Ship Lengths for TMO 1.7

[karamazovnew]

June 28 2009
DOWNLOAD LINK (metric version): http://files.filefront.com/ShipLengthTMO17+meterszip/;13939970;/fileinfo.html
DOWNLOAD LINK (imperial version yards): http://files.filefront.com/ShipLengthTMO17+yardszip/;13939971;/fileinfo.html
DOWNLOAD LINK (imperial version feet): http://files.filefront.com/ShipLengthTMO17+feetzip/;13939972;/fileinfo.html

A simple mod that will replace the Speed data in the Recognition Manual with Length data. The mod is JSGME ready, apply over TMO (doesn't conflict with the TMO patches). Don't panic when you see the conflicts with TMO, it's normal.

The archives also include Excel spreadsheets with the corresponding values for length, mast, draft, width, max speed, tonnage and renown for almost every ship in the game. Please remember that the ship's Height actually corresponds to the changes made by the Ship Center Accuracy Fix mod.

This mod was made for Trigger Maru 1.7 and should not be used with any other mod that has different *.cfg files in the Sea folder.

Speed formula:
V[knots] = 1.944 * ( Length[m] / Time[s] )
V[knots] = 0.592 * ( Length[feet] / Time[s] )

Although after testing it in a few patrols I did not notice any problems (apart from crashes to desktop when I try to enter the museum, but that happens even without my mod :O:), please submit here any problems you encounter. I have no idea if the 3d models are indeed of the same lengths as the ones in the cfg files, so please don't blame me for missed shots. So far, the speeds were consistent to within 0.5 knot error which is a great starting point for the PK.

For all the other mods, the method is simple as it involves just 2 steps and can be finished in less than 20 mins (or 4 hours for imperial version).

Step 1
In the Data\Menu\menu.txt file changes these lines:
2019=Speed:
2029=knots
into (metric):
2019=Length:
2029=m
or (imperial feet):
2019=Length:
2029=feet

Step 2
In the Data\Sea folder, go to each ship folder, open the cfg file and replace the MaxSpeed value with the Length value just below.
For example, change:

MaxSpeed=28.5
Length=155

into (metric):
MaxSpeed=155
Length=155

or (imperial feet):
MaxSpeed=508.5
Length=155

Don't worry, you won't see the Yamato doing 263 knots :har:.

Enjoy :salute:

[Webster]

i see one small problem with your solution, as i understand it (and im pretty sure about this) the game uses the ships length and width values found in the ships cfg file to determine the actual size to generate the ship in the game so changing the length will also change the size of the ship which in turn will have an effect on targetting.

[karamazovnew]

I am not changing the Length :nope:, I'm changing the MaxSpeed value, as that one is used only for the recognition manual. The actual speed/telegraph settings for each ship is stored in other files. I know this because I set my Uboat's speed to 13 knots for the Standard telegraph, as it was in SH3. What surprised me more was that the "2029=knots" text was never used in the menu1024.ini file. It's hardcoded to that spot only. Just try it, you can put the addon even in the middle of a patrol.

[Webster]

ok, i got them mixed up.

sounds like a good idea if it works without side effects :up:

[jmr]

Awesome work. Now I can carry out the fixed wire method for getting target speed! :rock:

[karamazovnew]

That's what it's for :salute:. Since most of us still have german Atack wheels and the formula is simply 2 x L/time, i made the metric version. If anyone needs the imperial version I'll do that too.

[jmr]

Actually, I'd love to have an Imperial version as I pretty much only use the IS/WAS when playing SH4. Thanks!

[karamazovnew]

Done, imperial version now avalaible. Both archives now include excel spreadsheets with metric/imperial values. All values were taken from the Sea cfg files. Just in case you still fear seeing ships moving at 700 knots, bear in mind that the original MaxSpeed for a Large Sampan is 35 knots :rotfl:.

[karamazovnew]

Shore Leave? nooo give me my Bosun face back :wah:

Edit: that was fast, A-ganger now mwahahaha

[DarkFish]

shore leave isn't too bad. wait till you get 'Wild Night in Bangkok';)

[jmr]

Is it possible to list the lengths as yards? I forgot that the back side of the IS/WAS is calibrated for yards and not feet. So that would be 1yard/sec ~ 1.777 knots.

[karamazovnew]

The thought of going through all those folders makes me dizzy. But do you really need that? Just divide by 3:
1 foot = 0.333333333 yards
1 yards = 3 feet
Nvm, considering how many wiz-was wheels there are i guess i need to do this. Thank god I left the Spreadsheets in the same order as the folders, shouldn't take me long.

[karamazovnew]

Done, check new download links. Oh, just a note, please remember that the cfg files are all in meters, so the only spreadsheet that corresponds to the original values is the metric one. The other are just for show :up:

[karamazovnew]

Anyone still using this mod? Did you encounter any kind of problems? I for one have finished about 10 patrols with it and apart from the TDC(game design, or is it US design?) not being able to use decimal speeds it worked like a charm. I did once miss the "Maximum speed" while trying to figure out what the "Fast" speed was for a far away merchant so I plan to edit the files again to include that info too (you can write "Not's sure exactly" in the speed info and it's still correct to the game :har:).
Also I'm about to do versions for RFB, OM and RSRD. Even if the lengths are 90% correct in all these mods, each one changes something, like renown or ship type. So, interested?

[Rockin Robbins]

Has anyone thought about whether using the mod is even appropriate? Why should you know the exact length of everything that floats on the ocean? Is there any evidence that real submariners knew the true lengths of even half of them? Isn't this "cheating" the game, gaming the game?

Similar to the SCAF, this simply implies a level of knowledge that did not exist, and that in the quest for "accuracy." Well, historical and situational accuracy is just as important as measurement accuracy. In this case, establishing measurement accuracy destroys the historical and situational accuracy of the game, transforming a simulation into an arcade game.

That's OK if your goal is a shooting gallery. But if your quest is simulation, ignorance, uncertainty and frustration are three main ingredients you've just torpedoed.

I completely understand the drive to eliminate the unknown and inaccurate. That was the goal of the real captains too! However, they did not have the ability to rent enemy ships one by one, take them to a friendly harbor, measuring their every dimension at leisure to produce perfect recognition manuals. If we want to play a simulation, neither should we.

If we want to make sure our shooting technique is perfect, unrealistically fixing all errors in parameters so that if we miss we KNOW it's our fault, then this kind of mod is appropriate for training purposes. But real sub captains missed for lots of reasons that were not their fault.

[karamazovnew]

Since in my last patrol I had 10 duds (Mark 10's), 1 circling torpedo and 3 ships which refused to sink and even one that was almost underwater but almost blew my hat off when I surfaced to finish her, plus escorts that either ignored me completely or saw me from 5 miles away during the night as I was diving to periscope depth (P.S. I never save if there's anything near me, habbit from SH3), I take offence to your comment.

Well, let me put it this way. First of all, we had the lengths in the manual in SH3. Those values were preety much wrong, check this link for example. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=152524. In the game we do have Height values, too precise if you ask me, so I never ever push the check button, but instead I move the mast dial by hand. In reality it was the other way around, as the height of the ship was very easy to mask and very hard to make out in all weather or at night.

But then, TMO and RFB both tell you to keep Map Contact updates ON. That preety much settles all of my plotting problems, right? Wrong, because I never use that bloody thing, altough it's useful when shadowing a convoy. And if I do plot, I do so in the middle of the Pacific, so as not to see my own sub. I use only relative bearings and calculate my own movement in that time interval. So I need to do manual plotting right? Wrong again, as we have that chronometer thighie. 2 clicks and you have the course and the speed. But I hate using that too. Now, I can figure out AOB from 5 miles away by eyeball, and range is piss easy with the SH4 stadimeter (unless it refuses to lock on a ship that's 3000 yards away in medium fog). But what about speed? And what if, instead of playing a US sub in TMO, which has auto recognition and a US TDC, I play a german sub which has a broken Notepad, in RFB+OM? The fixed wire method has a bigger error if you go at 1 knot (which I always do) or if the target is at >30 AOB than because the length was off in the recognition manual by 10 bloody meters. Not to mention that the US TDC doesn't allow decimals in the speed. And yes, most ships I've seen go at X.5 knots for some reason. And do try once to use the fixed-wire method in rough seas. The scope deviates by as much as 2 degrees since it's off-center. You're lucky if you nail the time within a 5 second error.

And to finish off, if you're using wither TMO or RFB, let me give you a bit of news. The height value is almost exact to the 3d Model. The length is way off on some ships. Since I only used the data in the cfg files, my data is way off too. the ONI manual would laugh at me.

[karamazovnew]

Ups, almost forgot. One time I actually met a ship which I couldn't recognise. I had RFB at that time and I now know that it was a Minelayer. But then I didn't. So I matched it's course and speed. After I knew both, I applied the inverse tactic to find the length and the mast(by getting close and pinging it for range). I looked in the whole manual and found the ship. My height was off by a lot as I was using SCAF, but even my length was off by almost 8 meters. I reloaded and checked again. I had heights for the deck, for the funnel, for the masts, for the top of the command tower, all were perfect, just as in the picture. I guess that for a slow ship, if you're not seen, it doesn't take more than one attack to figure out the dimensions. Fool me once, game's fault. Fool me twice... mine.

[Rockin Robbins]

So you're saying that your tolerance for uncertainty has been exceeded?:D

Welcome to RFB and TMO!:har: Gotta love 'em. I could do without the SCAF though.

[karamazovnew]

So you're saying that your tolerance for uncertainty has been exceeded?:D

Welcome to RFB and TMO!:har: Gotta love 'em. I could do without the SCAF though.

By a long shot :rotfl:. A while ago I dusted my trygonometry book and managed to get a formula for preety much everything. I entered that 2 row long formula intro excel. You had to enter your speed, and 3 target bearings by 2 methods (at constant time intervals) or 2 time intervals (at 3 simetrycal bearings). Then you entered the bearing at which you wanted to fire and it gave you the gyro for that fire bearing. I think I used it a couple of times before it started ruining the game :hmmm:.

About SCAF... it's actually preety easy to ignore it completely. Make all the masts 50 feet, all the max speeds 10 and use that tehnique I talked about to make your own recognition manual in your next career. But first erase all your memory of the previous known values :rotfl:.