I suggest this with each release of SH...Persistent Online Campaign!

[nattydread]

It can be a UBisoft server, or it can be player hosted campaign servers...i dont really care.

The idea is that the server runs 24/7. It creates dynamic convoys and patrols over the course of a campaign(maybe 3 months). Players log in progress through the campaign just like the single player campaign...but not you have the opportunity to run into other players at sea.

Wrinkles to iron out: Maintaining flexibility of time so players can use time compression as need.

I propose that time be accelerated on a sector by sector basis. That time compression be set to the lowest time multiple of any person within the sector. That convoys, patrols and task forces be stratigically placed/spawned in sectors of ocean in relative close proximity to where players are activly patroling(that doesnt mean you'll have convoys dropped in your lap, you will still need to patrol and cover lots of ocean to find, stumble or be vectored to contacts). All spawned convoys, task forces, patrols will be spawned outside of sensory range of any player in the sector(to prevent "drop-ins" of visible or auditory/sonar or radar contacts out of no where).

Time compression will cause some anamolies in day/night cycles and plotting. I suggest that all time be server based and all plottings and time marks be elapsed time...so if you compress time for 18hrs elapsed, but only 3hrs of game time passed, Your clocks will show onlt 3hrs passing, and the day/night cycle will show only 3hrs passing, but your timers will still show the 18hrs passed...mainly for accurate plotting of targets and such.

I can also see time compression not being a sector thing, but a sensory range to player thing, where you can time compress all you want, until in sensory range of a player or AI unit that is in sensory range of a player. Once in this range, the fast time compression allowed is the lowest time compression of any player in sensory range of another player, or AI unit within sensory range of another unit.

[nattydread]

I'd like to see the campaign progress through just like the single player campaign. The equipment made avilable to you is only that equipment available during the period the campaign is currently in.

I'd like to see a running stat page with stats for:
* Time in game
* Time on patrol
* Tonnage
* Accuracy
* Kill/Death ratios

I'd like to see comms modeled...complete with HF/DF penalties as an option.

Fully dynamic AI campaign Enigma reports and sub vectoring.

The cool thing is that you can be as wolf packages or as lone wolf as you generally want to be...though you likly run into others on occasion.

I'd like there to be an observer mode, where you can watch other players at sea from either crew stations or free mode camera controls.

[donut]

Hope to understand on-line player/game interaction, many don't concieve.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=155526

[difool2]

I've thought a lot about how to make something like this workable. I think the arena would definitely need to be made with a smaller scale (like 1/4th linear, as in the distance between Newfoundland and England being 1000 km, not 4000). Time compression is very problematic; you instead may need to have a team/crew associated with each boat so that at least one person is logged onto the sub at any one time. At 18 knots (requiring a fuel usage kludge), it would take you about a day real-time to reach the center of the Atlantic, which isn't too bad. Ubi would need the Channel/North Sea to appeal to the "action first" types who can dive right in (pun intended) with Type II's, Schnellboots, various British ships, and yes even aircraft.

[nattydread]

Im not so sure it has to be scaled down. Time compression allows for significant travel in a short period of time. I dont thin multiplayer as to cater to the "action now" group, because multiplayer would be meant to add a more social/interactive suppott to the single player campaign experience. Meaning, if you dont like single player, you likly wont like multiplayer.

Multiplayer isnt meant to change the feel of the game. Its not meant to provide the typical frag-fest experience, but only offer the ability to truly wolf-pack within the already well established single-player experience.

In my vision, the game should generally feel as isolated as it does in single player, until you run into or coordinate group action.

Time compression is the key feature that is required to give players the freedom to engage targets in a timely manner. My initial time compression plan was to force on a players within sector, sensory or proximity to only time compress to the lowest setting of any player in the sector, sensor or proximity range. I still think that will work, but I think its acceptable to create a sort of "warp" option, that allows you to travel to a patrol area quickly without fear of being hampered in travel time due to inadvertant run ins with other players.

I think one should be able to time compress for long travel distance, but click an option called "reposition" that will ignore units while traveling inbound to the destination waypoint. So I could sort of "warp" there, but not really, at high compression like we canin game now, and then only be hampered by player encounters within the sector, sensor or proximity of the destination waypoint.

In addition, while "repositioning", my sub will not transmit sensory return(visual, radar, sonar) to other players for whom Im passing by within sensory range. That way players wont get weird sensory anamolies as other players zip through at "warp" speeds during their "repositioning".

Lastly, when th eplayer is outside sensory range of other players, "repositioning" would not ignore contacts like air units or lone warships(hunter killer groups, single DDs) that are not within sensory range of players. Such run ins against ant-sub threats are critical experiences during one's patrol and there shouldnt be a way to exploit the "repositioning" to by-pass these threats while transiting. However, task forces, convoys, lone merchants would remain ignored until arriving within proximity to your destination. Once out of "resposition" mode, everything works like normal.

[Armistead]

I don't have to read the TC article, cuz I've yet to see a game like this that isn't scaled down to real time play.

The other problem with online that would have to be resolved is online cheating. It eventually ruins almost every online game. Better to just host and play with those you know.

[difool2]

All that 'warping' (call it what you like) would be very liable to exploits galore and would raise all sorts of gameplay issues. The Channel, in my envisioning, would be something to get enough "critical mass" (read: more casual players) on the server-otherwise I don't think you'll get enough hardcore subsimmers to make it worth Ubi's (or whoever's) time and investment. Meanwhile us "sub grognards" will be out in the Atlantic doing our thing.

[nattydread]

I'd be ok with hosting 24/7, persistent campaigns to a small select group, but "battles in a bottle"/skirmishes will get boring quick...there isnt enough variety, too predictable, too staged, too artifical.

TC is viable in this multiplayer experience because of the naturally solitary existance and wide open expanses. Give the concept a try, remembering that is for a very unique type of multiplayer experience...its not intend to mimic the typical multiplayer experience and interactions.

what exploits would a well modeled TC option create? We arent concetrated in areas with rapidly changing dynamic situtations. We are single units moving at 1 to 15kts 10s to 100s...even 1000 miles apart. We are generally unseen and unheard...even by our own. Date and time of day will be tied to the server, all plotting and tracking timing would be elapsed time using timers.

If Im off the coast of New York...or even outside Mobile, Al, how would you "repositioning" from outside Houston to outside New Orleans, or even into the Carribeans in a few minutes affect the quality and immersion of my experience. As long as you have the fuel to pull it off...power to you, enjoy the game. I dont have a problem as long as I dont see or hear you warping in from San Juan to a shooting position on my targeted convoy just outside of Boston Harbour. Im ok with you "repositioning" to engage my convoy, but being forced into coming out of warp outside sensory range and entering the fight "time synced"(at the lowest level of TC of any player within sensory range) with those players engaged in the vicinity. So you'll be forced to approach from well outside engagement ranges.

Cheating may be an issue, but not much if you are hosting to a select group. File scans and mod compatibility is another option. Forced host options/cutomizations are good things too..

[karamazovnew]

Come on face it... it's impossible to implement for many reasons.

How about this...
The player, if his internet works, logs on the ubi server when the game starts and his campaign log logs onto the server for everyone to see. Surviving from 39 to 45 at 110% difficulty is by no means an easy feat and we could follow up on leaderboards and stuff like that. I've always wanted a no-save option for SH and this would spice up the leaderboards by a lot... I can see it now :shucks::

All-time 100% no-save leaderboard:
1. Name: Karamazov
Start Date: Sept 1939
End Date: May 1945
Honors: knights cross with golden oak leaves swords and diamonds, War Fair-Play Medal recieved from Allies for never killing anyone.
Total Tonnage: Warships: 22,415,571 Merchants: 0
Current Status: retired, happily married, house escaped from american bombers, lives in the future RFG, far away from communism.
Crew lost: Are you kidding? They never even had lice!!!

2. who cares....

[maerean_m]

nattydread, you may get your wish :)

[SteamWake]

nattydread, you may get your wish :)


:o :yeah: :D

[karamazovnew]

OMFG I've posted the previous post on the wrong thread :har::har::har:. I must be sleepy :yawn:. Please ignore what I said before, it is idiotic in the context of this thread, especially considering the "cheating" part.

[JU_88]

nattydread, you may get your wish :)


Wow impressive! :yeah:

[nattydread]

You guys are serious? C'mon, dont be playing with my emotions.

[Nexus7]

nattydread, you may get your wish :)

:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o:o

If this was true, I'd consider this an ENORMOUS STEP FORWARD, a BREAKTROUGH , not only in the SH series, but in multiplay generally !!!!!!!!!! Making SH a Milestone in the gaming evolution !!!!! I expected this to arrive, but not so soon !!!

I am going to wait for some official announcement before putting my pre-order 6 month before release !

[Nexus7]

My vision on this, is to have the ability to log-in and be given the choice to jump aboard one of the already deployed and on patrol (and unmanned, AI controlled) submarines in different zones. The faction (manned and unmanned units) has to gather and share the gathered intelligence in order to have the best possible tactical awareness for the others.

At a later development my dream is to have a sub simulator interfaced with a political simulator, with a number of virtual nations in play. The sub simulator being just a portion of the whole... Flight simulators, Infantry simulators and so on, would be part of the whole as well.

The political simulator would be the trigger for campaigns / battles :ping:

If SH5 takes even a single one of those aspects into account, it would be simply fantastic :yep:

[nattydread]

My vision on this, is to have the ability to log-in and be given the choice to jump aboard one of the already deployed and on patrol (and unmanned, AI controlled) submarines in different zones. The faction (manned and unmanned units) has to gather and share the gathered intelligence in order to have the best possible tactical awareness for the others.

At a later development my dream is to have a sub simulator interfaced with a political simulator, with a number of virtual nations in play. The sub simulator being just a portion of the whole... Flight simulators, Infantry simulators and so on, would be part of the whole as well.

The political simulator would be the trigger for campaigns / battles :ping:

If SH5 takes even a single one of those aspects into account, it would be simply fantastic :yep:


WWIIOnline is sort of like that...minus the political stuff :) its essentially a flight, infantry, tank/vehicle and a very limited naval simulator of a nice chunk of Europe at 1/2 scale.

Its amazing to see a true combined arms massivly multiplayer simulator...I love it, been on it 8yrs now.

[difool2]

My vision on this, is to have the ability to log-in and be given the choice to jump aboard one of the already deployed and on patrol (and unmanned, AI controlled) submarines in different zones. The faction (manned and unmanned units) has to gather and share the gathered intelligence in order to have the best possible tactical awareness for the others.

In my conception each boat is crewed by a team, with a command hierarchy-top ranked officer who is logged on controls the sub. With the proper permissions other people could be allowed to helm her; naturally you may multicrew the boat at the appropriate times (like during a battle, natch). There would be a lot more involved but that's a start.

[longam]

Well if they could use the bubble effect in MP, where if your in a certain range of each other only then do you effect the other players world. TC should not effect anyone else in the GUI.

[nattydread]

I like the idea of multi-crewing, but it needs to be modeled well so if we lose connection with any crewmate, the boat can still function without a hitch.

[martes86]

I like the idea of multi-crewing, but it needs to be modeled well so if we lose connection with any crewmate, the boat can still function without a hitch.


If that function were to be introduced, I think it'd give the tournament playing communities a GREAT DEAL of help to sustain their activity, as with older titles, players become bored and need new input to keep having wild fun in multiplayer games, and if that isn't possible, they stop playing eventually, and that is a community killer. The biggest beneficiary of this I can think of would be the SubClub.


So please, implement multi-station games, and independent-own-pc servers so that things like a persistent scenario are possible as we can relay on our own servers to stand to that need without having to mandatory log-in to Ubi.

Cheers

[Dimitrius07]

The author of thise topic just "read my mind". Thise is how multiplayer should look like in my opinion.

[THE_MASK]

The online game should be along the same lines as call of duty where you have 10 or so game maps and one side are in subs and the other side are in escorts guarding a convoy :yep: Have 5 subs and 5 escorts in every online game and the subs can talk to each other and the escorts can talk to each other . How hard is it . Have the single player campaign game leaning more towards the hard core enthusiast and the multiplayer leaning more towards the casual shoot em up gamer . For the escorts just have a steering wheel , speed bell , depth charge button , star shells etc . In the sub have a simplified controls for the kids option or the same as in the campaign for the hard core enthusiasts . You would have 2 target audiences in the one game = more sales .

[nattydread]

The online game should be along the same lines as call of duty where you have 10 or so game maps and one side are in subs and the other side are in escorts guarding a convoy :yep: Have 5 subs and 5 escorts in every online game and the subs can talk to each other and the escorts can talk to each other . How hard is it . Have the single player campaign game leaning more towards the hard core enthusiast and the multiplayer leaning more towards the casual shoot em up gamer . For the escorts just have a steering wheel , speed bell , depth charge button , star shells etc . In the sub have a simplified controls for the kids option or the same as in the campaign for the hard core enthusiasts . You would have 2 target audiences in the one game = more sales .

Oh God no! I can accept the option for isolated skirmishes...even the option of arcade like options. This could allow for such a server...but multiplayer shouldnt be designed around a player base other than us...the folks who would buy and play this game the way its modeled single player.

There has to be a multiplayer option that encompasses the spectrum of play available in single player mode, but in a multiplayer environment.

Im not against those who want a frag-fest...aslong as it isnt forced on me as the only multiplayer option. I want a multiplayer filled with other sumariners like me. Hardcore, desiring an immersive and realistic experience. Thats guys who run at or near "full realism", play smart, bring the war to the enemy, goes for results, but takes pride in surviving.

I'd be fine with a server of just a few regular players like that. Run into them occasion, team on occasion, but run solo whenever I want. No staged skirmishes, no "battles in a bottle"...A multiplayer populated dynamic campaign.