[REQ] - Habbakuk MOD

[Nameless Bob]

I would like to humbly submit to the talented members of this community the idea of modding the largest ship of WWII that almost was.A 2,000,000 ton 2000+ foot long carrier made of ice with a 50 foot thick hull.Not to mention your own air force, an insane amount of deck and flack guns,but also a weird ice cannon system that would make Mr. Freeze blush.The view from the bridge alone would make the mod worth it.Here's the link for the write up on it.



http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2007/12/giant-iceberg-aircraft-carrier.html

This thing would be the Terror of the North Atlantic.Thank you community for your time and great mods.:rock:

[Nameless Bob]

I thought I would include this link to show the test results of this substance to show that this substance would act according to design.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ3pKetZSZk&feature=channel

I hope this video shows the possibilities of this design and what this ship could have done if it had been constructed.:rock:

[Nameless Bob]

here is more information
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa_ykzexUOE
regarding the project.

[Rockin Robbins]

Well, a magnetic torpedo might have a problem. Still, from the shotgun test, an impact torpedo hit would have been devastating. And what kind of repair procedures do you use on ice?

Would have been a great sub magnet though!:har:

[vanjast]

The axis would have attached a large spearfishing hook and towrope, to a torp. containing no explosives.
Then the sub(s) would have towed the ship to the equator, effectively sinking it..

Was an ice-cream machine built into the plans..
:D

[Rockin Robbins]

Were they going to make the planes out of ice too?

[Nameless Bob]

Q. Well, a magnetic torpedo might have a problem. Still, from the shotgun test, an impact torpedo hit would have been devastating. And what kind of repair procedures do you use on ice?

A. Well a torpedo would have been bad but let's remember the original design for 50 foot thick hull top to bottom and you can bet they had plans to reinforce the waterline for torpedo attacks.The British navy test showed that a torpedo would only penetrate 3'.40' was considered to be torpedo proof.You would have to make multiple shots in the same hole to even begin to penetrate the hull and as you said magnetic detonators are useless(not that they weren't allready).Imagine trying to sink the yamato that way(impact pistol at waterline),It would take everything you have and it still might not rollover or go down.Let's think about steel for a moment.It has no flotation and is very heavy.Ice is heavy but has flotation especially when mixed as pykrete.Now for a BB to have a equal hull thickness and strength would make design impossible due to weight and lack of flotation.If you could build a ship with a hull like that and did manage to get it to float god help you if you start to take on water because it wouldn't take much to drag you down.Secondly being made of ice and having your own redundant refrigeration system throughout the ship would make the ship essentially self repairable using seawater and more sawdust.You are floating in your building materials.They specifically designed the refrigation units for this to be done anywhere on the ship for repair.The idea of using the ice system as a weapon was a sort of weird side benefit.With a metal hull if you get damaged enough you can only patch it up and limp home for repairs.Nobody is going to fix it for you at sea and you can't grow more steel.As far as the u-boats or the german aircraft go you must remember that this was no ordinary ship.It would have carried a large amount of fighters, long range bombers, torpedo bombers as well as alot of flak guns.It would have also carried escorts as well(elco or bigger) so it would have had it's own ASW force as well as a large fighter screen.As far as the melting goes as long as the referiagation works no problem in the north atlantic.The test boat they built in the article lasted all summer without melting.When they abandon the project they left the boat where it was with the refrigation removed and it took 3 years for it to finally melt completely and sink.That's 1095 days.If anything I would think they would have problems with ice build up on the hull.You definitely would not be taking this thing on a cruise to the bahamas of course,the trick was for the referiagation to be able to outrun the amount of heat the hull absorbs so that the ice stays frozen.That sample of pykrete they showed in the video was only about 1' square and it didn't shatter until shot with a doublebarrel shotgun with slugs.And if I remember in the video the sample of pykrete when shot with a high powered rifle didn't let the bullet penetrate.He tried to dig it out and couldn't so they blasted it apart with slugs.Now picture that with a 50' x 50' chunk.You'll need a bigger gun.I also would think they have the mother of all ice cream makers on board and lots of coats because I'm guessing most of the ship is not heated.:rotfl:

[Nameless Bob]

Thought I would put this link up.More info about construction/performance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habakkuk

good info here too

http://www.uhaul.com/supergraphics/enhanced.aspx?site_id=169&sort_order=3



The short version:D


Project Habakkuk (actually misspelled as Habbakuk — see below) was a plan by the British in World War II to construct an aircraft carrier out of ice, for use against German U-boats in the mid-Atlantic, which was out of range of land-based planes.

The Habakkuk, as proposed to Winston Churchill by Lord Mountbatten and Geoffrey Pyke in December 1942, was to be approximately 2,000 feet long and 300 feet wide, with a deck-to-keel depth of 200 feet, and walls 50 feet thick.[1] It was to have a draft of 150 feet, and a displacement of 2,000,000 tons or more, to be constructed in Canada from 280,000 blocks of ice.[2] (For comparison, an Essex-class carrier displaced 35,000 tons.) The building material was later changed to a mixture of ice and wood pulp known as Pykrete after Pyke, who proposed the Habakkuk project — the material was invented by others. The ship's deep draft would have kept it out of most harbours. Inside the vessel a refrigeration plant would maintain the structure against melting. The ship would have extremely limited manoeuvrability, but was expected to be capable of up to 10 knots (18 km/h) using 26 electric drive motors mounted in separate external nacelles (normal, internal ship engines would have generated too much heat for an ice craft). Its armaments would have included 40 dual-barrelled 4.5" DP (dual-purpose) turrets and numerous light anti-aircraft guns, and it would have housed an airstrip and up to 150 twin-engined bombers or fighters.


The Habakkuk was imagined to be virtually unsinkable as it would have effectively been a streamlined iceberg or floating island kept afloat by the buoyancy of its construction materials, and to be highly resilient to damage by virtue of its sheer bulk.

At the Quebec Conference of 1943 Lord Mountbatten brought a block of Pykrete along to demonstrate its potential to the bevy of admirals and generals who had come along with Winston Churchill and Franklin D. Roosevelt. Mountbatten entered the project meeting with two blocks and placed them on the ground. One was a normal ice block and the other was Pykrete. He then drew his service pistol and shot at the first block. It shattered and splintered. Next, he fired at the Pykrete to give an idea of the resistance of that kind of ice to projectiles. The bullet ricochetted off the block, grazing the trouser leg of Admiral Ernest King and ending up in the wall. The Admiral was impressed by Mountbatten's unorthodox demonstration.

It was projected to take $70 million and 8,000 people working for eight months to construct it,[citation needed] an expenditure which the British were unwilling to make at the time on such an experimental craft. Experiments on ice and pykrete as construction materials were carried out at Lake Louise, Alberta, and a small prototype was constructed at Patricia Lake, Alberta, measuring only 60 feet by 30 feet (18 by 9 m), weighing in at 1,000 tons and kept frozen by a 10 horsepower motor.[2] Work on the project continued through 1943, but major doubts as to feasibility had surfaced by October, and abandonment was recommended in January 1944, by when the Atlantic Gap had already been closed by long-ranged land-based aircraft. The use of ice had actually been falling out of favour before that, with other ideas for "floating islands" being considered, such as welding Liberty Ships or Landing craft together (Project TENTACLE).[3] The ice Habakkuk itself was never begun.

[gimpy117]

never built....:shifty:

[Task Force]

This idea in realife would have not worked... especialy in the PTO... It would have melted like an iceberg.:yep:

[Sledgehammer427]

it would have taken too long, especially since by the time it was proposed WWII was almost halfway over

[ivank]

still would be amazing!

[Armistead]

I know it took about two years to make a small version that actually worked. Great idea, get hit with a torp, just add watr and it would freeze the gap.

Also believed they mixed ice with sawdust, the blocks were actually harder than concrete.

[Nameless Bob]

"I know it took about two years to make a small version that actually worked. Great idea, get hit with a torp, just add watr and it would freeze the gap.

Also believed they mixed ice with sawdust, the blocks were actually harder than concrete."

Your right,it was harder than concrete when mixed right.The guy they used to build the small one was a bunker construction specialist.And the british navy tests showed a torpedo hit would only penetrate 3 feet.They considered 40' to be enough to make it torpedo proof.50 was more than enough.Good luck trying to get through that.The main problem it had that I see was power enough to run the electric engines and the refrigeration units as well as ship power for a boat with a top speed of 10 knots and a range I think of 11,000 nm or so.Probably a major gas hog.By the time they really started to get behind testing small versions to make the big one it was way too late for it to be worth it.They probably couldn't get one in the water until mid 44 at least and that would be really rushing it.By the time testing was done it was too much money,materials, and man hours for a war that was coming to a quick end.SledgeHammer427 is more than right.By the time they could have the boat in the water by any real timetable the only country left still left fighting would have been japan.I always liked to think of the boat as a semi-historical what if, kinda like the spruce goose.It would have worked but no need.



For me the fascination wasn't just the size of the boat but the project itself.This was the equivalent of a canadian/british manhattan project in scope and cost.I mean, look at the amount of men and man hours for construction.Then there is the amount of material being moved around for construction.Could you imagine what the work site would look like.And your trying to keep the thing secret the whole time!And then if you actually got one in the water?Can you imagine being the first u-boat commander or pilot having to radio that contact report in to the BDU?I can only imagine the looks the germans would be giving each other knowing that thing just left canada and is on it's way to them.Talk about shock and awe.Can you imagine which one gets to tell Hitler and what he would say?That would have been an akaward moment to say the least.Watching them loose sleep wondering how many more will there be and their engineers trying to figure out what to do about a mega carrier who's construction makes a u-boat essentially worthless against it.?The psychological effect and propaganda coup(newspaper pictures/headlines) would almost have made the cost and time worth it.:up:



"Ice, it was pointed out, was plentiful and didn't sink. Let us build large unsinkable aircraft carriers of ice and thus provide air cover for an attack on a remote and unprotected part of France. Steel limits the size of our carriers to tens of thousands of tons; with ice we can throw off our shackles and build carriers of millions of tons each."

[0167]

...ice cannon system...
and how exactly do you plan to mod this so called "ice kanon"? would it just turn my type VIIA uboat into a floating freezer? and btw, it's called "pycrete" if anyone hadn't already said it :oops:.

[Nameless Bob]

The ice cannon was a idea somebody had about using the spray system for hull repair to try and freeze other ships.I don't think it would have had much range at all and most likely would be next to useless but maybe they knew something they weren't telling, who knows.I've never seen any drawing for it or specs and think it was just an idea and no more.They originally thought you could use it freeze the top of an enemy ship by spraying it and hopefully jamming turret rings and freezing hatches shut ultimately causing the ship to capsize from top weight build up.And I'm thinking lightly armed ones at that.Let's face it, if you tried that thing on with a BB it would have blown you out of your shoes before you got one shot off with that thing.It seemed to me to be a complete waste of time because the whole point was using massive air cover to ensure no surface ship or plane could get close enough.Only u-boats could sneak up on it.Also the design called for 40 twin barreled cannons on it.I think the conventional guns would have been the better choice and they had much better range.I think you would have a better chance of getting the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter to work than the ice cannon.And you may be right on the spelling.I have seen it spelled 2 or 3 different ways and I think there are a few different ways the ships name was spelled that I've seen too.But I think the original name was pykrete because it was named after the inventor and the man we have to thank for this madness Geoffrey Pyke.Then again, I may be wrong.

[Webster]

Well, a magnetic torpedo might have a problem. Still, from the shotgun test, an impact torpedo hit would have been devastating. And what kind of repair procedures do you use on ice?

Would have been a great sub magnet though!:har:


i actually saw it on the history channel the other day.

funny thing is, it could still be a what-if idea today except engine heat and jet exhaust would melt the flight decks and hangers.

[Nameless Bob]

i actually saw it on the history channel the other day.

funny thing is, it could still be a what-if idea today except engine heat and jet exhaust would melt the flight decks and hangers.

Cool.Haven't seen the whole special myself yet.They could definitely build it today and I sometimes wonder if the reason you can't seem to find much technical data on the boat is for that reason.I've never been able to find out much specs on things like damage repair procedure plans,the ice gun designs,how the refrigeration system was setup,electrical power demands/wiring,ect. As far As heat goes With today's modern materials they definitely could find a way to deal with jet exhaust.The original plan called for surface coatings(tar and other materials I think) to be on the boat but mostly on top to keep sunlight off,to insulate the ice,and for traction for the planes and crew.I you noticed in the film of the small versions construction there were men painting black material on the outside ice in areas with brushes.You would not want planes landing on bare ice in pitching seas in the dark with cross winds.Also I think the plan was to mount all the diesel engines above decks in a raised area to insulate it from the ship as well as running the waste heat side of the refrigeration to crew compartments above decks.Since everything below decks had to stay cold the ship had the electric motors outside the hull and motors above.Like a large scale fleet boat kind of.It would have been hard on the crew.Half the time in a warm bunk and half the time in a meat locker.:woot:

[Letum]

it would have taken too long, especially since by the time it was proposed WWII was almost halfway over


Forget taking too long!
It would require such vast amounts of wood pulp that there would be
almost no timber or papers available for the rest of the war effort.

That said, this mod would be a good laugh.

[Nameless Bob]

Forget taking too long!
It would require such vast amounts of wood pulp that there would be
almost no timber or papers available for the rest of the war effort.

That said, this mod would be a good laugh. I give you an even bigger laugh.They used a pacifist menonite group to build the small prototype of a 2,000,000 ton frozen floating death star, and they didn't know what it was for the whole time.:har:

You can't make this stuff up.

[gimpy117]

I give you an even bigger laugh.They used a pacifist menonite group to build the small prototype of a 2,000,000 ton frozen floating death star, and they didn't know what it was for the whole time.:har:

You can't make this stuff up.

they were prolly like

"what are we building? this isn't a weapon is it?....nahhhh...I mean who's crazy enough to build a warship out of ice anyways"

[Nameless Bob]

they were prolly like

"what are we building? this isn't a weapon is it?....nahhhh...I mean who's crazy enough to build a warship out of ice anyways"


You know it.They probably also didn't mention that the inventor came up with the idea while "resting" in a Mental Institution for "stress" after escaping a Nazi death camp.Or that he demonstrated the idea by shooting at ice and wounding a guy.I swear they should make a movie about this guys life using monte python.The thing that really gets me though is that you have mods for this game including submersible big battle ships,a shark with mini guns and a sam site launcher,and a 688i attack sub.... But my idea is the crazy one to try and put in the game even though Habbakuk is the one that a navy in real life was actually going to build.It's like an endless sea of comedy.:har:

[ETR3(SS)]

And here I thought all along this was some weird ship that the devs made up for the Warship Gunner series.

[Nameless Bob]

And here I thought all along this was some weird ship that the devs made up for the Warship Gunner series.

Never played warship gunner,but unfortunately for the world the weirdness was real.I would have done it already myself for this but I don't have the skills.Still on the learning curve and this isn't exactly a beginners project.Right now I would be lucky to pull off a sucessful sampan mod.I did always love the idea though.It just shows how weird and desperate people get when they are trying to kill each other.It's a scary war out there.:salute:

[ETR3(SS)]

Yeah I know, seen some of this countries weird but true designs...:shifty:

[Nameless Bob]

Yeah I know, seen some of this countries weird but true designs...:shifty:


I can only imagine.Remember when the CIA had the idea of putting cameras on cats.God only knows how much that research cost.:har:But floating ice ships,now that's crazy.