I just don't know if i want an early release with some bugs just to take a taste before some patches-mods etc fix the problems ,or a late release (1 or 2 months later) with almost no bugs at all....:damn:.

As for what I am waiting is a sh3 GWX with better graphics and options that will allow hardcore fans who have supported all these years this amazing sim to lose some sleep again...I believe that I am not going to be disappointed at all!!!!

Oh and happy new year to all out there!!!!!!:salute:

[GoldenRivet]

100% Agree.

The thing is that (IMHO) many people tend polarize their interpretation of a single detail and say it's gonna be an ineluctable disaster.

I seriously doubt the game as a whole will be a disaster.

before i go further in this post... please consider this...

Far be it from me to tell someone how to do their job... im not on the inner circle on the dev team and i have about as much idea of what those guys are up to as a rock in siberia does...

However, if my services and products at the business i currently own were being marketed in the same fashion as SH5 is being marketed.

my marketing director would be hitting the bricks.

just sayin :haha: (mostly joking... mostly)

it can be easy for the hard core player to take a look at one or two videos of in game footage and lay eyes on "health bars", the OOGA horn and other howlers and they naturally react like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35Lt4bIXyrY)

however one must consider - the reason its easy to have that reaction... is because so far... thats the only in game footage we have seen so far unfortunately.

[Ducimus]

RE: What can we really expect from SHV?

More of the same in a pretty new wrapper. I'll wager that most of the core functionality will probably remain unchanged from SH3 and SH4. From how the AI works, to depth charge behavior, to windspeed being capped at 15 kts, to anything that can be called an algorythm, or function that is part of the core mechanics of the sim, will in all likelyhood, remain unchanged. SH5, used SH4 as a base, which used SH3 as a base. There's going to be some inherited code, and if it aint broke, why fix it? So in all seriousness, i hope nobody is expecting a fundamental change in gameplay.

Boil the gameplay down, and what do you really do in SH3 and SH4?

Find ships, track them, attack them, evade.

That's it. No more, no less. Rinse and repeat ad nasuem. For many people here, it will be a very familiar routine, and it's the same routine regardless if your playing ATO or PTO. Find, track, attack, evade. If you expect any more then that, your allowing yourself to fall victim to pregame hype.

The perspective will be different. The GUI will be different, the graphics will be updated, but the core of it, the mechanics of the sim, i'm wagering, will be the same as SH3 and SH4. Toss in about 4 or 5 patch's, and you have a realistic expectation. I also expect that most here will buy it regardless of what commentary they write now. The allure of a game that will have the same core functionalty of SH3/sh4, with a fully rendered interior and spiffy graphics, that make you feel like your in the movie Das Boot will be too much to resist.

[Reece]

My main worry will be as I've always said: BUGS, SHIV was full of them to the point of, to me, being unplayable, I can live with most stuff but if I see ships crossing over land, aircraft flying into hills, seeing through men, bridge crew appearing & disappearing, views to rear compartment (type II) yielding a white screen, problems crossing International Date Line, empty eye sockets, wrong spoken orders to speed selection, well you get the idea!!:x Introducing new stuff into the game usually also introduces new bugs! saying this though it does seem that the devs are doing a lot more to producing a higher quality game, a lot more time (to March) has been spent on this game than SH4, and since it uses the same engine, the extra time hopefully will be spent on beta tests and bug fixes, most other stuff, like realism can be fixed with mods!:yep:

[THE_MASK]

@Sober, first of all it was just some kind of joke.:03:
I think FPS type sub game will be far far more realistic than the 2D ever could be .

[mookiemookie]

RE: What can we really expect from SHV?

More of the same in a pretty new wrapper. I'll wager that most of the core functionality will probably remain unchanged from SH3 and SH4. From how the AI works, to depth charge behavior, to windspeed being capped at 15 kts, to anything that can be called an algorythm, or function that is part of the core mechanics of the sim, will in all likelyhood, remain unchanged. SH5, used SH4 as a base, which used SH3 as a base. There's going to be some inherited code, and if it aint broke, why fix it? So in all seriousness, i hope nobody is expecting a fundamental change in gameplay.

Boil the gameplay down, and what do you really do in SH3 and SH4?

Find ships, track them, attack them, evade.

That's it. No more, no less. Rinse and repeat ad nasuem. For many people here, it will be a very familiar routine, and it's the same routine regardless if your playing ATO or PTO. Find, track, attack, evade. If you expect any more then that, your allowing yourself to fall victim to pregame hype.

The perspective will be different. The GUI will be different, the graphics will be updated, but the core of it, the mechanics of the sim, i'm wagering, will be the same as SH3 and SH4. Toss in about 4 or 5 patch's, and you have a realistic expectation. I also expect that most here will buy it regardless of what commentary they write now. The allure of a game that will have the same core functionalty of SH3/sh4, with a fully rendered interior and spiffy graphics, that make you feel like your in the movie Das Boot will be too much to resist.

I think you're spot on. I seriously am not expecting a drastic change from SH3/SH4. Let's just hope they fix some of the irks about the game.

That being said, I'll take the old girl any day. And I'm sure her new facelift will look great.

[Lord Justice]

That being said, I'll take the old girl any day. And I'm sure her new facelift will look great. Sir mookiemookie, how do you do sir? and a very happy new year as tis now 01.52 here. :woot: My q is, Please you must tell me, what will you do if the so called old gal has had a complete make over, with full service history stamp on upper and inner thigh removed, and had complete suction with new smooth rebore, which totaly exceeds ones expectations? i presume you wish to dive 1st with her but sir, would you class her truely as your old gal? or bow with upmost respect to this new creation? (after a good feel of course.) thank you. :)

[mookiemookie]

Sir mookiemookie, how do you do sir? and a very happy new year as tis now 01.52 here. :woot: My q is, what will you do if the so called old gal has had a complete make over, with full service history stamp on upper and inner thigh removed, and had complete suction with new smooth rebore, which totaly exceeds ones expectations? i presume you wish to dive 1st with her but sir, would you class her truely as your old gal? or bow with upmost respect to this new creation? (after a good feel of course.) thank you. :)

We shall see in March, won't we?

[Lord Justice]

We shall see in March, won't we? Well stuff me with green apples, indeed we shall. ;)

[MikeVictor]

I have tried a few games where the player gives commands to virtual person(s) in the game rather than manipulating objects or shooting in the first person mode. The former is more of a 3rd person mode...and I must say, I don't care for it.

Now I have played games that were a combination of the two modes, where I would lead a team and give orders to them while I performed tasks in the 1st person mode. SH4 is like that now and that is my preferred mode of play. Is SH5 like that too?

Personally yours,

Mike

[longam]

I just have to remind myself not to venture in this area to much during the first discovery. It seems some have wrote the book before the release of the game. What What?

[karamazovnew]

I agree with Dulcimus, many of the major possible improvements have been left out. Some will be more visible to modders so it's normal for them to complain more.
The dumbing down perceived by many, such as health bars and tactical radar map aren't bad tho. In fact they are a pure gem for modders and for both begginers and also serious kaleuns that might just want to know what the F is going on. SH has been almost a table-top game in that you need to IMAGINE 90% of what's going on. Very fun for simmers, very annoying for gamers.
Anyway, I can't wait for the game to come up. I expect it to be a SH3 killer from the start. With some modding done, who knows how it will be like one year from now.

[JU_88]

I agree with Dulcimus, many of the major possible improvements have been left out. Some will be more visible to modders so it's normal for them to complain more.
The dumbing down perceived by many, such as health bars and tactical radar map aren't bad tho. In fact they are a pure gem for modders and for both begginers and also serious kaleuns that might just want to know what the F is going on. SH has been almost a table-top game in that you need to IMAGINE 90% of what's going on. Very fun for simmers, very annoying for gamers.
Anyway, I can't wait for the game to come up. I expect it to be a SH3 killer from the start. With some modding done, who knows how it will be like one year from now.


My thoughts exactly ^^

[sharkbit]

Boil the gameplay down, and what do you really do in SH3 and SH4?

Find ships, track them, attack them, evade.

That's it. No more, no less. Rinse and repeat ad nasuem. For many people here, it will be a very familiar routine, and it's the same routine regardless if your playing ATO or PTO. Find, track, attack, evade. If you expect any more then that, your allowing yourself to fall victim to pregame hype.

The perspective will be different. The GUI will be different, the graphics will be updated, but the core of it, the mechanics of the sim, i'm wagering, will be the same as SH3 and SH4. Toss in about 4 or 5 patch's, and you have a realistic expectation. I also expect that most here will buy it regardless of what commentary they write now. The allure of a game that will have the same core functionalty of SH3/sh4, with a fully rendered interior and spiffy graphics, that make you feel like your in the movie Das Boot will be too much to resist.

Why buy it then if it is just a new, shiny version of SH3/SH4? :hmmm:

:)

[JU_88]

Why buy it then if it is just a new, shiny version of SH3/SH4? :hmmm:

:)

Because most of like new and shiny things :haha:

At least I do, As far as SHV is concered I am pretty much what Ducimus described.

Im pefectly happy with SHV to have the same core as SH3 & 4 since they were actually (while not perfect) pretty damn good games.
So If it aint broke dont fix it - just fine tune & build up on it.

So yeah I geuss a 'sexed up SH3' with eye candy served with extra tweaks & features (and some Sub/torpedo Ai) will do me just fine thanks.
I dont even care much about the full interior as im more concered with the world outside of the sub, but its certainly a welcome bonus!

Role on March! :D

[TDK1044]

I think Ducimus' analysis is spot on. :)

[PL_Andrev]

1) No bugs known at SH3 1.4 / SH4 1 .5
2) Good AI, depend from player skill (difficulty level)
3) Stable and funny multiplayer matches
4) Real surface attacks in early years
5) More moddable than SH3 / SH4 (scripts?)
6) Help by officers (but no perfect as lew difficulty level)
7) Fast manual recognition for thousand ships
8) Wolfpacks

[TDK1044]

RE: What can we really expect from SHV?

More of the same in a pretty new wrapper. I'll wager that most of the core functionality will probably remain unchanged from SH3 and SH4. From how the AI works, to depth charge behavior, to windspeed being capped at 15 kts, to anything that can be called an algorythm, or function that is part of the core mechanics of the sim, will in all likelyhood, remain unchanged. SH5, used SH4 as a base, which used SH3 as a base. There's going to be some inherited code, and if it aint broke, why fix it? So in all seriousness, i hope nobody is expecting a fundamental change in gameplay.

Boil the gameplay down, and what do you really do in SH3 and SH4?

Find ships, track them, attack them, evade.

The perspective will be different. The GUI will be different, the graphics will be updated, but the core of it, the mechanics of the sim, i'm wagering, will be the same as SH3 and SH4. Toss in about 4 or 5 patch's, and you have a realistic expectation. I also expect that most here will buy it regardless of what commentary they write now. The allure of a game that will have the same core functionalty of SH3/sh4, with a fully rendered interior and spiffy graphics, that make you feel like your in the movie Das Boot will be too much to resist.

For me, this post sums it up. I think the 'first person' mode will give the game an added dimension though.

If they give us the above in a finished game, and if we get a decent user manual, I'll be quite happy. It's pretty much what I expected when they announced the game.

[Laffey]

From a video posted on here it shows healthbars. I mean Ubi what HAVE YOU DONE:damn:

[TDK1044]

From a video posted on here it shows healthbars. I mean Ubi what HAVE YOU DONE:damn:

You will be able to remove most of those within Options. The modders will take care of the rest.

[JU_88]

From a video posted on here it shows healthbars. I mean Ubi what HAVE YOU DONE:damn:

They added a feature for novices that can be disabled though the realsim settings.
Big deal. :yawn:

[martes86]

Well,

First of all, hi everyone, and Happy New Year, I hope you all got incredibly drunk and had exuberant women (or men, whatever your preference is) all around you on New Year's day.:woot:

And, now, down to business:

A lot of you people have it all wrong. A superficial knowledge of the Developer Studio's hierarchy can lead you to think that all big decisions are made by guys in suits carrying arround suitcases full of PowerPoint presentations, and driving in awesome sports cars. And in some cases, you may be right, but not with these guys.

Meeting the devs in person and having spoken with them, clears a lot of stuff for me. First of all being the fact that, while the Ubi managing directors probably love the sim being played by casual gamers (granting more sells = $), that's got a lot to do with Dan's wish that everyone gets to play it. And to me it's perfectly logical. While I'd love to have such a devoted fanbase, I'd also love to have a much broader audience, that everyone got to know about the work I've done, and if they liked it, showed their support. This is a piece of art after all, a creation for us to enjoy.
That's why we're seeing certain features, like those health bars, but those will be easily removable through the usual realism menu (at least, that's what the presence of a realism menu implies, and we were assured that we could customize our realism level, so...), and so we hardcore geeks can play in 100% or almost 100% if we like.


I think we'll be safe to say that about 85-95% of features already present in SH3, will be back in SH5, and probably some of the improvements from SH4 (namely the graphics) will be in too.


There's also the hope of the modding-friendly scripts developed for the interface (which we got the chance to see a bit in Copenhaguen), and the hope that might lead to the ultimate SDK we've all waited so long for (though this last point is a little speculation).


Maybe, in the begginings of this trip (the simulation trip, that is), there was room for panic, pesimism... but now we know the devs, we know they love this as much as we do (the trip to Laboe comes to mind), we've heard directly from them what they want to accomplish... there will be certain disagreements, that's always bound to happen in game-design, can't be helped, but I think that, in the grand scheme of things, SH5 will be a big step forward, and, if it meets the standards of the 24th, I'll make sure they get our full support for a job well done (and a nice cold beer, if we meet again... I hope that happens in the US meet this year :DL ).

As for the standards of the rest of you, I can only tell you that the Devs are passionate in what they're doing, they want it to work as much as we do, and they love it. If, in the end, it doesn't become what we've expected of it, well, **** happens, blame the suits for not commiting a larger number of resources into the project, but the devs are truly commited for the project to succeed and for us to enjoy it, and so far, I've loved what I've seen.

As I always say, support your Devs (ordinary guys like you and me), and they'll do their best to improve more and more our sim each time... non-stop criticise them, and they'll end up wondering why the hell are they still commited to releasing games for a bunch of ungrateful hardcore geeks, apart than for the money they get from it.

Cheers, and keep drinking! ;)

[Fish40]

I've read the whole thread, and agree with most of the points mentioned. I probrably won't get the game straight away, not because I'm worried about bugs ect.., hell I preordered SH3&4. I'm gonna need a new rig to run this puppy, and since I just bought a co-op, well you get the picture.

What I don't understand is why there seemed to be a rush to get these sims (SH3&4) on the shelves, obviously in an unfinished state, while a sim like Oleg Maddox's SOW has been in development for what seems forever. Has any of you seen the latest WIP screenshots? It seems no detail has been overlooked. Isn't the IL2 series put out by UBI? I don't get why it seems Oleg has all the time in the world to get it right, and the SH's needed patches for basic bugs. What am I missing?

[martes86]

What I don't understand is why there seemed to be a rush to get these sims (SH3&4) on the shelves, obviously in an unfinished state, while a sim like Oleg Maddox's SOW has been in development for what seems forever.

Money I guess... in the grand scheme of things, a small-fanbase game is more likely to be rushed out, since you're putting resources on it, and want to get it all back fast, specially if you think that you're wasting those resources, and are reading people in forums saying how they'll boycott its release. Oleg's sims, well, I think they have a bit more ample public, and knowing that they'll get the money anyways, they don't feel the rush... I don't know, just speculating...

[Méo]

As I always say, support your Devs (ordinary guys like you and me), and they'll do their best to improve more and more our sim each time... non-stop criticise them, and they'll end up wondering why the hell are they still commited to releasing games for a bunch of ungrateful hardcore geeks, apart than for the money they get from it.

:up::up::up:

Couldn't agree more!

I only hope that most of the people here think the same as you and me and the ''ungrateful hardcore geeks'' are only a minority.

PS: there is a MAJOR difference between critisizing their work in a constructive way and continuously bashing them because the game is not perfectly of your likings.

[Seeadler]

Isn't the IL2 series put out by UBI? I don't get why it seems Oleg has all the time in the world to get it right, and the SH's needed patches for basic bugs. What am I missing?

Maddox (Oleg) is an independent company and belongs to the 1C group not to Ubisoft. Ubisoft will be used only as a publisher, but not funded the development. But SH5 is developed and funded by Ubisoft itself.

[JU_88]

Maddox (Oleg) is an independent company and belongs to the 1C group not to Ubisoft. Ubisoft will be used only as a publisher, but not funded the development. But SH5 is developed and funded by Ubisoft itself.

yep, I imagine Oleg is his own boss (pretty much)

[Fish40]

Well that's the answer I guess. We need some independently wealthy programmers who love WWII subsims as much as we do, so they could develop a simulation at their own pace, overlooking nothing. Anybody out there hit the Mega-Ball lately?:haha:

[finchOU]

TreadJack warning!

Martes86,

Do you guys have a transcript of what you guys talked to the Dev team about? Did you get to ask questions? Was this predevelopment? How organized were the "subsim" group about pushing info? or was it more causal?

I guess what I'm asking is what was conveyed by both you guys to the Devs and vice versa. That is all. Thanks

[Subtype Zero]

...pokes head out from under rock....

For those hoping that UBI will release a video featuring the sim at 100% geeked-out realism settings, forget it. Doing something like that would be potential marketing suicide, as it will freak out the nubies and casual gamers into thinking the game will be too complex to learn to play. Like it or not, the users of this forum are only a tiny, tiny minority of the potential buyers of the sim. Most new buyers will be most interested in fancy graphics, the new FPS interface, and X-box type features. UBI has to give them what they want, especially in the previews, or the game will not meet the publishers sales expectations.

[stabiz]

...pokes head out from under rock....

For those hoping that UBI will release a video featuring the sim at 100% geeked-out realism settings, forget it. Doing something like that would be potential marketing suicide, as it will freak out the nubies and casual gamers into thinking the game will be too complex to learn to play. Like it or not, the users of this forum are only a tiny, tiny minority of the potential buyers of the sim. Most new buyers will be most interested in fancy graphics, the new FPS interface, and X-box type features. UBI has to give them what they want, especially in the previews, or the game will not meet the publishers sales expectations.

Its thinking like that that kills everything. Isnt the Silent Hunter series a success? Well, it must be considering the fifth title is about to hit the shelves, so why should UBI all of a sudden be "ashamed" of the core of the title? This relentless catering to the "owww-shiny-graphics-must-pirate-and-play-10-minutes-then-go-back-to-Crysis"-crowd is not productive, IMO. The series is popular because you get a taste of the life of a submariner, not because you get to win WW2 in a super sub in DirectX 15.

[Jimbuna]

As I always say, support your Devs (ordinary guys like you and me), and they'll do their best to improve more and more our sim each time... non-stop criticise them, and they'll end up wondering why the hell are they still commited to releasing games for a bunch of ungrateful hardcore geeks, apart than for the money they get from it.



That is a point that has failed IMHO to be realised by I suspect, a large number of people. http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[mookiemookie]

...pokes head out from under rock....

For those hoping that UBI will release a video featuring the sim at 100% geeked-out realism settings, forget it. Doing something like that would be potential marketing suicide, as it will freak out the nubies and casual gamers into thinking the game will be too complex to learn to play. Like it or not, the users of this forum are only a tiny, tiny minority of the potential buyers of the sim. Most new buyers will be most interested in fancy graphics, the new FPS interface, and X-box type features. UBI has to give them what they want, especially in the previews, or the game will not meet the publishers sales expectations.

If you've spent any time with the SH devs as I have, you would know that's not the case.

[Seeadler]

We need some independently wealthy programmers who love WWII subsims as much as we do, so they could develop a simulation at their own pace, overlooking nothing. Anybody out there hit the Mega-Ball lately?:haha:

Here is a simplified cost accounting for an average game project.

http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/91/3063991/1680_3664333931633065.jpg

As to see, also with a publisher who has the biggest part of the development costs, an independent development studio must wait until enough copies are sold before they have gotten something from the profits.

So a hardcore simulation must be sold over 100.000 copies before the devs get something from the cake, easier to receive with a popular action shooter for a wider range of customers :D

[karamazovnew]

I hate economics. If you wouldn't mind a small detour, let me tell you where we're heading.

I live in a country where piracy is extremely common. To put it simple, it's not a phenomenon, it's a way of thinking. People have money to buy a PC or a console but not enough money to continue to buy games (or they just buy World of Warcraft and stop there). If it weren't for piracy, the IT market would simply collapse here. Playstation 2 and 3 have not yet been cracked globally. XBOX has been cracked though and many here prefer to buy a console for 1/3 of the money they spend on a PC and then get free games and even have enough money left to buy originals like L4D, MW2 and other multiplayer games. The fun about Xbox and original games is the community and achievements and DLC's and so on, so it's still safe.

The game of the year on Gamespot is Demon's Souls, a game made exclusive for PS3. For many years now PC users have had to other wait for years to play ported games (GTA), or get very poor ports (like Force Unleashed). But right now we're seeing the beginning of the end for PC gamers. Not only is piracy much easier to keep in check but consoles also have the appeal of not having to upgrade them every year. Plus, a console can be a video player, music player, web browser and so on.

Soon, Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo and Sega will decide that it's better to join forces and create fixed and portable media centers. These consoles of the future will have an unified game engine protected in compiled files. Games will be much much smaller and easier to develop across different platforms. All platforms will communicate with each other. Even more, with the advent of 3d movies, soon we'll have a new hardware codec for movies and music. But you know what? They will be as protected as drugs. Right now it's not illegal to make an MP3 because each person has the right to record themselves. DIVX's are not illegal because each person has the right to record his weddings. Those new codecs however will be SECRET and illegal to break, transfer or own. These new file systems will be forced to run on individual consoles with unique ID's. Hard media will disappear. All media will be in downloadable format. We already have Steam and iTunes but they're not mandatory because not everybody has internet. 20 years ago the internet was NOTHING. Look at it now. Soon, every phone call, all TV channels everything will be in internet form. Free internet available everywhere. No more excuses that you don't have it.

20 years from now the internet will have 3 main threads. Media download and game connection, Browsing, and file transfer for firms. Completely separate with different protocols and IP's. No more viruses.
Game development could turn into a free area where anybody can use a simple game designer and create anything. We already have XNA and it's amazing what one can do with it. But it requires time and skill. However, in the future, these game editors could be much much more powerful and easier to use. However this would require a PC or special compliers and a different free market. I highly doubt that the game industry will allow such a "mistake".

Consoles will be shipped with a special credit card. Many don't use their cards on the net because they're afraid. New credit cards will be made, a new payment protocol, universal credits and different country currency rates. If in Romania sales suck because people don't have money to spend on games, music and video, they'll just lower the currency rate so people can buy more credits with the same money.

So, you might say, what's wrong with this future? I'll tell you. Imagine a future where all games come in pieces and you pay for each. You want to play Silent Hunter? You buy the game, it gets transfered to your console. You want to play Type VII, you pay. You want to play Type IX, you pay. You want to get new torpedoes, you pay. You want to listen to a new gramophone song, you pay. Little by little by little. Regardless of how many games you play or how much music you listen to, or how many movies you see, you'll usually end up spending a lot. Commercials will be rampant and aggressive. Marketing will have free reign. Modding will be gone forever. They'll even create a fictitious way to make money, by playing. I have a friend who doesn't have a job, but plays WoW and sells money. He gets enough to make by. There will be many more ways: achievement hunting, competitions, support, game masters and so on. More and more will be stuck in a new economy which will be used as a regulator for the real economy.

Gone will be the dream of free media, of a free global knowledge database. Very bleak indeed. But don't blame piracy for it. I blame piracy for making me stand more in front of the computer, time better spent on women or drinking with friends. If it weren't for piracy, I never would've played, and eventually bought, Silent Hunter 3 and 4. I wouldn't be waiting for SH5 for which I have already saved money for the collector's edition. In simple terms, I wouldn't even be here on this forum. So don't blame piracy. Blame profit. Blame economics. Blame this devil that money is.

I may be an atheist but I say God bless Linux and modding communities. Here's the Star Trek vision come to life in the virtual world. A vision of using your potential to bring enjoyment to others. May it last forever :up:

PS: sorry about that... had it in me for a while.

[TDK1044]

If you've spent any time with the SH devs as I have, you would know that's not the case.

In a perfect world, the Devs would develop a sim to suit the needs of a community such as this. The reality is that they work for a Publisher. These Devs have gone above and beyond in the Silent Hunter series in order to keep a reasonable degree of realism and imersion in a very modable game, while also keeping the Publisher happy.

[urfisch]

I hate economics. If you wouldn't mind a small detour, let me tell you where we're heading.

I live in a country where piracy is extremely common. To put it simple, it's not a phenomenon, it's a way of thinking. People have money to buy a PC or a console but not enough money to continue to buy games (or they just buy World of Warcraft and stop there). If it weren't for piracy, the IT market would simply collapse here. Playstation 2 and 3 have not yet been cracked globally. XBOX has been cracked though and many here prefer to buy a console for 1/3 of the money they spend on a PC and then get free games and even have enough money left to buy originals like L4D, MW2 and other multiplayer games. The fun about Xbox and original games is the community and achievements and DLC's and so on, so it's still safe.

The game of the year on Gamespot is Demon's Souls, a game made exclusive for PS3. For many years now PC users have had to other wait for years to play ported games (GTA), or get very poor ports (like Force Unleashed). But right now we're seeing the beginning of the end for PC gamers. Not only is piracy much easier to keep in check but consoles also have the appeal of not having to upgrade them every year. Plus, a console can be a video player, music player, web browser and so on.

Soon, Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo and Sega will decide that it's better to join forces and create fixed and portable media centers. These consoles of the future will have an unified game engine protected in compiled files. Games will be much much smaller and easier to develop across different platforms. All platforms will communicate with each other. Even more, with the advent of 3d movies, soon we'll have a new hardware codec for movies and music. But you know what? They will be as protected as drugs. Right now it's not illegal to make an MP3 because each person has the right to record themselves. DIVX's are not illegal because each person has the right to record his weddings. Those new codecs however will be SECRET and illegal to break, transfer or own. These new file systems will be forced to run on individual consoles with unique ID's. Hard media will disappear. All media will be in downloadable format. We already have Steam and iTunes but they're not mandatory because not everybody has internet. 20 years ago the internet was NOTHING. Look at it now. Soon, every phone call, all TV channels everything will be in internet form. Free internet available everywhere. No more excuses that you don't have it.

20 years from now the internet will have 3 main threads. Media download and game connection, Browsing, and file transfer for firms. Completely separate with different protocols and IP's. No more viruses.
Game development could turn into a free area where anybody can use a simple game designer and create anything. We already have XNA and it's amazing what one can do with it. But it requires time and skill. However, in the future, these game editors could be much much more powerful and easier to use. However this would require a PC or special compliers and a different free market. I highly doubt that the game industry will allow such a "mistake".

Consoles will be shipped with a special credit card. Many don't use their cards on the net because they're afraid. New credit cards will be made, a new payment protocol, universal credits and different country currency rates. If in Romania sales suck because people don't have money to spend on games, music and video, they'll just lower the currency rate so people can buy more credits with the same money.

So, you might say, what's wrong with this future? I'll tell you. Imagine a future where all games come in pieces and you pay for each. You want to play Silent Hunter? You buy the game, it gets transfered to your console. You want to play Type VII, you pay. You want to play Type IX, you pay. You want to get new torpedoes, you pay. You want to listen to a new gramophone song, you pay. Little by little by little. Regardless of how many games you play or how much music you listen to, or how many movies you see, you'll usually end up spending a lot. Commercials will be rampant and aggressive. Marketing will have free reign. Modding will be gone forever. They'll even create a fictitious way to make money, by playing. I have a friend who doesn't have a job, but plays WoW and sells money. He gets enough to make by. There will be many more ways: achievement hunting, competitions, support, game masters and so on. More and more will be stuck in a new economy which will be used as a regulator for the real economy.

Gone will be the dream of free media, of a free global knowledge database. Very bleak indeed. But don't blame piracy for it. I blame piracy for making me stand more in front of the computer, time better spent on women or drinking with friends. If it weren't for piracy, I never would've played, and eventually bought, Silent Hunter 3 and 4. I wouldn't be waiting for SH5 for which I have already saved money for the collector's edition. In simple terms, I wouldn't even be here on this forum. So don't blame piracy. Blame profit. Blame economics. Blame this devil that money is.

I may be an atheist but I say God bless Linux and modding communities. Here's the Star Trek vision come to life in the virtual world. A vision of using your potential to bring enjoyment to others. May it last forever :up:

PS: sorry about that... had it in me for a while.

crazy vision. but somethings in it, i feel. maybe you are right with some things...anyway. i do not want any kind of this hypermodern future. its too safe, to sterile. people who played/know the RPG Shadow Run know, what the future will look like. THE NET itself, the SOFTWARE FIRMS, SECURITY FIRMS, ENERGY FIRMS, and FOOD DEVELOPERS are the new global players, who rule the world - lead by the money frenzy.

if people say 50 years ago, they do not want automatic cashier-machines, they didnt know, what future we now are in. i recently was in a food market and payed my things to a computer. no human any more who is smiling at you, or is pissed of from his job. just a screen and beeps, which let me know, how much i had to pay. i get cold freeze, when thinking of all this. cause all this is leading us into a sterile world, where the human is finally reduced to a worker and consumer, a drugged humanoid linkin himself up in the evening or at work into the "work station".

all his energy spending to the new and final GOD: MONEY

[BulSoldier]

Im kind of a neighbour to karamazovnew so i can see his point and he is pretty right.Ive never thought of this in such a detail but you can see that it is pretty logical.There are such games that include vareous and numerous download addon packages witch cost money.Ofcourse this is not just about games but it seems that they are the most obveous leads about the thing to happen.
I too have rather few games on my pc primary because of the high prices.Just an example.The new Call of duty mw2 costs 80levs (the currency here). That is 1/5 of the monthly payment i get for my job and my payment is above average.So you can imagine once you buy a pc you cant really pay much for games.Not to mention that i cant in any way save as much as 1/5 of my monthly payment.
Most of the games i buy are classics - like diablo and so on witch are considerably cheaper as time gets by.

You will be right to say that if i cannot afford one i should play one.In the end i dont steal cars just because i cant buy one.But it is my opinion that if games were cheaper the buyers would be much more numerous.

I can only hope that karamazovnew is very very wrong about this.

[THE_MASK]

Breakdown of sales by platform
Q1 2009/10 Q1 2008/09
Nintendo DS™ 26% 37%
PC 20% 14%
PlayStation®2 1% 3%
PLAYSTATION®3 13% 21%
PSP™ 4% 4%
Wii™ 20% 11%
XBOX 360™ 16% 9%
TOTAL 100% 100%

[karamazovnew]

Breakdown of sales by platform
Q1 2009/10 Q1 2008/09
Nintendo DS™ 26% 37%
PC 20% 14%
PlayStation®2 1% 3%
PLAYSTATION®3 13% 21%
PSP™ 4% 4%
Wii™ 20% 11%
XBOX 360™ 16% 9%
TOTAL 100% 100%


Is that in total number of sales? Or total amount of cash? Plus, the depression started in late 2007 and became serious only after Q2 of 2008. As my previous post showed, there can be a conflict between what we want and what the industry wants. They can bend that in any direction they wish. What I'd like to see is a breakdown of new titles by platform. Also important would be to see how many games are cross-platform and how many have been released on all platforms except PC (Eternal Sonata and FF13 come to mind).

[mookiemookie]

In a perfect world, the Devs would develop a sim to suit the needs of a community such as this. The reality is that they work for a Publisher. These Devs have gone above and beyond in the Silent Hunter series in order to keep a reasonable degree of realism and imersion in a very modable game, while also keeping the Publisher happy.

I see what you're getting at, but you can't deny that they've made the game very very scalable in both the out of the box sense (with realism options) and made it very open to modders adding our own brand of hardcore realism options.

[Turbografx]

They added a feature for novices that can be disabled though the realsim settings.
Big deal. :yawn:



It's not so much the bar itself that i find distressing but the game mechanic behind it. It requires that a torpedo does "X" damage, everytime. So you can turn off the visual of the bar, great, but does the mechanic change as well? Would they really have two different game mechanics in one game?

I'm afraid that even with the bar visual "off", it will still be a hit-point system, rather than a flooding/buoyancy system.

[mookiemookie]

It's not so much the bar itself that i find distressing but the game mechanic behind it. It requires that a torpedo does "X" damage, everytime. So you can turn off the visual of the bar, great, but does the mechanic change as well? Would they really have two different game mechanics in one game?

I'm afraid that even with the bar visual "off", it will still be a hit-point system, rather than a flooding/buoyancy system.

The second "health bar" you see on that screen is a flooding bar. Give the game a chance before you condemn it.

[karamazovnew]

It's not so much the bar itself that i find distressing but the game mechanic behind it. It requires that a torpedo does "X" damage, everytime. So you can turn off the visual of the bar, great, but does the mechanic change as well? Would they really have two different game mechanics in one game?

I'm afraid that even with the bar visual "off", it will still be a hit-point system, rather than a flooding/buoyancy system.

Why are you scared about healthpoints? The presence of the flood and health bars are the best proof that SH5 will not use a fps style of hitpoints.

Any ship is kept afloat by watertight compartments divided by bulkheads. The number of bulkheads and the total amount of water that can replace the lower density material (air) depend on each ship design. Theoretically speaking, a ship with 9 bulkheads (10 compartments) has more healthpoints than one with no bulkheads (one compartment). The size of the hole that your torpedo makes is also important as the enemy crew could pump out enough water to make it to port. In effect, your torpedoes do a certain amount of damage.

So it's not wrong to approximate real physics with:
- armor rating (the thickness of the hull) which prevent big holes
- total health or number of compartments that can be flooded without resulting in a sinking
- damage over time (fire aboard a ship)
- critical damage, the treshold of unstoppable rate of flooding
- fatality (ammo or fuel compartments)
- healing over time (pumping out of water) and repairs

The best way to show these are with a health bar and a flood bar. When the health bar drops to zero, kaboom. When the flood bar fills, blrgbrlhbrglrbhlrh :dead:

[JScones]

Why are you scared about healthpoints? The presence of the flood and health bars are the best proof that SH5 will not use a fps style of hitpoints.
How is it proof? A "health bar" could just as easily be used to reflect the same hitpoint approach as used in SH3 (and SH4?).

All you've done is counter speculation with...speculation. :doh:

Ironic, eh. ;)

[Sgtmonkeynads]

"What can I really expect from SHV?"

About a one month wait before I get the game, to see what you guys think about it, and weather or not you guys can fix it.

[Reece]

"What can I really expect from SHV?"

About a one month wait before I get the game, to see what you guys think about it, and weather or not you guys can fix it.Trouble is that wont boost sales for future versions!:-?

[stabiz]

True, but at the same time they cant expect people to buy it just because of the name, when there is uncertainty who its made for.

The only think I have liked in the previews so far is the graphics.

[Reece]

True, but at the same time they cant expect people to buy it just because of the name, when there is uncertainty who its made for.

The only think I have liked in the previews so far is the graphics.Well I purchased SHIV including the U-boat add-on but never played it, too many bugs, I would have loved SH3 with GWX and just updated graphics, but that's my opinion!:yep: I will continue to purchase via pre-ordering the Silent Hunter series, the thing I fear is possibly the day they stop production, so I keep on buying, just have to keep fingers crossed this version is a hit, I think it will be!:up:

[Jimbuna]

I should imagine within a day or two (definitely within a week of release) all the speculation of whatever variety will turn to fact and realisation.

Me, I'm hoping all the facts (or at the very least, most) are positive and not negative.

[karamazovnew]

How is it proof? A "health bar" could just as easily be used to reflect the same hitpoint approach as used in SH3 (and SH4?).

All you've done is counter speculation with...speculation. :doh:

Ironic, eh. ;)

It's not speculation, this is taken from Sober's list:
Added flooded mechanics to ships.
Boyancy is more realistic.
Ships can break in multiple parts but still stay afloat.

And the fact that a flooding bar is present, is in itself proof that the target's health is no longer represented by the number of torpedoes needed to sink it (I know it was more complicated than that but that's how it looked like in vanilla). The rest of my post was just an indication on how a "realistic" sinking system can be represented even with rpg style combat system. I have no idea how the damage system in SH5 works. We'll see.

[martes86]

TreadJack warning!

Martes86,

Do you guys have a transcript of what you guys talked to the Dev team about? Did you get to ask questions? Was this predevelopment? How organized were the "subsim" group about pushing info? or was it more causal?

I guess what I'm asking is what was conveyed by both you guys to the Devs and vice versa. That is all. Thanks

Well, I think I was the only one there to take notes. But they're mostly notes (and drawings) of what happened in the presentation, and the answers to the questions I brought from the 24th Flotilla Forums. There were several other "global discussions" or "debates" with the devs, but I didn't really keep track of those apart from what I had in mind myself.

My intention was to make a full disclosure of those notes, in Spanish first, and English later, but I haven't even transcripted the notes into the computer. I know, it's been more than 3 months now, but, I've been unexpectedly busy with some other stuff. Hopefully, I can put some stuff up before release, lol.

Cheers

[JScones]

It's not speculation, this is taken from Sober's list:


And the fact that a flooding bar is present, is in itself proof that the target's health is no longer represented by the number of torpedoes needed to sink it (I know it was more complicated than that but that's how it looked like in vanilla). The rest of my post was just an indication on how a "realistic" sinking system can be represented even with rpg style combat system. I have no idea how the damage system in SH5 works. We'll see.
So, your detailed post is based on three vague comments? And you don't consider it speculation? :hmmm:

You now say "I have no idea how the damage system in SH5 works", which is a full admission that you are speculating.

Anyway, as an aside, I find it funny how hypocritical some people here can be. Someone sees a screenshot and speculates that the visible healthbar*=bad, and it's instantly dismissed with equal speculation (usually written like it's fact) that it's good. Yet, if someone criticises the speculation that it's good, God help them...

*insert any SH5 feature here.

[JScones]

I should imagine within a day or two (definitely within a week of release) all the speculation of whatever variety will turn to fact and realisation.

Me, I'm hoping all the facts (or at the very least, most) are positive and not negative.
:yeah:

[jerm138]

Does anyone know if the first-person, running around the boat thing will be mandatory or optional?

I don't recall my skipper leaving the conn and running to the engine room every time he wanted a report. (and we were glad for that too!)

Looks like they still have a lot of 2D interfaces... I'd probably rather just use those. Hopefully they'll still have hotkeys to them.

If I had one wish for SH5 it would be for a better solution to the "update contacts" options. Right now, we can either turn them off completely (unrealistic, because in real life, the skipper doesn't plot dots... he has a tracking party for that) or turn them on and have a 100% accurate real-time representation of the situation... not far from using an external camera, and pretty unrealistic too.

My solution would be a "mark" button similar to the "Send data to TDC" button, except it sends the data to the plot. For instance, I'm looking at a contact in the scope and I estimate it's range and dial it in. Click the "mark" button and a time-stamped mark is placed on the plotter based on my range estimate and bearing. If I estimated the range incorrectly, I now have an incorrect dot on the plot. This would require the player (in 100% realism) to make his own range estimates manualy, without having to take the time to manually plot the dots since real skippers have people to do that for them.

[TDK1044]

Let's just wait for the release of the game. Most of the Arcade features are sure to be optional in the game, and those that aren't can be modded out. The bigger picture is that we have a new subsim to play with. :DL

[mookiemookie]

Let's just wait for the release of the game. Most of the Arcade features are sure to be optional in the game, and those that aren't can be modded out. The bigger picture is that we have a new subsim to play with. :DL

Quoted for truth. :yeah:

[Hitman]

I don't recall my skipper leaving the conn and running to the engine room every time he wanted a report. (and we were glad for that too!)


Speaking of, I'm going to open a thread about that, as I'm curious.

[mookiemookie]

My solution would be a "mark" button similar to the "Send data to TDC" button, except it sends the data to the plot. For instance, I'm looking at a contact in the scope and I estimate it's range and dial it in. Click the "mark" button and a time-stamped mark is placed on the plotter based on my range estimate and bearing. If I estimated the range incorrectly, I now have an incorrect dot on the plot. This would require the player (in 100% realism) to make his own range estimates manualy, without having to take the time to manually plot the dots since real skippers have people to do that for them.

I love this idea. It sounds as close to how it was actually done (from what I've read) as we can get.

[Platapus]

If I had one wish for SH5 it would be for a better solution to the "update contacts" options. Right now, we can either turn them off completely (unrealistic, because in real life, the skipper doesn't plot dots... he has a tracking party for that) or turn them on and have a 100% accurate real-time representation of the situation... not far from using an external camera, and pretty unrealistic too.

My solution would be a "mark" button similar to the "Send data to TDC" button, except it sends the data to the plot. For instance, I'm looking at a contact in the scope and I estimate it's range and dial it in. Click the "mark" button and a time-stamped mark is placed on the plotter based on my range estimate and bearing. If I estimated the range incorrectly, I now have an incorrect dot on the plot. This would require the player (in 100% realism) to make his own range estimates manualy, without having to take the time to manually plot the dots since real skippers have people to do that for them.

Absolutely what is needed in a sub simulator.

The crew/computer with absolute precision plots the information the Kaluen/player gives it. To be even more accurate, the quality of the plotting crew could be included -- Kaluen says bearing 152 but plots 150 sometimes.

But yes, your suggestion (and the other posts on the same concept) is what is missing from the SH3/4. The player is forced into either two unrealistic situations

1. Crew has GPS and omnipresent information on everything

2. Kaluen is alone on the sub

Neither one of these is accurate. The Kaluen did have people to assist him. But these people were blind and totally dependent on the reported observations of the Kaleun. I would very much like to see a simulation where the computer does what it does (plot things graphically) and allows/forces the player to do what they enjoy/do best, make the observations. This, to me, is much better than the dichotomy we have with the two unrealistic situations above.

I, as the Kaluen, should not be forced to take myself way from the scope to manually make little marks on the plot. My job as the Kaluen is to make the observations and to interpret the plot and make the command decisions.

[finchOU]

I, as the Kaluen, should not be forced to take myself way from the scope to manually make little marks on the plot. My job as the Kaluen is to make the observations and to interpret the plot and make the command decisions.


I've mentioned this before...and hoped it would/will be implemented in SHV. It would seem to me to be somewhat basic of an addition....but thats just me!

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=97697&highlight=Mark

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=87249&highlight=Mark

and this "electronic Manuevering board?- or the ability to plot info on contacts with a "mark" button or something. Right now I have to do 4 things at once.....start the clock....take a bearing.....take a range....and mark the ships current position. A "mark" button(command) maybe could write down current bearing you are looking at the current time and plots current ships position...all info on the map. All I would have to do is take a distance and plot out from marked ships position. A Manuevering board eliminates the Ships Position part because is deals strickly with relative bearing and distance based on own ships current"

from this older thread: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=150720&highlight=Mark&page=5

[karamazovnew]

So, your detailed post is based on three vague comments? And you don't consider it speculation? :hmmm:

You now say "I have no idea how the damage system in SH5 works", which is a full admission that you are speculating.

Anyway, as an aside, I find it funny how hypocritical some people here can be. Someone sees a screenshot and speculates that the visible healthbar*=bad, and it's instantly dismissed with equal speculation (usually written like it's fact) that it's good. Yet, if someone criticises the speculation that it's good, God help them...

*insert any SH5 feature here.

You've not criticised my "good speculation", all you've done was criticise ME, call me a hypocrite and then used your own words as a shield to prevent me from defending myself without appearing as a speculation fan-boy. And if you do that, at least don't use a plural. That offended me more.

When it comes to SH5, I'm an optimist and I have very high expectations from the game. So every time I see missing features (which I had hoped for) in either screenshots, trailers or dev comments, I'm probably more disappointed than others and I voice my concerns in strong terms. Some features however have been pounded by the community although the devs have stated repeatedly that the player will be able to turn off features and they've also made improvements in those areas both in terms of realism and user-friendliness.
"Q: Will we be able to turn health bars off?
A: Yes.
Q: Will the damage system be like the one in SH3?
A: No, it's much better, we've implemented realistic boyancy"

What more do you want? They've said they added buoyancy and you've seen a flood bar above the ship. How is that not proof of what they've said? It's as good a fact as the fact that SH5 will be about the Atlantic war, because they said it is (maybe they're lying and it's about Fleet Boats). Sure, it might not be a GOOD representation of the Atlantic war, and the buoyancy system might suck, that's why I said that I can't know yet how it works (good or bad). The rest of my post was just an example as to how even a simple hit-point system can approximate real physics to a good degree.

[JScones]

Defend away, if you feel you need to. ;)

[JScones]

Does anyone know if the first-person, running around the boat thing will be mandatory or optional?
I read--almost 100% certain it was from a Ubisoft source--that players can still use the function keys to move around, ala SH3/4. Just can't remember now where I read it.:hmmm:

[jerm138]

This doesn't sound very promising, though:

The player will have full access everywhere inside the submarine. Just like in any other first person game and just like a real captain had. But remember, you’re not just a camera, you’re the captain. Don’t go sunbathing on the fore deck or you’ll have a long way to go to that conning tower hatch before the sub can dive! From the Ubi forum (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1121062387/m/8591082387)

[tomoose]

I would tend to agree with WEBSTER's early post in that trying to please the arcade/FPS shooter crowd (aka: the younger, console:yawn: addicts) that UBI is barking up the wrong tree.
If the arcade stuff can be toggled on/off and the die-hard subsimmers are able to mod to their hearts content then we (the authenticity/realism crowd) will have the game we're hoping for and everybody's happy (well, almost everybody, someone will always have something to bitch about, LOL).
I don't believe however that adding the "dumbing-down" elements to this franchise is going to bring any dramatic increase in sales as the arcade/console:O: crowd need/want fast paced action and lots of blood and explosions (I know, I'm generalizing but you get my point). A subsim, by it's very nature, is a game of patience and tactics etc, dumbing it down doesn't really change that.
All that being said, March is not that far away and the release of the 'final' product (patches/bugs notwithstanding) will decide all. I, for one, am still enjoying the SH3/GWX experience and will happily stick with that if SH5 turns out to be a lemon.
:salute:

[kapitan_zur_see]

Come on guys, stop speculating about health bars, nothing to worry about! It's realistic anyway! don't you know they do exist in real life? :yep: Ask the guys here who served on warships or look at some pictures:

See above this task force?

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/4062/warships.jpg

Look at those crewmen doing repairs and trying to fix their broken one after an attack:

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/1911/repair.jpg

Definite proof IMHO

My prediction is that SH5 wont be a simulation but it will be a first person shooter style submarine game .

You got that right Sober, you can stop worrying at last :O:
IT IS an arcade shooting game indeed, and i've even got proof now! :03:

BEHOLD THE REALISM OF...
SILENT HUNTER 5 - The arcade game!

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2909/sh5arcadeo.jpg

Talk about manual targeting...!

[Sailor Steve]

:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

Good stuff, KzS!

[JScones]

:har: I might have to pay more attention to KzS's posts!

[IanC]

You've not criticised my "good speculation", all you've done was criticise ME, call me a hypocrite and then used your own words as a shield to prevent me from defending myself without appearing as a speculation fan-boy. And if you do that, at least don't use a plural. That offended me more.

When it comes to SH5, I'm an optimist and I have very high expectations from the game. So every time I see missing features (which I had hoped for) in either screenshots, trailers or dev comments, I'm probably more disappointed than others and I voice my concerns in strong terms. Some features however have been pounded by the community although the devs have stated repeatedly that the player will be able to turn off features and they've also made improvements in those areas both in terms of realism and user-friendliness.
"Q: Will we be able to turn health bars off?
A: Yes.
Q: Will the damage system be like the one in SH3?
A: No, it's much better, we've implemented realistic boyancy"

What more do you want? They've said they added buoyancy and you've seen a flood bar above the ship. How is that not proof of what they've said? It's as good a fact as the fact that SH5 will be about the Atlantic war, because they said it is (maybe they're lying and it's about Fleet Boats). Sure, it might not be a GOOD representation of the Atlantic war, and the buoyancy system might suck, that's why I said that I can't know yet how it works (good or bad). The rest of my post was just an example as to how even a simple hit-point system can approximate real physics to a good degree.

Well said :yep:

[finchOU]

Watch: "Health Bar on the Horizon Sir!"

Captain: "what type of ship is it Seaman?"

Watch: "I cant tell but she's at 100% health!"

[Platapus]

Watch: "Health Bar on the Horizon Sir!"

Captain: "what type of ship is it Seaman?"

Watch: "I cant tell but she's at 100% health!"

Just like in Stock SH#

Watch: Bridge, Sub sighted!

Bridge: Where away?

Watch: Right under that red "X" sir!

[Col. Caldwell]

Just like in Stock SH#

Watch: Bridge, Sub sighted!

Bridge: Where away?

Watch: Right under that red "X" sir!

Red X? What, are we hunting for buried treasure? :haha:

[Steeltrap]

My view is MOST of what's needed in an Atlantic WWII subsim was present in the modded SHIII (NYGM or GWX).

Realism, realism, realism....with SOME compromises for gameplay/resource constraints.

Let's face it:

- assigned orders to patrol zones
- dynamic contact reports
- potential for wolfpack actions
- correct sensor performances based on technical specs, experience and weather.
- crew rosters/assignments
- weather
- observations leading to plotting leading to firing solution.
- weapons (performance, especially for guns)
- damage modelling

Get those 'realistic', by which I mean a reasonable representation based on the abundant real-life records, and you're a LONG way to making a great sim.

THEN make it look nice.

IF SH5 is SHIII in SH4+ engine without addressing all those points then :down:.

Some simple tests I want to see are:

- surface attacks at night
- detection/evasion, surfaced and submerged
- selectable 'contact frequency' (i.e. yippee shoot, moderate, realistic)

Get those right and I'm pretty sold. Another way of looking at it is asking "what did NYGM/GWX attempt to 'fix'?" and then SH5 should have those 'fixed' at time of release.

Cheers

(p.s. I posted this in another thread and was feeling lazy so i just cc + pasted)

[JScones]

I want to know when Neal will be sent a beta copy of SH5 to preview? I remember Neal was sent a beta copy of both SH2 and SH3 well before release, which he independently previewed, but it didn't happen with SH4 (all Neal got was a controlled demo of what Ubisoft wanted him to see)...and we all know the state SH4 was in upon release...which is why I ask my question, considering it's now a mere 8 weeks or so until release (and we should be well past beta stage now). :hmmm:

[TDK1044]

I want to know when Neal will be sent a beta copy of SH5 to preview? I remember Neal was sent a beta copy of both SH2 and SH3 well before release, which he independently previewed, but it didn't happen with SH4 (all Neal got was a controlled demo of what Ubisoft wanted him to see)...and we all know the state SH4 was in upon release...which is why I ask my question, considering it's now a mere 8 weeks until release (and we should be well past beta stage now). :hmmm:

DEV Q&A

Q: Will Neal Stevens at subsim get access to a Beta version of the game for review?

A: Giving someone who could potentially increase sales of the product a Beta copy of the game for review is an interesting idea. For that reason, we won't do it.

[JScones]

:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

So true, oh so true...

[sharkbit]

IF SH5 is SHIII in SH4+ engine without addressing all those points then :down:.


That pretty sums it up for me.
:)

[mookiemookie]

DEV Q&A

Q: Will Neal Stevens at subsim get access to a Beta version of the game for review?

A: We maybe might possibly consider this as a topic of future discussions at a later future date.

[THE_MASK]

A: We maybe might possibly consider this as a topic of future discussions at a later future date.We are working on this right now; we thought about it and discussed it since the game was started. but you get what you get .

[Jimbuna]

dev q&a

q: Will neal stevens at subsim get access to a beta version of the game for review?

A: Giving someone who could potentially increase sales of the product a beta copy of the game for review is an interesting idea. For that reason, we won't do it.

classic!! :dl

[Adriatico]

That pretty sums it up for me.
:)

http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/769/forum.jpg
:nope:

[Deep Dive]

I found in a monthly magazine an interview of Dan Dimitrescu about SH5

What i find very interesting is his answer about the new dynamic campaign

"A typical SH5 patrol may start with the player sent to inert an axis agent on the coast of North Africa.Succeeding in this task will increase the level of intelligence you get from the area, and this in turn makes it easier to intercept their shipping.A week later, you might get an update about a supply convoy leaving for Malta.If you choose to go ahead and intercept them, and sink the tankers in convoys such as this, you might bring the island fortress to its knees.Like in real history, this doesn't mean they'll surrender straight away, but the bombers based there will lose some of their effectiveness, and the allies will launch Operation Pedestal." Dan Dimitrescu

WOW :rock:

[robbythesub]

My opinion as someone who thinks SH3 modded is the best game ever, is that as long as SH5 keeps the basics of SH3, but improves some key areas, then it will be a great hit.
For me, the missing imperitives in SH3 that would really enhance SH5 are-

1. Wolf packs interactive, with realistic radio received orders that you need to act on, rather than the historic but meaningless ones we get in SH3.

2. More variations in the weather, ie proper showers, rainbows and cloud formations, maybe even snow in some areas at the right times of year.

3. Medics who actually do something to help injured crew.

4. Better sound effect, an area where I feel SH3 lacks considerably.

I realise that some of these features will require a very strong PC but this wont deter those of us who update regularly!

I for one am very much looking forward to this latest version in this series.

;)

[Onkel Neal]

I want to know when Neal will be sent a beta copy of SH5 to preview? I remember Neal was sent a beta copy of both SH2 and SH3 well before release, which he independently previewed, but it didn't happen with SH4 (all Neal got was a controlled demo of what Ubisoft wanted him to see)...and we all know the state SH4 was in upon release...which is why I ask my question, considering it's now a mere 8 weeks or so until release (and we should be well past beta stage now). :hmmm:

I would like to know that myself :haha:

[JScones]

T'is a shame that they extend the "blackout" to you too, Neal, a person I suspect holds great influence over not just the members here, but anyone who would find your independent preview, based on actually playing the game, on-line. I remember well yours and Drebbel's updates prior to SH3 release...and you'll notice I wasn't a member here then.

Oh well, hope things change. :up:

[AAtaman]

So once you strip away the usual rhetoric, what can we really expect from Silent Hunter V? We've now seen some 'in game' videos and screenshots. We've also seen an interview with Dan. I'm sure there's more to come.

I think a pattern is evolving that shows us that we can basically expect a graphically improved, bells and whistles version of Silent Hunter IV patched to 1.5, with the addition of the 'first person' to give a much better crew interraction.

Reading between the lines, I don't believe it will be a SIM, although I think that it will be very modable. I also don't believe it will be an Arcade Game. I believe it will be a video game that can be modded up by the usual suspects, or dumbed way down using the Options tab.

I think that Ubisoft are pinning their hopes on the casual gamers to increase sales with this version of the Silent Hunter series. That won't please many here, but if allowing the game to be dumbed down via 'Options' increases sales and guarantees the continuation of the franchise, then it's not an issue as long as the game is very modable for those of us seeking a more realistic experience.

Based on what I've seen, I like the look and feel of Silent Hunter V. I think the Devs have taken on board observations and some criticism from members here, and I think they have done their best to deliver the standard of game demanded here, while also giving their employer what it demands from the game.

My greatest wish is that it's finished when it's released. I was disappointed with both SHIII and SHIV in that regard. To have to patch a game within a month of its release in order to fix 'game critical' issues is laughable, and I really hope that Ubisoft doesn't take us down that road again.

So, as we all wait for March 2010, I have more hope for SHV than I ever did for SHIII or SHIV.

What do you guys think?

The things i expect are,

1)Extreme realism
2)Many ways of upgrading my U-Boat,something like SH3.
3)It must be harder than SH3 and SH4.No U-Boat captain in WW2 had a tonnage of 200000-250000 in one patrol.
4)Smarter enemy.
5)Better communication.I have 1 torpedo left,%70 hull damage and in the middle of atlantic and request permision for returning to base.Answer is "Be more agressive"...Ok darling
6)Good atmosfhere of horror.When depht charged
7)Wolfpacks must be historically used.

[Uber Gruber]

I have 1 torpedo left,%70 hull damage and in the middle of atlantic and request permision for returning to base.Answer is "Be more agressive"...Ok darling

:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:Brilliant!

[Jimbuna]

T'is a shame that they extend the "blackout" to you too, Neal, a person I suspect holds great influence over not just the members here, but anyone who would find your independent preview, based on actually playing the game, on-line. I remember well yours and Drebbel's updates prior to SH3 release...and you'll notice I wasn't a member here then.

Oh well, hope things change. :up:

Agreed....blasphemy, stone those Ubi heretics in suits :stare:

:03:

[Uber Gruber]

Oh no, i've accidently created a religion...for buddah's sake yer all individuals, yer all different!

[JScones]

Yes, we are all different, just like everybody else.

:D