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DarthVrooks
11-12-09, 08:47 PM
By HENRY FOUNTAIN (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/f/henry_fountain/index.html?inline=nyt-per)
Published: November 12, 2009


Researchers on Thursday announced the discovery of two World War II Japanese submarines, including one meant to carry aircraft for attacks on American cities and the Panama Canal, in deep water off Hawaii, where they were sunk 63 years ago.


The submarines, among five that were captured by American forces at the end of the war and brought to Pearl Harbor for study, were found off Oahu at a depth of about 2,600 feet using submersibles from the Hawaii Undersea Research Laboratory (http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/HURL/), which is financed by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and located at the University of Hawaii (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/university_of_hawaii/index.html?inline=nyt-org) at Manoa. The five were towed to sea in 1946 and torpedoed, and the researchers said one reason for that was to avoid having to share any of the technology with the Russian military.
One of the Japanese craft, the I-201, was capable of speeds of about 20 knots while submerged, making it among the fastest diesel submarines ever made. Like other Japanese subs, it had a rubberized coating on the hull, an innovation intended to make it less apparent to sonar or radar.
The other, the I-14, was much larger and slower and designed to carry two small planes, Aichi M6A Seirans. The aircraft, which had folding wings and tails and could carry a torpedo or 1,800-pound bomb, were housed in watertight hangars inside the submarine. They could be brought onto the deck and launched by a catapult. (The only existing Seiran is in the hands of the Smithsonian.)
Together with the discovery four years ago of the I-401, one of two Japanese vessels that were the largest nonnuclear submarines ever built, the finding “really gives us a cross section of some of the great late-war technology” Japan possessed, said Hans K. van Tilburg, of the national marine sanctuaries program at NOAA (http://www.noaa.gov/).
The search was also sponsored by the National Geographic Channel (http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/), which produced a documentary to be broadcast next Tuesday.
Terry Kerby, the laboratory’s operations director and chief pilot, said his group had been searching for wrecks from the World War II era wrecks since 1992 during “test and trial” dives, in which crews check out the submersibles’ systems before undertaking major scientific explorations. “The big ‘I’ boats have been high on our list,” Mr. Kerby said at a telephone news conference announcing the latest finds.
Mr. Kerby said the discovery of the I-401 helped lead the researchers to the I-14. When the I-401 was announced, retired Navy personnel contacted the laboratory to describe what happened to some of the other subs. One sailor provided 16-millimeter footage he had taken of the I-14 being torpedoed. While shooting the event, he panned the camera to show Diamond Head and other features on the coast.
“We were able to pick some landmarks and triangulate and get a rough position of where the I-14 went down,” Mr. Kerby said.
While the submarines were meant to threaten the United States directly, none of the attacks occurred. The subs were developed too late in the war, and American intelligence was too good. Carl Boyd, a former history professor at Old Dominion University (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/o/old_dominion_university/index.html?inline=nyt-org) and co-author of “The Japanese Submarine Force and World War II,” said the Navy always knew what the subs were doing.
Mr. Boyd, who was not involved in the discoveries, said that keeping the technology out of Russian hands was only one reason for sinking the subs in 1946. Another was the condition of the vessels: they were filthy — they had been crawling with rats when captured — and generally unreliable. “We gained as much as we could out of them,” he said. “The things just weren’t safe.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/13/science/13wreck.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Torplexed
11-12-09, 09:37 PM
Interesting stuff. The primary reason there are no existing I-Boats today is that the remaining examples were all scuttled by the USN.

Another was the condition of the vessels: they were filthy — they had been crawling with rats when captured — and generally unreliable.Yeah...I've read US ships had to moor well upwind of captured Japanese subs, the sanitary conditions on board at the end of the war were so poor.

Catfish
11-13-09, 07:17 AM
Hello,
from the OFF forum - one of the makers of the "Over Flanders Fields" sim is actually part of the team that found those, and made a documentary about those subs.

There is a National Geographic Channel special on November 17,
9 PM entitled "Hunt for the Samurai Subs".

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/hunt-for-the-samurai-subs-4577/Overview

Quote from Polovski:

" ... Terry Kerby who heads the Deep Sea Operations at the Hawaii University Reasearch Lab (HURL). Terry is affectionately known to us as Makai and has done some amazing work on OFF: BHaH. He is responsible for skinning the DFW C.IV/V, Pfalz D.III, Alb D.II, Fokker Dr.1 and worked with me on the Fokker D.VII series of aircraft skins as well.

The show will focus on exploring deep into the Pacific Ocean off the coat of Oahu Island to seek out the I-400 and I-401 class Japaneese attack subs. These two submaries are recorded as the worlds largest Diesel powered craft ever to be built at a jaw-dropping 400+ feet long each. They allowed the for the storage of 3 dive bomber type floatation aircraft to be released from a hanger built into the conning tower. The plan for these subs was to attack a major U.S. naval base in the Pacific. But these subs were promptly handed over to the US Navy shortly after Japan signed the documents declaring surrender and ending WWII. The subs were then tested and inspected by the US Navy and scuttled shortly afterward when Russian Scientists demanded access to them.

The show will bring you up and close with computer generated models of the original submarine designs, re-enactments, and actual footage from the subs piloted by Terry. Nat Geo will take you on board the main support vessel that carries the subs across the ocean to the diving site as well... so we'll get to see what life is like for Terry out at sea. Like any other show Nat Geo does, this one promises to be outstanding! ..."


Just a reminder ;-)

Greetings,
Catfish

Oberon
11-13-09, 07:40 AM
Christ, when you think about it...that's only about 150 ft shorter than a Typhoon... :dead:
Rubber coated hulls as well :o

geetrue
11-13-09, 08:20 PM
The first US Navy inspectors after the war was over of these I boats said that the head just had a place for the feet and a couple of holes in the floor ... yuck!

Jimbuna
11-13-09, 08:32 PM
The first US Navy inspectors after the war was over of these I boats said that the head just had a place for the feet and a couple of holes in the floor ... yuck!

Now we know why they were slanty eyed......all that 'holding it in' :dead:

Platapus
11-13-09, 08:37 PM
Trivia question:

The I-401 was the longest non-nuclear Submarine built at 120M.

What was the longest US non-nuclear Submarine built?

:D

Jimbuna
11-14-09, 09:23 AM
Trivia question:

The I-401 was the longest non-nuclear Submarine built at 120M.

What was the longest US non-nuclear Submarine built?

:D

USS Argonaut

Platapus
11-14-09, 09:42 AM
USS Argonaut

Excellent!!!

I was afraid the answer would be the Narwhal/Nautilus which were big, but 6 meters shorter than the Argonaut

You rock! :salute:

Platapus
11-14-09, 09:46 AM
Let's make it a bit trickier.

After WWII, what was the longest non-nuclear US Submarine and what was it's unusual mission?

(snicker)

Jimbuna
11-14-09, 09:50 AM
Hey!...where's the prize....money will do just fine :stare:

I know the other one too....but we'll give someone else a chance :smug:

Platapus
11-14-09, 01:02 PM
Hey!...where's the prize....money will do just fine :stare:



The prize is my admiration. That and a green light will get you halfway across a street though. :D

Jimbuna
11-14-09, 05:49 PM
The prize is my admiration. That and a green light will get you halfway across a street though. :D

LOL :DL

Doesn't look like anyone is stepping forward, I'll gve them a clue:

It wasn't USS Halibut at 110m....she began as a diesel but was finished as a nuclear boat and was designed to launch guided missiles.

Platapus
11-14-09, 06:41 PM
And it really wasn't an attack type submarine either..... :D

Jimbuna
11-14-09, 08:01 PM
And it really wasn't an attack type submarine either..... :D

You've got me wondering now if the two boats I'm thinking of are the correct vessels :hmmm:

Platapus
11-14-09, 09:06 PM
I seriously doubt I can come up with a US sub trivia question you can't noodle out

Jimbuna
11-15-09, 07:34 AM
I seriously doubt I can come up with a US sub trivia question you can't noodle out

Well unless you have trickery in mind, I'm thinking in terms of a US diesel man of war/military platform with an offensive capability....not that her mission was actually 'offensive' :hmmm:

Platapus
11-15-09, 09:51 AM
To be accurate, these submarines (there were only two) were refitted and later in their career they were reclassified as attack submarines, but that's not what they were originally built for.

nb Woot 4k posts!

August
11-15-09, 10:54 AM
To be accurate, these submarines (there were only two) were refitted and later in their career they were reclassified as attack submarines, but that's not what they were originally built for.

nb Woot 4k posts!

USS Sailfish and USS Salmon?

Jimbuna
11-15-09, 02:01 PM
You've got me wondering now if the two boats I'm thinking of are the correct vessels :hmmm:

USS Sailfish and USS Salmon?

Thanks August....was waiting to see if someone else would come in.....you missed the reason for building though....'radar pickets' http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

August
11-15-09, 04:29 PM
It was pretty much a wild ass guess based on an hour or so poking around the internet. If it were a test i'd have failed miserably! :DL

Jimbuna
11-15-09, 04:45 PM
It was pretty much a wild ass guess based on an hour or so poking around the internet. If it were a test i'd have failed miserably! :DL

Don't be so hard on yourself.....the correct answer was always the mission objective and in that you succeeded http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

Let us hope he doesn't ask for the crew lists next http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/wacko.gif

Platapus
11-15-09, 08:01 PM
No, no crew lists I am afraid.

A few weeks ago I was doing some research and came across the Radar Picket effort, especially in late 45. Pretty interesting stuff :yeah:

But yes the answer is the SSR-572 Salefish and SSR-573 Salmon. Radar Picket Submarines

They were 110 meters long making them the longest non-nuclear submarine post WWII

They remained the longest submarine in the US inventory until the launching of .........?

:D

Torplexed
11-15-09, 08:20 PM
They remained the longest submarine in the US inventory until the launching of .........?

:D

USS Triton? (SSRN-586)

August
11-15-09, 08:29 PM
I wonder in what shape are these Japanese subs? Can they be raised? Are there pictures?

Platapus
11-15-09, 08:38 PM
USS Triton? (SSRN-586)

Righto.

I knew I could not get away with that question.

:salute:

Torplexed
11-15-09, 08:40 PM
I wonder in what shape are these Japanese subs? Can they be raised?


Considering the method of scuttling--torpedo--they gotta be a bit messed up.

August
11-15-09, 09:20 PM
Considering the method of scuttling--torpedo--they gotta be a bit messed up.

Yeah I guess so. Pity.

I-25
11-16-09, 01:07 AM
humm this ain't new news. i think back on 2006 they were first found.

geetrue
11-16-09, 04:31 AM
Here's the the biggest and the best USN diesel submarine not another sub was ever designed or finished this big after she was launched in 1956.

USS Salmon SS-573(Sailfish class of two built as SSR)

http://www.theworldwideweather.com/contac4.gif

She was my first boat when I was 19 for two years back in 64 and 65

The way the story goes the USS Sailfish SS-572 was 350' long, but the USS Salmon measured out at 350' plus 6" to be the biggest of the two.


USS Sailfish SS-572

http://www.theworldwideweather.com/contac7.jpg


Of course the best came in 65 when Admiral Nitmiz himself awarded us the crew and officers and men of the USS Salmon the 5th Gold E award for battle efficency.

It all boils down to what Japan could've done, but wasn't able to do ... due to supply restrictions, bad commands, indesive behavior, etc.

I never had any doubt in my mind that we would have done our job well if there had of been a war to fight.

The mid sixties in the USN was exciting, because we didn't know where we were going. We just knew we had to get there.

Torplexed
11-16-09, 09:20 AM
USS Sailfish SS-572

http://www.theworldwideweather.com/contac7.jpg



geetrue, you've pointed one of the biggest oversights in SH4. If there are nurses waiting on the dock in SH3, why are there no hula girls waiting with baskets of leis in SH4? :D

Jimbuna
11-16-09, 03:30 PM
USS Triton? (SSRN-586)

:yeah: 136.4m

August
11-16-09, 07:56 PM
This one should be easy for you guys.

What was the name of the first US sub to have a teardrop shape?

Catfish
11-16-09, 08:19 PM
USS Albacore (AGSS-569)

Greetings,
Catfish

P.S. will someone actually be able to see this national geographic documentation about the Japanese subs ? (not being shown in Germany arrgh)

August
11-16-09, 08:20 PM
USS Albacore (AGSS-569)

Greetings,
Catfish

We have a winner!