Need help with choosing mods.

[Sil]

Hello :)

I'm a new SH4 player, got this game for a few days only, and didn't even start any campaign. Well, to be honest, I earlier wasn't aware that such series exist :o :)

Anyway, I want to improve this awesome game a bit. I found your forum, realized that there are hundreds of modifications, so I spent long hours to get a hang with it. I've tested different configurations and so far I have these modes in my JSGME menu:

1. GFO mod 1.1 +patches for Real Env and RSRDC
2. Real Enviroment mod (still not sure to keep it. I saw the screens and weather effects, sunsets etc look amazing however water is to purple and too transparent for my taste)
3. RSRDC_SH15_V401 + patch 2
4. Row sound Effects v9 with some files replaced by Webster's Eax Sound Simulation
5. Lite fog&Slow water
6. ROW Sea Foam mod from Jaketoox.
7. Natural Sinking Mechanics 4.0 (installed on Uboat Mission add-on 1.5 but seems to working fine)
8. Different smoke merchant_warships mod.

I also wanted Ships Reflect and Caustic Enviroment mod but it didn't work for my configuration, it requires TMO, which I don't want to install because of lack of Free Camera on a difficulty level higher than easy (automatic targeting system? Yeah, right...)

So:
*Any suggestions for my configurations/mods?
*I'm looking for a 'debris after sinking' mod if there is something like that :) If there is - is it standalone mod or part of something bigger?
*Also looking for water foam effects mods. Specially for sinking and surfacing. Jaketoox's Sea Foam mod seems to affect only water traces (which look really nice) but I was a little confused when I ordered emergency surface to my nearly 2500 tons heavy steel monster and he emerged... with few bubbles :)

I would be grateful for any help in this matter.

[Sailor Steve]

WELCOME ABOARD!:sunny:

If you want to use TMO there are separate free cam mods floating around.

[Ducimus]

It's always amused me how some folks can't give up the external camera, which is a far greater crutch then auto TDC. :rotfl2:

BTW, the difficulty levels? They do nothing! :O:

[Sil]

WELCOME ABOARD!:sunny:

If you want to use TMO there are separate free cam mods floating around.Ha, I should guess it earlier :) I think I found one - Extended FreeCam 1.2. //EDIT Oh, it seems to be a mod for SH III :/ Pity cause internal free camera and shaking effects sound great.

Anyway... can anyone share any opinion of this TMO? What's the main idea of it? Yes, I know there is manual but I want to hear what generally should I expect - in few words.

It's always amused me how some folks can't give up the external camera, which is a far greater crutch then auto TDC.No it isn't if you don't use it for that. Simple :) Manual targeting is the only option, there is no fun without it. But I can't resist the image of sinking Battleship in flames ;)

Anyway, what's the reason for installing (and making) all of these heavy enviromental mods, with thousands of new various effects, visual improvements, ships/water/sky/clouds textures, EAX sounds if the only way to appreciate it (partially) would be taking a look through periscope lens from time to time?

[Ducimus]

I want to hear what generally should I expect - in few words.
A much harder time then what your probably used to. :)

As to cam's not being a crutch, I'm afraid i'll be a hard sell on that one. Just FYI, you know you can custom adjust what realism settings you want in the career room office right?

Anyway, what's the reason for installing (and making) all of these heavy enviromental mods, ...... if the only way to appreciate it (partially) would be taking a look through periscope lens from time to time?

Because it also looks nice from the bridge. :D

[OrangeYoshi]

As to cam's not being a crutch, I'm afraid i'll be a hard sell on that one.

I like to leave the external cam on because I like to explore (friendly) harbors, see what my boat looks like, take cool pics of sunset/sunrises, watch my target explode, and occasionally watch sit back and follow the friendly ships as I leave harbor on a patrol.

I do limit myself so that I won't use it to gain a tactical advantage in a sticky situation though. I feel that as long as I take the external cam eye candy without damaging the tactical situation when in trouble, that I'm still basically playing on 100% realism (which is why I made it so that having the external cam leaves me on 100%).

Just the other day I used the external cam (more precisely the free bridge cam in OM) to position my camera (captain) so that I was basically laying on the bow of the boat. I traveled all the way from the mouth of the Kiel Canal to that little island on the way to Scapa Flow on TC 32 just watching the waves, the sunsets and sunrises, and the birds fly around while reading a book. I took a few pictures while I was at it.

[Ducimus]

I do limit myself so that I won't use it to gain a tactical advantage in a sticky situation though.

Hmm.. sure. Lots of people say that, but i honestly don't believe that. The temptation is too great to sneak an occasional peek.

External camera is really more of a cheat. Espeically if one is playing for realism. With one press of a key you can:

- see where depth charges are falling, in order that you might know where to manuever to avoid them.

- Scroll through an entire convoy to get an idea of size , escort strength, and position

- identify and ascertain if a sound or radar contact is worth chasing from 20 NM away without ever having popped a periscope, or even surfaced.

- See where your torpedos hit and/or follow a wounded target in order to find out if more torpedo's are required or, say for instance, if that BB you tagged is falling out of formation while your being pounded by it's escorts.

etc etc,all these things give you knowledge that no submarine captain at the time period would be able to know. The external cameras give away far too much info. Not to mention it breaks the claustiphobic atmoshere that is being on a submarine. In my opinion, if you have the external cam on, your not playing 100% realism.

Eyecandy above all, sadly, is the unspoken mantra of many people. The best compromise of eyecandy to gameplay that i've been able to come up with while having the free cam enabled is to simply disable the next/previous unit cam. But if one was going for realism, then i think the best compromise is:
- is the free roaming bridge cam
- disabled next/previous unit cam
- disabled the normal free cam
- enable event cam

But If your really hardcore, then the event cam would probably go too. Personally, im not that hardcore. lol.

[OrangeYoshi]

Hmm.. sure. Lots of people say that, but i honestly don't believe that. The temptation is too great to sneak an occasional peek.
.......................

etc etc,all these things give you knowledge that no submarine captain at the time period would be able to know. The external cameras give away far too much info. Not to mention it breaks the claustiphobic atmoshere that is being on a submarine. In my opinion, if you have the external cam on, your not playing 100% realism.

It is quite tempting and sometimes hard not to look, but as long as you practice at it, it becomes normal not to look in those situations where it would give an unfair advantage.

Eyecandy above all, sadly, is the unspoken mantra of many people.......

I agree. Gameplay should always come before graphics, but what is the use of the high res textures, the better sea floor, the improved water, sky, and weather graphics if you never stop and smell the roses?

[Faamecanic]

It is quite tempting and sometimes hard not to look, but as long as you practice at it, it becomes normal not to look in those situations where it would give an unfair advantage.



I agree. Gameplay should always come before graphics, but what is the use of the high res textures, the better sea floor, the improved water, sky, and weather graphics if you never stop and smell the roses?

Totally agree. I love my external cam just for eyecandy (and yes I DO watch the DCs drop on me, but only because if Im getting pounded I like to WATCH) :-)

To tag on to this threads original intent:

Is there that much of a difference between SH 4 v1.4 and 1.5 (aside from Uboats)? And it seems that most of the major mods only support 1.5...so is it worth my time to get to to tide me over until SH 5?

Also...Im a big GWX junkie..but looking to get back into SH4 now that time has passed for great mods to come about (was very disappointed with SH 4 1.4). Which mod would entertain a GWX junkie?? (as far as bug fixes from stock, good escort and convoy behavior...)

[Starforce2]

Well I don't know about debris but I know FOTRS does flamming fuel leaks which leave trails behind wounded ships including warships. The mod is based on tmo but doesn't have the hard AI and the free cam is not gone (the switch unit one is, but there's instructions floating around someplace on how to fix)

[Sailor Steve]

I too have always been addicted to the external cameras in SH3 and SH4. I even do an ocassional single mission just to watch the escorts do their thing. In campaigns I manage to keep myself 'inside' during attack and evasion. But I agree the temptation is always there, and it's something I need to wean myself from.

Is there that much of a difference between SH 4 v1.4 and 1.5 (aside from Uboats)? And it seems that most of the major mods only support 1.5...so is it worth my time to get to to tide me over until SH 5?
1.5 does patch some of the remaining bugs that 1.4 didn't catch, and changes enough that some mods made for the newest version won't work with the older ones. It's quite cheap these days to buy the combined 'Gold' version, so it's really not much of a problem. Amazon has it for $11.88 new now. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss?url=search-alias%3Dvideogames&field-keywords=silent+hunter+4+gold

Also...Im a big GWX junkie..but looking to get back into SH4 now that time has passed for great mods to come about (was very disappointed with SH 4 1.4). Which mod would entertain a GWX junkie?? (as far as bug fixes from stock, good escort and convoy behavior...)
OM is the only way to go. It doesn't have some of GWX's cooler perks (I love the harbors, but even with GWX the actual details are mostly wrong), but it does provide the best, most complete u-boat experience for SH4. It gets top marks for gameplay and overall experience, and coupled with SH4's superior loading times, management system and map grids it keeps me coming back.

[Sil]

Oh, I saw these flaming trials in some other mod but I thought it was graphics error :)

Anyway, I cannot decide between GFO + RE + RSRD or just FOTRS. FOTRS looks pretty nice, it looks very similar to Real Environment + some nice effects. But it isn't compatible with RSRD and RSRD is so tempting...

[Bubblehead1980]

As far as the external camera goes, its great for eye candy and helping with the learning curve but is a better help aka cheat than auto TDC, as Ducimus pointed out.

Keeping the external cam on when playing for realism is not a good idea, i tried and managed to stay in most of the time, but it is fun to watch the charges blow up outside and while one may not mean to help, you do by simply going outside because you can see where the charges are going and even though player may not intend to use that info to their advantage, they do.

I play without external camera.Yes I miss the eye candy but man what realism it adds to the game and I find it more enjoyable.When you are forced to endure a heavy depth charging from the inside listening to the escort roar overhead, dropping charges, going ahead flank and hoping you get out from under, then running silent again.Forced to listen as the escort passes over wondering if he will drop.

Or when a plane is coming after you and have to dive, you can't jump outside to watch the plane drop its bombs/charges, you lose eye candy but you get something better.
Anyway, everyone has their own style but I agree that if you shoot for realism, you need the external cam off.

As far as mods go, I HIGHLY suggest TMO 1.7 TMO 1.8 is still BETA, not finished yet and didnt like some of the changes so waiting for final version.

RFB is pretty cool as well but the enemy AI is too easy for me.

[Faamecanic]

Thanks for the input guys.... Im not stuck on Uboat or fleet boats (although if I go to play SH4 I think I would rather play with Fleet Boats).

So the answer is ....there is no answer as far as which mod is good.

Guess I will try TMO 1.7.... and I think RSRD (if I can) will be what I start with.

[Ducimus]

TMO 1.8 is still BETA, not finished yet and didnt like some of the changes so waiting for final version.


What i do now? :88)

[Bubblehead1980]

lol ducimus i think i sent you some feedback on it a while back.Biggest gripe with the BETA is the engines get damaged(usually destroyed) too easy again during depth charge attacks, think you said you would change it back?

The crew's vision is the other.Drives me nuts because if running TC you get no warning like used to.I like the idea of them not being so eagle eyed but most of the time subs spotted enemy way before enemy spotted them, since subs were small targets.

I didnt care for the new sounds or skins either , but just didnt activate the skins since they were in patch form if i remember correctly.Sound wise, loved the new AA sounds, didnt care for the new diesel sound or volume, preferred the 1.7 sound and the 1.6 volume.Nothing like hearing the diesels cranking up when you go to flank speed on surface.

The engine damage and vision are the biggest.Overall, loved the BETA though. TMO is my favorite mod, never get bored with it.I may try to give 1.8 BETA another run here soon when i have chance.:salute:

[Ducimus]

Well, lets see now...

>>engines get damaged(usually destroyed) too easy again during depth charge attacks

I reverted the change that caused this because odds of the player having the crewman who can repair destroyed objects isn't very good.

>>The crew's vision is the other.

I increased their spotting abilities a bit. It's not radarlike, like it was before, but not as nearsighted as the original beta adjustment.

>>I didnt care for the new sounds or skins either

Sound changes will be as an optional mod. In the end i decided to stick with the current sounds. I'll point out here, that adjusting sound volumes and pitch's and such is hard because everyones sound capabilities on their PC's vary so much. Tune for one, screw up another. Skin wise, did you try them, or just assume they were too clean? One issue ive had with them is the area around the bridge is .. umm too clean or textureless. I fixed that in all the skins. I also resized them all back to stock resolutions. That could be a problem for some, but i thought it necessary for performance reasons.

You might want to check out the latest beta files. Also included is no missing/zombie/werewolf/staring eyeballs on the crew, and a new night scope texture with green illuminated crosshairs. Currently rewriting the campaign from scratch, while CA works his magic with the officers country interior.

[Bubblehead1980]

didn't know you corrected the issues i listed.Will check it out.Also, any plans to curb the planes a little? Maybe get rid of zeros on land based ASW patrol? Anyway, sounds like TMO is just getting better and better:salute: