Are there any free modelling applications?

[roadhogg]

I know some of the ship modellers use professional modelling packages that cost lots of money to make ships for SH3, but does anyone know of any freeware programs that would enable me to view models in 3D?

I need something that will allow me to import model files to the application, (that may have been built in a different file format), and see inside the model, to view the zone and sphere co-ordinates in 3D.

The idea behind it is to be able to modify the behaviour of some of the ships, to make them more realistic ( i'm still trying to get the A/C's to behave better when under attack from gunfire).
I don't want to alter the model, just the settings for the zones and spheres, a bit of tweaking really.

I've tried misfit and blender, but can't import SH3 model files to them, and don't have days to spend learning my way round software packages just to view a model in 3D and make some relatively minor alterations.
Also, when it comes to things like flotability, critical flotation, critical chance etc, as in the zones.cfg file, how do i tell which is a stronger or weaker setting for the particular zone i'm trying to tweak?
And when an armour value is -1, where can i find out what that armour level is?

There seems to be very scant information available on what these values represent, so, like most people i have no idea how a ship model's behaviour is defined.
Obviously the zones and spheres have 3D co-ordinates, zones being boxes of various shapes defining areas like engine rooms,ammo/fuel bunkers etc, and spheres being circles dependent on their radius controlling effects such as fire and smoke.

Hence the need to see them in 3D, and understand the armour levels, flotability etc. values to assign to them in order to achieve the desired effect.
It's a shame there's not some kind of guide available to explain what these values mean, or if there is, can someone please point me to it?
Any info welcome :)
X = Width, Y = Height, Z = length. ( Thanks to VonDos ) for that one :03:

[Sledgehammer427]

Use S3d. select the 3d model in the .dat, click on export and you can open up the .obj files.
Misfit's my favorite, I use it for all my 3d needs

[Graf Paper]

There are actually many free 3D modeling apps, most released under some sort of open source license (GPL, MIT, BSD, etc.)

Wings3D is probably the best overall for beginners but has enough features to allow for even complex model building for SH3 and SH4.

Misfit3D is another one that is similar to Wings3D.

Blender 3D is the 900-pound gorilla of free 3D apps. It's even been used to produce theatrical-release quality animated movies. More extensions and scripts than there's room here to list!

DAZ 3D, is commercial freeware. They rely on the sales of add-on content to generate income for the company, so be prepared to get a few adverts each month in your e-mail box. They do offer some free stuff, though.

You might want to texture your models, so here's two free graphics apps:

GIMP, is the open-source community's answer to Photoshop. Although not as slick and polished as Adobe's flagship product, it is capable of doing a dizzying array of edits, enhancements, and effects with the same powerful features many people shell out $799 or more to have with PS.

Project Dogwaffle is a commercial graphics/animation app that has a full-featured freeware version, using the older engine from the previous iteration (v1.2) but it is still able to do impressive and detailed work.

Just Google for those names and you'll be ready to start working away at that u-boat/Bismark hybrid in no time!

Anyone else got any freeware or open-source gems they want to contribute?

[Task Force]

and then for the people like me who know nothing of this whole 3d stuff... theres google sketch up...:haha:

[Laufen zum Ziel]

Click my sig to go to SHA then go to modling tools under SHIII. Lots of links for free modling stuff.

[roadhogg]

Thank you kindly guys :)

I think i got Gimp too.

The interfaces on these programs are alien to me, so i was going through the help files/manuals just trying to find out how to import SH3 files to them, to view the ship model.
I couldn't find out how to do it through Blender or Misfit, ( didn't get round to Gimp) and i was baulking at the prospect of having to spend countless hours learning the intricacies of these programs, before stumbling on a way to import and view an SH3 3D model file/Folder.

I've already released a mod for the A/C's with higher armour levels, but i don't want a half baked mod, and neither does the SH3 community.

So your help is appreciated fellas, thanks again:up:

Task Force i don't even know what google sketch up is :)

[roadhogg]

Ok Sledgehammer, exported the .obj file from S3D to Misfit and can now view the model in perspective view as wireframe/smooth/flat etc.

Looks cool :DL

But i tried to export the .zon file to misfit to underlay the zone dimensions in the model, and it it won't do it :cry:
Unrecognized file format.

Is there a way to get the zone Boxes/Spheres to appear in the 3D model in Misfit?
If that one can be cracked i'm off and running, and can get to work on the zones :yeah:

[Task Force]

you have to use S3d I think to see the zones.:yep:

[roadhogg]

Hi again TF :),
i can see the zones with S3D, but only as numerical X,Y and Z co-ordinates.
No doubt the ship modellers can view these zones as 3D box sections within the model, which is what i'm also trying to achieve.
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _ _
\_____ |_____|______|______/
\ ____| ____ | _____|_ ____/
\__ _|_ __ _|_ __ __| __ _ /

Like that :D

But in 3D instead of 2D

[Sledgehammer427]

yikes, looks like you are making individual compartments :o

[karamazovnew]

GMax is your best choice. It's free and it has been used for a long time for moding. It's a 3dStudioMax version which can only be used for modeling and texturing (and animation I think). I think it was even included in Flight Simulator or Unreal Tournament. There's also a free version of Maya call Personal Learning Edition. It's based on Maya 8.5. However I don't think it can work with the OBJ format. For modeling purposes, it has the best interface and tools you can imagine. Takes some time to getting used to it but there are tons of tutorials on the net to get you started, and then there's the Digital Tutors series of tutorials (but it costs a lot).

[roadhogg]

Sledgehammer the zones ARE individual compartments within the model, that's what the zone co-ordinates define( X,Y and Z). 3D boxes.
The zones define certain vital areas within the model, such as the number of engine rooms and their dimensions, fuel and ammo bunker dimensions.

The compartments (zones) contain their own armour levels, and a gun shell of a given size is assigned a certain destructive power. If it's a big shell with enough power to penetrate both the hull armour, and the armour for the internal zone, engine rooms flood, ammo/fuel bunkers explode etc.
The models tendency to list, due to taking on water, and ultimately sink, is determined by the strength of the hull armour, plus the level of "flotability" assigned to various compartments (zones) within the model, sometimes seperate from, but often in combination with, the afforementioned areas being penetrated (fuel/ammo/engine zones).

But flotability zones are seperate from those areas, and as such have their own dedicated dimensions and settings.
When an important, or critical, area is penetrated by gunfire, bomb or torpedo, it can also trigger a sphere to activate.
The spheres are 3 dimensional cylindrical areas, with various radii ( radiuses :O:), which, when penetrated, produce effects, like explosions, smoke and fire. These are normally linked to the important/critical zones.

( Lots of penetration occuring here :D)

I get the sneaky feeling that you already know this :03: but just in case, that's a laymans description of how the ships behaviour, and the effects, are determined :DL.

Bottom line is that the zones and spheres are indeed individual compartments, that already exist within the model to determine it's behaviour.

karamazovnew i looked up the free version of maya, but it no longer appears to exist on their site ( or at least i couldn't find it).

So far i've got Misfit, Blender and Gimp, and with Sledgehammers help i can now view the model in 3D through Misfit, but still can't view the zones (yet). But their must be a way, i just gotta find it.

Edit:

Karamazovnew i went to Autodesk via a search link, that i think put me on the wrong page.
Just searched it again and there's a 30 day free trial version of maya on it.

[kiwi_2005]

Gmax is great, as for the Maya freebie 'karamazovnew' mention its no longer available from what i read maybe to many stuck with the free version that Maya cancelled it. I no longer use Photo shop either since trying out Gimp far better program than what Photoshop will ever be. Photoshop $300+, Gimp Free!

[Madox58]

The free version of Maya would not save to the obj format.
I still have a copy of it on the external drive.
Never installed it.

I also have the free version of Lightwave.
Never installed that.

[roadhogg]

I gather it prints a big watermark over anything produced anyway, rendering it useless for display.
Not that i want to display anything, all i want to do is view the model zones and spheres in 3D within the model.
Would save drawing a sketch of the model ( or a 3d rectangle would do really) and drawing in the zone boxes one by one from their co-ordinates.

With 40 to 55 for each ship it would take ages for each A/C.

You da man on zones and spheres- a little birdie tells me privateer :yeah: :03:


So please, have you any idea how to view a model's zones and spheres in 3D, within the models hull?
It's not rocket science to deduce that if 3d zones and spheres can be created and assigned properties for internal areas of a model, to control behaviour/reactions, they MUST be viewable in 3D, if only to check that they fit within the hull.
I can view the obj file ( the models hull) in Misfit, but can't import and view the zones.
pretty please :D how's it done?

Which app will allow me to view both the model and the zones within it in 3D?

Not heard of Lightwave previously ( have now though), have checked out Google 3D sketch, just so i know what Task Force was talking about.

[Madox58]

A version of S3D released only to some has the ability
to view and edit the zones I'm told.

And a zone editor by Ref released only to a few will do it also.

Both programs are mostly Alpha versions so not released to the general population at this time.

I've also heard the NYGM team has something also.
That is sheer rumor as far as I know.
I'll not pretend to have any facts on that.

I do use Ref's Zone Editor.
I've also asked him to release it as is.
It's the best out there that I have seen.

Ref, in my opinion, has created a fantastic tool for doing zone work.
It is a bit rough until you understand it and work with it.
But it is a masterpiece of programming for SH3 and SH4.

And it's a old program as far as how long it's been around.
If Ref ever releases it?
I'd be more then happy to handle the user support for it.

Here's what the boxes and spheres look like.
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Stuff/Zones.jpg

[roadhogg]

So as it stands theres nothing available at the moment i can use?

Actually as the post has progressed the issue seems to have become a little clouded, so here goes.

Spheres were mentioned ( just by way of explanation really) but i don't need to touch them, they'll already have the right settings and positioning for the zones they're in or linked to.
I wouldn't need to alter any zone dimensions, just alter some zone types according to their armour/flotability/critical chance/hitpoint settings.

For example, VonDos's Glorious takes terrific amounts of damage, but keeps going like an express train and won't list to either side until her hitpoints are exceeded and she'll then sink quickly.

Reducing her hull armour from 96.0 to 70-75 helped a bit, but not enough.
She can be sunk a bit sooner, but still won't list or stop till she's at sinking point.

I think it's because she's too bouyant, so engine rooms don't flood and even if one flotation area (zone) floods, the other zones keep her sailing straight and level.
I've spoken to VonDos about modding the Glorious's sinking behaviour and he's given me the thumbs up for it.

By contrast, the other carriers armour levels were increased from 35 to 70-75, which made them a bit tougher, but they still list too easily/quickly, props stop and they're dead in the water fairly quick.

The idea is to make them tough old birds, which they were, and put up a fight, which they would.
But they weren't battleships, and were armed with lightwieght firepower, except for the Graf Zeppelin, which was designed to double up as a commerce raider and was accidentally equipped with twice as many light cruiser guns as intended.

But . . .

So i want to get them to be reasonably impervious to destroyer fire (small calibre, David and Goliath job), but increasingly susceptible to larger calibre guns, as they would have been in R/L.
To do that i need to get the flotability settings right, so i need to see where those zones are, and tweak them from the list of types in the zones.cfg, together with the right settings for hull, engine room, ammo/fuel armour levels, to achieve the right (and consistent) effects.

Looks like i'll have to do it on paper from the zone co-ordinates :cry:, or leave them as is until the apps you mention become available :hmmm:

Thanks for the info though :up:

Edit:

That DOES look like a cool tool :) and the zones and spheres appear almost exactly how i visualised them, except the spheres are spherical instead of cylindrical ( might be in the name lol).
In my defence, i was just going from the x,y and z limits and radius (cringe) :)

[Madox58]

Well,
Spheres are spheres after all.
:haha:

I'll need to re-read your posts in this thread
before I define things a bit better for you.

You are on the right track though.
The zone stuff is a touchy area.

It takes a lot of time to understand them and work them.
Even haveing a visual editor is pretty much useless
if you don't understand the basics.

I'm the classic example of that!
GWX 2 had my ASWT that we needed to release a patch for.
Pretty shameful considering I had the Visual Tool!

But I did not understand the zones and such at that time.
I took the time to learn and improved my approach to zone work.
I studied what VonHelshing did.
I saw what he did and follow his work.

I'm not saying others damage models are wrong.
I just prefer VonHelshings approach.

[roadhogg]

VonHelshing is a name i've not heard of before, in the modding world.
He's not in the captains roster either, so finding his approach to zone work may take some time.
I've gone back to the beginning with VonDos's Glorious, because i butchered the back up files while testing and felt i was missing something, because i couldn't remember what the original settings were, having made so many alterations.

I found out i'd actually increased the bouyancy of a set of zones instead of reducing them, because i didn't understand whether greater critical chance and/or flotability settings for the zones in the zones.cfg, made the model more or less bouyant, and i'd gone the wrong way.

( changed 109's to 165's)

I'm still a bit confused because i can't find where an armour level of -1 is defined for whatever zone type i'm experimenting with, and taking in to account armour levels, flotability, critical chance, flooding times, crash depths and multipliers, the only way to test one zone type for an area compared to another is by trying it.

I could do with an explanation of those parameters values and effects from someone that understands them really, cos theres nothing in the .cfg file to explain them, or anywhere else that i know of.

It's a fine balance, but without understanding every parameters effects on a zone i'm struggling to get things even near right, tbh :hmmm:

I can work out where the zones are easily enough, just from the co-ordinates, but even after i've located their function and position, i don't get the same reaction to the same zone settings for the same areas, on different ships.
And just one out of balance zone setting will completely transform a ships behaviour.

Any info would be more than welcome :D

[Madox58]

Useing a hex editor,
open SH3Collisions.act in the Silent Hunter III folder.
You can read explainations of the settings in there.
:)

And VonHelshing is in the Captains roster.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=221184

[roadhogg]

Oh well, don't know how i missed him in the Captains roster, must have been having a bad hair day :oops:
Playing with a hex editor and .act files for the first time wasn't too rewarding either.
I found some legible text in the right hand column about 2/3 way down the file, but it's not exactly in the easily readable txt file layout, and didn't really tell me anything i hadn't already worked out. Just brief, disjointed descriptions.
I tried exporting it to Excel in txt format, i wonder if i've missed the way to make more text readable, or if that's all there is?
Apparently they're audio compressed files, so i guess the 16 bit binary code is not convertable as text, though maybe to WAV or something as audio.

Just to add insult to injury, the fan has packed up on the X-clio propeller case i bought 2 weeks ago to house all my computer bits, so i'll probably be spending the next couple of days dismantling and re-assembling my pc in the old case so i can send the case back to Scan computers.
Then doing it all again when they send me a fixed/new case.

Marvellous :DL :wah:

[Madox58]

I have most of the info in a text file somewhere.
With comments that help define those in the act files.
I'll dig it out for you.

It still takes hands on working of the zones to learn
how to set them all up on a unit.

That there is no guide for.
It's a matter of studying the exisiting damage models you like.

Then building your own till your happy with it.

[roadhogg]

The biggest change has been to my learning curve.

However just one zone change -WILL- transform a ships behaviour, and you're right, it's a tricky area thats taken time to understand.

I went back to the stock settings, drew every zones location on a piece of paper so i knew where they were, and tested different settings for compatible zones on the ships behaviour.
I've almost cracked it with all the big carriers, and the good news is that the Graf zep, Aquilla, Illustrious and Essex share the same zones and spheres.

Doesn't mean the Illustrious/Essex will react the same way exactly, but gives me a good start on them :DL
The Glorious has a number of extra/different zones, and, being lower and wider, is inherantly more stable, but i've almost cracked it there too.

If i've figured it correctly, for a particular zone, multiplier applies to armour levels or hit points.
flotability: is a percentage in relation to bouyancy characteristics of zone
Hitpoints: is self explanatory
Destructable: self explanatory
Armour level: is obvious, unless it's -1 (linked to hull armour i think)
critical flotation: is a percentage of criticality to ship bouyancy, as opposed to just the zone
critical: determines whether zone flooding/destruction is definitely critical to ships total bouyancy
critical chance: is percentage probability of area flooding completely, or percentage of criticality to total bouyancy
flooding time: in seconds
cargo type: cargo, or not, in zone
crash depth: depth at which zone completely floods, or is destroyed.

I don't know for sure how accurate those explanations are, but in the absence of official definition, that's what they mean to me.
Seems to kind of work out in practise.

Edit:
In the case of the multiplier, it may have conditions to maximum values of other areas, so it could apply to critical chance, flotability, hitpoints or armour levels.
Basically the higher the multiplier, the tougher the zone, or the more critical it is.

I think

[roadhogg]

Just a correction to inaccurate information earlier in this post.

Spheres are collision areas for the ship model, and DO NOT control visual effects like fire and smoke.
Apologies to Sledgehammer, and anyone else who read that incorrect information, it was based on my limited knowledge at the time.
Work on the carrier mod has stopped.
I'm fed up drawing zones and spheres on pieces of paper for each ship to check sinking mechanics, armour effects, missing effects zones (on at least one carrier), in order to test and refine the results.

Shame really, i'd broke the back of it.

Maybe when i can view the zones i'll have another go in future.

[Anvart]

Not bad 3D editor ... Modo 401 SP1 ... not free ..., but you can find the full version copy for trying in the WWW ...


http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3977/il2t.jpg


For interested subhunters:

http://content3.luxology.com/download/product/modo/401/modo401_SP1_win32.exe
http://content3.luxology.com/download/product/modo/401/modo401_SP1_win64.exe

http://content3.luxology.com/download/product/modo/401/modo401_Content_win.zip

http://content3.luxology.com/download/product/modo/401/modo401_SP1_win32.exe.torrent
http://content3.luxology.com/download/product/modo/401/modo401_SP1_win64.exe.torrent

http://content3.luxology.com/download/product/modo/401/modo401_Content_win.zip.torrent

[roadhogg]

Thanks Anvart, it was actually a 3D zone editor i was trying to find, i thought initially it might be included in a model editor.
Seems theres not one generally available with viewing capability similar to the way you can view a model.
Skywasjer was going to make a 3d viewable zone function for S3D Editor, but didn't get around to it.
I've just about done all the zone alterations for the big aircraft carriers in SH3 now anyway, but haven't figured out how to add a custom zone to the zone list (tried adding an index number and parameters but it doesn't work).
I also can't get the smoke effects to work ( without fire ), "SmokeLarge" is defined in the zones.cfg and it's index (182), but doesn't work in practise.
Similarly "SmokeSmall" and "SmokeMedium" are defined and parametered, but are not indexed.

I thought it was kind of cool to have smoke billowing out of a large shell hole in the side of a carrier, just above the water line, complete with one prop not working and a 10 degree list, but i can't finish the mod i was going to do without a new zone and working smoke ( without the fire ).

I don't think many people are interested in carrier fixes/changes anyway, but at least i've sorted them out for my own amusement.

I appreciate your effort to help though.
Thanks :up:

[rs77]

I don't think many people are interested in carrier fixes/changes anyway, but at least i've sorted them out for my own amusement.


people are interested in all kinds of fixes/changes that improve gameplay :up:

I suppose that that there are not so many writing in your post because the subject is quite difficult and there is little knowledge about this. If your mod is working good, no CTD etc, than why not to release it ?

:salute:

[roadhogg]

Because as i said in the above post it requires the addition of a new zone in the zones.cfg, for zones that surround the engines, and i've not been able to add the zone, and get the game to recognise it.

For testing purposes, i've modified an existing zone, but zones are used by many ships, so changing an existing zone may cause weird behaviour in another type of ship that uses the same zone.

Bear in mind that most of the carriers were somewhat top heavy, with a high centre of gravity.

With standard zones once they started listing it was either terminal, or the flotability/critical flotation/armour levels/flooding times balances were out of proportion to what was needed, so they listed too quickly, listed too much, didn't list at all, etc, etc.
Generally the standard zones were fine, for the carriers it was simply the zones around the engines ( the centre of the ship) that made all the difference.
Plus the smoke effects don't seem to work without fire.
I'm just repeating what i said in the above post here really.

If i can do it so i'm completely happy with it, and it has no possible detrimental effects on other ships, i'll release it.
If i can't, i won't.
So until i find out how to add the zone and get the effects working, the mod's stalled.
Simple :up:

[Anvart]

...
I also can't get the smoke effects to work ( without fire ), "SmokeLarge" is defined in the zones.cfg and it's index (182), but doesn't work in practise.
Similarly "SmokeSmall" and "SmokeMedium" are defined and parametered, but are not indexed.
...

I think ... as variant ...
At first ...
you must try to create root (separated) effects (as #smoke_small and #smoke_big) in particles.dat ...
and then to apply these effects in Zones.cfg to various damages ...
...
or no ... at first try to apply existing (in particles.dat) child effects #smoke_small/#smoke_big to various damages in Zones.cfg ...
or for experiment :D try to apply #funnel_smoke effect to various damages in Zones.cfg ...
... and if :down: then make that is written above ...

[roadhogg]

Thanks Anvart.

In the particles .dat i found the Fire_small and Fire_big nodes.
Each had a sub section node called Smoke_small and Smoke_big.
I assume these sub nodes are the "children" of the main node (parent?).
There was no Fire_medium node and therefore no "child", Smoke_medium, which is the one i'm after.
I did find the Smoke_small_scalable child node tho.
I won't need to apply to damage percentages, because the effect zone is placed in the engine room, and will activate when it's armour rating is exceeded, once the engine room is penetrated.

It's made me realise that each index number needs a reference, or parent, node of some kind, somewhere, including any new flotation zones added to the zone index in the zones.cfg
Otherwise they won't be recognised.

I can't alter anything in the parameters for the smoke zones in the zones.cfg, in case it adversely affects any other "Effects" settings, so seperating the smoke zones from the fire zones doesn't seem possible. . . . . yet.

It's undoubtedly obvious to you :), but try to bear in mind that before this attempt to mod the carriers, my knowledge rating for zones, modelling, hex editors, act. files, and anything else to do with game functions and mechanics, was absolute zero :D , other than a quickie on the german cruisers, which someone explained to me.

The zones.cfg mentions a "zone properties editor", but not it's location.
I get the awful feeling someones going to tell me it's the SH3controllers .act file, which i have to learn to edit with a hex editor :cry:
( not dared to look at it yet )

Oh well, back to the learning curve i suppose :woot:

Thanks again for the info :DL

Edit:

rs77 . . i re-read my reply to your post earlier, and the tone of it left me wondering, which is especially not good considering i wrote it.

So just in case . .

thanks for your comments, they were obviously meant by way of encouragement :)
and hi :)

[skwasjer]

Last few S3D beta's contain a zone editor which does the job perfectly fine - I'm told anyway - but I never got to finish the project (v1.0) and never released this beta in public:

http://sh4.skwas.net/screenshots.aspx

It contains many other new features too.

And since I abandoned S3D recently I will post the last beta (0.9.8, which isn't even released to testers) as soon as I have access to my home pc (I don't live at home right now). The only side note is the entire build may not be as stable as the current public release and dual install is not possible... Eta, I hope, in about 10 days.

[roadhogg]

Hi skywasjer, sorry to read that things haven't been so good for you recently, hope they improve for you soon.

I saw the screenshots last week, so i read through almost your entire support thread, and it's obvious from it that you have the kind of programming knowledge that i'll probably never possess. Hat's off to you :salute:

Lots of info on so many aspects in that thread, i might read it again soon just for the hell of it.

I managed without the zone viewer eventually, although i got the ike tbh, with drawing sketches of zone locations.
Funny thing was, after leaving it alone for a day i went back to it with a fresh pair of eyes, and found it was so much easier to do the second carrier, because after a week or more testing parameters and their effects on the ships, by now i knew what i was looking at from the type, settings, and locations.

Still had to draw the sketches for instant reference, but subsequent alterations were a doddle compared to the first carrier.

S3D is such a great tool, especially once it got the model viewer, and with a zone viewer it would make it virtually a one stop shop for almost all aspects of modding.
Respect :yeah:
There's no one worth their salt that wouldn't be grateful for what you've achieved, to their benefit.

And best wishes for the future.

[Sledgehammer427]

Apologies to Sledgehammer, and anyone else who read that incorrect information, it was based on my limited knowledge at the time.

It's quite aright Hogg, all I really do is model, edit .sims, and make sure everything looks okay ingame

even though I work in SH4, I do visit this thread every now and then to make sure I'm not missing anything from my haggard old copy of SH3;)

[roadhogg]

Hi dude :D


It's quite aright Hogg, all I really do is model, edit .sims, and make sure everything looks okay ingame


Hmmm . . .

perhaps you could help me making a node to fix the non-working propeller on VonDos's Aquilla? :03:

Just kiddin m8 :D i'll figure it out eventually . . . possibly :hmmm:

[Anvart]

...
you must try to create root (separated) effects (as #smoke_small and #smoke_big) in particles.dat ...
and then to apply these effects in Zones.cfg to various damages ...
...
... or if you want to create new zone(s) with new effect(s) ... in Zones.cfg ... for damages or other purposes ...
... and if you know Hexeditor you can create new zones in object.zon (for simplification of work you can load object in 3D editor and create effect-box(s) and correct place it(s) and write down coordinates ...) ... or use GW_Jummu for this purpose ...

...
(I don't live at home right now).
...
?... ? ... in any case i wish the best solveing of all problems ...

[roadhogg]

Unfortunately i'd never even heard of a hexeditor before last week.

Tried converting the SH3 collisions file to txt with HxD but still got the result in 16 bit with a bit of readable text in the right hand column, which can be seen in original file.
Also tried Googling it, but got loads of information that didn't look relevant to being able to see the file in conventional format.

Inevitably i guess, i'll have to get much more adept at converting and editing files with a hex editor.

Don't hold your breath though :03:

Edit:

I use S3D to create new zones for the ships already, and locate them via the x,y,z co-ordinates, so there's no prob there.

But i get the impression that only zones -types- already listed in the zones.cfg are recognised, and creating a new zone -type- in the zones.cfg, and adding an index number to it, has no effect, because the game doesn't recognise it.
I think all types listed in the .cfg index, are also listed somewhere else, but i don't know where that is.
So there's a "chain of command" for the zone types, and the index in the zones.cfg is a copy of it, but not the original reference for the game engine.
Which means you can add new types of zones and new index numbers in the .cfg all you want, but the game won't use them, because it only recognises the index entries already in the index.
Hope that makes sense.

[Anvart]

:haha:
... hope respected skwasjer will publish last beta in the nearest two weeks ...

...
Edit:

I use S3D to create new zones for the ships already, and locate them via the x,y,z co-ordinates, so there's no prob there.

But i get the impression that only zones -types- already listed in the zones.cfg are recognised, and creating a new zone -type- in the zones.cfg, and adding an index number to it, has no effect, because the game doesn't recognise it.
I think all types listed in the .cfg index, are also listed somewhere else, but i don't know where that is.
So there's a "chain of command" for the zone types, and the index in the zones.cfg is a copy of it, but not the original reference for the game engine.
Which means you can add new types of zones and new index numbers in the .cfg all you want, but the game won't use them, because it only recognises the index entries already in the index.
Hope that makes sense.
You think that it's hardcoded?
Try to compare Zones.cfg (particles.dat) from stock game and GWX3-mod ...

I think all types listed in the .cfg index, are also listed somewhere else, but i don't know where that is.

IIRC ... only using by you ... in your object.zon ... and for submarines in Basic.cfg too ...

[roadhogg]

Well it would be good for the rest of us :DL, but on a serious note, he's obviously having serious problems in RL atm, and personally i think in view of the work he put in to S3D and how much he achieved, if he walks away from S3D now i'd be satisfied as is.
Read through his support thread, and you'll see just how much time and effort must have gone in to developing S3D and it's code :03:

And all on the shoulders of one guy.

Not hardcoded, but i think maybe there's a "master" reference for zone types somewhere, and if new zone types are parametered and indexed in the zones.cfg the new index number has to be added to that master index.


I also hope i'm wrong, because it would be much easier, just to define new zone types in the .cfg and have them work, but for testing i created a new index number for the
SmokeMedium effect, assigned it to the zone in the ship through S3D (.zon)

And nowt happened :(

I also tried it for SmokeSmall and SmokeLarge in the .cfg ( SmokeLarge already has index 182 )
and still, nowt happened.

There's a link missing somewhere.

Edit:

Come to think of it, if the program goes straight to the zones.cfg, in the parameters for each of the fire effects, is the line
Effect1=#Fire_small/big
which will send it to the parent node, where it then reads the child node
Smoke_small/big
If it needs a parent node for the type,
inserting the line (as i did)
Effect1=#smoke_small/big in the parameters for the smoke effects in the .cfg, is useless.

Which might mean the only way to get smoke effects on their own is to assign them parent nodes in the particles.dat, as you suggested.
But i know sweet fanny adams about creating nodes :)
Plus i'm still trying to get my head round whether it will affect any of the other effects or not.

[Anvart]

I see your thoughts are not bad already ...
If you have compared Zones.cfg in stock game and in GWX3 mod (for example) ... You have seen, that in section [Zones List] we have:
in stock - 191 items ... in GWX3 - 212 items ... :salute:
New items are described below ... (as example) 199=, 192=[C3MrMojosinking], 210=[AISFireMedium] and so on ...
... as example... 182=[SmokeLarge] is used in NCVE_Bogue.zon, ... 210=[AISFireMedium] is used in NSS_Uboat2B.zon and so on ...
... and all this works ...
After creation new zone [B]Type in Zones.cfg you should create a corresponding box-effect with new Type in yours object.zon ...
... about new effect (in particles.dat) in previous replies ...

[roadhogg]

I mentioned earlier that i tried 182 but it didn't look like it worked :o

Maybe the tests were faulty in some way, so i'll do some more.

Tried creating a parent node to seperate the other smoke effects yesterday too, but failed :cry:

Nodes are a whole new world to me, and the effects nodes don't look like simple ones, they have a number of child nodes in them.
Not a good choice for a first experiment by a novice like me.

I'm considering leaving the smoke for now, and perhaps adding it to the carriers at a later date.


After creation new zone Type in Zones.cfg you should create a corresponding box-effect with new Type in yours object.zon ...
... about new effect (in particles.dat) in previous replies .


After making a new flotation zone for the carriers, ie:
193=ACFlotEmpty (with parameters defined further down the zones.cfg)
Do you mean . . .
open the .zon file for the ship (any carrier)
go to the box you want the new zone in
and enter the type number (193)

Because that's what i did, but i don't think it recognises the zone.

Unless box-effect means something else.
I'll check through the previous posts.

Thanks for your patience Anvart, i know it can be frustrating talking to novices, but i'm trying dude, i'm trying :DL