[REQ] WWI submarine mod

[keltos01]

Can someone make a WWI Campaign in the North Sea, Channel and Baltic maybe ?

then we can work on the submarines, both allied and Austro-germans.

Keltos

[GerritJ9]

If you need drawings of WW1 U-Boote, I have "Geschichte des deutschen Ubootbaus" which contains useful drawings etc of various U-Boot types. Would be happy to scan what you need.

[Zachstar]

Can someone make a WWI Campaign in the North Sea, Channel and Baltic maybe ?

then we can work on the submarines, both allied and Austro-germans.

Keltos

Do you realize that is likely a multi year project to do right?

[keltos01]

Do you realize that is likely a multi year project to do right?


I've been on the IJN subs nearly eighteen months now.. so has Peabody.. so yes I do.

Der Schalen des zorns or Shells of fury is very nice but the engine isn't. the german develloppers didn't have nor the time or the money to make one as their aim was a 28 euros range game.

I respect their work, but think it deserves better.

keltos

[miner1436]

Maybe it is possible for a unit conversion to SHIV?

[keltos01]

Maybe it is possible for a unit conversion to SHIV?


that's what I was hoping for, maybe ask Skwasjer to have a look at the files ?

keltos

[iambecomelife]

Can someone make a WWI Campaign in the North Sea, Channel and Baltic maybe ?

then we can work on the submarines, both allied and Austro-germans.

Keltos

Sit tight, my friend - sit tight! I've got you covered. More details in about 1 week... :smug:

[Highbury]

The biggest obstacle to a proper WWI sim on the SH engine is the inability to operate under the prize rules. SH is all about unrestricted submarine warfare. While the Germans did of course declare unrestricted submarine warfare later in the war, for the most part it was conducted under the prize rules. Lothar von Arnauld de la Perière was Commander of U-35 and U-139 in WWI and is the highest scoring of all time (446,708 GRT) .. he only fired 4 torps in his career, and one missed. It was much different then WWII.

So obviously we could get SH to look like a WWI game, but can we get it to play like one?

(I am not knocking the idea, I have far more interest in WWI sims then WWII if I had a choice.)

[keltos01]

The biggest obstacle to a proper WWI sim on the SH engine is the inability to operate under the prize rules. SH is all about unrestricted submarine warfare. While the Germans did of course declare unrestricted submarine warfare later in the war, for the most part it was conducted under the prize rules. Lothar von Arnauld de la Perière was Commander of U-35 and U-139 in WWI and is the highest scoring of all time (446,708 GRT) .. he only fired 4 torps in his career, and one missed. It was much different then WWII.

So obviously we could get SH to look like a WWI game, but can we get it to play like one?

(I am not knocking the idea, I have far more interest in WWI sims then WWII if I had a choice.)

have you played Shells of Fury ? there is a topic about it here on subsim, here's what you have :

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=230


http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5240/1914shellsoffury.jpg (http://img36.imageshack.us/i/1914shellsoffury.jpg/)




1914 - Shells Of Fury

Set in WWI, "1914 Shells of Fury" is the first WWI
submarine simulation to be released. Players have
command their very own WWI Submarine from the
German Emperor's fleet. Prepare to participate in
exciting underwater missions from WWI, and work
out detailed strategies using powerful weapons.
Take command and control of the various missions
given, while roaming across the ocean. Players
must use tactical skills in order to survive and
move ahead of the opponent.

First Submarine simulation of World War I

Detailed models of Submarines, Warships, Merchant
Ships and Airplanes

Four different German Submarine boats to choose
from: Armada-Petrolboat, Armada-Dieselboat, UB-I
and UC-II.
Over 50 individual missions with accurate
historical backgrounds
Campaign-mode from 1914 to 1918
Mission-generator
Adjustable levels of difficulty
Realistic Submarine Stations
and a screenshot :

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/7009/1914schalendeszornsbeta.jpg (http://img188.imageshack.us/i/1914schalendeszornsbeta.jpg/)

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/7009/1914schalendeszornsbeta.jpg (http://img33.imageshack.us/i/1914schalendeszornsbeta.jpg/)


doesn't it deserve better ?

keltos

[Trool323]

A WW1 mod sounds awesome. However, to model all the necessary ships would take a lot of time, and thats not even half the battle. We're talking 3 months just to get started and 1 year to finish i'd say. Unless of coarse you worked for 10 hours a day with a slow drool coming from the lips. :) It may get done sooner if this was done.lol. Its fun to dream though. "I like to dream yes, yes, right between my sound machine"

Steppenwolf lyrics ;)

[GerritJ9]

I vaguely recall reading somewhere that a Russian version of "Die Schalen des Zorns" was released, but which featured playable Russian subs rather than U-Boote. Supposedly this sim was only released in Russia- perhaps one of our Russian board members can confirm this?
The screenshots of "Die Schalen des Zorns" seem to indicate that the included U-Boote are modelled fairly accurately, but the graphics look dreadful..............

[Highbury]

Of course I have playes SoF, Keltos :up: I find a game like that which comes close and doesn't deliver more frustrating then just not having one lol.

That does miss my point entirely though, which is, can SH4 be made to play taking Prize Regulations into account? If not it will LOOK like WWI, and PLAY like WWII.

[WalterJConklin]

Hey Guys, I would like to draw your attention the following threads at:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=227939&highlight=american+civil+w ar&page=93 (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=227939&highlight=american+civil+war&page=93).

http://ww1tw.spruz.com/forums/?page=post&id=72D5ACCA-1B5D-4394-901B-D834EAC8CDD0&fid=CF65FDA2-ABFB-4328-86BE-C4C1F1FF8B98 (http://ww1tw.spruz.com/forums/?page=post&id=72D5ACCA-1B5D-4394-901B-D834EAC8CDD0&fid=CF65FDA2-ABFB-4328-86BE-C4C1F1FF8B98)

[miner1436]

Well I took a look at the Shells Of Fury 3D models, they are in .x format and can be converted to .obj.

[keltos01]

Well I took a look at the Shells Of Fury 3D models, they are in .x format and can be converted to .obj.


what do we need to do that ???

keltos

[miner1436]

There are some freeware converters out there, just forgot the names of them.:damn:

[pozine]

i have them i think
ill give you a link in not so long

[pozine]

http://www.andytather.co.uk/Panda/directxmax_downloads.aspx

To export .X files in 3ds Max...
Not sure if its usefull

[iambecomelife]

The biggest obstacle to a proper WWI sim on the SH engine is the inability to operate under the prize rules. SH is all about unrestricted submarine warfare. While the Germans did of course declare unrestricted submarine warfare later in the war, for the most part it was conducted under the prize rules. Lothar von Arnauld de la Perière was Commander of U-35 and U-139 in WWI and is the highest scoring of all time (446,708 GRT) .. he only fired 4 torps in his career, and one missed. It was much different then WWII.

So obviously we could get SH to look like a WWI game, but can we get it to play like one?

(I am not knocking the idea, I have far more interest in WWI sims then WWII if I had a choice.)

I have thought up a way to trick SH4 into operating under the prize rules (with limitations) thanks to new modding software, a total revision of the "nationality" concept, & sh4's improved character generation routines. Again, more info soon.

And as for the number of ships, keep in mind that there are already several WWI-era ships in the various Silent Hunter games, so that reduces the workload. For instance, four-pipers, old merchants, & V&W's . Plus, some of us might have been working on WWI ships for other mods. :cool:

[Highbury]

Plus, some of us might have been working on WWI ships for other mods. :cool:

Yeah, I saw you were working on a WWI mod on the twcenter forums. I assume that was you... unless there is another iambecomelife out there :O::D

[keltos01]

I have thought up a way to trick SH4 into operating under the prize rules (with limitations) thanks to new modding software, a total revision of the "nationality" concept, & sh4's improved character generation routines. Again, more info soon.

what software is that ???



And as for the number of ships, keep in mind that there are already several WWI-era ships in the various Silent Hunter games, so that reduces the workload. For instance, four-pipers, old merchants, & V&W's . Plus, some of us might have been working on WWI ships for other mods. :cool:

did the US send Subs to the european theater of war or fight with them elsewhere ?

[edit]
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/4034/uswwiww103.gif (http://img269.imageshack.us/i/uswwiww103.gif/)


The first U.S. submarines to arrive in European waters were USS K-1, K-2, K-5, and K-6, which reached the Azores in October 1917.

Nonetheless, because the Royal Navy in 1916 had begun assigning submarines to anti-U-boat patrols in the North Sea, the English Channel, and the Irish Sea, the U.S. naval high command in June 1917 proposed sending a contingent of submarines to European waters to assist in the anti-submarine campaign. Initially, SUBLANT designated 12 submarines for the mission, divided into separate divisions to be stationed, respectively, in the Azores and on the southern coast of Ireland. These boats were chosen from the most capable the Navy had to offer: USS K-1, K-2, K-5, K-6, and E-1, constituting SUBDIV 4, for the Azores; and USS L-1 through L-4 and L-9 through L-11, constituting SUBDIV 5, for Bantry Bay, Ireland.

http://sub-log.com/united_states_submarines_in_wwi

I live at the center of the warzone for WWI ;)

keltos

[keltos01]

So I see that Iambecomelife is interrested in a WWI mod too, since he posted a poll here :

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=155297

Well maybe close this thread down then ? the kindo answers I hoped for are in the other thread...

He might've thought of placing that poll in here too, but then again he didn't.

keltos

[iambecomelife]

The software I speak of is the latest version of S3ditor. It enables zone manipulations that allow me to affect merchant ships' behavior (albeit crudely).

To make the system work I will also rely on the players themselves to use their powers of observation and deductive reasoning. No more blowing anything out of the water - early on, even British ships could not be destroyed if they were not carrying contraband. If you pay close attention, you should have some idea of what you may (and may not) sink.

[Sledgehammer427]

apparently this has been planned for quite some time:hmmm:

[keltos01]

Well if so now would be the time to define team members no ?

I would like to know if Peabody would be interrested in, as he is making the campaign layers for our IJN campaign and is expert at implementing thing in SH4 like new guns etc...

You too Sledgehammer, we'll need your expertise,

Iambecomelife : same goes !

I can work on the 3d stuff, zones etc... I've made quite a few playable subs so far ;)

I have loads of intel on WWI subs and since I live in Belgium, for once I am at the heart of the conflict !

I have access to intel, have quite a few books on the subject too etc...

keltos

[Sledgehammer427]

I'd love to help! if IABL wants us to, that is.
but by all means, my services are at your disposal
:yeah:

[Hitman]

Take a look here, you'll find it most interesting:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=140882

[iambecomelife]

Well if so now would be the time to define team members no ?

I would like to know if Peabody would be interrested in, as he is making the campaign layers for our IJN campaign and is expert at implementing thing in SH4 like new guns etc...

You too Sledgehammer, we'll need your expertise,

Iambecomelife : same goes !

I can work on the 3d stuff, zones etc... I've made quite a few playable subs so far ;)

I have loads of intel on WWI subs and since I live in Belgium, for once I am at the heart of the conflict !

I have access to intel, have quite a few books on the subject too etc...

keltos

Excellent; your assistance would be most welcome, b/c I have never made a playable sub before. As of now 3d modeling for one German sub is nearly complete; there are plans to add 3-4 more classes for starters. (Unless I obtain really excellent sources & recruit an interior modeler, interiors will be stock SH3/SH4 with appropriate modifications, like no radar).

One thing I would really like to do is add retractable masts and smoke pipes to early subs like the U-9. I am trying to teach myself how to do this but I may need help.

Plus, in addition to help with submarines I badly need information on the following:

-Uniforms
-Contraband Regulations
-Restrictions on Submarine Warfare (I know that circa 1917-1918 the rules were much more relaxed).
-Maps/pics of major harbors

[Hitman]

One thing I would really like to do is add retractable masts and smoke pipes to early subs like the U-9. I am trying to teach myself how to do this but I may need help.


Tie the funnel to the snorkel, and set the diesel engine working depth in a manner that even surfaced it won't start unless the snorkel is raised :D

[Sledgehammer427]

you could also talk to Anvart, IIRC he knows every which-way around making things go up in-game

heres a useful link I found, with a U-boat interior picture. looks just like the WWII ones
http://uboat.net/history/wwi/index.htm (http://uboat.net/history/wwi/)

EDIT: also, I got a book on Kriegsmarine Uniforms 1914-1945 ;)

[iambecomelife]

Tie the funnel to the snorkel, and set the diesel engine working depth in a manner that even surfaced it won't start unless the snorkel is raised :D

I have settled on SH4 as a platform, so is the snorkel included? Yes, I am that clueless - I have about 20-24 hrs of SH4 patrols under my belt!

[keltos01]

I have settled on SH4 as a platform, so is the snorkel included? Yes, I am that clueless - I have about 20-24 hrs of SH4 patrols under my belt!

there is one but I don't think it was implemented, I know Peabody made our for the IJN mod, I think there's one in Operation Monsun too.

can you post pictures of the sub you are working on please ?

keltos

[peabody]

I have settled on SH4 as a platform, so is the snorkel included?

There is a snorkel 3D model in the library/GerSubParts/Senzori_uboat.dat but there is no 3D model for the US side. As Keltos said it is not implimented. When it is implimented you get a couple knots more speed submerged but it does not do anything about the CO2 levels.

Peaboy

[iambecomelife]

Sledgehammer & Keltos, I will be sending you additional details & screenshots by PM soon. If anyone else is familiar with making playable subs or can help with research, etc feel free to contact me!

[keltos01]

Sledgehammer & Keltos, I will be sending you additional details & screenshots by PM soon. If anyone else is familiar with making playable subs or can help with research, etc feel free to contact me!

I just found where you've been all this time ;)

the SH3 forum !

keltos

[iambecomelife]

I just found where you've been all this time ;)

the SH3 forum !

keltos

Yes; this is going to be my first mod for SH4 (not counting merchant vessels other people ported over for me).

[Sledgehammer427]

I await your PM with bated breath IABL
I also found my copy of The Kaiser's Uboats by osprey publishing, in eBook format, so I can help with the playable boats

[keltos01]

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/7580/britishsubswwi.jpg (http://img40.imageshack.us/i/britishsubswwi.jpg/)



I await your PM with bated breath IABL
I also found my copy of The Kaiser's Uboats by osprey publishing, in eBook format, so I can help with the playable boats

a good book indeed ;) I have a couple more like "anti submarine warfare in WWI" and

British submarines of WWI - they had hunter-killer submarines capable of 15 knots submerged !

also : "the encyclopedia of uboots from 1904 to the present"

"HM Submarines in Camera 1901-1996"

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/7580/britishsubswwi.jpg (http://img43.imageshack.us/i/britishsubswwi.jpg/)


http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/8150/89218941.jpg (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/89218941.jpg/)
U-1 "Jane's Submarine war beneath the waves 1776-"


a documentary : Gallipoli Submarine

a movie (1933) : Morgenrot (filmed in a WWI sub in 1933, an early Das Boot)


keltos

[iambecomelife]

Thank you for all the assistance.

Today I have been using the stock SH4 ships as testbeds for some of the ideas I want to incorporate - for instance, better AI launched torpedoes & appropriate behavior for neutral merchants when they encounter the player sub. Tomorrow I will send some screenshots & a text document to you guys with a list of features &c.

[Deamon]

The biggest obstacle to a proper WWI sim on the SH engine is the inability to operate under the prize rules.
I think when you study this subject in-depth you will realize SH needs A LOT more than juts prize rules to play like a real WWI sim.

To this reason alone SH was never an option for my own project.

So obviously we could get SH to look like a WWI game, but can we get it to play like one?Even if it would just look like one I would subscribe to it. :yep: And I think the answere to your question is clearly NO.

I think there is a number of things that can be get out of SH. Obviously you would need to remove all asdics. The early war hydrophones need to be ****ty and not even all ships have them, include air ships/blimps.

Are q-ships even possible in SH ?

But so many other things would be still missing, a hell of a lot of minefields(especially the early british mines were malfunctioning but overall mines were omnipresent and a big probelm, big navigational challenge ( but there is no realistic navigation in SH ) ), many huge nets, there are no nets towed by ships to fish for you and stuff. No early war towed water bombs, no flares ect, ect.

As the war progresses there would need to be SOSUS systems on british coasts, remote controlled mine fields, beam barriers( britain exploited the circumstance that the german torpedos had no safety mechanism. Once put in the tube they would go off when it would collide with the tube hatch, so british forces would tow a long chain of heavy logs at night across the channel for example. At night the u-boat would not see it and collide with it and the torpedo in the tube would slide against the tube hatch and detonate. I don't know how many u-boats got lost this way but england would try any trick at hand and there was a lot going on back then. It is interesting to mention that the german boats would always dismount the warheads and store them seperately from the torpedos below the floor plates, specially secured ), light buoys and chains of boats illuminating the straight of dover barrier by burning magnesium and big spot lights on the coasts at night.

All sort of spy boats, drifter at night listening with hydrophones for you and stuff. In good weather when an u-boat is detected somewhere, everything afloat would be sent out to hunt it or just keep it submerged till it suffocates. Especially in WWI you have a myriad of auxillary vehicles of all sorts ( since nothing else was available or would be detached ). This is the main force you have to deal with actually and not destroyers, at least not in the first half of the war. A lot of armed fish trawlers, yachts, sail boats and stuff.

The british fleet command would be very stingy with detaching destroyers and torpedo boats for ASW duty especially early in the war since they wanted to keep them ready for the fleet, since at that time everything was awaiting the decisive battle with the german fleet. And of course british subs would be always after you when you leave or return to port.

Contraband classification would be changing constantly. Somewhere into the war you would receive almost daily radio messages with new contraband that you would have to add to the list while removing others from it. So you would have to go through the lists every time and see if you are still dealing with contraband. This are just some random examples and not even to mentioned the peculiarities of the WWI technologies and different operational procedures.

There is so much needed for a proper WWI sim. Overall WWI is so much different from WWII, there is so so much that is overlooked, I can easily bubble all night long about it. Anybody who studied it realizes that.

But even if most of this is not possible just driving this old boats would be a fresh new wind and certainly appreciated. I was waiting for this, so go ahead. :salute:

[Deamon]

a documentary : Gallipoli Submarine
Where can I get hold of it ?

a movie (1933) : Morgenrot (filmed in a WWI sub in 1933, an early Das Boot)This is one badass movie :yep: It's better than Das Boot, imo.

[keltos01]

Where can I get hold of it ?

This is one badass movie :yep: It's better than Das Boot, imo.

I have it, I found it on mininova I think, but it's 700 mb... and my internet connection isn't working great these days but I should change provider soon, will try and upload then.

so you saw Morgenrot ? do you know if there are any subtitles outthere ? I speak some german, but not enough...

keltos

[keltos01]

[quote=Deamon;1161141]I think when you study this subject in-depth you will realize SH needs A LOT more than juts prize rules to play like a real WWI sim.

To this reason alone SH was never an option for my own project.
what was the option you'd have preferred then ?

Even if it would just look like one I would subscribe to it. :yep:
ever tried Die Schalen der Zorns (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1914_Shells_of_Fury) ? made by Rondomedia (http://www.rondomedia.de/index.php?id=30)

And I think the answere to your question is clearly NO.

I think there is a number of things that can be get out of SH. Obviously you would need to remove all asdics. The early war hydrophones need to be ****ty and not even all ships have them, include air ships/blimps.
and they had to stop the engines to use them..

Are q-ships even possible in SH ?
maybe make the guns visible at very short range only ?

But so many other things would be still missing, a hell of a lot of minefields(especially the early british mines were malfunctioning but overall mines were omnipresent and a big probelm, big navigational challenge ( but there is no realistic navigation in SH ) )
they closed off the north sea between Norway and Scotland with mines...

, many huge nets, there are no nets towed by ships to fish for you and stuff. No early war towed water bombs, no flares ect, ect.

As the war progresses there would need to be SOSUS systems on british coasts, remote controlled mine fields,
what are those ?

beam barriers( britain exploited the circumstance that the german torpedos had no safety mechanism. Once put in the tube they would go off when it would collide with the tube hatch, so british forces would tow a long chain of heavy logs at night across the channel for example. At night the u-boat would not see it and collide with it and the torpedo in the tube would slide against the tube hatch and detonate.

:o

All sort of spy boats, drifter at night listening with hydrophones for you and stuff.
late war then.

In good weather when an u-boat is detected somewhere, everything afloat would be sent out to hunt it or just keep it submerged till it suffocates. Especially in WWI you have a myriad of auxillary vehicles of all sorts ( since nothing else was available or would be detached ). This is the main force you have to deal with actually and not destroyers, at least not in the first half of the war. A lot of armed fish trawlers, yachts, sail boats and stuff.
you sure did your research !

Contraband classification would be changing constantly.
that's gonna be hard to implement in SH4... how do you search ships ???

This are just some random examples and not even to mentioned the peculiarities of the WWI technologies and different operational procedures.

There is so much needed for a proper WWI sim. Overall WWI is so much different from WWII, there is so so much that is overlooked, I can easily bubble all night long about it. Anybody who studied it realizes that.
yeah but still, Die Schalen der Zorns isn't that bad, just looks awful...

But even if most of this is not possible just driving this old boats would be a fresh new wind and certainly appreciated. I was waiting for this, so go ahead. :salute:

who will write the campaign layers ?

I'll help any way I can though..

keltos

[Sledgehammer427]

beam barriers( britain exploited the circumstance that the german torpedos had no safety mechanism. Once put in the tube they would go off when it would collide with the tube hatch, so british forces would tow a long chain of heavy logs at night across the channel for example. At night the u-boat would not see it and collide with it and the torpedo in the tube would slide against the tube hatch and detonate.

I died laughing when I read that. how simple that is

I remember reading that the only defense they (the brits) had for scapa flow was a bunch of enlisted in rowboats with hammers, when spotting a german periscope, they would row over and smash the periscope until it disappeared:har:

[iambecomelife]

Sledgehammer and Keltos, check your PM's please.

And Deamon, my mod's intended to be an approximation of WWI warfare within the limitations of SH4. I agree that the Silent Hunter series does not take a precison-oriented "study sim" approach to underwater craft. This is basically going to be an effort to give SH4 a WWI flavor - not replicate some of the more complicated aspects in detail. However, some crucial features definitely will be included. Q-ships are in, as are mine barrages. I have thought of a way to implement contraband searching for merchants, thanks to the excellent S3ditor v 9.9 - this is being tested at the moment.

For a detailed WWI sub sim we'll have to wait for your mod (which I want now - badly - but that's another story!) Thanks for your comments.:salute:

[keltos01]

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4210/qship.jpg (http://img215.imageshack.us/i/qship.jpg/)


right, so we can open the SOF meshes in blender (which I do not know) and export them to 3ds (which I do know) but when I apply the texture in 3ds, all black...

here above : a Q ship

there are also 4 ? subs in SOF.

keltos

[horsa]

when I apply the texture in 3ds, all black...

I think I had this problem when I used the SOF models for Iron Seas. :hmm2:

If I remember correctly the solution was to reverse the faces ??

Good luck with the project guys :up:

[Mikhayl]

I remember converting the fishing trawler and one of the dreadnoughts for SH4, IIRC I converted the model using Deep Exploration, from .x to .fbx I think, or any format that won't mess the uv-mapping.
Then in 3DSmax you have to rotate, resize, arrange some of the bits and delete some parts and that's about it :)

[keltos01]

http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/789/u35b.jpg (http://img200.imageshack.us/i/u35b.jpg/)
U35

Fragmotion does it, iambecomelife told me

keltos

[Sledgehammer427]

Ooooooo, I must start on something.
but what?
aye, that be the question

EDIT:Started on a UB class, it is a heavily modified Type II, but you can hardly tell anymore :D
http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo351/Fastrat91/Sledgehammer50.jpg

[keltos01]

models from Shells of Fury

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/8610/u35r.jpg (http://img194.imageshack.us/i/u35r.jpg/)

U35

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/8391/u53.jpg (http://img36.imageshack.us/i/u53.jpg/)

U53


http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/7530/ub1.jpg (http://img86.imageshack.us/i/ub1.jpg/) http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/ub1.jpg/1/w717.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img86/ub1.jpg/1/)

UB1



http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3131/uc2y.jpg (http://img223.imageshack.us/i/uc2y.jpg/)

UC2

seen here in fragMOTIONhttp://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo351/Fastrat91/Sledgehammer50.jpg

Sledgehammmer427 UB Class


and an unidentified Uboot by Iambecomelife ;) (didn't say the class he was working on in his post)


keltos

[Sledgehammer427]

and suddenly we have all the subs we need :D

EDIT: IABL identified it as the U-9

[gimpy117]

is it legal to pull them from shells of fury?

[Sledgehammer427]

from the liscense agreement

3. Prohibited Uses. The following uses of the Software are prohibited. If you wish to use the Software in a manner prohibited below, please contact the Company at the address, phone, or fax numbers listed above for information regarding a "Special Use License. "Otherwise, you may NOT :
(a) Make or distribute copies of the Software or documentation, or any portion thereof, except as expressly provided in this Agreement.
(b) Use any backup or archival copy of the Software (or allow someone else to use such copy) for any purpose other than to replace the original copy in the event it is destroyed or becomes defective;
(c) Alter, decompile, modify, reverse engineer or disassemble the Software, create derivative works based upon the Software, or make any attempt to bypass, unlock or disable any protective or initialization system on the Software;
(d) Rent, lease, sub-license, time-share, or transfer the Software or documentation, or your rights under this Agreement.
(e) Remove or obscure any copyright or trademark notice(s) on the Software or documentation;
(f) Upload or transmit the Software, or any portion thereof, to any electronic bulletin board, network, or other type of multi-use computer system regardless of purpose;
(g) Include the Software in any commercial products intended for manufacture, distribution, or sale; or
(h) Include the Software in any product containing immoral, scandalous, controversial, derogatory, obscene, or offensive works.

EDIT: so it really depends on what your definition of "software" is.
other than that, as long as we credit them for the original models, it seems to be okay.
Another edit. Section (f) worries me, as well as (c)

[Highbury]

I hate to say it (I want a WWI mod sooo bad) but the EULA definitely says no. This is the stance taken by pretty much all game companies. Sometimes they will allow you to mod their past work into current engines. (Example, SimBim racing titles. You are allowed to port cars from older to newer titles made by SimBin, but not the other way around, or to titles by other companies.) But extracting the models from one game to another is usually "taboo" if not outright illegal.

Lines (c) and (f) aside, you can't get by (a):

"(a) Make or distribute copies of the Software or documentation, or any portion thereof, except as expressly provided in this Agreement."

The models are definitely a portion of the software by anyone's definition. Putting them in the mod for download is distributing them.


You can always ask permission and see......

[iambecomelife]

I hate to say it (I want a WWI mod sooo bad) but the EULA definitely says no. This is the stance taken by pretty much all game companies. Sometimes they will allow you to mod their past work into current engines. (Example, SimBim racing titles. You are allowed to port cars from older to newer titles made by SimBin, but not the other way around, or to titles by other companies.) But extracting the models from one game to another is usually "taboo" if not outright illegal.

Lines (c) and (f) aside, you can't get by (a):

"(a) Make or distribute copies of the Software or documentation, or any portion thereof, except as expressly provided in this Agreement."

The models are definitely a portion of the software by anyone's definition. Putting them in the mod for download is distributing them.


You can always ask permission and see......

Not a problem - I will simply use the SOF models as references instead. There are already several models for the game (including U-9) that are either scratchbuilt or incorporate small numbers of SH4 parts.

[iambecomelife]

Ooooooo, I must start on something.
but what?
aye, that be the question

EDIT:Started on a UB class, it is a heavily modified Type II, but you can hardly tell anymore :D


Wow; that is just superb! Who needs SOF? I will do my best to help out with the submarines in the unit list I gave you but that's going to be hard to equal. By all means model what you want but it might be best if I focused on the surface units.

[Sledgehammer427]

thank you IABL!
I just emailed rondomedia on the off-chance they will allow us to use their models (which i doubt, but it is worth a try).

I will start on a U-cruiser type now :DL
after I post a picture or two of the finished UB before I split the Hull and tower into seperate models.
http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo351/Fastrat91/Sledgehammer51.jpg
Bridge helm, as the screenshot provides, might be removed.
http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo351/Fastrat91/Sledgehammer52.jpg

[keltos01]

Wow; that is just superb! Who needs SOF? I will do my best to help out with the submarines in the unit list I gave you but that's going to be hard to equal. By all means model what you want but it might be best if I focused on the surface units.

I can clone the SOF units and make new ones so as not to have any copyrights problems, btw I couldn't find the game on rondomedia so it might be they don't sell it anymore...

I'll use them as a blueprint and add stuff seen from photos if any are outthere.

we also need British subs and US subs.

keltos

[Sledgehammer427]

I started on the U-cruiser class IABL put in his WWI sub classes thread, starting from scratch, I'll have to post a thread, to show all the work it takes to build a sub from scratch...

[keltos01]

thank you IABL!
I just emailed rondomedia on the off-chance they will allow us to use their models (which i doubt, but it is worth a try).

I will start on a U-cruiser type now :DL
after I post a picture or two of the finished UB before I split the Hull and tower into seperate models.
http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo351/Fastrat91/Sledgehammer51.jpg
Bridge helm, as the screenshot provides, might be removed.
http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo351/Fastrat91/Sledgehammer52.jpg

Neat !

I have a question though : how do you cut through a mesh (not a solid) to cut away the torpedo doors, then use the cutout part as a door ? Everytime I do that with meshes in 3DS I get weird results... guess it cuts along the polygons not the inserted shape used to do the cutting.

anyways, if we start with a couple subs that's good enough isn't it ?

I have those IJN subs (Sen Toku) to finish off... ;) but I will help with what little time I have.

keltos

[keltos01]

SOF U35 :


http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/9755/u53frag.jpg (http://img340.imageshack.us/i/u53frag.jpg/)



Obviously the SOF models have simple models the details come with the texture. and I guess, like in SH4, sometimes very detailed like the 3d plancking on the Typ IX (missing on US subs) sometimes not.

keltos

[Sledgehammer427]

Neat !

I have a question though : how do you cut through a mesh (not a solid) to cut away the torpedo doors, then use the cutout part as a door ? Everytime I do that with meshes in 3DS I get weird results... guess it cuts along the polygons not the inserted shape used to do the cutting.

anyways, if we start with a couple subs that's good enough isn't it ?

I have those IJN subs (Sen Toku) to finish off... ;) but I will help with what little time I have.

keltos

I use MM3D but I'm sure the things can be replicated in a more complicated 3d program.

1. I take the sub with the tubes I want and I remove the whole sub, leaving the tubes.
-save and exit.
2.When you have the model you want, select the faces you want to use as the torpedo tubes.
-Copy the faces into your clipboard
-before moving on, save your whole sub as a group.
-select your torpedo tube doors, and scale them inward, to the point wheres about a 30cm gap between the faces.
-then paste your doors, which are the exact size and scale of the cutouts you just made
-you can save these and modify your doors later

thats kinda how I do it, I prolly forgot something though:D

[keltos01]

replied on the narwhal thread, sorry I brought this up in this thread, you can erase your replies in here

keltos

[keltos01]

SH427 :

when you make a sub, do you work with solids, cut merge etc.. then turn to mesh or do you have some other way ?

keltos

[Sledgehammer427]

In MM3D My scratchbuilt sub usually starts as a long rectangle. I believe I work with a mesh, which I can preview as a solid, then I can just click back to the mesh and continue editing.
I rarely remove anything from my models and I have a simple copy/paste function to add on what I need. For instance, If I need torpedo tubes, I'll copy a set and then load my model, where I paste them and work with them that way.
MM3D is dirt basic, but it gets the job done. It opens up .objs and I can set texture coordinates easily without much hassle. I cannot Bake AO maps, which is why I have a copy of Blender and 3DS Max standing by to do that. I suggest you download it and give it a try. It'll blow your mind!

[iambecomelife]

I use MM3D but I'm sure the things can be replicated in a more complicated 3d program.

1. I take the sub with the tubes I want and I remove the whole sub, leaving the tubes.
-save and exit.
2.When you have the model you want, select the faces you want to use as the torpedo tubes.
-Copy the faces into your clipboard
-before moving on, save your whole sub as a group.
-select your torpedo tube doors, and scale them inward, to the point wheres about a 30cm gap between the faces.
-then paste your doors, which are the exact size and scale of the cutouts you just made
-you can save these and modify your doors later

thats kinda how I do it, I prolly forgot something though:D

Interesting. Maybe something similar can be done in wings3d to make better casemates for ships' guns; so many classes had their guns indented in the hull, and this is probably the hardest feature for me to model.

Thanks again for all of the help!

[keltos01]

In MM3D My scratchbuilt sub usually starts as a long rectangle. I believe I work with a mesh, which I can preview as a solid, then I can just click back to the mesh and continue editing.
I rarely remove anything from my models and I have a simple copy/paste function to add on what I need. For instance, If I need torpedo tubes, I'll copy a set and then load my model, where I paste them and work with them that way.
MM3D is dirt basic, but it gets the job done. It opens up .objs and I can set texture coordinates easily without much hassle. I cannot Bake AO maps, which is why I have a copy of Blender and 3DS Max standing by to do that. I suggest you download it and give it a try. It'll blow your mind!

:haha: blow my mind ;)

dl misfit 1.2.4 now, we'll see how easy it is....

keltos

[Sledgehammer427]

Interesting. Maybe something similar can be done in wings3d to make better casemates for ships' guns; so many classes had their guns indented in the hull, and this is probably the hardest feature for me to model.

Thanks again for all of the help!

No problem, Being a WWI buff, I couldn't pass this opportunity up!
I have an idea for the casemates. I'll have to see if I can pull it off

[Deamon]

I've made quite a few playable subs so far ;)
Are there any screenshots of your work somewhere ?

I have loads of intel on WWI subs and since I live in Belgium, for once I am at the heart of the conflict !Subs of what nations ?

so you saw Morgenrot ? do you know if there are any subtitles outthere ? I speak some german, but not enough...
Yes I purchased it once on VHS. Dunno about subtitles though.

I can surely can come up with the other one.

I think when you study this subject in-depth you will realize SH needs A LOT more than juts prize rules to play like a real WWI sim.

To this reason alone SH was never an option for my own project.
what was the option you'd have preferred then ?
Starting my own project! It's the only real option, imo. You surely have noticed that I run my own project, don't you ?:

http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/heinrich/

The early war hydrophones need to be ****ty and not even all ships have them, include air ships/blimps. and they had to stop the engines to use them..
Yeah and heaved down on a rope. Btw do you have any info on this stuff ?

Are q-ships even possible in SH ?
maybe make the guns visible at very short range only ?How can you achieve that ?

But so many other things would be still missing, a hell of a lot of minefields(especially the early british mines were malfunctioning but overall mines were omnipresent and a big probelm, big navigational challenge ( but there is no realistic navigation in SH ) ) they closed off the north sea between Norway and Scotland with mines...
They closed pretty much all relevant waters. With time, sea storms riped of more and more mines from their anchor chains and they were drifting all around making it hazardous to pass even the "cleared" passages.

As the war progresses there would need to be SOSUS systems on british coasts, remote controlled mine fields,
what are those ?
The mine fields ?

Late into the war britain installed a new mine field that was organized in clusters and hydrophone chains all along the straight of dover barrage, with hydrophones the position of a passing u-boat would be approximated via some sort of triangulation and when it is within one of the mine cluster, this cluster would be blown up.

The mines would be ignited electrically via cables that connected the mine field chunks with the control station on land.

After this system was installed almost the entire flandern flotilla was eradicated this way within a month. :shifty:

Similar heavy losses occured in the med I think after new hydrophone systems were introduce by the allies( overall getting out of and back into the home waters became an art ). The problem became so urgent that the germans saw themself forced to seriously apply quieting to their boats. By the end of the war numerous measures were taken to reduce the noise signature and before each patrol the boats would undergo listening tests to make sure the standards are met.

Quieting became a native design specification for any new design while older boats had to be modified and upgraded with various quieting measures.

Overall the later designs were significant quiter than the old noismakers where you couldn't even use the hydrophones in any meaningfull way without shutting down all engines.

All sort of spy boats, drifter at night listening with hydrophones for you and stuff.
late war then.I think the drifters were not that late into the war. There would be innocently looking sail boats or something that are in reality equiped with hydrophones listening for u-boat propellers at night or something.

Also listening was practiced by simple press the ear on the hull wall below the water line. :D

you sure did your research!Hell yes! I made a dedicated study for several years, initially. I got a lot of rare insights and by now I am specialized in this subject. But there is still so much I need to learn more about. Finding out so much became an obligation to create a game from it. The result of my researches only fostered my decission to develop my own game.

I perhaps spent more time with research and design than with development, lol. Now I have to study even more. I thought coding would be enough, but now I am ending up to study math, physics, fluid dynamics, ship dynamics, maneuvering, nautics, all sorts of propulsion systems and pretty much the entire technology paletty going into a ship and coastile navigational installations and then some :doh:

Holly crap, but the result is a sim with the quality of a study sim and that with WWI u-boats. ( and now even ships ) Care for a little taste?

Researching german u-boats is incredebly tedious, since most documentation was destroyed by the end of the war and a lot of what remained was stolen by the allies. It's much like collating fragments that have survived here and there. I feel like a paleontologist trying to reconstruct long gone dinos from skeletal fragments. :)

There are too many gaps especially when it comes down to interiour documentation. Hence I have to study the underlaying engineering to close as many of them as possible. But I am reaching the point where I can make a decent recreation.

Contraband classification would be changing constantly.
that's gonna be hard to implement in SH4... how do you search ships ???
Does SH even have any goods classification ? I remember there was some basic distinction like ammo, fuel and something else in SHIII ? But what effect did this actually have on the game ?

yeah but still, Die Schalen der Zorns isn't that bad, just looks awful...
Oh yeah, SOF certainly has its merrits that I enjoyed to play. The fact alone that it is WWI makes a difference for me already. SOF was good to wetten the appetite so to speak but I guess it is time to move on now and pull out something real.

who will write the campaign layers ?
Dunno, I am not involved in this mod.

I remember reading that the only defense they (the brits) had for scapa flow was a bunch of enlisted in rowboats with hammers, when spotting a german periscope, they would row over and smash the periscope until it disappeared:har:
Lol, never heared about that but I think the brits cam up with a special ammo to shoot at submerged subs. Didn't worked out of course :D

The germans would actually play pranks on them by dropping buoys in british coastile waters that look like a periscope, just for the thrill :har:

And Deamon, my mod's intended to be an approximation of WWI warfare within the limitations of SH4.
Sure thing, mate, go ahead. I am always curious what you can pull out :up:

However, some crucial features definitely will be included. Q-ships are in, as are mine barrages.I am wondering how you want to make the Q-Ships hide their weapons untill the last moment and then drop the camouflage ? Is there any native support for this kind of features in SHIV ?

I have thought of a way to implement contraband searching for merchants, thanks to the excellent S3ditor v 9.9 - this is being tested at the moment.I am wondering how this is supposed to work out.

For a detailed WWI sub sim we'll have to wait for your mod (which I want now - badly - but that's another story!) Thanks for your comments.:salute:Errm, mod ?

[Sledgehammer427]

there was a Q-ship in sh3, it was done by merely adding guns (small guns, like 3 inchers) inside the cargo boxes. of course, I have no idea how it was done, though.

Deamon, the Narwhal contest thread shows some of Keltos's 3d work, I did the initial 3d editing, then he took and made everything I did better, as usual :D
The Japanese Submarines are his. and I an suffering from a brain fart.

:o
any chance you can let us use your 3d models?
:har:
just kidding...kinda...:haha:

[keltos01]

@Daemon : my project : The IJN Jyunsen B mod (version 3.7 released, 3.9.3 current)

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=137761

keltos

[iambecomelife]

Meant to say game, not mod.

And trust me - I have thought of a way to implement the contraband system; I have begun preliminary tests.

I already made a Q-Ship for SH3. The ship was pretty much an average-looking freighter with the .zon file adjusted to represent it being full of empty drums etc to make it harder to sink. It had a bunch of 4.7" guns concealed behind packing crates and ended up being a nasty surprise for several players. Once you blew up the packing crates you could see the guns.

Making one for SH4 should be no problem - except that I want to add the following things:

-A node to spawn a "panic party" boat

-A short range deck gun so that the Q-ship only fires at close range

-A bomb thrower, which I saw in a WWI photo of a Q-ship & its crew.

I already know how to clone objects so it should be quite easy, except for the "panic party" boat which I have not yet tried.

[iambecomelife]

QUOTE: Late into the war britain installed a new mine field that was organized in clusters and hydrophone chains all along the straight of dover barrage, with hydrophones the position of a passing u-boat would be approximated via some sort of triangulation and when it is within one of the mine cluster, this cluster would be blown up.

The mines would be ignited electrically via cables that connected the mine field chunks with the control station on land.

After this system was installed almost the entire flandern flotilla was eradicated this way within a month.

Hydrophones should be possible in SH4 - just take an existing shore fixture model, delete it, and add sensors. SH3/4 vessels have sensors (including hydrophones) and a "radio" that they use to transmit SOS. In fact I once got sunk after a merchantman I was sinking used its radio to call for a nearby armed trawler, which in turn radioed a destroyer. :D Hence, hydrophone arrays can be tweaked to "launch" mine(s) or summon escorts, which will simulate hydrophone listeners contacting the Admiralty.

Same with mine clusters - mod the existing mines' 3d model, damage effect, & zon file to represent more than one mine going off.

[Sledgehammer427]

IABL, I would like to officially join you as part of this mod team. After reading the preview .doc you sent me via PM, I would like to throw as much in as I can (since I am also working on the Surface Warfare Mod, and the Narwhal.)

:D:yeah:

[iambecomelife]

IABL, I would like to officially join you as part of this mod team. After reading the preview .doc you sent me via PM, I would like to throw as much in as I can (since I am also working on the Surface Warfare Mod, and the Narwhal.)

:D:yeah:

Thanks! Go right ahead & step up to the plate!

Now that work has begun on both U-cruisers and small coastal boats we really need the medium sized boats I listed - they were the backbone of the war effort, even though players will probably crave the huge U-cruisers.

Also need help with some .zon issues to make the contraband system work properly - this is very important so that merchants can be stopped with a shot across the bow.

In addition I really need info on flotilla organization, which seems to be sorely lacking in most of my sources. I want players to have the right sub at the right time in the right geographic location.

If you are willing to work on modeling surface ships some help with battleships, battlecruisers, & predreadnoughts would be welcome - please try to do ships that I have not yet done (unless you are confident you'll improve the model dramatically). Merchant vessels are not a priority because I have a lot of experience modeling them.


I will send more details to you via PM.

[Deamon]

any chance you can let us use your 3d models?
:har:
just kidding...kinda...:haha::haha:
Good one mate :up:

I will watch what you guys are doing and eventually throw in some of my stuff. Actually I gave my U-Deutschland to USS Sea Tiger. There were also plans to transfer some of my british sub models but he did not reply to my mails anymore.

Are there any plans to consolidate the work of USS Sea Tiger with this mod here ? Would be a logical step, imo.

@Daemon : my project : The IJN Jyunsen B mod (version 3.7 released, 3.9.3 current)

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=137761

keltos
Ok I checked your thread and that on the Narwahl. I am impressed!!!

Boy you came around in the mean while! You seem to be really pationate and seem to have a long breath. A rare quality! I had a good time to check out the japanese u-boat monstrosities and a fair job on the Narwhal :up:

Can I maybe have an autograph, Sir ? :D Hitman must be loving you now.

I wasn't quite counting but how many boats have you made so far ?

For how long are you modeling already and how long will your projects still go on ?

BTW: The I-1 is actually a direct 1:1 copy of SMU-139 ;)

And trust me - I have thought of a way to implement the contraband system; I have begun preliminary tests.
Ok, I will see then.

I already made a Q-Ship for SH3. The ship was pretty much an average-looking freighter with the .zon file adjusted to represent it being full of empty drums etc to make it harder to sink. It had a bunch of 4.7" guns concealed behind packing crates and ended up being a nasty surprise for several players. Once you blew up the packing crates you could see the guns.

Making one for SH4 should be no problem - except that I want to add the following things:

-A node to spawn a "panic party" boat

-A short range deck gun so that the Q-ship only fires at close range

-A bomb thrower, which I saw in a WWI photo of a Q-ship & its crew.

I already know how to clone objects so it should be quite easy, except for the "panic party" boat which I have not yet tried.Sounds interesting. But you said that on that one Q-Ship you had to blow up the crates to see the guns, that basically means they will not be droped by the ship itself and the guns would fire at you without you actually seeing them right ?


Hydrophones should be possible in SH4 - just take an existing shore fixture model, delete it, and add sensors. SH3/4 vessels have sensors (including hydrophones) and a "radio" that they use to transmit SOS. In fact I once got sunk after a merchantman I was sinking used its radio to call for a nearby armed trawler, which in turn radioed a destroyer. :D Hence, hydrophone arrays can be tweaked to "launch" mine(s) or summon escorts, which will simulate hydrophone listeners contacting the Admiralty.

Same with mine clusters - mod the existing mines' 3d model, damage effect, & zon file to represent more than one mine going off.
I guess I told you too much then already, lol. :D

And while you are at it you can also add the MAD cables in the german bays.

It is amazing what was already available in WWI. SOSUS would be way cool actually cause then you don't even know why the DD's are all over you suddenly. However I don't know where all they were installed and when. They were surely not as good as the cold war SOSUS system but detonations can be surely picked up from far away( when you torpedo a ship ).

[Deamon]

Now that work has begun on both U-cruisers and small coastal boats we really need the medium sized boats I listed - they were the backbone of the war effort, even though players will probably crave the huge U-cruisers.
What cruisers ? :hmm2:

In addition I really need info on flotilla organization, which seems to be sorely lacking in most of my sources. I want players to have the right sub at the right time in the right geographic location.If you want the right sub at the right time you can already forget about the Project 50. Right after its keel laying the war was over. Then it was immediately scuttled and the plans destroyed.

If you intend to include U-139 and want to be historically correct then the player will get to make only one patrol with it and the war is over!

When you include the armed U-Deutschland then things look good, then the player have more then 1,5 years of action with it.

So the main action are the fleet and coastile boats.

I will check out if I can come up with info on the flotillas. What theatres are you intending to cover ?

[keltos01]

IABL, I would like to officially join you as part of this mod team. After reading the preview .doc you sent me via PM, I would like to throw as much in as I can (since I am also working on the Surface Warfare Mod, and the Narwhal.)

:D:yeah:

you beat me to it ! but realistically I also have the Narwhal ;) on my plate and the IJN campaign (with quite a few subs there...) but yes I wanna take part in this mod but tell me : I saw Daemon's site and it seems he beat us to it by a few years :D :

http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/heinrich/

so I think the best way would be a team effort, but who on the Team would know how to make the campaign layers ??? On our IJN Mod team it's Peabody's job ;) so maybe if we ask him nicely, when the IJN campaign beta is released, maybe he would help us ?

I have always been interrested in WWI, one of my goals this year is to go scuba diving on one of the many WWI uboot wrecks that litter our coast.

Keltos

[Sledgehammer427]

I got two of the larger U-boot bases in WWI, Zeebrugge and Ostende. getting an eBook about them as we speak, about the raids that is.

EDIT: Keltos, you are so lucky that you can go and do things like that. I'm stuck in the Midwest taking college courses that are barely paid for, and although I have a love for the sea, I only get about 3-9 days a year to truly swim in the atlantic. No boating, just crabbing :D

[keltos01]

quote=Deamon

Good one mate :up:

Ok I checked your thread and that on the Narwahl. I am impressed!!!
thanks ;)
Boy you came around in the mean while! You seem to be really pationate and seem to have a long breath. A rare quality! I had a good time to check out the japanese u-boat monstrosities and a fair job on the Narwhal :up:
There are still some stuff to come, like the Sen Taka (I-201) but as they have a really short range they won't be included in the IJN camapign beta 1.

I tried, months ago, to catch a task force out of San Diego with the Jyunsen B... it's waaay harder to catch a carrier task force when you've spotted them as it is a merchantman... they are fast !
Can I maybe have an autograph, Sir ? :D
:har:

Hitman must be loving you now.
:oops::haha:


I wasn't quite counting but how many boats have you made so far ?
pfew ! dunno, a few, but f.i. the Class T british sub has Ju_88's 3D model, the rest I did, the Kaichu is Mikhayl's typ 2, otherwise I'd say Ko Hyoteki, Kaidai 3B, Kaidai 4, Jyunsen B, Type C2, Type AM, Sen Toku (model is stock), Narwhal, maybe I forgot one or the other, there was also an early IJN sub with an ugly tower etc...

For how long are you modeling already and how long will your projects still go on ?
I started when I joined in Feb 2008 and have been working on a few mods other than subs and the IJN camapign like the IJN torpedoes etc...

I haven't really played since I started modding ;) but I love it, to get those subs to move and breathe, I just love it ! I will continue till the IJN add on is finished (but there are always improvements to be made) and the Narwhal, and maybe the WWI mod. I don't really know how long, I'm not bored with it yet, more like addicted really !
BTW: The I-1 is actually a direct 1:1 copy of SMU-139 ;)
I knew that ;) as the Narwhal is a copy of the U-Cruisers !

Ok, I will see then.
good.

I guess I told you too much then already, lol. :D
:har:
And while you are at it you can also add the MAD cables in the german bays.
:o

It is amazing what was already available in WWI.
I agree !

keltos

[keltos01]

I got two of the larger U-boot bases in WWI, Zeebrugge and Ostende. getting an eBook about them as we speak, about the raids that is.

EDIT: Keltos, you are so lucky that you can go and do things like that. I'm stuck in the Midwest taking college courses that are barely paid for, and although I have a love for the sea, I only get about 3-9 days a year to truly swim in the atlantic. No boating, just crabbing :D

I might be able to squeeze some info out of the War Museum in Brussels and the Zeebrugge Museum too.

@Sledgehammer427 : well, I'm an archarologist and a diver, do the math ;) but yeah, it's cool !

[iambecomelife]

What cruisers ? :hmm2:

If you want the right sub at the right time you can already forget about the Project 50. Right after its keel laying the war was over. Then it was immediately scuttled and the plans destroyed.

If you intend to include U-139 and want to be historically correct then the player will get to make only one patrol with it and the war is over!

When you include the armed U-Deutschland then things look good, then the player have more then 1,5 years of action with it.

So the main action are the fleet and coastile boats.

I will check out if I can come up with info on the flotillas. What theatres are you intending to cover ?


For now I am doing just the North Sea, Channel, Eastern Atlantic, and the Arctic. I didn't want to throw in operations off the US Coast and in the Med just yet.

[Sledgehammer427]

I'm having a problem with the U-cruiser.
I have the hull practically complete, but I can't cut out the torpedo tubes.
Keltos, If I send you this sub can you finish it? the modelling, I mean, I can work up the textures and fun stuff like that later

[GerritJ9]

Re U-Boot interiors: the very first U-Boot, U-1, is preserved at the Deutsches Museum in Munich. Sections of the hull have been cut away so the interior can be viewed and I have a photo in a book somewhere taken at the museum which I could scan (once I find it that is). Otherwise perhaps some of our German forum members have been to the museum and have photos available. They could be used for detailing the interiors of the earliest U-Boote such as U-9.

[Highbury]

Now that work has begun on both U-cruisers and small coastal boats we really need the medium sized boats I listed - they were the backbone of the war effort, even though players will probably crave the huge U-cruisers.

I think you forget the old SHIII thread about people who loved and only used Type IIs. In SH4 there is a similar following for the Sugar Boats. I am sure the coastal and medium sized boats will be very much appreciated by alot of people. (Like me!!)

The post above mine did make me wonder however.. what are you guys planning for interiors?

[iambecomelife]

I think you forget the old SHIII thread about people who loved and only used Type IIs. In SH4 there is a similar following for the Sugar Boats. I am sure the coastal and medium sized boats will be very much appreciated by alot of people. (Like me!!)

The post above mine did make me wonder however.. what are you guys planning for interiors?

My mod proposal indicates that SH4 interiors with appropriate modifications (no radar, hydrophones, etc) will be used, unless someone volunteers do do detailed interior work.

Historically correct uniforms & decor will be provided.

[keltos01]

I'm having a problem with the U-cruiser.
I have the hull practically complete, but I can't cut out the torpedo tubes.
Keltos, If I send you this sub can you finish it? the modelling, I mean, I can work up the textures and fun stuff like that later


yeah ... send it over ;) !

btw: easier to cut out with solids than meshes but I can do both.

keltos

[keltos01]

any news ?

keltos

[Hitman]

My mod proposal indicates that SH4 interiors with appropriate modifications (no radar, hydrophones, etc) will be used, unless someone volunteers do do detailed interior work.

I have seen some pictures of interiors of WW1 submarines, and the Type II is quite similar -very cramped and with the "oldest" look of all. You should be able to create a good generic interior for all U-Boats using just the Type II :yep:

[iambecomelife]

any news ?

keltos


Nothing screenshot-worthy - however, a lot of vital work is being done, particularly in the area of merchant ship design.

[iambecomelife]

I have seen some pictures of interiors of WW1 submarines, and the Type II is quite similar -very cramped and with the "oldest" look of all. You should be able to create a good generic interior for all U-Boats using just the Type II :yep:

Thanks - that sounds like a good idea. I would like to try modeling additional areas like crews' quarters & torpedo rooms but it's best to keep the interior work to a minimum for now.

[keltos01]

I have seen some pictures of interiors of WW1 submarines, and the Type II is quite similar -very cramped and with the "oldest" look of all. You should be able to create a good generic interior for all U-Boats using just the Type II :yep:

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/4337/morgenrotcover3.jpg (http://img403.imageshack.us/i/morgenrotcover3.jpg/)


http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1130/morgenrotcover2.jpg (http://img403.imageshack.us/i/morgenrotcover2.jpg/)


I can post pictures of "Morgenrot", a 1933 movie filmed in a WWI Uboot, kindo a good early Das Boot.

then you'll see the inside.

keltos

[iambecomelife]

Do you know how to convert the Type II interior so that it works in SH4?

[Sledgehammer427]

you could always ask mikhayl if you can use his :D

[iambecomelife]

you could always ask mikhayl if you can use his :D


That's great news - someone else has don all that hard work for me.:rotfl:

Some WIP pix of an "M" class British destroyer next to a small civilian cargo ship. Note how the cargo ship has a less streamlined hull form and a deeper draft.

I want to add more details to the merchant models like real crews' quarters, 3d cargo holds, boilers, &c. It's all a matter of how much detail the game can handle.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/iambecomelife/Col1.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/iambecomelife/col2.jpg

[Sledgehammer427]

Sweet, time to put up a couple of my own :D

The (basically) done U-cruiser
http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo351/Fastrat91/Sledgehammer54.jpg
Tower Close-up
http://i391.photobucket.com/albums/oo351/Fastrat91/Sledgehammer55.jpg

now to send it over to keltos to cut out the tubes!

[iambecomelife]

Nice progress. Maybe we can get away with using the Type IX interior for it, since it's so much larger than the other boats.

[keltos01]

Morgenrot :

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/290/morgenrotcover4.jpg (http://img5.imageshack.us/i/morgenrotcover4.jpg/)



I had Mikhayl's go ahead to use his Typ II for the IJN campaign, so I hope he'll donate it to the WWI mod too, with due credits of course.

I can post other pictures from Morgenrot tonight, as it was filmed inside a german WWI Uboot, I think it's a must have.

@SH427 : send it over !

keltos

[Sledgehammer427]

Sent you that model kelt:yeah:

[Hitman]

Gun from a WW1 U-Boat:

http://www.strandingsmuseum.dk/udstillingsfoto/small/100_0554-3.jpg

German WW1 U-Boat periscope (Recovered from a wreck):

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/1245/ww1germanperiscopeub107.jpg

WW1 U-Boat chronometer:

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/2631/d50a1.jpg

I knew I had them laying around somewhere :DL:

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/3386/harryfields02.jpg


http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1301/royfrank02.jpg

[keltos01]

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7553/300pxnh59632ussd3underw.jpg (http://img262.imageshack.us/i/300pxnh59632ussd3underw.jpg/)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_D-3_%28SS-19%29

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/4052/www107k.gif (http://img524.imageshack.us/i/www107k.gif/)

USS L-1 and L-3 are tied up alongside Bushnell

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6880/ww105k.gif (http://img441.imageshack.us/i/ww105k.gif/)


USS L-2 (SS-41) at Bantry Bay

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/448/britishisle.gif (http://img44.imageshack.us/i/britishisle.gif/)



The first L-class boats arrived at Berehaven, Ireland in late January 1918. Under the tutelage of the Royal Navy, they were soon conducting anti-submarine patrols south and east of Bantry Bay and served in that capacity until the end of the war in November. Here, USS L-1 and L-3 are tied up alongside Bushnell.

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/cno/n87/usw/issue_22/ww1.htm

what about US subs ?

keltos

[keltos01]

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6827/plansu1.jpg (http://img35.imageshack.us/i/plansu1.jpg/)
http://www.heiszwolf.com/subs/plans/plans.html
U-1 blueprint

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9493/h84383.jpg (http://img16.imageshack.us/i/h84383.jpg/)


http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/6523/h84382.jpg (http://img16.imageshack.us/i/h84382.jpg/)

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-f/ss22.htm
US sub blueprint

not only WWI :


Re: German WW1 Steam-U-Cruiser
Post by: moin1900 on March 21, 2008, 03:29:47 pm

Hi everybody

The K-Class is also Steam-Powered, so......

By the Way here are some good Websites, i have found. :)

Some Plans for various Subs
http://www.heiszwolf.com/subs/plans/plans.html
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-f/ss22.htm
About british Submarines WW1
http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/british_submarines_in_world_war_.htm
Plan of the J Class Submarine
http://www.michaelmcfadyenscuba.info/viewpage.php?page_id=457
Submarine Silhouettes
http://www.godfreydykes.info/Bits%20and%20Pieces%20Volume%20III.htm

Submarines of WW1
http://adjunct.diodon349.com/photopoint/0035/aindex.htm
http://adjunct.diodon349.com/photopoint/0036/aindex.htm

Some Pictures of German Military in WW1
http://thefirstworldwar.blogspot.com/2007/10/german-military.html
Picture of a german Submarine
http://www.dhm.de/lemo/objekte/pict/pk94-214/index.jpg http://news.webshots.com/photo/2219585500098837763anOSfd
australias first submarine
http://www.ae1submarine.com/
a good page about german submarines in ww1
http://uboat.net/history/wwi/
http://www.worldwar1.com/arm012.htm here is also a good page
http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/u-boats.htm here are also some Pictures
German Submarine List
http://www.u-boot-net.de/include.php?path=content/content.php&contentid=22

Many greetings
moin1900


Now that is what I mean by blueprint !!!


Keltos

[keltos01]

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/8291/britishsubs.jpg (http://img9.imageshack.us/i/britishsubs.jpg/)


British WWI subs


don't they look a lot like the S18 boats ?

well they sure as hell are ugly !!!
keltos

[keltos01]

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/403/u139.jpg

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/8223/ucruiser.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/i/ucruiser.jpg/)

SH427 U-Cruiser

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/8223/ucruiser.jpg (http://img25.imageshack.us/i/ucruiser.jpg/)

I changed a bit the guns decks so as to look more like the RL picture here above.

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/8223/ucruiser.jpg (http://img17.imageshack.us/i/ucruiser.jpg/)

moved the tower aft : the gap between the fore gun platform and the tower is larger to the front of it than to the back : you had it backwards SH427 ;)


doing the cutting

keltos

[Sledgehammer427]

ahhh, I was close though, gotta give me that

but as for the blues, thats a HUGE help, I'm going to get started on the U-1 and those prints are perfect!

[keltos01]

ahhh, I was close though, gotta give me that yeah..

but as for the blues, thats a HUGE help, I'm going to get started on the U-1 and those prints are perfect!

:D:D:D glad you like what I found ! real blueprints for once :)

keltos

[iambecomelife]

WIP pictures of the SS "Beechwood", a small merchant owned by Fenwick & used mainly to transport coal. Note that unlike the stock SH3/SH4 merchantmen the name and homeport are visible on the hull. It's just one of many merchant ships that will ply the coastal waters of Britain & the North Sea. :D There is a destroyer visible for size comparison purposes. I think I will use SH3 as a "testbed" for creating the new merchant ships and then port them over to SH4.

Next I will need to create a variety of human figures to populate the ships - merchant sailors, navy recruits, doctors, nurses, civilian passengers, officers, & more...

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/iambecomelife/Beechwood1.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/iambecomelife/Beechwood2.jpg

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d54/iambecomelife/Beechwood3.jpg

[keltos01]

waow ! beautiful :)

keltos

[Deamon]

I'm going to get started on the U-1 and those prints are perfect!
I am wondering what scenario are you intend to use U 1 for ?

[Sledgehammer427]

Just to have, I guess :D

[Deamon]

You are surely aware that U 1 saw no action at all and was used only for training purposes ?

You can enjoy yourself of course but wouldn't it be better to focus the efforts on boats that were actually used throughout the war ? :hmm2:

[Sledgehammer427]

well, It wouldn't be hard to add on a "Training Flotilla"
like in TMO
that uses SOLELY the U-1, where you can learn to push the boat and discover diving limits, so on, and let's not forget, we could also make it a tutorial where you can learn some of the new Features IABL intends on putting in to the mod

[Deamon]

This concept sounds familiar to me, lol. You beat me to it, ehh ? :D

[keltos01]

You are surely aware that U 1 saw no action at all and was used only for training purposes ?

You can enjoy yourself of course but wouldn't it be better to focus the efforts on boats that were actually used throughout the war ? :hmm2:

Yes but for this one we have detailed blueprints... Do you have any of the other classes ? UB or UC ?

thanks

keltos

[GerritJ9]

Keltos, I can scan the relevant pages from "Geschichte des deutschen UBootbaus" for you if you are interested.

[iambecomelife]

Keltos, I can scan the relevant pages from "Geschichte des deutschen UBootbaus" for you if you are interested.

Thanks very much - I think you offered to do this before? Unfortunately someone bought the copy of Geschichte des deutschen UBootbaus that I was going to get. :wah:

[iambecomelife]

Guys, there is going to be an official thread posted very soon. Please post all updated pictures of models & work, comments, etc on the new thread from now on.

[Admiral Von Gerlach]

will post on the ofifcial thread

Salute

[Trool323]

the WW1 mod will be awesome guys..:yeah:

[dylansh3]

Can someone make a WWI Campaign in the North Sea, Channel and Baltic maybe ?

then we can work on the submarines, both allied and Austro-germans.

Keltos

can you please fix the link? thx

[Bleiente]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=156161 :up: