putting helmsman ability to petty officers

[Sag75]

hi,

anyone has never put helmsman ability to petty officers in command room (I mean to plane and dive station)?

..any benefit observed?



thanks!

[meduza]

I have never noticed any difference.

[GoldenRivet]

i just got finished with a series of tests here.

TEST #1 (control)

VIIB
helm rated officers
regular sailors at helm stations
crash dive ordered FROM A DEAD STOP 0 KTS
the time elapsed between the time the crash dive was ordered and the time that the fully extended OBS scope submerged was

37 Seconds by in game stop watch

====================

TEST #2

VIIB
Helm rated officers
helm rated petty officers at helm stations
crash dive ordered FROM A DEAD STOP 0 KTS
the time elapsed between the time the crash dive was ordered and the time that the fully extended OBS scope submerged was

37 seconds by in game stop watch

====================

TEST #3

VIIB
Helm rated officers
helm rated petty officers at helm stations
crash dive ordered WHILE THE BOAT WAS AT MAX SPEED
the time elapsed between the time the crash dive was ordered and the time that the fully extended OBS scope submerged was

35 seconds by in game stop watch

====================

TEST #4

VIIB
Helm Rated Officers
regular sailors at helm stations
crash dive ordered WHILE THE BOAT WAS AT MAX SPEED
VIIB
Helm rated officers
helm rated petty officers at helm stations
crash dive ordered
the time elapsed between the time the crash dive was ordered and the time that the fully extended OBS scope submerged was

35 seconds by in game stop watch

===================

furthermore, the time required to carry out orders, such as "ahead flank", "dive", "hard to port" etc was not affected at all by the qualifications of the command room crew.

[Sailor Steve]

I always keep a Helm-rated PO at the pumps, with two common seamen on the planes. It just feels right to me to do it that way.

[Bent Periscope]

Nice testing Goldrivet.

Could you test with a minimum of non-helm qualified officers but enough helm qualified petty officers to fill the bar green.

I'm wondering if I even need any helm qualified officers or should I just cross train them in other areas. I already know I don't need any Medical Officers but multiple Torp., Machinist & Watch Officers are always good to have around.

[GoldenRivet]

Nice testing Goldrivet.

Could you test with a minimum of non-helm qualified officers but enough helm qualified petty officers to fill the bar green.

I'm wondering if I even need any helm qualified officers or should I just cross train them in other areas. I already know I don't need any Medical Officers but multiple Torp., Machinist & Watch Officers are always good to have around.

standby

[GoldenRivet]

The minimum crew i could put into the command room was:

1 officer with NO qualifications (weapons officer and navigator absent)
3 Regular Sailors.

this dropped the green bar to about 50 or 60% of full

from a dead stop in calm seas i ordered a crash dive and timed the duration of the dive to cover the fully raised OBS scope with water.

the time with minimum crew in the command room

37 seconds from a dead stop

35 seconds while the boat was at maximum surfaced speed of 17-18 knots.

i have also tested crew positions with respect to "loading up" the forward compartments so as to make the boat front heavy... this had no effect on dive time.

it remained consistently 37 seconds at dead stop and 35 seconds at ahead flank.

keep in mind... this is not the time it took to go decks awash... this is the time it took to completely submerge the boat all the way up to a raised periscope mast.

furthermore, the test assumed that some time could be saved if the diesel crew didnt have to switch to the electric engine compartment (this takes a couple of seconds)

in a few additional tests i placed a fully accredited crew into both the diesel and electric compartments.

again this had no effect on crash dive time.

[GoldenRivet]

Addendum my above post:

i find the testing interesting.

is the helmsman qualification more or less useless? i have always been of that opinion.

it seems that of all the compartments within the SH3 boat, the command room is the LEAST affected by crewman qualification.

the stock manual mentioned that the orders are carried out more effectively with a well qualified command room crew, however i have never noticed this.

given orders yield the same reaction time regardless of crew qualifications in the command room.

but take the radio/sonar room for example.

place two regular sailors in there, and you are likley to miss distant sound contacts.

however replace the two sailors with even one radioman qualified petty officer and you can hear very distant contacts.

perhaps this is a glitch?

it seems that something should be affected by command room personnel or lack thereof.

[GoldenRivet]

Ah!

found something of interest.

while only the inexperienced, unqualified officer and 3 sailors occupied the command room...

... i had to give the order to fire tube one THREE TIMES by clicking the red fire button at the attack scope before the torpedo would actually fire!

i hit the red fire button... normally you hear a tube door open, and the torpedo fire away.

this time i hit the red fire button... waited about 20 seconds... nothing!

i hit the button again... same result.

i hit the button a third time, it finally fired the shot.

i tested with all remaining tubes.

i pressed "Q" with tube two to open the door for tube two... nothing, however on the second attempt it opened normally.

tube 2 fired normally after the door issue

tube 3 fired without incident

tube 4 took two attempts

tube 5 took two attempts

[meduza]

Once I made a test with 100% filled control room efficiency bar compared to almost 0% (no helm qualifications, single officer, ordinary sailors, all completely tired). I don't remember the figures, but the results were the same. I tested max. speed, dive and turning times.

edit:


... i had to give the order to fire tube one THREE TIMES by clicking the red fire button at the attack scope before the torpedo would actually fire!
That sounds interesting! I never testet that. It makes sense though.

[GoldenRivet]

Once I made a test with 100% filled control room efficiency bar compared to almost 0% (no helm qualifications, single officer, ordinary sailors, all completely tired). I don't remember the figures, but the results were the same. I tested max. speed, dive and turning times.

how did you get the effeciency bar in the command room anywhere close to 0%?

SH3 will not let you leave all of the helm stations empty, if you remove sailors from the helms stations it automatically replaces them with fresh sailors.

furthermore, though you can remove the weapons officer and navigator, the chief engineer must occupy the helm station for ANY order to follow through.

in short... the minimum crew you can place into the compartment is 4 individuals... this has always given me an efficiency of about 60% minimum

[meduza]

how did you get the effeciency bar in the command room anywhere close to 0%?
By making them all very tired. :DL


furthermore, though you can remove the weapons officer and navigator, the chief engineer must occupy the helm station for ANY order to follow through.


True, but you can still control the sub, even without the CE. You have to man his station yourself, and click on the dials.

[Sag75]

Hi, very interesting results..

@ GoldenRivet, so the green bar may affect the launch procedure ? Did you test periscope depth keeping during heavy sea?

[GoldenRivet]

Hi, very interesting results..

@ GoldenRivet, so the green bar may affect the launch procedure ?

yes, it would appear so


Did you test periscope depth keeping during heavy sea?


no i didnt test that

[Bent Periscope]

Great job GoldenRivet.

I owe you a beer, or more, next time we're both back from patrols.

BP

[Kubryk]

Thanks GoldenRivet, I guess many of us wanted to check this but it took a person less lazy than average to do so :)

Thanks!

[GoldenRivet]

thanks guys, it was no problem, i rather enjoyed it :salute:

its interesting though... perhaps someone could figure out a way to reduce crash dive time or something if you DO have the helmsman qualified petty officers working the controls. :hmmm:

[TarJak]

Nice work on the testing GR. Looks like the helmsman qual is a WOFTAR.

[GoldenRivet]

Nice work on the testing GR. Looks like the helmsman qual is a WOFTAR.

agreed :har:

[Sag75]

Personally, I think the GoldenRivet recorded diving times are good and reflect a 750tons submarine physic. I mean, your boat needs flooding ballast tanks and operate dive planes.. it takes a physical time! ..even in presence of the most skilled crew! you can't expect to get onboard tons of water in just one millisecond.

About the torpedo launch delay, I was surprised about that and it can be really affected by the crew skill.. so it's a good realism note by Ubi!

I'm wondering whether a skilled crew can maintain better or better stabilize the depth in rough sea... :hmmm:

[GoldenRivet]

according to some books i have read, the crew skill can make a difference.

keeping the boat level under the water comes from a combination of trim tanks and dive planes.

if your crewman is a super newbie at operating all the valves for trim tank management it can take some additional time to get the boat level and keep it there.

while i agree with you about the amount of time it takes to get 750 tons of steel motivated to dive, i do feel that crew experience and skill should make a difference of a few seconds in a crash dive situation... otherwise why practice?

if your command room crew knows exactly what to do when the alarm bell goes off vs. a crew that is experiencing a crash dive scenario for the very first time, it will likley equate to at least 5 to 10 seconds sliced off your dive time.

I also wish there was some sort of way to save another 2 seconds on dive time by moving as much crew as possible forward.

perhaps in the next version?

[Sag75]

perhaps!

About depth keeping, when I was on a IIA in '39, my green crew had always difficulties to keep the depth in a stormy weather, breaking the surface with the turret! I had a feeling when I put a more experienced crew, this holding was better.. but I'm not sure, we need to test it!

[BasilY]

I always have one helmsman-rated petty officer as well. I used my boat to train u-boat captains. The sub-lieutenants spend 4 patrols before a new patch comes in. So I always have rookie officers. But my petty officers on the other hand, are all veterans (except the few replacements forced upon me by SH3 Commander)