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Webster
10-24-09, 01:59 PM
Webster's S-Class Mod for v1.4 & v1.5
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This mod is my interpretation of what the s-class boats were really like in real life. It is what I feel is a fairly accurate portrayal of a WW2 S-Class submarine. My goal was to give you the realistic feeling of being in a 20 year old very fragile boat with limited range and little armor that was unable to dive deep and can be sunk very easy without needing a lot of damage to do it. I also added a lot of rust to make them look more like you would expect a 20 yr old obsolete boat that was about to be scrapped at the beginning of the war to look like.

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My understanding of the American S-Class Submarines of WW2


These were the oldest of all the American submarines to ever see combat action in the Pacific Theater during World War 2. They were built between 1918-1925 and weren’t anywhere near up to the standards of the newer fleet submarines being built when the war started and were being replaced as obsolete.

The American S-Class submarine was a submarine built after World War I and this old obsolete boat was certainly not in any sort of condition for going to war against Japan.

When the war started these boats, while still able to do their jobs, were better suited for heading to the scrap yards then for going into combat.

They were very old and slow with very thin armor and their diving ability was limited due to the weakened rusty 20 year old hulls. Sub commanders knew the depths you could reach with any degree of safety was a guessing game at best.

Because of this, most commanders stayed well above the recorded test depth of 200 feet which was the recommended test depth for a brand new s-boat.

After the war started these "Pigboats" were reluctantly pressed into service during the early days of the war against Japan due to the U.S. Navy's severe shortage of fleet boats.

They were old, obsolete, underpowered, and the hulls were riveted together and not welded so that riveted construction along with the 20 years worth of rust, made the sub hulls very weak and unable to withstand very much damage by the time the war started.

They often suffered from numerous mechanical failures and frequent equipment problems along with limited fuel and battery ranges in addition to being inadequately armored to defend themselves against being attacked.

Sailors on these boats did their best to maintain them but they truly were “at risk” just by being at sea in one of these old, slow, worn out, obsolete boats.

These boats were often purposely assigned to some of the least important patrol areas or given recon or spy insertion or pickup missions. Even with their diminished roles however, the S-class submarines still accounted for sinking 14 Japanese ships.

Although these boats were relegated to being nothing more than a submarine training vessel by the latter stages of the war, they served their country valiantly and with distinction against tremendous odds and many were highly decorated for their actions.

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Warning: This mod makes it very hard to stay alive if attacked, but I think it gives you a realistic feel for how dangerous these boats were to serve on in real life. With this mod a destroyer dropping charges does not need to be on target, if he gets close to you it is usually good enough to sink you so use extreme caution in planning your attacks and don’t take any risks you don’t have to, just as it was in real life.

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Changes made by this mod:


S-Boat Skin:

Stock had an early war dark skin with a little rust and a late war silver skin with a little rust on it, I took the darker early war skins and I added a lot more rust to it and I added a more dirty weathered look so the skin really looks like a rusty 20 year old boat now. The early war and late war boats will now both use the same dark colored rusty skin.


Crush Depth:

Stock crush depth is 300 ft and in this mod I reset the crush depth to only 200 ft to simulate the 20 year old weakened hull


Hull Strength:

To simulate the 20 years of wear and tear and rust, along with riveted design construction, this mod reduces hull strength and armor levels to about 25% of the stock levels so it doesn’t take much to sink you.


Dive Speeds: (I couldn’t do much with the dive times but I did what I could to make them longer then stock times)

Crash dive from 6 kts @ ahead std - stock time was 20-22 seconds, my mod has it at 28-30 seconds

Dive to periscope depth @ 10 kts - stock time is 70 seconds to the level off point, my mod has it at 100 seconds


Fuel Range: (wikipedia data says new s-boats had a surfaced range of 5,000 nm)

Using my mod, flank gets a range of 1,900 nm

Using my mod, ahead std gets a range of 4,700 nm


Speed Settings:

Diesel - flank 10kts, ahead full 8 kts, ahead std 6kts, 2/3 4kts, 1/3 2kts

Electric - flank 7kts, ahead full 6 kts, ahead std 4kts, 2/3 3kts, 1/3 1kts


Batteries: (tested at 0 kts, submerged at periscope depth, and a fully charged battery)

@ ahead flank (7kts) - Battery lasts 2 hours and 40 minutes until battery discharged warning

@ ahead std (5kts) - Battery lasts 3 hours and 20 minutes until battery discharged warning

@ ahead 1/3 (1kt) - Battery lasts 22 hours and 50 minutes until battery discharged warning

- Stock battery lasts 55 hours to 60 hours until you get the battery discharged warning


Battery Charging:

Stock battery recharge time to fully recharge from the 10% charge warning or the battery discharged warning for s-boats was a ridiculously long 55-60 hours, with this mod it takes only 1 hour 15 minutes.

I feel that the recharge times are now too short to be realistic but it was necessary to set it there so that other things related to battery life would work properly.

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I wish to thank AVGWarhawk for his helpfull knowledge of s-boats and VonHesse who spent a lot of time running tests on this mod. thanks also go to Ducimus and ETR3(SS) and probably a few others i forgot to mention. I wish to thank everyone who helped with advice or assistance with this mod.

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This mod works for both v1.4 and v1.5 of the game, if any conflicts show up with other mods then just install this mod last and overwrite any files.

Install info:
As with all my mods, this mod is jsgme ready and it includes a read me file. Open the downloaded zip file and then open the mod folder.

Inside the mod folder is the "read me" that will tell you all about the mod and the folder next to it is the actual mod itself and that is the folder you need to put into jsgme.


Enjoy!

Webster



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Downloads: SUBSIM (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1455) or Filefront (http://www.filefront.com/15122955/Websters-S-Class-Mod-for-v1.4--v1.5.7z/)

Task Force
12-13-09, 01:36 AM
Very nice, didnt even knotice it before.:up:

vanjast
12-13-09, 03:54 AM
Yeah.. goodie :yeah:

Now the fun begins... :salute:

Bubblehead1980
12-13-09, 04:56 AM
very nice, although i think crush depth of 200 feet is a bit much, test depth was 200, read about a few s boats going to 230 or so, just an fYI when you make future adjustments.

Also, any idea if this works well with TMO 1.9? Looking forward to trying it out, thanks for your work.

Webster
12-13-09, 12:35 PM
very nice, although i think crush depth of 200 feet is a bit much, test depth was 200, read about a few s boats going to 230 or so, just an fYI when you make future adjustments.

Also, any idea if this works well with TMO 1.9? Looking forward to trying it out, thanks for your work.

straight from wikipedia and verified by numerous other sources:

S18 Type
Test Depth 200 ft / 60 m
Crush Depth: 300 ft (approx) / 90m (approx)

S42 Type
Test Depth 200 ft / 60 m
Crush Depth: 300 ft (approx) / 90m (approx)

and as you stated yourself there are reports they went to 200+ on occassion, with this mod you get to 205 and your not comming back :dead:

sergei
12-13-09, 01:43 PM
very nice, although i think crush depth of 200 feet is a bit much, test depth was 200, read about a few s boats going to 230 or so, just an fYI when you make future adjustments.

Then again I have read a few accounts of S Boats leaking at about 150ft, so maybe 200ft is a good compromise number.
It also gives you a good chance of getting under the layer, which looks to be a must for this now very fragile boat!

VonHesse
12-13-09, 03:09 PM
Woot, woot!:woot: It's here, it's here, the Pig of Doom is here!:woot:

O.k. all you super-captains. That's right, you. Used to coming home with 100,000 tons? Used to getting fists full of medals? Used to perfect set-ups and long loiter times? Used to having your way and devastating convoys? Well not anymore. The Pig of Doom is here to bring you back down to earth.

Go ahead. Give this mod a go... if you've got the stones for it. The "gravy days" are no more. If you're good enough, and smart enough, sneaky enough, patient enough, and most importantly lucky enough, you might just live long enough to get used to making it home alive... and I stress "might".

So come on, HERO. Come get some. The Pig of Doom is now accepting all takers... Next stop - Davey Jones's Locker :salute:

Hitman
12-13-09, 03:19 PM
Dargn, this is the additional challenge any realism freak would want :DL

I am used to play with the S Boat without TDC, making only zero and 90º shots, but this mod might be even too much for me :haha:

Bubblehead1980
12-13-09, 07:28 PM
I also do not use TDC in S boats unless playing in 43(some S boats had TDC installed in 43) Not that hard just have to update info until the moment you fire since no PK.

Looking forward to trying this out but scared it might do something to TMO and do not want to do that, oh the agony:-?

After reading some books on S boats, understood what crappy conditions the Pigboat sailors lived and fought it, gave me a whole new respect.

Webster
12-13-09, 07:51 PM
I also do not use TDC in S boats unless playing in 43(some S boats had TDC installed in 43) Not that hard just have to update info until the moment you fire since no PK.

Looking forward to trying this out but scared it might do something to TMO and do not want to do that, oh the agony:-?

After reading some books on S boats, understood what crappy conditions the Pigboat sailors lived and fought it, gave me a whole new respect.



this mod should have a very realistic feel to it

Sailor Steve
12-13-09, 09:13 PM
It's evil!

It sux!

I love it!
:rock:


But Webster, did you know that you didn't create it? Your Subsim Downloads link says that it was uploaded by you, but created by Unknown. At least you gave the poor guy credit.
:rotfl2:

Webster
12-13-09, 11:19 PM
lol, ok i'll go fix that :up:

XTBilly
12-14-09, 06:06 AM
Webster, reading your post I was amazed..
New horizons opening in realism !!:DL

Double thinking before attacking that juicy, well-protected convoy.

Before I try it, please confirm that it works with GFO.
I can't play anymore without GFO.:oops:

Thanks for your awesome work!!:yeah:
Billy.

Radio
12-14-09, 06:36 AM
Nice work, Webster, can't wait to try this asap!:salute::up:

Sniper297
12-14-09, 03:01 PM
Scuttlebutt has it, the Germans designed a bunch of different type U boats in World War 1. In 1915 they designed one that was such a dog they never put it into production, and it was THAT one the Sugar boats were copied from.

:dead:

Webster
12-14-09, 03:31 PM
Webster, reading your post I was amazed..
New horizons opening in realism !!:DL

Double thinking before attacking that juicy, well-protected convoy.

Before I try it, please confirm that it works with GFO.
I can't play anymore without GFO.:oops:

Thanks for your awesome work!!:yeah:
Billy.

while i will say i think that it will work with any mod i cant say i am 100% certain

but i can say it is 100% GFO compatable :up:

XTBilly
12-15-09, 02:27 AM
while i will say i am pretty sure that it will work with any mod i cant say i am 100% certain

but i can say it is 100% GFO compatable :up:

Thanks !!!:)

Downloading now !!!:salute:

vanjast
12-15-09, 04:35 PM
Working with GFO..:yeah:

Put to sea off Manila in my new S18, took a longgg time to get the east coast off Leyte gulf.

Employed my favourite 'ostrich' tactic and picked up a contact at about 15Nm, bearing 355. Monitored for 10 minutes and found it moving eastward... surfaced and set course 30, at flank speed for 1 hour. Submerged again to do a sonar scan and found they'd passed me and were on a bearing of 50.
$%%^ subs bloody slow :up:, but that's good...:know:
but I wasn't chasing as they were destroyers, that I could just make out through the scope.. so I'm back to 'ostrich mode'... :O:

Rockin Robbins
12-15-09, 07:21 PM
"Chasing" is kind of a relative term in a sugar boat!:DL

Webster, after von Hesse's post, if you don't officially name this the "S-Boat: Pig of Doom" mod you're missing a prime promotional opportunity!:har:

I'm serious, that name is truly inspired.

Bubblehead1980
12-15-09, 09:21 PM
This mod made TMO 1.9 act kind of funny when i loaded it, when i disabled it, TMO is fine.

Would love to use it with TMO.Any hope of a TMO compatible version? :yeah:

I enjoy the s boats and think this would be great.Eh

Webster
12-15-09, 10:26 PM
This mod made TMO 1.9 act kind of funny when i loaded it, when i disabled it, TMO is fine.

Would love to use it with TMO.Any hope of a TMO compatible version? :yeah:

I enjoy the s boats and think this would be great.Eh

i'll check with him but this mod should have no conflict with tmo so i suspect you have some mod soup issue going on there

AVGWarhawk
12-16-09, 11:30 AM
Looks like David Dutch is loving the mod. :yeah: His dissertation of S-41 shows what a troublesome patrol these boats provided. Although S-41 did sink 4! Nice work Webster.

Wilcke
12-16-09, 11:51 AM
Well done man! A definate must have for SH4.

keltos01
12-16-09, 03:57 PM
now that sounds like a boat worthy of a Jyunsen 1M captain :salute:

same test depth :D

Arrigato Webster-san !

keltos

AVGWarhawk
12-16-09, 03:59 PM
Oh yes! S-41's presently looking for trouble in the Sulu Sea. Too bad SHIV doesn't have randomized malfunctions.

Good to hear. This was Webster's intention...having fun with it as it frustrates the hell out of you for being what it was.....old, tired and worn out. But these boats were the little engines that could...for the most part.

Webster
12-17-09, 11:38 AM
glad to hear you guys like it :up:

vanjast
12-18-09, 02:38 PM
It's all in the planning...

With Real Navigation
The large circle is my patrol area.. I choose a 'possible' choke point with the small circle being my maximum passive sonar range. Here I sit and wait.
http://www.vanjast.com/SHPics/PatrolZone.jpg

My first contact are destroyers that I let go..Well there was no ways I could catch them... My reasoning is that they must be a scout force (if this is possible in the game) for a larger force..
36 hours later a big contact is heard on the sonar., and after 3 hours of 'chasing' (sugar boat special :D) my tail.. I'm in position... I notice a big ship in the distance, so line it up. (adjusted brightness so you can see it)

http://www.vanjast.com/SHPics/BigShip.jpg

Fire all four torps... The first torp hit right under the 2nd turrent, and it went up like guy fawkes.. The whole scope screen turned white (I was too slow on the screen grab) ... this was a big bang, but crashed dived to 195 feet immediately... the other 3 torps hit something but I couldn't see it
http://www.vanjast.com/SHPics/Log.jpg

Now came the stressfull bit, as I dived only to 195 feet and went directly under the ship line and out the back of the convoy. I was pinged 5 times but got away.. and I estimate at least 7 escorts roaming around up top..

I enjoyed this encounter, always with the worring factor of my S18s vulnerability in mind...
Thanks Webster for giving me grey hair...:D

VonHesse
12-28-09, 07:42 PM
Well WEBSTER, you spoiled me, and now you have to hear about it. I absolutely love this weaker, slower S-Boat. Got 15 patrols in for 700,000+ tons, and lovin every minute of it. However...

It's December of 1943, and I've been forcibly retired! I thought it might happen eventually since I kept turning down new boats, but I had hoped that maybe you changed the availibility dates to let us ride out the whole war in your rusty death-trap. Since not, I have a few light-hearted requests:

1) Could you change the availibility dates to allow us to run the S-Boats for the whole war? Also, would it be possible to change your home port to Dutch Harbor after 1943 like in RL? If there were a refit port at the end of the Aleutian Islands (Kiska or Attu, IIRC) then we'd be able to raid Japanese home waters in our S-Boats. Was looking forward to that...

2) When I got the AA upgrade, it reduced my deck gun speed by half. The reason is that one of the deck gunner slots was now being used for the AA gunner. Any way to add an extra crew slot for the deck gun? Seemed a little unfair that subcompac would reward my good performance with a new AA gun, but force my deck gun to operate slower. Heck, I get half my weight from the deck gun.

Anyways, just wanted to say good job, now I'm hooked. The new S-Boat is soo immersive. You have to pay attention to every little detail - things I never cared about in fleetboats - and that makes it so much more fun. Thank you sir:rock:

BTW, I don't expect you to rush out and change this up just for me. Just a couple of thoughts. I have no idea if those two things are even possible or if your interested in looking at them, but it doesn't hurt to ask (I hope)

Cheers. Keep up the good work and you're gonna find yourself a write-in candidate for president. You've already got my vote. Think of the campain slogan...

"Vote WEBSTER, he gets s**t done":arrgh!:

vanjast
12-31-09, 07:25 PM
Well after my great start, base moved to Java, I had 3 weeks of 'monsoon' type weather as I ventured north to the Luzon straights and back down the west coast to Manila. I missed a convoy which was moving too fast, and 2 days later a task force (I could hear the turbines fade away :damn:).

I consoled my crew that we had to go to Java and refuel on the way, otherwise we'd be out of range of our bases as the axis forces were overrunning our fuel depots.

We ran into a few friendly ships, warning them of the 'tide', and a week later refueled at our last outpost. We'd been 5 weeks at sea, so I decided to head for Java at full speed, as we needed an update on the current situation.

Arrived at Java 3 days later, refitted and left a week later for the Celebes sea..
Arrived on station.. all is tense a the moment.
25% fuel to get here... We have to sit and wait !!
:arrgh!:

Forgot to mention... I got a medal .. means nothing to me.. another piece of 'political garbage'!!

keltos01
01-01-10, 04:41 AM
I really like that sub !

I think you should replace the AA gun with the .50 machine gun like we did on the narwhal, then you'll really be watching out even on the surface !

keltos

Webster
01-01-10, 12:33 PM
I really like that sub !

I think you should replace the AA gun with the .50 machine gun like we did on the narwhal, then you'll really be watching out even on the surface !

keltos

thats my SOP of trying to leave items of choice like that up to the player

i kinda figured i would leave he gun as is and let the player decide that but i have been thinking i should just go ahead and do it because it would be more realistic to have the 50cal for the s-boat and even thou im not known for being a rivet counter, the point of this mod WAS trying for a realistic experience in the s-boat.

keltos01
01-01-10, 01:14 PM
thats my SOP of trying to leave items of choice like that up to the player

i kinda figured i would leave he gun as is and let the player decide that but i have been thinking i should just go ahead and do it because it would be more realistic to have the 50cal for the s-boat and even thou im not known for being a rivet counter, the point of this mod WAS trying for a realistic experience in the s-boat.


I have a .50 machine gun mod made for me by peabody for my narwhal here if you want :



keltos

Webster
04-06-10, 10:52 PM
so i havent heard anything about this mod since jan 1st so i assume everyones happy with it?

VonHesse
04-07-10, 12:41 AM
I'm still lovin it. Tried the Baltic mod for awhile, but now I'm back to GFO + S-Boat mod. I believe I've found the only mods I need, and don't see myself ever changing.

Like the man said, "She's old, but she'll hold." :salute:

Thanks again Webster.

james_nix
02-15-16, 07:56 PM
I know this is an old thread but I just started using this mod over the weekend.


I love s-boats and last night I attacked a convoy and went deep, 200 feet!

Sitting in the control room and just hearing the destroyers engines up top knowing that you can't go any deeper was really tense and fun.

Webster
02-17-16, 08:39 PM
glad you liked it

often you cant go below 150 ft if you have ANY hull damage.

they really are fun little boats that make you sweat it out like they did for real.

nrnstraswa
02-21-16, 03:30 PM
Awesome mod! Yay for S class realism!

xXNightEagleXx
03-04-16, 04:32 PM
Does this mod offers a more realistic experience for S class over rfb 2.0 or is the other way?

Webster
03-04-16, 06:42 PM
Does this mod offers a more realistic experience for S class over rfb 2.0 or is the other way?

I think it does,

try both and decide for yourself, but last I was aware, neither TMO, FOTRS, or RFB modded anything for the s-boats beyond simple draft heights (how they sit in the water)

xXNightEagleXx
03-04-16, 10:16 PM
I think it does,

try both and decide for yourself, but last I was aware, neither TMO, FOTRS, or RFB modded anything for the s-boats beyond simple draft heights (how they sit in the water)


Is this mod compatible with GFO?

Webster
03-05-16, 03:51 PM
Is this mod compatible with GFO?

yes, almost any mod other then TMO, RFB, or FOTRS, are compatible with GFO, that's the way it was designed to be. the reasons those mods are "considered" un compatible is they change so many game files, that nothing of the GFO files will remain.

environmental mods like ISE will remove my smaller rain and a few other "visual" tweaks like seeing torp splashes at longer distances or things like that, but it doesn't break the mod or affect game play at all.

LukeFF
03-18-16, 12:32 PM
I think it does,

try both and decide for yourself, but last I was aware, neither TMO, FOTRS, or RFB modded anything for the s-boats beyond simple draft heights (how they sit in the water)

Been a long time since I ran RFB, but I recall that I modded these things as well for the S-boats:

-Max speed
-Max range
-Dive times
-Crew size/composition

Rockin Robbins
04-02-16, 08:36 AM
Both S-boats are a ton of fun! I had the most fun testing the RFB S-boat, not because of the superiority of the model, but because of the exact convoy I encountered when testing it. The convoy was restricted to 9 knots and I could do 10 submerged. I had a great time running between the columns, picking off merchies as the escorts couldn't seem to make a run at me in the clutter.

The S-boat is a gem in Silent Hunter 4. Historically it shouldn't be, but reality wouldn't be as much fun, as they were perfectly dependable in real life. You could depend on them to break. No breakdowns in SH4 makes them a study in how a brand new S-boat could have been fought.

keltos01
04-06-16, 04:56 AM
Both S-boats are a ton of fun! I had the most fun testing the RFB S-boat, not because of the superiority of the model, but because of the exact convoy I encountered when testing it. The convoy was restricted to 9 knots and I could do 10 submerged. I had a great time running between the columns, picking off merchies as the escorts couldn't seem to make a run at me in the clutter.

The S-boat is a gem in Silent Hunter 4. Historically it shouldn't be, but reality wouldn't be as much fun, as they were perfectly dependable in real life. You could depend on them to break. No breakdowns in SH4 makes them a study in how a brand new S-boat could have been fought.

"You could depend on them to break"
:rotfl2:

Webster
04-06-16, 12:00 PM
"You could depend on them to break"
:rotfl2:

from the research I did it was not uncommon for them to sink on their own from age related issues and breakdowns without even being damaged in battle. :arrgh!:

ArditoCorsaro
08-17-16, 05:17 PM
go-with-real-fleet-Boat'?

Rockin Robbins
08-18-16, 07:49 AM
I just don't like Real Fleet Boat very much. Its plotting system just destroys my enjoyment of SH4. When you're zoomed out you see the diamond plotted for a contact, but zoom into the point where the stock game would plot a silhouette and RFB plots......nothing at all.

"Radar contact! 3500 yards! Plotting, sir!"

"There it is. Let me step over and have a look.........holy smokes, it vanished!"


"Sir, you're standing too close to the chart table. Back off a bit and you'll see it."

Yes, it's the old "that plotting system isn't realistic" reaction, followed by "if the information is a bit unrealistic the fix is to remove ALL information." As if that were more realistic.

Sometimes we have to accept what we have as the best we're going to get. I never saw a sub conned by a crew with paper bags over their heads.

RFB is much better with the additon of the TMOPlot mod to introduce some sense into the plotting system. You can also add TMOPlot to GFO to give it the masterful TMO plotting system.

But I prefer GFO to RFB by a mile.

ArditoCorsaro
08-18-16, 02:32 PM
i-like-it.i-play-without-map-updates-for-that.