Simulations a dying breed... No says Paradox Interactive

[Sonarman]

Simulations a dying breed... No says Paradox Interactive (http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2009/08/21/pc-simulation-games-still-have-a-future/1) (publisher of East India Company & Ship Simulator Extremes), they may be right it was recently announced by Ubi the SH series had collectively sold over 1.5 million copies, whilst this doesn't compare to the GTAs of this world these are apparently healthy numbers for niche markets like simulations.

[Dowly]

I believe it when I see it. The dying thing that is. Few years back, they said PC gaming was dying, point+click adventure games were dying (they might be on life support, but they arent dead yet!:stare:) and yaadiyaa.

[Jimbuna]

Well it certainly looks like it is still a profitable area otherwise Ubisoft wouldn't be working on SH5 and I know the Ship Simulator is very good because my son has them both.

[SteamWake]

Well they better do better than the previous ship simulator or they will be dead :rotfl:

The east india trading co. is a title I have been considering however my disposable income is pre-disposed.

I dont think the simulator market is 'dead' but it is at best a niche albeit a large one.

But the signs point to a decline... Microsoft Train simulator (dead), Microsoft Flight simulator (in a coma), Microprose (dead and buried), the list goes on.

I really hope for strong success for UBI and their upcoming title. Maybe it will show the gaming industry that there is still a profitable market in this 'niche'.

[August]

I believe it when I see it. The dying thing that is. Few years back, they said PC gaming was dying, point+click adventure games were dying (they might be on life support, but they arent dead yet!:stare:) and yaadiyaa.

Yeah baseless rumors propagated by console companies who would love to see the death of a competitor.

[Sonarman]

But the signs point to a decline... Microsoft Train simulator (dead), Microsoft Flight simulator (in a coma), Microprose (dead and buried), the list goes on.


On Microprose...
I actually think Microprose failed because they moved away from simulation and over reached themselves.

On Microsoft...
Microsoft on the other hand I think actually want to kill off PC gaming all together in favour of the XBOX. They buy out good PC gaming studios and spoil them as highlighted just today here (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/microsoft-destroyed-development-culture-weisman). Then they start the "Games for Windows Live" initiative a buggy and ill-supported pile of poo that has all but killed off the fledgling "Battlestations Pacific".

[Skybird]

Since ten years now I get told that simulations are dying.

Falcon 4. Steel Beasts Pro. Flight Simulator. Sub Command/Dangeorus Waters. Silent Hunter. Armed Assault. Plius many strategy and tactics simulations.

Rumour says Falcon 5 is under secret developement since longer time. Verified is that there will be Silent Hunter 5, and evident it is that Steel Beasts gets constantly improved.

adding all this together, there is more then I can reasonably play!

[Tchocky]

What Skybird said. :DL

I'm going through the Janes back catalogue at the minute.
And DID
And Sierra

And finally taking the time to play Allied Force properly.

[AVGWarhawk]

Simulators will not die. There is always a new gaming engine, new graphics, new way to play. SH5 is just such an example. As long as new ways to play and new ways to visualize, simulation will grown. Hell, we are still waiting on motion seats for our games. I mean real good motion seats. Imagine in rough seas in SH your seat rolling to the water swells! Really, true simulation for the common person like you and me has not reached it peak at all.

[Raptor1]

I don't think the simulation market is any smaller than it was back a few years ago, I think this impression that simulators are 'dead' is because the recent influx of the unwashed masses into the gaming world has made mindless shooters and the like more profitable, but there are still quite a lot of people who play simulations and other...err...unpopular game genres (Paradox demonstrates this best).

[mookiemookie]

Simulators will not die. There is always a new gaming engine, new graphics, new way to play. SH5 is just such an example. As long as new ways to play and new ways to visualize, simulation will grown. Hell, we are still waiting on motion seats for our games. I mean real good motion seats. Imagine in rough seas in SH your seat rolling to the water swells! Really, true simulation for the common person like you and me has not reached it peak at all.

http://www.4aquickpropertysale.com/images/smiley_ill.jpg

[AVGWarhawk]

Exactly Mookie, the visual experience is there but the physical has not been touched. :03:

[Contact]

Simulations are ussually made not for kids. Shooters, arcade, racing games are toys for kids deffinetly. But they won't be kids forever and I think with the age, the taste for games also changes, that is when it's a time for starting to know the simulations. :yep:

[Sea Demon]

I believe it when I see it. The dying thing that is. Few years back, they said PC gaming was dying, point+click adventure games were dying (they might be on life support, but they arent dead yet!:stare:) and yaadiyaa.

PC gaming better never die. I hate consoles and their clumsy controls.

[mookiemookie]

PC gaming better never die. I hate consoles and their clumsy controls.

Agreed. I'll take a keyboard and mouse over a controller any day.

[Sonarman]

It does make you wonder why Microsoft & Sony et al are so afraid of attaching a keyboard & mouse to their consoles to allow things like simulation games. Especially when you look back at the massive success of machines like the Amiga and C64 etc which provided a stable, level playing field for developers instead of the configuration nightmare of the modern PC. Do they really think that the addition of a keyboard & mouse would stop people buying consoles? They give their audience very little credit indeed.

[Max2147]

Simulations aren't dying off, they're just changing shape.

Before, simulations were designed by small developers, then distributed by big publishers like EA, Sierra, Ubi, and so on. The big publishers have moved on, but the small developers are still there. Instead of getting big publishers to distribute the game, they do it themselves now. The result is fewer copies sold, but also higher quality games.

For example, EA published a series of F1 sims made by ISI. When EA lost the F1 license, they cut ISI loose. ISI stayed together and made rFactor. Similarly, Papyrus made NASCAR sims for Sierra. When Sierra lost the NASCAR license, Papyrus became iRacing.com and produced their own sim.

[Blacklight]

Attatching a keyboard would make it seem too complicated for their "target market".
I still think that simulation games are in a SERIOUS decline as the younger players seem to "prefer" first person shooters and simple action games. Every year, I see less and less hardcore simulations being released and more of that action crap for the attention deficite disordered non-thinkers being released to fill in the gap.
Most people, even the older gamers tend to gravitate toward those action, arcade type games. Of all my friends who I grew up gaming with, I can't name a single ONE who enjoys simulation games, yet they all LOVE their Playstation 3's and Xboxes to the point where using a PC to play a game doesn't even cross their radar.
MOST people today don't want to take the time to LEARN anything complex. I've seen a perfect NON-video game example of this as well over the past years. I've been to various game conventions (board and miniature wargames, Dungeons & Dragons and other RPG stuff, etc..) and the people there are all old like me. There is very few younger people coming in to fill in the gaps left by the older crowd because these games actually require you to do a LOT of reading to learn to play. You have to put EFFORT into learning the games. The first thing the people I know ask when I toss a game out on the table is "Am I going to have to think ?" which prompts me to just sigh and pull the game off the table and shove it back in it's box. Everything is so instant gratification now, that people are missing out on a LOT of rewarding and entertaining stuff !

The market is unfortunately following this "mindless game" trend that the people seem to want.

[pozine]

Attatching a keyboard would make it seem too complicated for their "target market".
I still think that simulation games are in a SERIOUS decline as the younger players seem to "prefer" first person shooters and simple action games. Every year, I see less and less hardcore simulations being released and more of that action crap for the attention deficite disordered non-thinkers being released to fill in the gap.
Most people, even the older gamers tend to gravitate toward those action, arcade type games. Of all my friends who I grew up gaming with, I can't name a single ONE who enjoys simulation games, yet they all LOVE their Playstation 3's and Xboxes to the point where using a PC to play a game doesn't even cross their radar.
MOST people today don't want to take the time to LEARN anything complex. I've seen a perfect NON-video game example of this as well over the past years. I've been to various game conventions (board and miniature wargames, Dungeons & Dragons and other RPG stuff, etc..) and the people there are all old like me. There is very few younger people coming in to fill in the gaps left by the older crowd because these games actually require you to do a LOT of reading to learn to play. You have to put EFFORT into learning the games. The first thing the people I know ask when I toss a game out on the table is "Am I going to have to think ?" which prompts me to just sigh and pull the game off the table and shove it back in it's box. Everything is so instant gratification now, that people are missing out on a LOT of rewarding and entertaining stuff !

The market is unfortunately following this "mindless game" trend that the people seem to want.


I agree... well, i'm not a no-life
but i enjoy sims... It seems people can't make the difference..
When i talk of a sim with a friend ( not my best friends tough ) they see in me the little no-life... I'M NOT NO-LIFE :rotfl:

first subsim i bought : Silent Hunter 2, The Guy said : Here's the big book for the hard sub game... I was like, : Cool :)
Time And Effort that's the solution for sims

All my friends play their Xbox and PS3... Fallout3, Oblivion, Fable2 CoD4, Battlefield Series...
forgotten many good action games. Yep they are good, i like them exept CoD4...
They see a sim they say : Uhhh:down: bad graphics=bad game
Hard and long learning= BAd game really bad game... BORING!

I really hate people like that, it seems they can't use their brain like normal people...

I used many minutes to write this

[GoldenRivet]

my preference is for PC based games, I play almost no console based games despite owning a wii and xbox.

the wii - purchased for nothing more than drunken party entertainment.

the xbox - for visits from the niece, nephew and occasionally the brother and law and myself will play NFL Fever or something.

i would estimate that 97% of my gaming is limited to PC only. :up:

and of that percentage of PC gaming... 90% falls within the simulation genre

[Task Force]

I myself dont like a good FPS from time to time... but simulators are what I mainly play... I find simulators are the only way to do things you would want to do... but never have to DO them... would I ever be able to command a submarine in real life... no... but in a sim I can from the safty of my own chair...:yep:

[Blacklight]

I really hate people like that, it seems they can't use their brain like normal people...

You forget. THEY are the norm and WE'RE the abnormal ones. Just look at the number of people who prefer "mindless action games" compared to the numbers who like games you have to "work" to learn. WE'RE the wierdos.

[Task Force]

Simulations are ussually made not for kids. Shooters, arcade, racing games are toys for kids deffinetly. But they won't be kids forever and I think with the age, the taste for games also changes, that is when it's a time for starting to know the simulations. :yep:

I dont know about that... I see alot of people who arnt kids playing a stupid bunch of mindless fps games... EX those COD games...

[bookworm_020]

If they make a decent game, people will buy it. It doesn't matter what it's background is, if appeals to the masses, and is marketed well, it should succeed.

[Arclight]

They're not exactly dying. We've been blessed with the DCS series, which should continue to expand for years to come, and HoI3 and Rise of Flight aren't doing too bad at the moment: http://kotaku.com/5345628/pc-sales-charts-apologies-are-in-order

[Contact]

I dont know about that... I see alot of people who arnt kids playing a stupid bunch of mindless fps games... EX those COD games...

I also like to splash around with COD at multiplayer just for venting from time to time. But quickly it gets boring and I'm back to SH3 :)

[danlisa]

Like many others here I won't say that the Sim market is dead, yet.

Regardless of our beliefs on the subject, developers are in the business to make a profit and PC exclusive Simulations are not turning out the figures to sustain the market indefinitely. TBH with you, the main reason for this is the longevity of these Sim titles and in part the moddability of each Sim, while initially boosting sales, does nothing but hurt the following title in a series.

We all live in a disposable society and games are becoming more and more disposable along with it. As such developers and production studios have realised where the money is and are moving over in their droves. For example; the SH series has sold 1.5 million copies in it's lifetime but a single console game will sell that in 1 weekend (if not a single day).

Which brings me nicely onto the subject of consoles.

For the mature Sim gamers, you lot don't half moan about consoles killing off PC games and yet by your own admissions the consoles don't cater for your genre of game. So what's the problem?

Personally, as I lack the available free time to devote to PC games at the moment, my console sees most of my time and why not, I can switch it on and be in game within 40secs, do anything I currently do on my PC, I don't have to worry about whether my hardware can run the game and I don't have constantly moan about DRM.
As for being a mindless console gamer who enjoys the l33t games like CoD4 :roll: (not really but it's a good example) I feel the stereotype being plastered around Subsim to be a little offensive and borne of a small mind, but what should I suspect from a PC based forum, oh that's right exactly what I would read from a console based forum. Tit for tat! I don't bracket myself into a PC or Console only choice, why should you be so bigoted to do the same.

Now, moving on. If you are all so keen for the Sim genre to last and have a bright future you should be asking the developers to consider console variations of their titles. Both the PS3 and XBox are capable of running Sims when properly coded and the PS3 does support KEYBOARD & MOUSE input (know what you are talking about please). The large production studios have realised that to make serious money (which in turn boosts the genre) the consoles must be considered when developing games, the Sim market should adapt if they want to survive and be profitable.

[Skybird]

The wrote and repoprted about the Games convention in cologne, showing a trend towards "femalised" games like the sim People series, and "qactive sports" gaqmes like for the Wii. These are seen as the trendsetters. while brutal games and shooters still are present, they said they are loosing in market shares and are not as dominant anymore as they once have been. Social gaming with fun- and sports-games they claim to be the current thing.

While I see some hints for this being true, I wonder if it really is a valid and objective opbservation - or just PC-wishful thinking. Hard to say. but the trend that more and more girls and women take on games that match their taste cannot be overlooked indeed - it is real. also the trend that gaming in general becomes acceptable for higher age groups and wider social groups in general. and this is especially due to - consoles, like it or not.

[stabiz]

Racing sims are not doing all bad at the moment, the new massive (and costly) racing training tool iRacing, and soon we will see rFactor 2. (Joy, joy, joy, joy)

[Task Force]

Is it just me or in the long run consoles are more expensive in the long run... with a pc all I have to do is just add a bit every once in a while...

[danlisa]

Is it just me or in the long run consoles are more expensive in the long run... with a pc all I have to do is just add a bit every once in a while...

Umm, how do you do the math on that?

The PS3 (for example) is available for £230 ($299), now. This console has a planned 10yr life cycle, so around 7yrs left.

How much does a gaming PC cost again? How often do you upgrade a GFX card? How much does that cost? How much does a monitor cost you? Etc......Damn, to keep up with PC games you need a good GFX card every 2 years and that can be £100 to £200 a pop.

Even buying a new console every 8-10yrs, it's cheaper in the long run.

[Arclight]

Is it just me or in the long run consoles are more expensive in the long run... with a pc all I have to do is just add a bit every once in a while...
Nah, you buy a console and stick with it till the end of it's lifecycle. You'll likely upgrade your PC several times in that time, if you want to stay up to date, that is. Doesn't have to be huge upgrades all the time; maybe new memory kit one year, new CPU the next.

It's just that you can do so much more with a PC, so as far as I'm concerned you get more for your money. And of course you typically have better graphics and performance (load times, frame rates if you don't go overboard on IQ).

My current CPU cost as much as a 360 Arcade costs now. :o

[Task Force]

lol.. well pcs are more expensive... but you can do a hell of a lot more with one... you can to a report on a PS3, you cant do photoshop and stuff on a console, your cant do alot of things... cause from what I understand consoles are mainly for games....

I myself think consoles are a waste of time... Thats why I gave up on them after the ps2....

[antikristuseke]

Umm, how do you do the math on that?

The PS3 (for example) is available for £230 ($299), now. This console has a planned 10yr life cycle, so around 7yrs left.

How much does a gaming PC cost again? How often do you upgrade a GFX card? How much does that cost? How much does a monitor cost you? Etc......Damn, to keep up with PC games you need a good GFX card every 2 years and that can be £100 to £200 a pop.

Even buying a new console every 8-10yrs, it's cheaper in the long run.

No it is not. When you take into account the cost of games, the pc comes off better in the long run and you can sell your left over hardware to recoup more than 60% of the investment in hardware, if you are on a concistent upgrade cycle. The reason why pc games cost less than console games is the fact that consoles have licencing fees for developers, which they obviously delegate to the consumers.

[danlisa]

lol.. well pcs are more expensive... but you can do a hell of a lot more with one... you can't do a report on a PS3, you cant do photoshop and stuff on a console, your cant do alot of things... cause from what I understand consoles are mainly for games....

:damn: YES YOU CAN.

The PS3 can do all of those things.

[Task Force]

and console games have less replay value in my book... I find that alot of console games are just S***.

[Task Force]

:damn: YES YOU CAN.

The PS3 can do all of those things.

your talking to someone who knows 2 fact about ps3s and both facts are rong...

Anywho I still think they are a waste of time... and wish they would dissapear....

[danlisa]

No it is not. When you take into account the cost of games, the pc comes off better in the long run and you can sell your left over hardware to recoup more than 60% of the investment in hardware, if you are on a concistent upgrade cycle. The reason why pc games cost less than console games is the fact that consoles have licencing fees for developers, which they obviously delegate to the consumers.

The disparity between PC & Console Games is not that much, assuming you pay retail upon release. PC games usually retail at £35.99 while Console games retail at £39.99. No big difference there. Also, both media types allow for resale or trade in, so it matters not.

As for hardware, true. But I would contest that you can recoup 60% of your initial outlay on PC hardware. If you are able to recoup that much you are buying the hardware (say GFX card for example) at release, which will cost you a premium and then selling it again within 6 months to ensure there is still demand for it.

[danlisa]

and console games have less replay value in my book... they are more difficult for a community to mod...

Some do, some don't, as with PC games.

As for modding. No console games can be modded. Did you read my post up there re modding and the decline of PC sims?

[antikristuseke]

Never buy retail, thats just silly, the premiums they charge are ridiculous. Personaly I buy hardware straight from the company producing the damned things or from companies that supply retail outlets here localy. With games, one of the cheapest places to buy em online is game.co.uk iirc.

[Task Force]

o I did not... I shall revise my post apon hearing this...

[danlisa]

With games, one of the cheapest places to buy em online is game.co.uk iirc.

Ack, anything but game.co.uk. They are probably the most expensive games retailer in the UK.

Try CEX, Shopto or Amazon, anything but Game.:o

[antikristuseke]

my mind is probably playing tricks on me, am slightly hung over. And by slightly i mean im still hung over after two pints.

[pozine]

You forget. THEY are the norm and WE'RE the abnormal ones. Just look at the number of people who prefer "mindless action games" compared to the numbers who like games you have to "work" to learn. WE'RE the wierdos.


Yep, It's true.
I've nothing more to say for now...

[Letum]

...PC exclusive Simulations are not turning out the figures to sustain the market indefinitely.

Is that speculation or do you have some facts to back it up?

[stabiz]

I thought all simulations were pc exclusive. Cant think of one on console, and dont say Gran Turismo.:)

[pozine]

grand turismo 5? :D

The sims series
Forza Motorsport
Guitar Hero Series
Ghost Recon
NHL Series
FiFA Series
Other Sports game...


No Sims on Xbox? :hmmm:

[Raptor1]

grand turismo 5? :D

The sims series
Forza Motorsport
Guitar Hero Series
Ghost Recon
NHL Series
FiFA Series
Other Sports game...


No Sims on Xbox? :hmmm:

Puh-leeze, those are Simulations about as much as Tom Clancy's HAWX is.

[pozine]

Not True HaWX is an arcade game

Ex The sims are life simulation


btw Need for speed series are not simulator

[antikristuseke]

Guitar Hero? riiiight

[pozine]

Yep Rock Star Sims... like : oh yeah i can do Master Of Puppet on Expert YAY i'm a guitar god!
I actualy hate guitar hero, cause i'm a guitarist, 2 different worlds

Those are all LowCore Sims but SIMS at the end

[Takeda Shingen]

Guitar Hero? riiiight

That's what I was thinking. Nothing on that list is an actual simulator.

Simulations have a mystique about them. They are seen as something greater than 'games'. It is for that reason that we see the term 'simulation' used in marketing with far greater frequency. EA Sport's latest baseball title was called a 'Baseball Simulator' in commericals and, if I am not mistaken, Fallout 3's tag line was 'America's choice for post-nuclear simulation'. Really, it's an empty term when used in that context, as you would be hard pressed to find in them the technical complexity that is the foundation of simulation gaming.

[Spike88]

It does make you wonder why Microsoft & Sony et al are so afraid of attaching a keyboard & mouse to their consoles to allow things like simulation games. Especially when you look back at the massive success of machines like the Amiga and C64 etc which provided a stable, level playing field for developers instead of the configuration nightmare of the modern PC. Do they really think that the addition of a keyboard & mouse would stop people buying consoles? They give their audience very little credit indeed.


Mouses and Keyboards both work with the PS3. The issue is that no one codes games in which you can use them.

As for console Simulations Gran turismo counts, especially if you get the steering wheel and pedals. Plus you have ARMA II supposedly making a console appearance along with Operation Flaspoint Dragon Rising.
Plus there was one for the original Xbox that simulated a battle mech, called steel battalion, which used its own controller with joysticks, pedals, and a lot of buttons.

Here's a picture of the controller.
http://gamefocus.co.uk/shop/catalog/images/steel_battalion.jpg

[longam]

About the cost of the console...

I bought my daughter the Xbox360, and by the time I walked out the door we had spent $450.00. The unit included a memory card so that was in the cost. I had to purchase another controller.

Then I had to purchase xbox live for $10.00 a month.

Then we needed a HD for the live stuff. $100.00.

The games averages $59.00 each.

450.00 - original purchase
120.00 - a year for live
100.00 - HD
670.00 - total

oh and some head phones and a keyboard for one if the controllers, cant remember that cost.

CHEAP! yea right...

[stabiz]

As for console Simulations Gran turismo counts, especially if you get the steering wheel and pedals. Plus you have ARMA II supposedly making a console appearance along with Operation Flaspoint Dragon Rising.

I disagree, GT is more about car collecting and flashy visuals than driving simulation. Its good as console racing games go, but comes up short when compared to PC titles.

ARMA2 will have to wait, I really cant see how they will pull that of, and Operation Flashpoint 2 can hardly be called a simulation. What I have seen of the gameplay looks like Call of Duty 4 with one really big map.

If Arma2 comes without being dumbed down like for instance Race Pro (Race 07 on PC + some extra cars and a few American tracks for the US market) was, then yes, there will be simulators on consoles.:)

[Task Force]

fact is... you need more than afiew buttons to make a good sim run... on a pc you have over 100 of those buttons.

[antikristuseke]

Mouses and Keyboards both work with the PS3. The issue is that no one codes games in which you can use them.

As for console Simulations Gran turismo counts, especially if you get the steering wheel and pedals. Plus you have ARMA II supposedly making a console appearance along with Operation Flaspoint Dragon Rising.
Plus there was one for the original Xbox that simulated a battle mech, called steel battalion, which used its own controller with joysticks, pedals, and a lot of buttons.

Here's a picture of the controller.
http://gamefocus.co.uk/shop/catalog/images/steel_battalion.jpg

No, gran does no coun as a simulatorm regardless of the peripherals. The driving physics are simply too arcade.

[Spike88]

If GT5 is arcade, then I dont know what counts as simulation.

As for ARMA II, I doubt it would have to be dumbed down, it could easily work on the PS3 and 360 in its current state.

I don't understand all the console hate.

[antikristuseke]

GTR2

[Task Force]

Fact is. a console game will never be as realistic as a pc game untill consoles take full use of a keyboad and mouse... Arma 2 has alot of comands and just the fiew buttons on a controler arnt enought to realisticly control your squad...

Also consoles do not have the power of a computer... games that are ported to console from pc will never be as good as the pc game. If sh3 was ported it would be an unrealistic Peice of S***, just like Il2 birds of prey, It was dumbed down from the origional il2...

[stabiz]

GT5 is arcade if you try any of these titles: iRacing, GTR, GTR2, rFactor, Race 07, GTR Evolution, Live for Speed, Netkar Pro, Richard Burns Rally, Grand Prix Legends or GT Legends.

Hey, Richard Burns rally is available on consoles, right? Well, there it is, the only sim on consoles that I can think of.:woot: If you like rallying try to find it in a bargain bin somewhere, its easily the best rally game ever. None of the Colin McRae titles comes close.

I dont hate consoles themselves, I dislike the games made for consoles. In particular when nice games like Race 07 have to be raped (IMO) to be launched on one. Its like 99% of todays Hollywood movies, the makers assume the audience dont have the time or the interest in learning something, it must be easily accessible, with a very flat learning curve, instant action, more about effects and presentation than depth, and in the end gives me nothing back.

[Task Force]

I dont hate consoles themselves, I dislike the games made for consoles. In particular when nice games like Race 07 have to be raped (IMO) to be launched on one. Its like 99% of todays Hollywood movies, the makers assume the audience dont have the time or the interest in learning something, it must be easily accessible, with a very flat learning curve, instant action, more about effects and presentation than depth, and in the end gives me nothing back.


This rant is TF approved.:up::yep:

[stabiz]

Here we are, TF: :rotfl:

http://docs.voxeo.com/images/tutorials/muppets.jpg

[Task Force]

lol:rotfl:

[antikristuseke]

I third tha ran and am only 22.

[Task Force]

lol... and im only 16... I beat the both of you.

[stabiz]

You are?:o Well, I wi ... lose then, with my 31 summers and winters.

[HunterICX]

My brother had a PS3, sold it 2 months afterwards .... enough said
He sticks to the PS2 he has, more fun to have on that one.

complaints:

Games - Overpriced they cost 30€ more then the PC variant
Perfomance - Not impressed, it wasn'ts stable and sometimes it was showing trouble keeping up with the games demand..for its overhyped processing capability I could get similar games running on max better on my PC then the PS3.
PS2 compability - his PS3 model didnt had that option...may I ask why the hell did sony put out so many models?! it just makes no SENSE!

in my opinion..PS3 is a overhyped flop.
the PS2 back in the days was good, and it still is for its game library.

a Console is a good choice if you like Action/Adventure/RPG's/race games.
but Sims? they belong on the PC.

HunterICX

[antikristuseke]

Consoles and rpg's? The hell are you on about now? Consoles usualy have adventure games with rpg elements but no so many acual rpg's.

[Raptor1]

Consoles and rpg's? The hell are you on about now? Consoles usualy have adventure games with rpg elements but no so many acual rpg's.

RPGs come in different forms, some fit consoles and some do not.

[pozine]

Richard Burns Rally :up:

[Spike88]

I dont hate consoles themselves, I dislike the games made for consoles. In particular when nice games like Race 07 have to be raped (IMO) to be launched on one. Its like 99% of todays Hollywood movies, the makers assume the audience dont have the time or the interest in learning something, it must be easily accessible, with a very flat learning curve, instant action, more about effects and presentation than depth, and in the end gives me nothing back.
It all depends on the game. Look at oblivion/fallout/half life2 etc. Which are great on the consoles and the PC. Sure you have games that are very flat, but you still have some great games out there on the consoles.

As for simulations needing more keys than a console has, a keyboard still works with a PS3, its just no one codes their games to recognize the keyboard. And you can easily reach the same number of keys on a keyboard if you had certain keys bring pop up menus, or alter the way the keys work. Example: Silent Hunter on the PS3, X could be periscope depth, D-pad could control the height of the periscopes, you could use the analog sticks and click stuff, and if you press R2 the speed menu pops up allowing you too choose which speed you want. etc.

[antikristuseke]

Oblivion sucks, i is jus something shiny with very little actual content. Fallout 3 simply does not compare to 1 or 2, is pretty much oblivion with guns, though at least it has some conent compared to that earlyer sack of shait. And playing any shooter without a mouse is like dentisry through the anus.

[Blacklight]

Ppppt... Guitar Hero.
THIS is Guitar Hero for MY generation (and much more fun in my opinion because you can take it anywhere)
http://blog.8thlight.com/assets/2008/11/10/simon_game_w.jpg

[Aramike]

Then I had to purchase xbox live for $10.00 a month.You can get a year for $50.

[Task Force]

I also like the fact that a pc is customiseable... Of course a pc costs an arm and a leg if you want a realy good one. but If someone wants to just play simple game on a pc, they can buy one for that... If someone wants a computer that chews up and spits out crysis they can have that also... but for consoles... If I just want a simple console to play simple games that dosent have the state of the art graphics... I would have to pay that of someone that wants to buy the all out console...

and then for the lucky xbox customers theres the red ring of death.:o

(plain fact is I hate consoles because they are ruining the PC gameing, makeing developers start to swhich to them.)

[FIREWALL]

I don't have a console and probably won't get one.

But to say it will NEVER be as good as a PC. :nope:

[Spike88]

plus on a computer you can just upgrade it... you dont have to buy a new console (and hope the consoles new games arnt s***), memory card, controler,ect every fiew years... if you build a good pc, that is future prone... you can just add onto it every every once in a while... The ps3 will have support for the next 10 years, the ps2 had support for just as long. You dont have to replace it as much as you do with computer parts. Sure it starts to look aged, but like someone said 200-400 for a new console upfront is better than 400 for a computer, where you have to pay 200 to upgrade it every year or so. To build a computer on par with my ps3, I'd need to spend over what I spent for the ps3 in the first place. In two to three years I'd need to upgrade again. You can upgrade a PS3 with a new Hard drive.

I also like the fact that with a pc you can play older games... If I had a PS3 I couldnt play my old ps1 games... I dont know where you're getting your information from, but its wrong. Every PS3 out there can play PS1 games. And if you dont have the original disk, a lot of ps1 games are coming out on the Playstation Network. And more are added every thursday. Plus any PS1 games you download work on a PSP.

and if you have the rong version you can play your PS2 games ither...As for PS2 games, only certain PS3 SKU's can play them. But Sony is making an emulator, which after downloading will let you play PS2 games.

and If you look at the Wii... you cant play anything other than the S*** games out for it now...
A lot of older SNES, NES, N64, Sega Genesis, Commodore 64, Sega Master System, Turbo-Grafx 16, and Neo Geo games are available for download.
They're about 5 dollars a piece and theres over 313 of them.

[Arclight]

Task Force, if you want to bash consoles, focus on the 360. It's a lot easier! :rotfl:

Here's something to get you started. ;)
http://kotaku.com/5346777/ps3-slim-vs-xbox-360-elite-tale-of-the-tape

[Task Force]

and now I shall revise a post that I posted half asleep... now I feel like a big jacka**...:88)

[Spike88]

Task Force, if you want to bash consoles, focus on the 360. It's a lot easier! :rotfl:

Here's something to get you started. ;)
http://kotaku.com/5346777/ps3-slim-vs-xbox-360-elite-tale-of-the-tape

I concur. The 360 is a failure. A highly successful failure in which every makes games for because its easier. And people buy because its "cool" to have. :down:


Anyways, the consoles have certain games that work for them the best and others that don't, and vice versa for the PC.


I used to be one of the group that said FPS shouldn't be on consoles, until I played a few, and its just as good as mouse and keyboard. The only games that really need a mouse and keyboard to play are RTS.

[Task Force]

When at my cousents house I found that useing an analog stick to aim a snipes scope/sight is hard as h***... but I guess its cause I always have used a pc...:yep:

[Arclight]

I concur. The 360 is a failure. A highly successful failure in which every makes games for because its easier. And people buy because its "cool" to have. :down:


Anyways, the consoles have certain games that work for them the best and others that don't, and vice versa for the PC.


I used to be one of the group that said FPS shouldn't be on consoles, until I played a few, and its just as good as mouse and keyboard. The only games that really need a mouse and keyboard to play are RTS.

Hmm, not so much a failure, I guess. It's just a shame to see so much time and effort being poored into it, while leaving the "real" gamers, the ones that have been there long before the consoles gained popularity, the ones that prefer a challenge and don't mind actually having to think, out in the cold.

The one thing I really don't like is the console only-titles: I like Gran Turismo, Metal Gear and Final Fantasy (for example), but I can't play because I have to buy a console that doesn't satisfy me.

PS3 doesn't have BC. I know they're developing an emulator, but just putting the PS2 hardware back in (the first PS3s had it) would be a far superior solution.

360...? Same price as PS3 at a glance, but requires you to pay for optional upgrades to even come close to PS3 functionality.

Last thing is a matter of taste: I don't like X-box games. The first Halo game was alright, and... well, that's it. Gears of War? Please... :nope:



Oh, and imho FPS on console sucks donkeyballs. My brother bought 360 + COD5. Sold it after 2 months (actually he put it at my house after 2 weeks and didn't look back untill he sold it. Gave me a chance to play Assassin's Creed on 360. What a noisy pos! My PC doesn't even come close to that noise level while putting out better graphics and framerate), he went straight back to COD4 on PC. :D

[Task Force]

Yea, I remember back when a relative and I were playing one of the old COD games on his old Xbox... aiming was hell... I put more bullets in the ground than in him... and anouther thing... playing on a tv... the other guy can see everything you can, which ruins the entire game... no suprise snipeing...:yep:

Didnt the old xbox catch on fire... and they still get the RROD...

[Arclight]

We used to span a string/piece of rope and hang a sheet of paper from it, effectively dividing the screen in half. Did that when we still played the N64 for MarioKart and GoldenEye. :)

My brother linked me a couple of movies on YTube showing console gameplay from COD: you notice the people aim rougly at a target, and than strafe to hit. :rotfl:

I remember on the N64 playing GoldenEye, we could circle each other, emptying all the ammo for a weapon, and still not kill each other. :nope:

You can get a pretty satisfactory experience if you fine-tune the sensitivities and spend some time getting used to it, but imho a mouse just beats it hands down.

* I actually bought a second hand Xbox (first gen). Played for 2 weeks and then put it at a friend's whose Xbox had broken. I guess it's still there. :hmmm:

[Task Force]

yea, I almost always hit with me mouse... lol eventhought walking is better with an stick...:yep:

[Spike88]

Hmm, not so much a failure, I guess. It's just a shame to see so much time and effort being poored into it, while leaving the "real" gamers, the ones that have been there long before the consoles gained popularity, the ones that prefer a challenge and don't mind actually having to think, out in the cold.

I do agree a lot of console games out there are too straight forward and don't require any challenge, but still if there were no consoles gaming wouldn't be as popular.


The one thing I really don't like is the console only-titles: I like Gran Turismo, Metal Gear and Final Fantasy (for example), but I can't play because I have to buy a console that doesn't satisfy me. Samething if you own a Mac, which are becoming popular.


PS3 doesn't have BC. I know they're developing an emulator, but just putting the PS2 hardware back in (the first PS3s had it) would be a far superior solution. I'd rather download an emulator or even buy one instead of having to get a whole new system.


360...? Same price as PS3 at a glance, but requires you to pay for optional upgrades to even come close to PS3 functionality.
Actually before they decided to release the slim at 299, a 360 was about the same price as a ps3 after you bought everything to get it to the same functionality.


Last thing is a matter of taste: I don't like X-box games. The first Halo game was alright, and... well, that's it. Gears of War? Please... :nope:
I agree whole heartedly. Tis why I have a PC and a PS3, I can get the exclusive PS3 games, and 90% of the games out on the xbox.


Oh, and imho FPS on console sucks donkeyballs. My brother bought 360 + COD5. Sold it after 2 months (actually he put it at my house after 2 weeks and didn't look back untill he sold it. Gave me a chance to play Assassin's Creed on 360. What a noisy pos! My PC doesn't even come close to that noise level while putting out better graphics and framerate), he went straight back to COD4 on PC. :D

I dunno, I love the orange box on my ps3 just as much as I love it on the PC.

[Wolfehunter]

Yeah baseless rumors propagated by console companies who would love to see the death of a competitor.You said it right August.. Console wars against the PC world. Its all about that. Nothing else.

:up:

[August]

You said it right August.. Console wars against the PC world. Its all about that. Nothing else.

:up:

It's a rat race out there and market share is king.

[JMV]

There are some very good game on the XBox 360, of course, like Oblivion, Fallout 3 etc... but an XBox controller can't and will never equal a PC keyboard in terms of numbers of controls avaliable and modding potentialities...

I think a time is coming for XBox 360, ( and others ) that is not so far away, that it will be more and more difficult to innovate, just because of these limitations.

But people go for the not so cheap ( after all ) but easy. Plus a PC is more sensitive to CTD, or at least should I say, not everybody is a computer geek, or even less than that... As a comparition, I'd say there's as much difference between them as there is between reading a book, and watching the TV....

As for Microsoft FSX, I have 250 planes installed, and is a permanent resident program on my PC ( excuse me !! ).

:salute:

[Arclight]

I do agree a lot of console games out there are too straight forward and don't require any challenge, but still if there were no consoles gaming wouldn't be as popular.

Samething if you own a Mac, which are becoming popular.

I'd rather download an emulator or even buy one instead of having to get a whole new system

Actually before they decided to release the slim at 299, a 360 was about the same price as a ps3 after you bought everything to get it to the same functionality.

I agree whole heartedly. Tis why I have a PC and a PS3, I can get the exclusive PS3 games, and 90% of the games out on the xbox.

I dunno, I love the orange box on my ps3 just as much as I love it on the PC.Thats the whole point. Gaming shouldn't be popular, popular things are turned to crap.

There are Mac exclusive games?! What is this world coming to? :nope:

You missed the point, I said I was holding off because of it, not that I'd buy a new one if I already had one because of it.

I'm talking about now, not before. :D
And even then 360 didn't offer Bluetooth. :O:

Good. :)

Matter of taste, I guess. I don't like FPS to start with, only ones I do like are VietCong and OFP/Arma. You really need quick aim in those, 1 hit and you're gone. I know there's VC for console, but it's dumbed down.

[Loud_Silence]

I guess everyone forget about the '83 game crack...
If developers start focusing on selling lots and lots of poor-medium quality games instead of making one good game, we will have the stores oversloaded of crappy games, just like what happened back then.

But you know the Teladi essay... PROFIT IS GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD:yeah:

[Wolfehunter]

Thats the whole point. Gaming shouldn't be popular, popular things are turned to crap.
Agreed. Certain interest groups want PC games removed. I find the best games today are those who aren't controlled by big name publishers. Sure big named games have all the nice graphics and sounds but they're content sucks monkey balls.

I was happy when Console focused on console games and PC was for PC games.;)

[stabiz]

I agree ... somewhat. The best games recent years have been from small outfits (rFactor, Men of War, Arma 1+2, etc, etc), but the big guys have published games like SH4 and Empire: Total War. Those are exceptions of course, 99% of big titles do - as you say - suck donkey balls.

[Task Force]

yea, cause the big companys like to make the storylines sell... :yep: Ea comes to mind.:shifty:

[stabiz]

EA made F1 Challenge 99-01 (or something like that), and thats the last time they made something I liked. Almost ten years ago!

[Arclight]

Imho it's not so much about being developed by a big company, it's really about popularity;

Casual gamers outnumber core gamers by a fair margin, so for a game to be popular (ie. liked by the majority of gamers) it needs to appeal to casual gamers.

When devs listen to their fans, the majority is most likely to get what they want (of course there are exceptions: some teams want to stick to their vision instead of expanding the user base, but it's rare since money is always a concern), meaning a popular game is dumbed down or simplified because the majority wants instant gratification with minimal effort.

Both ETW and SH are scalable, making them fairly popular. Casual gamers are interested in ETW as a strategy game (imho it's a tactical game, because the battles are the focus), simply auto-resolving battles. Imho the strategy element is very simplified, but that's exactly what they are looking for. Same with SH: with auto-aim on and realism options off, it's a very simple lock-and-shoot experience, though you need to find a target first (the one "hard" thing in the game, which I think accounts for a part of the popularity gap between SH and TW games).

It's both a blessing and a curse: the simplification comes at a cost for core gamers, but without it the games would not be popular enough to keep producing new ones.

*(forgive me for the broad terms like casual- and coregamer, it's not ment to offend.)

[Task Force]

EA made F1 Challenge 99-01 (or something like that), and thats the last time they made something I liked. Almost ten years ago!

lol, yea, I think Ive only liked maby one or to of Eletronic A**holes games...

[Dowly]

Jebus, I was sure I had already replied to this. Righto, I havent read the whole thread and I'm pissed drunk atm so, well so what.

Anywho, what's wityh all tyhe console bashing? I can assure, most of the best games (subject to debate yaadiyaa) are on consoles. Metal Gear Solid for one, yes I know it's been ported ot PC, but IMHO it's best played iwth a gamepad, on console.

Consoles arent killing thE PC gaming nor the simulationms, it's the wanker devs who want to take the easy way out and make some mindless FPS for consoles (see HALO, worst game ever, pleasr rant me with PM so I can call you ****ing roostersuckers privately). Easy money is what is killing simulations.

EDIT: For the umtheenth time Neal, your censor thing is broken. :-?

EDIT2: Nvm, changed to roostersuckers. :yeah:

[Arclight]

:rotfl:

Fair enough. Now all we need is someone to come in here and blame it all on piracy, followed by the obligatory DRM debat. :hmmm:

[Task Force]

:rotfl:

Fair enough. Now all we need is someone to come in here and blame it all on piracy, followed by the obligatory DRM debat. :hmmm:

I blame it all on piracy, and DRMs suck.:O::rotfl: lol

[Arclight]

Good, than we can get back on track;

Oh noes, casual games are killing sims! :D
http://www.myextralife.com/

[Task Force]

http://www.myextralife.com/comic/09192001/
this one reminds me of alot of games lol...

[Arclight]

Sure does, but there are cars that have defects as well.

Alfa Romeo, for example. Some of their cars have a tendency to blow the head gasket, making for an expensive repair. It's also possible the head will warp when the gasket goes, and than you're really up crap creak.

And yet, everybody wants one. Just proves that the public at large needs to get their heads out of their asses. :nope:

[Task Force]

Sure does, but there are cars that have defects as well.

Alfa Romeo, for example. Some of their cars have a tendency to blow the head gasket, making for an expensive repair. It's also possible the head will warp when the gasket goes, and than you're really up crap creak.

And yet, everybody wants one. Just proves that the public at large needs to get their heads out of their asses. :nope:

Oah yes... lol, ive seen the topgear alfa romeo episode... I can see why they never cought on in the states... lol

[Arclight]

It's the same with everything: a whole lot of crap and relatively few quality products. Problem with games is you can't take them back and you don't get a gaurantee. Luckily they're pushing for just that here in Europe. :)

[Task Force]

It's the same with everything: a whole lot of crap and relatively few quality products. Problem with games is you can't take them back and you don't get a gaurantee. Luckily they're pushing for just that here in Europe. :)

hmm... would be nice for games to have a gaurentee...:yep:

[Arclight]

From a consumers perspective, yes. :hmmm:

But it might either kill the industry because everyone takes back unfinished games, or it might convince the publishers to allow a little more time for development (possibly raising prices). :-?