"No map update" option - enable or disable and why?

[jaxa]

I have question about "no map update" option using GWX3.
I like realism options and always wanted to play as real as possible. I play with this option disabled and I can see ships icons on attack map when surfaced or watching via periscope and can't see when submerged - it's logical to me, except torpedo icon running to attacked ship after launch (I'd like to disable it - is it possible?).
With "no map update" option enabled there are no ship icons on attack map - it's rather unlogical for me, because navigator always should sign enemy ship position on map in my opinion. Am I right or not?
Last days I found Assisted plotting mod, mix of full informations about targets and no informations about them. I test it now, but have problem what to think about it - what is closer to real? Enabling "no map update', disabling it or using Assisted plotting mod?
What about your opinions?

[sharkbit]

I think both checking and unchecking the "No map update" is too extreme.

Neither is really realistic. I've tinkered with it checked, and didn't like it but I think I need to get manual targeting down more before I try that option again. But you're right, it is not very realistic-you will have a plotting team/navigator or someone plotting your target. The captain will not be running back and forth and drawing the marks on the map.

Unchecking the box gives way too much information. God's eye view is pretty descriptive.

I currently leave it unchecked. It seems a little less frustrating at this time. I may try it again in the future with it checked as I am improving my manual targeting and am ready for the next step.

I think in OLC's GUI mod, he addresses that issue and has a pretty good solution-targets are visible when zoomed out for some situational awareness, but targets dissapear when zoomed in-you have to plot them yourself. Although I only played around a little with his mod, it is not perfect, but a pretty good solution.

I haven't tried the assisted plotting so I don't have any opinion on that.

My big hope is that SH5 will come up with something that will be better.

:)

[h.sie]

what I don't like in OLC's nav map solution is that one only has to raise the periscope in order to find out wheather there are planes near the Sub or not, instead of searching for the planes. I think that is cheating. I prefer to search for planes before surfacing without god's eye help. For me, the Assisted Plotting mod is far from being perfect but the best solution possible. It only shows the position of my sub and the radio reports of convoys far away.

[Pisces]

It depends on how strictly you take your role as captain/kaleun. In real life they did have a seperate person to do this navigation/plotting stuf. But imho, if this was automated then the game went boring for me real soon. Or there wasn't any freedom in the way it was done. I absolutely love SH3 for allowing a complete set of drawing tools on the map. (ok, still miss the ability to rename marks :( ) Sh2 got close, but wasn't really practical in use iirc.

Updates on is too accurate, and almost god-like situational awareness. No updates means all the work is for you to be done. I take the latter and try to find ways to minimise the amount of work I need to do. Match their speed as best as possible so you can take long intervals between plotting and you don't get too close too quickly. And don't plot each and every unit in a convoy, just the ones on the nearest corner.

[Sailor Steve]

The person drawing on the map can only draw what you tell him to. With Map Updates on he magically draws every ship in sight, including the ones hidden behind other ships; he magically draws them all at once without any delay, and he magically knows the exact distance to each ship without ever seeing them.

With Map Updates off he refuses to draw anything, including sonar lines.

Try the Assisted Plotting Mod. It removes all contacts from the map, but if you lock onto a target and identify it (or have the Weapons Officer do it for you) it will then appear on the Attack Map. On the Nav Map there is nothing, but if you move the cursor around you will see dashed circles, and if you click on one it will say "Unknown". If it is IDed on the Attack Map it will then show up on the Nav Map when you click on the circle.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/mymod17.jpg

The above picture was made with GWX, so there are maybe twenty ships in the harbor. The only one showing is the one I IDed.

So far it's the most realistic compromise. It also cancels the renown loss for having Map Updates on.



[Edit] My FileFront site is gone, and so is BtS Mods. I'll have it up for download here in a day or two.

[jaxa]

OK Sailor Steve, but what about ocasional informations about ships or convoys on nav map, somewhere at sea? Does Assisted plotting mod cancel them or not? Sometimes I receive info about contact from radio and sometimes I see only icon on nav map about ship at sea.

[irish1958]

OK Sailor Steve, but what about ocasional informations about ships or convoys on nav map, somewhere at sea? Does Assisted plotting mod cancel them or not? Sometimes I receive info about contact from radio and sometimes I see only icon on nav map about ship at sea.
Jaxa,
Subs spent most of their time on the surface and in radio contact with BDU, so knowing about contacts elsewhere in the Atlantic was "common knowledge" and knowing about convoys was also.
The real problem with SH3 is the instant knowledge of location, course, bearing, etc of contacts. Leaving map update off is realistic, but once the ship is viewed and ID, its location is known almost to the meter.
The common tactic employed, at least early in the war, was to follow the ship throughout the day and attack (on the surface) at night.
So I think the assisted plotting mod is a good solution and probably mimics real life as close as we can get.

[sharkbit]

The above picture was made with GWX, so there are maybe twenty ships in the harbor. The only one showing is the one I IDed.


Question:
If you id'd more than one ship, would the other ships show up on your map or would only one at a time show up?:hmmm:

:)

[Sailor Steve]

OK Sailor Steve, but what about ocasional informations about ships or convoys on nav map, somewhere at sea? Does Assisted plotting mod cancel them or not? Sometimes I receive info about contact from radio and sometimes I see only icon on nav map about ship at sea.
Assisted Plotting only affects the visual and sonar contacts. Radio contacts are unchanged.

Here's the link:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1328

[jaxa]

Thanks for info, SS.

[von Zelda]

Assisted Plotting only affects the visual and sonar contacts. Radio contacts are unchanged.

There is another mod that I use, which I downloaded a few months ago called "Realistic Contacts." It disables the short range and long range radio contacts from showing up on the nav map. You only receive the typed radio contact message with grid, direction and speed for the long range contact, and I believe that the short range contact just takes you out of time compression so you know something is near but you have no map location, direction or speed.

For me, this plays very realistic, especially when no map update is also selected.

[irish1958]

There is another mod that I use, which I downloaded a few months ago called "Realistic Contacts." It disables the short range and long range radio contacts from showing up on the nav map. You only receive the typed radio contact message with grid, direction and speed for the long range contact, and I believe that the short range contact just takes you out of time compression so you know something is near but you have no map location, direction or speed.

For me, this plays very realistic, especially when no map update is also selected.

And the link is: ?

[von Zelda]

And the link is: ?

Try this link:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=144501&highlight=realist+contacts

Mod was created by Mikhayl on or about 11/16/08

Sorry, the filefront link within to download is no longer active.

[irish1958]

Try this link:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=144501&highlight=realist+contacts

Mod was created by Mikhayl on or about 11/16/08

Sorry, the filefront link within to download is no longer active.
Bummer,
Perhaps you could upload your copy to Subsim downloads. it is really quite easy to do.

[Sailor Steve]

Already there:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=551

Though I didn't find it to be much different than having Map Contact Updates turned off.

[von Zelda]

Already there:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=551

Though I didn't find it to be much different than having Map Contact Updates turned off.


Radio Contacts do not appear on Nav map with this mod. It makes a big difference for thus who have map contacts turned on.

[Fubar2Niner]

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/mymod17.jpg

The above picture was made with GWX, so there are maybe twenty ships in the harbor. The only one showing is the one I IDed.

So far it's the most realistic compromise. It also cancels the renown loss for having Map Updates on.



[Edit] My FileFront site is gone, and so is BtS Mods. I'll have it up for download here in a day or two.


@Steve any idea what the renown loss is for Map Updates turned on ?

Best regards.

Fubar2Niner

[jaxa]

I'm testing Assisted plotting mod now. Very good idea, but there is one irritating problem with this mod - starting mission in port I hear "Schift gesichted" all the time and can't use time acceleration, because my crew inform me about the same ships many times, not signed on nav map (Assisted plotting mod idea). Sailing through the port and Kiel Kanal is very slowly now. Is it possible to fix it or should I be more patient?

[irish1958]

Jexa,
Try leaving the officer off the bridge and see what happens. If not helpful, try; http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=154745

[jaxa]

WO outside bridge doesn't fix the problem.
I've tried "No ship spotted" mod, but it probably (as it's described in readme) may affect sensors. Using this mod I can quickly set time acceleration up to 32x, when next message drop it to 1x - without this mod I can do it only up to 16x (if I'm fast). It's curious for me, but I have no idea how to resolve this problem - want to try Assisted plotting mod at open sea. Have to live with it.

[skookum]

Non Sequiter,

I recently reinstalled GWX3/OLC Gold after a HD crash. I'm trying to get a 360 degree bearing plotter to work but it won't appear around my sub. In fact my sub icon is missing all together. I seem to remember the fix for this was in map.cfg but it's been so long since I did it that I can't remember the procedure.

any help?