Need tactical help on a mission for SC

[Robsoie]

Hello,

My tactics problem is with SC patched to 1.08 + SCU/SCX (http://www.subguru.com/downloads.html)

I am playing with the nice mission "2P - Multi" that features a duel between a 688 and an Akula on a relatively small zone that have some randomly generated civilian traffic.
This mission is the first scenario from that list :
http://www.subguru.com/missions.htm

During that mission i stay at +/- 4 knots and change regularly my depth to see if i can spot the Akula easier, as unfortunately the civilian traffic can parasite my broadband (and the one from the Akula too)
The thermal layer is between 400 and 500.

My problem is that each time i finally manage to find the Akula while moving around all that civilian sounds parasite on my sonars, i am setting my fire solution and fire my Mk48 torpedoes, the Akula usally very few seconds later, or in the same time, opens fire too.

And when we were able to detect each other, apparently we are usually around +/- 10 nmi of each other.

The Akula launch a bunch (5 or 6) of SS-N-27 ASW and Stalions missiles that fly very quickly +/- to my location and launch their torpedoes payload when they are over my positions, so in few seconds i am the target of 5/6 torpedoes.

With some lucks and desesperate evasion moves with some active decoy, i am only hit once, but the damage is enough to get me crawling, then usually a Shkvall follow at high speed and achieve my already badly damaged 688.

And during all this time my slow Mk48 are always in the water looking for their target with no more hope to hit anything as i can't steer them anymore.

This mission featuring random starting locations for the 2 subs allow a lot of replay value, but it does not help in building the whole strategy as the situation will always be different, as the civilian traffic may or may not parasite each subs own noise.

So for my help requirement on tactic and strategy in this mission, let's assume the civilian traffic is right between the 688 and the Akula.

The Akula is playable too in this mission, but as the 688 driver how can i manage to defeat the Akula in this mission without being hit by the huge amount of torpedoes spawning nearly around me thanks to those Stallions and SS-N-27 ASW.

[Robsoie]

To test a bit those ranges to see if i was overlooking something, this time i played as the Akula driver (a sub i have drove so few time that i can be considered as complelely new to it) , and destroyed the 688 easily on my first attempt.

Those missiles unloading their payload very near to their target are real monsters, as not only it takes then very few time to have a torpedo in the vicinity of the 688 (while the 688 torpedoes must travel all the way, taking lot of time), you can even get a lot of them on location to take down the nearly hopeless 688 in the a matter of seconds, instead of minutes like in the opposite situation.
Not even needed to fire a shkvall.

Basically in such battle, i just can't see how the 688 can stand a single chance, the detection range of the 688 and Akula are obviously nearly similar from what i experienced in this mission, meaning that both subs will see each other and then fire +/- in the same time their torpedoes/missiles.

But the Akula with its torpedoes delivered by missiles allow it to destroy the 688 in seconds after detection, as the 688 will never have the time to move to full speed trying to evading the torpedoes that just appeared near it.

As in none of my attempts as the 688 driver that i am more used to drive, the passive or active decoys were able to catch all the torpedoes incoming, there are always 2 or more than end into directly hitting my 688.

I know very few people may play Sub Command nowadays, but i could really need help in defeating the akula in this SCU/SCX mission, as defeating the 688 with the Akula despite i am completely unexperienced in this russian sub gives me no problem.

[Robsoie]

Replying to myself again.

Akula sunk, i found the tactic, i called it "Pure Luck".

Because in another attempt, i detected the Akula as usual at around always the same kind of range, i set my firing solution and launched 4 Mk48 , and because in the same conditions previously the Akula always retaliate immediately and fire its myriad of SS-27 ASW missiles pinpointing my sub, i dive dive dive and run run run, changing my course, launching countermeasures passive and active along the way...

But for nothing because this time the Akula does not shoot a single missile or torpedo, it just begin trying to evade my incoming torpedoes, manage to do it, but as for the 1st time the Akula did not attacked, i can drive 2 torpedoes around until they re-acquire the russian sub that continue to evade and launch counter measures like crazy.

Not enough for one of my Mk48 that destroy it.

So this is the tactic to use : pure luck.
If you can't use this tactic because you are not in a lucky day , the Akula AI will retaliate (as it can detect your 688 at the same time you can detect it) and it will not be possible in such relatively close range battle scenario to evade everything it will throw at you , so you will be first crippled (as 1 SS-N-27 ASW payload does not destroy you in one hit), then sunk by either another payload or a shkvall, while your slow Mk48 will never be able to reach the Akula location before you sink.

But if you can use the "pure luck" tactic, for totally unknown reason the AI will not retaliate despite it can "see" you obviously (or at least see the torpedoes bearing), so your slow torpedoes will be able to reach the Akula while you are in your evading moves because your 688 will not be crippled by the 5/6 SS-N-27 ASW payload appearing in front of your sub in seconds as it usually happens in this battle.

[Nexus7]

Evading ASROCKS is a problem just until you get experienced enought in doing it...

When you evade make sure to have an UUV in the water, set to active, close enough to your ship (not more than 3nm away) and turned, this will deliver you more or less a "see truth" of the inbounds.......

[Pisces]

Can't you fire on the opposite side of the layer at him? Then make the adcaps go to searchdepth when they reach the enable point. It's been awhile since I played subcommand so I may be missing something important if/why it doesn't work.

[Pisces]

I played this scenario again last night with a SCX2/SCU install. Tough cookie! It kept being fired upon without a moments notice or even a faint frequency line in narrowband. On one occasion within a few minutes of game start. No way that akula (or whatever the exact type it is) would have me ranged up in that time. Even if it spawned in my vicinity. Clearly the AI cheats with TMA.

Anyway, I edited the starting speed of the playable 688i sub to 1 knot. I didn't want my 5 kts speed to give me away before I could slow it down. That significantly increased my lifetime duration. Also going deeper (1500 ft, just above crushdepth) helped. But at 1 or 2 knots that takes ages. Afterwards you can increase speed to 8-10kts after that to close-up or search. I got pretty close, upto 3nm trying to get positive passive id, but then he detected me and was again shark-meat. Nasty flying torpedos got me. 5 of 'em. :damn:

[Frame57]

Sounds like the Akula has better sonar ability. I would try to close the gap and go silent at all stop. If you have a good TMA and can get behind the Akula, fire 4 fish. He should be taking evasive manuevers rather than wildly firing ASROCS in close proximity. Firing 48's at a long distance is just begging for those ASROCS to fly. It gives him a relative position which is all he needs.

[Pisces]

I got him this time. I made sure I was the first to pull the trigger. I was again pretty deep 1500 to make use of the deep soundchannel (curving my soundwaves away from the layer at 400ft into the deep, ... if the game actually simulates it that way) Anyway, I decided to fire 1 torpedo infront of him at about 12k range (launched at 1500ft deep, search depth default 200ft). Over-leading him by a significant angle (30 degrees or so), hoping he would notice it wasn't on collision course (yet ... :arrgh!: ) and meant for him. Good, because he didn't flinch.. He didn't speed up until the torpedo was infront on his track. There I steered the Mk48 into him, and it went active at te same time because that's how I set the activation range. That first ping of the Mk48 woke him up, as it decided to turn and run away opening from me an the torpedo. But whichever way he turned, it increased his effective reflection area so the mk48 had no trouble homing in.

Not me, but him this time.

:gulp:

[Robsoie]

I think this simple and small close quarter battle is very interesting on a tactical level, it reminds me a very lot of Red Storm Rising, you don't have to look for your opponent for dozen of hours, and so you must think a lot about what to do to prepare for any cases, and prepare for the consequences of any of your actions.

Maybe with 2 subs being similar it would be more like chess, as in this very close quarter battle the Akula having a very similar detection range as the 688 has a bit of advantage due to its better weaponry.

[JamesT73J]

In the stock SC days you could comfortably snapshot him and the torpedo would usually get the kill. With SCX it's harder as you need an accurate solution, and in this respect, the AI is faster.