New Interface for Uboats [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

karamazovnew

06-09-09, 07:53 AM

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/2927/kiub.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/i/kiub.jpg/)

This mod has been included by Lurker_hlb3 in OMEGU V300 WITH Patch (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=158764), and OM Plot v402 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=158763) so make sure to download his latest versions and patches.

Optional fixes, enable them with JSGME AFTER all OMEGU mods:
- AOB wheel marks remover: http://www.filefront.com/17001559/KiUB%20AOBF%20marks%20remove.zip
(This removes the green marks that show up when you turn on the AOB finder wheel).

- AOBF and Stadimeter bright buttons: http://www.filefront.com/17001601/KiUB%20bright%20buttons.zip
(On low resolutions, these buttons can be hard to see. I've made them a bit brighter in the OFF status).

Documentation links:
http://www.filefront.com/14992013/KiUB-User-Guide.zip/
http://www.filefront.com/15351513/Manual-Targeting.zip/ this is a big one, 28 MB.

KiUB (or Kriegsmarine Interface for UBm, or "Cube" for short) is a mod that adds TDC and torpedo panels, miliradian marks and an AOB wheel to the Attack Periscope screen.
- it works for any resolution
- no optional files for different types of Uboats (only if you play Type 21 and want to see a correct salvo dial)
- doesn't affect the American Interface
- easy to customise marks and filters (details in the first documentation link)

Many thanks to all that helped me and kept me company during the 3 months it took to make. This thread is open for any question regarding the KiUB interface and the SH4 interface in general. If you make modifications to my image files (which I tried to encourage by making the files themselves as easy to change as possible) feel free to post them here and I'll update this main post, with all credit awarded to the respective modder. Since OMEGU is a big mod, it would be best to have small fixes and visual upgrades here instead of spamming Lurker for updates.

Unlike in SH3 where we had multiple options of campaigns and interfaces, Operation Monsun is THE mod to have when playing Uboats. Because of the simplicity of changing from RFB/TMO and other american side mods using JSGME, I've decided that making multiple versions of this interface for other super mods would be pointless. However anyone can integrate this into any interface (including vanilla, by using the resource files at the bottom of this page).

Making this mod has been difficult and many shortcuts had to be made. The SH4 interface has more hard coded elements and to make a mod that works on any resolution requires a good understanding of the object structure and a bit of planning. My mod should be regarded "as it is", adding new objects or moving/replacing current objects would be very difficult. While I am available for any bug reports, advice and open discussion about using and changing this mod, the main layout is final. The lessons learned are here on this thread and available to all that want to enhance the SH4 interface (and SH5, since they share the same 2d engine).

Special thanks:
- OLC, Hitman, Makman94, h.sie, Joegrundman and Mikhayl for their work with SH3 and showing us what a Sub sim interface should look like.
- again Hitman and Makman94 for their continued support with this mod
- Lurker_hlb3 for actually giving me a reason to make it :D
- the Subsim community for it's wealth of information and support for the game
- not least, the Ubisoft Romania dev team for making this game as modable as it is :)

Kit for modders: http://www.filefront.com/17110215/KiUB%20Files.zip
WARNING: this is NOT the mod itself, don't be fooled by the folder structure. DO NOT enable this in JSGME. The playable mod is already included in OMEGU.
These are all the files on which I have worked. Since the mod is integrated into OMEGU, to prevent weird situations, I'll offer them as resources here, separately. You can use, modify, integrate, do whatever you want, as long as you don't charge money (or I'll come to your door and beg for some). There's no need to ask me for permission to use them. Go ahead, have fun. A little credit would be nice, but don't bother too much with that either.

DarkFish

06-10-09, 09:06 AM

I'm working with dials too at the moment, but from what I read you know a lot more about them than I do, so I'm afraid I can't help you.
I hope you can help me out though with a small problem I've got. I need to make a clickable dial accessible from the ConningDeck view. I can get dials to display the things I want, but whatever I do I can't get them to be clickable. Do you know how to do this?
for your information, I want to do something similar as you want to do with opening 3d-hatches, but instead on the conning deck.

karamazovnew

06-11-09, 09:22 AM

Well, in the *.dat file get the id of any 3d node. Then go to the *.sim file and make sure the id isn't already used as the Parent ID of a dial node. To make the object a proper dial, just look how the Dial nodes are structured. To make the object clickable there are 2 ways. You can either make the dial itself send a command, or, better, make a new object (there are tons of these dummies on the dials which are invisible but can be clicked) and apply to it a Focusable3Dobj node which can send a command. Again, it's not rocket science, just look how it's already made on the current nodes. The deck should work the same. Let me guess you want to click on the UZO and make it show? :haha: When you want to work with a command like that, it's better to see how that command behaves in the commands.ini (or is it cfg?) file. You'll see that these commands that activate cameras also show the proper page of the 2D interface.

Rosencrantz

06-11-09, 04:29 PM

karamazovnew wrote:
Toggle_open_close_torpedo_tube: this command used to flip the switches that opened the tubes by recieving a parameter. They still work, but only for the selected tube.

How about studying TMO170 commands-file? With TMO you can open the tubes you want at the same time. Or maybe you could just replace the command-file with one from TMO and give it a try. I'm testing TMO commands right now and even it's not the perfect one for the U-boats it still works and with IX boat it's actually pretty nice.
I'm not sure if this could help you to move on with you project, but anyway... my hint is free.

-RC-

karamazovnew

06-15-09, 09:24 AM

Phew, been gone for a while. Thanks for the tip Rosen, I've been following Dulcimus' progress and he was stuck on the torp problem too. The way he solved it was to comment out all the commands except the Toggle_open_blabla one. It works for the 2D interface ofc, because you click to select a tube, then press Q to open/close it. When you select another tube, the "Close Tube" command is commented out so it doesn't close the last tube. But my problem was with the 3D objects. As I said, it's impossible for me to comment out the Close command so I will actually disable the possibility to see what tubes you have selected. You will have to look at the torpedo selector dial. It's more realistic anyway. Well, I'll put that part on hold for the moment while I iron out the Periscope interface. Comming soon :03:.

karamazovnew

08-23-09, 07:32 AM

Well, it's been a while and I have to confess I almost gave up at one point. I actually had to go back to understanding how the SH3 interface worked. After that I had to trimm down my list of features with a sledgehammer. The best I can hope for right now is a 2D interface for the Periscope screens. GWX 4 seems to have fixed a few 3D interior issues, but unless they want to share with me how they fixed it, I'm stuck on that part :oops:.
Anyway, here are a few tips I've learned. These were made by my own observations and are personal conclusions. If I'm wrong, please correct me:
- it is impossible to add clickable buttons anywhere outside the layout page (or the order bar).
- the game makes a specific check for Id's in the Menu_1024_768.ini to decide which to use in the German and which to use in the US interfaces. Moving any of these items from one page to another will result into a CTD. Parenting any item to an item outside the page will result in a "Menuid not found" error. The US side uses different pages for the TDC and PK(torpedo settings) and the Torpedo Panel. The German interface ignores those and uses the ones in the corresponding Periscope Page. Adding items to these "german" menu groups is the only way to ensure the new items will be invisible in the US interface.
- Some graphic files, the background for certain, require a hardcoded adress-change. That's why the background item points to the same file for both sides, but then you see different backgrounds. This is not based on the item ID, but on the file adress. This can be usefull if you want to integrate new items in the interface that appear on both sides, but look different. As explained above, these items must be parented to an item that does appear in both interfaces, such as the main periscope page.
- The periscope lines are hardcoded (you knew that already) as is the periscope bearing (but this one can be moved). The scaling is decided by the Angular Distance and minimum zoom level so that 1 degree at minimum zoom will always be 1 degree when using the stadimeter. The best course of action is to leave them alone and use them as they are.
- The notepad pages for the german side work just as they did in SH3. That means that each periscope page has 1 free show/hide button, but it requires care when used. The Speed/AOB/Range pages and all other items from the notepad can be parented to the main periscope page to break them free from the side movement of the notepad. That is hardcoded to only the main notepad menu group and the movement is equal to the width of the menu group.

Working with the menu.ini file is tricky and next to impossible without some tools. The first tip is to break each page you want to mod with comments. That was the first step I did altough it took me a few hours for the AP page :oops:. Adding items requires a renumbering tool. I've mad eone myself in Word, a simple macro, PM for it or use the Menu.ini Renumbering Tool here on the subsim forum (it just didn't work for me). Figuring out zone lines can be a chore. I made myself an Excel Spreadsheet that not only calculates the tricky parts, but also generates complete Pos and Zone lines. It's still a lot of manual input but beats calculating each item after you move a menu group. Again, PM for it, but remember that these are made for personal use, meaning that it might be difficult for me to explain how to make them work :har:.

And the big goodie in the next post :yeah:

karamazovnew

08-23-09, 08:04 AM

Most gave up modding the interfface because of the resolution scaling. For example, how the heck do you add an item in the middle of the screen, that STAYS in the middle of the screen even if you change resolutions and, even more, keeps it's overall screen fill ratio. Here's how it works.

EDIT: Finnaly I've got it, it's so simple....
Let's take the following example. I've added a small image, 300x300 pixels, in the exact center of the screen:

[G26 I49]
Name=Test Image
Type=1030
ItemID=0x261000011
ParentID=0x26000000
Pos=362,-234,300,300
Zone= 362 534 300 300 0(SCALE) 0(PIVOT) 0x26000000 0.5 -0.5 0x261000011 -0.5 0.5 0 0
Materials=1
Display=2
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/test.tga
Crop 0=0,0,1,1
MatFlags=0x9
TexFmt=0x0

Please note that for the image to be centered on the screen at 1024/768 resolution, the top left corner must be at X:362 and Y:234.
Now, please notice the 2 red numbers. The first one controls how the image is scaled and we will call it SCALE, and the second one controls how the item is positioned and we will call it PIVOT.

Relative Dimensions are controlled by the SCALE value:
All items have a dimension on screen that is actually controled by the first of the 2 red numbers, based on the resolution of the screen. Let's take our 300/300 pixel image as the example...
- for a value of 0, the image will always occupy 300x300 pixels on the screen. Thus, as the resolution is increased, the relative size of the image gets smaller.

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/5097/scalezero.jpg

- for a value of 1, the image is scalled uniformely by the following number Yresolution/768. So, for a resolution of 1920/1200, the image will no longer be 300/300 but 468/468 pixels (1200/768=1.5625, 1.5625*300=468). Notice that it's still a box (height=width)

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/7826/scaleone.jpg

- for a value of 2, the image is scalled unevenly on both axes. The height is multiplied by Yresolution/768, just as before, but the width is multiplied by Xresolution/1024. So, for a resolution of 1920/1200 the box will be 562/468. Note that this is no longer a box, as the width is higher than the height.

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2240/scaletwo.jpg

- for a value of 5, the image is scalled uniformely by the following number Xresolution/1024. So for a resolution of 1920/1200, the box will be 562/562. So again, a box but bigger than the one corresponding to a value of 1.

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/358/scalefive.jpg

For all 4:3 resolutions(for ex, 1024/768, 1600/1200), then the values of 2 and 5 are redundant and give the same results as a value of 1. A value of 1 ensures that the item always ocuppies the same proportion of the screen, regardless of resolution. A value of 2 is important for all menu groups that must fill the entire space of the screen. They are invisible but important, as you'll see next. Any image would be skewed if used on a non 4:3 resolution. That's why for such resolutions, like 1920/1200, you can choose if the image get's scalled "vertically"(SCALE=1) or "horizontally" (SCALE=5). Most items use a value of 1, but some, like the periscope background, actually all backgrounds, including the images you see at the loading screen, must have a value of 5 to prevent seeing black areas at the side of the screen. But, the upper and lower parts of the images will be cutoff by the screen margins. You can test this easily by switching from 1600/1200 to 1920/1200 and looking ant the periscope background. You'll see what I mean.

But what about position? That depends on the parent and it's SCALE value. Why? Remember that each item is positioned relative to it's parent. But if the parent has already been scaled, this will also be visible in the child's position. That means that as the parent is scalled, all of it's children positions will also be scaled to maintain their relative position to the parent's origin (which is always the top left corner). What does this mean for us? Well, take the main Periscope Page group for example.
[G26 I1]
Name=Page attack periscope
Type=1027;Menu page
ItemID=0x26000000
ParentID=0x0
Pos=0,0,1024,768
Zone= 0 768 1024 768 2 1 0x0 0.5 -0.5 0x26000000 -0.5 0.5 0 0
LoadingMode=2

It has scale value of 2. That means that at a resolution of 1920/1200, altough it appears to only have 1024/768, it actually is 1920/1200 pixels. All of it's children will have their top left origin scaled. That means that altough my image should be at 362 left, 234 top, it's not. It's actually at (362*1920/1024) left and (234*1200/768) top. It's at 678 left and 365 top. But that creates a problem for us. As we change the SCALE value of our item, it's dimensions change with resolution. In other words, altough it's corner doesn't move, it's center does. That's where the PIVOT is important.
- for a value of 0, the pivot of the item is the top left corner. It will not change position depending on resolution, but as the item is scaled with resolution and it's dimensions change, it's center will move.
- for a value of 1, the pivot of the item is the center. Ha? That means that the center of the item will not move, but the corner will as the item's dimensions vary with resolution.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9917/pivots.jpg

karamazovnew

08-23-09, 03:15 PM

That's all there is to it. For example i am now finishing my TDC page with 6 dials. I want them to have the same screen dimensions on all resolutions, Even more, I need them to be glued to the left of the screen. What SCALE and PIVOT values should I use? For the dials I will use a SCALE of 1 and a PIVOT of 1. Their group will need to be parented to the Main Page, and glued to the left of the screen. It's Scale will be also 1, but a pivot of 0, so it's corner will not move out of the screen as it increases it's size.

What if I want to do an AOB wheel in the center of the screen that always fills the "hole" of the lens (let's say the id for this item would be 0x261000011)? That's even simpler. I'll parent it to the main periscope page(0x26000000), since it already scales with resolution. I will try to center it on the screen for 1024/768 (that's easy, a zone line of 0x26000000 0.5 -0.5 0x261000011 -0.5 0.5 0 0 will always be at the center of the screen, no mater the size). Then I will put a SCALE of 5, and a PIVOT of 1. So it will look like this:
Zone= XXX YYY Width Height 5 1 0x26000000 0.5 -0.5 0x261000011 -0.5 0.5 0 0

While this may sound complicated, it isn't. All you need to do is decide how you want your interface to look at 1024/768, then decide which items scale up with resolution, which you want to remain at their current monitor position, and go from there. You only have a few values to work for, for both PIVOT and SCALE. Now excuse me, I need to go back to work, don't want anyone making a TDC in the periscope screens before me :)

makman94

08-23-09, 06:24 PM

karamazovnew

08-23-09, 08:34 PM

hello Karamazovnew,

wonderfull info stuff you showed us here !!

i think that sh4's gui moders should start working on these new data you discover ....maybe we will see , at last , the u-jagd tools in sh4 !!

good job ! :up:

Hey Mak :salute:. Well, You don't need to wait too much, I've done it for you. Since I don't have acces to a computer that can play SH4, I've done the following from imagination. I need you to test it for me, if it works, then you'll have your U-jagd.... I'm assuming you don't have a resolution of 1024/768, otherwise it would just be silly. If you can, please test all directly on a 16:9 resolution, the higher the better.

First, Download Mikhayl's AOBF: http://www.mediafire.com/?xbn9xydc2jl
his thread is here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=135184

Use it first as it is to see how it works. I'll tell you because I've already analysed the Menu.ini file. The AOBF is made up of 2 items, the inner and outer dials (0x26030012 and 0x26030013) parrented to the AOB menu group (0x260E0000) which holds the elements from the AOB input dial, and is in turn parented to the AOB page (0x260C0000). This page is hardcoded to appear when you click the AOB text on the notepad. That means that
- to make the AOBF appear, you must click on the AOB text
- if you close the notepad from it's handle, the AOBF will move to the right, but will not dissapear.
- you can use both items at the same time, which allows you to still enter the AOB through the notepad.
Please test all of these behaviors.

Now, open the Menu_1024_768.ini files and let's make some changes to the G26 page (the attack periscope page). Let me explain what we'll do, you don't need to understand this part, but it would help. You'll probably get it after you make the changes. There is a catch to centering the AOBF on the screen for all resolutions. A simple way would be to parent the 2 items to the main periscope page, but that will make it always visible, and we don't want that. It's parents must remain the same, BUT, as I have said in my post, for an item to be centered in the screen, it must be centered on it's parent which must act as the screen, it must already be centered on the screen and have an aspect ratio of 4:3 (or simpler, it must have 1024/768 for size, and a SCALE of 2 and PIVOT of 1). The AOB menu group (0x260E0000), the primary parent of the AOBF is just an intermediary parent, not needed, but let's ignore that for now. It's the main AOB page that holds all of the items. It's the page that appears when you click the AOB text. This MUST be our "screen". But it's already parented to the notepad. No problem, we can break that link and parent it directly to the screen. So... do a search for the green text and cpopy my red lines over the original text. Got it?

[G26 I89]
Name=Angle on bow
Type=1026;Menu group
ItemID=0x260C0000
ParentID=0x26000000
Pos=0,0,1024,768
Zone= 0 768 1024 768 2 1 0x26000000 0.5 -0.5 0x260C0000 -0.5 0.5 0 0
Color=0xFFFFFFFF

Now the AOB menu page will fill the entire screen, regardless of resolution. It is invisible, but if you start the game now, you'll see all of the items of that page all around your screen (again, you're not using 1024/768 resolution right?!). However, please note that altough, the page is now parented to the main periscope menu group, it still only appears when you click the AOB text on the notepad.
Let's do the same thing to the 0x260E0000 item, that is the direct parent of the AOBF (we could ignore it and change the parent of the AOBF, but...some other time).

[G26 I92]
Name=AOB
Type=1026;Menu group
ItemID=0x260E0000
ParentID=0x260C0000
Pos=0,0,1024,768
Zone= 0 768 1024 768 2 1 0x260C0000 0.5 -0.5 0x260E0000 -0.5 0.5 0 0
Color=0xFFFFFFFF

As you see, I've put a SCALE of 2 for these items. If you go back to the game, now you'll see the temp AOB dial all screwy too. I guess it's time to move all of these screwy items out of the way. For the following items, simply move them out of the screen by inputing a value of 2000 for their X offset (you could also comment out their Zone lines, but if they are parented in any way, it will cause a CTD, changing the offset is much safer):

[G26 I90]
[G26 I91]
[G26 I93]
[G26 I94]
[G26 I95]
[G26 I96]
[G26 I97]

for example:
[G26 I90]
Name=Angle on bow val
Type=1029;Static text
ItemID=0x260C0053
ParentID=0x260C0000
Pos=190,-212,70,16
Zone= 929 527 70 16 0 1 0x260C0000 0.655172 -0.768116 0x260C0053 0 0 2000 0
Color=0x111111FF
Font=5
Text=0
TextFlags=0x6

This will move all of these items out of the screen. Now let's deal with the AOBF itself, it's waaay down at the bottom of the periscope page. Since it will need to always fill up the hole in the background, it must behave like it too. The background item has a SCALE of 5, so we'll use it like that. We also need to center the items on the screen. Also, since Mikhayl didn't imagine that someone would try to mess up with the resolution, he made the outer dial with a display factor of 0. Even if we make the menu group behave right, the image file itself will not be scaled, so let's make sure we correct that too, by giving it a linear display type.

[G26 I150]
Name=AOBF Inner Disc
Type=1031;Stat bmp array
ItemID=0x26030012
ParentID=0x260E0000
Pos=231,-103,562,562
Zone= 231 665 562 562 5 1 0x260E0000 0.5 -0.5 0x26030012 -0.5 0.5 0 0
Materials=1
Display=5;Linear&rotation
Mat 0=data/menu/OLC/AOBFInnerDisc.tga
MatFlags=0x29
TexFmt=0x9

[G26 I151]
Name=AOBF Outer Disc
Type=1031;Stat bmp array
ItemID=0x26030013
ParentID=0x260E0000
Pos=231,-103,562,562
Zone= 231 665 562 562 5 1 0x260E0000 0.5 -0.5 0x26030013 -0.5 0.5 0 0
Materials=1
Display=2
Mat 0=data/menu/OLC/AOBFOuterDisc.tga
MatFlags=0x29
TexFmt=0x9
BmpState=1

All done. What you should now have is:
- when you click the AOB text on the notepad, the AOBF appears in the center of the screen, scaled, regardless of resolution. GOOD :up:
- if you "close" the notepad by clicking on it's handle, while the AOBF is visible, the AOBF stays where it is, in the center of the screen. GOOD. :up:
- if you want to close the AOBF, you must click the Cancel or Accept buttons on the notepad, just as before. Again, GOOD :up:
- if you want to enter AOB through the notepad, you can't, because we've moved that out of the screen. BAD, but i guess you can live with that. :down:

Now again, this was all done mentally, based on my rules. If they are correct, it should work as described. Please test this, as I am unable. Here's the modified file, just in case you have problems, simply copy it over Mikhayl's mod. http://www.filefront.com/14372713/menu_1024_768.ini

PS: btw, remember to change resolutions, all should work just fine. And try to enter a US sub. You'll see that it is completely unchanged, since all of the new items have been parented to ID's which are not used in the US interface. And for the love of god, if you reply to this message, pleeeeaaaase don't quote it, it's huge!!!!

makman94

09-06-09, 05:51 PM

hello Karamazovnew,

just a small question : your new interface is building based on OM or in stock 1.5 ??

ps: looking forward to see your mod !

lurker_hlb3

09-06-09, 09:54 PM

hello Karamazovnew,

just a small question : your new interface is building based on OM or in stock 1.5 ??

ps: looking forward to see your mod !

None of files used in this mod conflict with OM, however if you add OMEGU then you have major conflicts that would require some serious integration to get it to work.

Hitman

09-07-09, 07:11 AM

This is excellent knowledge :up:

Unfortunately, the modding of it is still too complicated for me. Otherwise I would have already ported my optics mod to SH4, and that is still the main drawback I have about using the U-Boats in SH4, I hate to target without my TDC near the scope and the ability to input all data there :damn:
SolBearing dial: You'll love this one. I've linked the ConningPeriscope cam to the periscope shaft and I've linked that to the SOlBearing dial (after exporting and reimporting to change the bloody Y axis ofc). In short every 3d object can be made into a dial and it will rotate around it's Y axis. So now, when you move the periscope the entire periscope moves, and if you go to that camera you're still sitting on the small chair :rock:. It looks awesome, as you can see the bearing of the periscope by looking up at the static part. But there's a problem. This only works when autoupdate is on. I've tried to find the values of the actual periscope bearings, unlinked, but I can't find them. Even in the 2d interface, the actual bearings that appear are not linked to a dial but hardcoded by id. Have I overlooked a detail? There should be 2 values, one for the attack periscope, and one for the obs one, actually the rotation of the cameras. And to make matters workse, I'd like to have the Obs periscope completely unlinked from the TDC. If someone can help me with this, I'll also be able to make small dials (semi transparent cones) showing the field of view of the periscope instead of the unrealistic bearings. Would be great so see these in the Binocular view too.

Any chance that this all would also work in SH3, specially what I just quoted above?? :hmmm:

karamazovnew

09-07-09, 07:28 AM

Yeap, just try it, it only takes a couple of minutes, too bad the periscope object has it's Y axis missplaced. All dials rotate on their Y axis. So you'll have to export the object in MAX, rotate it's pivot and reimport. Then break all children, rotate, and relink all children.
The new interface is coming along well. I'm still working in Maya in my very small free time on my main pc. The dials look superb, but I will have to remake all the 2D dial dds's at 2 times resolution for it to look ok. I guess that in about a week I'll have the first screenshots. Here's the main outline:

There will be no indication of TDC autoupdate on/off. Unless someone can show me how to do it, the SH4 limitation is at the moment impossible to break. There will be a TDC Autoupdate switch on the main menu bar on the periscope page, and I'll link it to the Enter button. Also no indication of which torps are selected, no clickable torp Buttons. You will need to use the torp switch dial. Okok, maybe I'll put some small bulbs to light up under the torp number label if the torp is selected.

Attack Scope
- on the right, the draggable TDC (Up) with 4 dials and AOBF (down). The AOBF will actually be doubled, one will be manual, the other linked to the stadimeter (IF, i can make the proper dial relation).
- on the left, all torpedo dials and switches (altough there is absolutely no way to indicate which torps are FAT and which not, but the dials will be there)

Obs Scope
- on the right, TDC up and Attack disk (with both faces) automated as much as possible, bearing wedge linked to bearing dial, outer dial linked to inverse course etc.
- same torps dials

Uzo
- TDC but no attack disk or AOBF, maybe some chart or small recognition manual as in ACM
- same torp dials

Screenies coming as soon as I finish the Maya part :shucks:.

karamazovnew

09-07-09, 07:33 AM

None of files used in this mod conflict with OM, however if you add OMEGU then you have major conflicts that would require some serious integration to get it to work.

Why would anyone play Uboats without the latest version of your mod? :salute:
I will start from the OMEGU files. The integration is easier that it looks, I just need to remove the FLBsales torp dial. I'll take one screen at a time, no need to hurry now...

lurker_hlb3

09-07-09, 08:40 AM

Why would anyone play Uboats without the latest version of your mod? :salute:
I will start from the OMEGU files. The integration is easier that it looks, I just need to remove the FLBsales torp dial. I'll take one screen at a time, no need to hurry now...

If you don't mind I would like to do the integration myself. Currently in the process of doing a number of changes to OM and OMEGU that would require you to do it all over again after release.

makman94

09-07-09, 09:02 AM

@Karamazovnew : for sure,this will be the best mod ever made for sh4 !

give us some pics when you are ready ! :up:

karamazovnew

09-07-09, 10:11 AM

@Lurker... for sure mate:salute:, I'll try to only work inside the german pages so it should be compatible with the us side too (I mean unchanged). I will need to create 3 versions (quite similar in fact) for 3 tube/5 tube/6 tube subs. And I'll make 2 versions of texture files, low rez for 1024x768 and a high rez one for 1600x1200. The first phase only changes the Ap, Op and Uzo pages and only uses new images so anyone can copy/paste for preety much any mod, and even vanilla. The second phase includes changes to the layout page, orders bar and commands file (I'm too used to SH3 control scheme, so I'll make 2 variants of controls). Third phase is... not very certain and includes a remake of the TDC screen, preety similar to what Mikhayl did in his ACM.

@Makman: Pics at the end of this week when I get back home. They'll be 3d-program pics, not game pics.

lurker_hlb3

09-07-09, 11:25 AM

lurker_hlb3

09-07-09, 02:49 PM

Why would anyone play Uboats without the latest version of your mod? :salute:
I will start from the OMEGU files. The integration is easier that it looks, I just need to remove the FLBs ales torp dial. I'll take one screen at a time, no need to hurry now...

integrated it into my RC1 version of OMEGU v210, as you can see I was able to keep FLBs torp dials

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/lurker_hlb3/aobf_omegu.jpg

karamazovnew

09-07-09, 02:59 PM

Was that made with my menu file info? coool :up: BTW, you've forgot to move a few items, I can still see the Angle on Bow text. Check out the steps up, I've made a perfect version but I'm not home to send it to you :(
One thing we'll really need is having the ship lengths in the manual for the fixed wire method. I've already made a mod for TMO that changed the max speed String into a length value. It's here and also has tables for the ships in TMO as an excel chart. I could play without any issues so the technique is safe http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=153143. Actually a better string would be for example "MaxSpeed= 155 Max 35kts". Should fit inside the manual.
The AOBF is useless without ship lengths so, until I finish my bloody interface (which will have a very different AOBF) maybe you can merge this idea to into OM. Would save me a whole bunch of time :D

lurker_hlb3

09-07-09, 03:25 PM

karamazovnew

09-07-09, 03:30 PM

I also added lengths in the Names.cfg file, before making that mod, but it messed up the Captain's log. I advice against it. Changing the individual ship cfg files seems safer.

lurker_hlb3

09-07-09, 03:39 PM

I also added lengths in the Names.cfg file, before making that mod, but it messed up the Captain's log. I advice against it. Changing the individual ship cfg files seems safer.

Roger your last,

Will use this

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=153143

FYI

"I can still see the Angle on Bow text"

Using your .ini from post# 10 on top of the original AOBF, see the same result.

karamazovnew

09-07-09, 03:47 PM

I might've forgotten to do this part... I was working blind from this very laptop which can't play sh4... :wah:

I guess it's time to move all of these screwy items out of the way. For the following items, simply move them out of the screen by inputing a value of 2000 for their X offset (you could also comment out their Zone lines, but if they are parented in any way, it will cause a CTD, changing the offset is much safer):

[G26 I90]
[G26 I91]
[G26 I93]
[G26 I94]
[G26 I95]
[G26 I96]
[G26 I97]

for example:
[G26 I90]
Name=Angle on bow val
Type=1029;Static text
ItemID=0x260C0053
ParentID=0x260C0000
Pos=190,-212,70,16
Zone= 929 527 70 16 0 1 0x260C0000 0.655172 -0.768116 0x260C0053 0 0 2000 0
Color=0x111111FF
Font=5
Text=0
TextFlags=0x6

This will move all of these items out of the screen.

lurker_hlb3

09-07-09, 04:02 PM

I might've forgotten to do this part... I was working blind from this very laptop which can't play sh4... :wah:

That works however the word "angle on the bow" is still on the lower left corner, but the number value that was on the lower right is now gone

karamazovnew

09-07-09, 04:20 PM

Right now I bet you wish you had my menu.ini file. It has huge comments separating each notepad page :har:. The Angle on bow label should be one of those items. Maybe I89?

lurker_hlb3

09-07-09, 04:24 PM

Right now I bet you wish you had my menu.ini file. It has huge comments separating each notepad page :har:. The Angle on bow label should be one of those items. Maybe I89?

This is what I currently have

[G26 I89]
Name=Angle on bow
Type=1026;Menu group
ItemID=0x260C0000
ParentID=0x26000000
Pos=0,0,1024,768
Zone= 0 768 1024 768 2 1 0x26000000 0.5 -0.5 0x260C0000 -0.5 0.5 0 0
Color=0xFFFFFFFF

karamazovnew

09-07-09, 04:36 PM

lurker_hlb3

09-07-09, 05:15 PM

hmm, no, that's the big invisible group that holds all the items. If you change that, the wheel will change too. As I said I don't have SH4 here so I can't be much help. But... here's an idea...
Some items have a Text=xxx line. If it's Text=0, then that item is hardcoded (for example, the AOB value). But one of them (or more) should have something like Text=2235. Go to the menu.txt file and search for that number. One of them should show xxx=ANGLE ON BOW. That's the item you're looking for.

This is the only one that matches one of the three entries in the menu.txt fie

[G26 I114]
Name=Angle on bow
Type=1032;Button
ItemID=0x26040043
ParentID=0x26040000
Pos=33,-153,130,16
Zone= 772 586 130 16 0 1 0x26040000 0.113793 -0.554348 0x26040043 0 0 0 0
Color=0xFFFFFF00
Materials=4
Display=0;No stretch
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/layout/bkgr.tga
Mat 1=data/menu/gui/layout/bkgr.tga
Mat 2=data/menu/gui/layout/bkgr.tga
Mat 3=data/menu/gui/layout/bkgr.tga
MatFlags=0x1
TexFmt=0x0
Font=5
Text=2003
TextFlags=0x4
StatesColors=0x111111FF, 0x111111FF, 0x774411FF, 0x774411FF

karamazovnew

09-07-09, 05:27 PM

That must be the one, try offseting it by 2000 :woot:

makman94

09-07-09, 05:36 PM

very nice....the volcano is ...shaking !!! :DL

lurker_hlb3

09-07-09, 06:31 PM

That must be the one, try offseting it by 2000 :woot:

I'll try it later. I'm on my laptop now, and like you can't test it right now.

karamazovnew

09-14-09, 09:40 PM

Sorry for the wait. Here's 2 teaser renders. Still a lot of work to go... but at least now I'm home so it shouldn't take too long :haha: There's no Auto TDC update bulb because I can't find a way for it to work in the Periscope view. I need to add one on the Layout page :wah: After I make the rest of the layout, I think I'll stretch this TDC panel a bit to add a ShipID label and Siemens Text.

Perspective shot:
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/153/tdcq.th.jpg (http://img42.imageshack.us/i/tdcq.jpg/)

Ortographic shot:
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6804/tdc2.th.jpg (http://img225.imageshack.us/i/tdc2.jpg/)

Don't complain about the lights and materials. They're just for test....
More pics coming as soon as I finish the Torpedo Panel. At least at first I will ignore the FAT settings but I will include them in the final release.

Hitman

09-15-09, 08:39 AM

Oh BTW ...

Now that I see those pictures I must comment something I found out some time ago before it is too late :oops:

The TDC dials have probably been wrong for german subs since SH3 :damn: Apparently the TDC was not completely understood or correctly copied by the Devs in their visit to U-995 (May be because it was disarmed?) but a recent trip by a friend from mine provided me very good hi-res pictures and I could confirm thanks to them the problem.

The dial used in SH3 and SH4 for "Bearing" is actually the track angle dial, i.e. the dial which shows the expected angle at which the torpedo will hit against the target. Hence its division in red/green half-circles and most important, 0-180 degrees on both sides (Instead of 0-360º, as you see the bearing divided in all other views)

The correct dial for bearing is the one with black background, divided in 0-360º, and with another dial above that is the vernier (Indicates 0-10 degrees with each rotation for each 10 degree increment in the main bearing dial). Note how the lower dial has 0-360º in 10 degree increments, while the one above has the scale divided in 0-10.

The correct dial for Angle on the Bow is therefore the one used in SH3-4 for bearing :damn:, because as you can see it is also divided in red/green parts and 0-180 scales, not a single 0-360º one. The wording "Bug links" and "Bug rechts" means actually "Bow left" and "Bow right", i.e. which of its sides the TARGET is presenting. The inner dial, with red and green numbers is actually the vernier for that AOB, indicating each degree.

Here is a picture of the TDC with the labels for the correct dials:

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/2455/15atorpedorechnerg.jpg

karamazovnew

09-15-09, 12:34 PM

Thanks Hitman.
:hmmm: so.. there is no AOB 10's dial but that's not a problem, I'll just make a dial value of 0t o 3600 for a real value of 0 to 360. We also have the track angle thanks to the US subs, not sure if it works for german. Not exactly sure why we need 2 dials to show the bearing when we have it on the periscope, but fine, i'll get right on it. The only problem is that I'll go too much down. I wanted to reserve that space for the AOBF. It would've been important to have it in the main Notepad page because I could put another in the Stadimeter page and have a manual input/automatic input AOBF. Wpuld've been cool. :cry: I'll try to put the manual one in the AOB page and the automatic one with stadimeter in the Range Page. But it will be more tricky. Another ideea wuld be to just not put the Torpedo Settings in the Periscope screens and just leave them on the Attack Screen. How does that sound?

Oh IMPORTANT: what are the german words for Track angle and Bearing?

Hitman

09-15-09, 12:41 PM

Not exactly sure why we need 2 dials to show the bearing when we have it on the periscope

It served for checking that the TDC was actually following correctly the input of the scope with no error. Since the TDC needs to take into account target bearing for the caluclation of the shooting angle, it was also not difficult to display it also.

what are the german words for Track angle and Bearing?

Track Angle: Schneidungswinkel

Bearing: Peilung

Hitman

09-15-09, 12:49 PM

The only problem is that I'll go too much down. I wanted to reserve that space for the AOBF

Why so? I think it is more important to have a good slide-out TDC that allows all necessary settings and shows the proper results. Then you could put in a separate slide out panel the torpedo settings and the tube selector and fire button.

Personally, I do never use the notepad because it is an unrealistic and too long/complicate system of targetting. Ideally you should have a dial that allows direct input of mast heigth like in the US interface, and that's all.

Having to browse through the recognition manual until you find a match before you can send it to the TDC is absurd!

karamazovnew

09-15-09, 12:55 PM

Well, the main idea of this mod is, as in OLC and ACM for SH3, to burn the notepad :haha:. But the aobf is important for that.... And I still haven't figured out a proper place for it. One possibility is to just have it displayed constantly in the center of the screen, surrounding the periscope hole.

Hitman

09-15-09, 02:35 PM

One possibility is to just have it displayed constantly in the center of the screen, surrounding the periscope hole.

Noooooooo make it optional at most! :wah:

The AOB finder is a great tool, but its utility is greatly reduced when it is not automatically linked to the stadimeter. I have moved on to other (historical) periscope layouts and am happy with them :yeah:

Hitman

09-15-09, 02:49 PM

BTW is the TDC panel linked to the periscope stations, or to the tool bar? I would prefer it linked to the tool bar because A) Makes programming easier, as you don't have to add it to several stations, and B) Is available everywhere.

One more thing, I see you created a 3D model, but I thought it was just 2D in the menus. Looking at the second picture however, I see SHADOWS :o, is the TDC 3D or 2D?

karamazovnew

09-15-09, 03:04 PM

Yes, almost forgot about that :haha:. Iin the first stage they'll sit on the AP page, but after I test them, they will sit on the Layout page. I guess I'll link them to the dials switches, just as OLC did. We'll see then.
Yes it's 3D but only because I'm not good at photoshop :haha:. It will be converted to tga's. Even Blender can render them on layers so that ain't a problem. Some items will give the illusion of perspective while others will not (the dials). The shadows of movable objects like the needles will also be dials themselves and will move with the objects. The result will not be correct but it's better than no shadows at all. :up:

Now back to work... The track dial works for Uboats, but unfortunately I can't find a way to link the AOB to the course. The PK did that for fleetboats and there's no way I can use that.

makman94

09-16-09, 07:19 AM

@ Karamazovnew: just saw your pics ! just amazing! keep up ! :up:
@Hitman: what is the track angle ? i mean which angle this dial is showing?

Hitman

09-16-09, 07:38 AM

what is the track angle ? i mean which angle this dial is showing? The angle at which the torpedo will impact in the target. It actually is not exactly the track angle as measured in the US Navy, but the concept is the same:

FOR THE US NAVY SUBMARINES: (Taken from the torpedo fire control manual, 1950)

138. TORPEDO TRACK ANGLE:
The angle at the point of intercept between the target ships course and the reverse of the torpedo's course, measured to port or starboard of the target's bow. Symbol: TTa.

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/1892/pg0112a.jpg

FOR THE GERMAN KRIEGSMARINE U-BOATS: (From J. Brennecke's book "U-Boots II 1943-1945: Die Gejagten")

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/2154/clipimage001tl.jpg

The difference, as you can see, is that the US Navy measures the external part of the intersect angle, while the german Kriegsmarine measures the internal part. Both are however referring to the same corner of the triangle.

makman94

09-16-09, 08:05 AM

what is confusing me is that speed dial is set at 0.according to the settings of other dials(bearing-aob) the track angle must show 45 or 135 degrees ( us or german).probably the dials at picture seem to be messed...

Hitman

09-16-09, 09:23 AM

If you mean the TDC picture I posted, then yes all dials are messed (No wonder, as most of U-995 is nowadays smashed and harrassed, f.e. the observation scope in the control room)

But I have hi-res pictures of the cover which was removed from that TDC, and the lettering there (Plus crossing information with other sources) shows clearly which dial is what. Also, it is worth mentioning that not all TDCs had the same layout, there was at least a vertical (For Type IX U-Boats) and a horizontal (For Type II & VII) version, and I have seen versions with the same dials placed in different parts in some pictures.

Hitman

09-16-09, 09:32 AM

Correction: I just double checked the pictures mentioned, and the term used in U-995s TDC is "Auftreffwinkel", i.e. "Angle of impact"

It's obviously even clearer with that naming what the dial displays :D, and clearly synonimous to "Schneidungswinkel"

makman94

09-16-09, 12:06 PM

.....But I have hi-res pictures of the cover which was removed from that TDC, and the lettering there (Plus crossing information with other sources) shows clearly which dial is what.....

thank you Hitman for the infos. it will be nice if you upload these pictures !!

karamazovnew

09-16-09, 06:25 PM

OK... how about now :D, I've put Vernier dials for the Bearing (vertical) and Gyro (lower horizontal).

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/7454/tdc.th.jpg (http://img147.imageshack.us/i/tdc.jpg/)

By the way, I need names for all the dials, for TDC and torpedo settings, and I'd rather have them short, because of lack of space. Can someone provide me a complete list?
-AOB
-Track Angle
-Bearing
-Gyro
-Range
-Speed
-Torpedo Depth
-Torpedo Speed
-Torpedo Pistol
-Straight run (for Fat)
-Pattern direction(for Fat)
-Single Torpedo Selector
-Salvo Torpedo Selector

Hitman

09-17-09, 06:58 AM

Man this is fantastic!!! :yeah:If you manage to do it, I will have to forget about SH3 and switch to SH4 also for playing german side :D

it will be nice if you upload these pictures !!Unfortunately, my friend doesn't want to make his pictures public, as he is preparing a book with them and many more. I just got them to collaborate in translating the terms, but you might eventually find more pictures of the TDC around the web, it's in public display in the museum :yep:

OK... how about now :D, I've put Vernier dials for the Bearing (vertical) and Gyro (lower horizontal). Looks great, but the vernier for bearing probably is not necessary. The place could be used for another dial if needed.

For your reference, this is how the vertical TDC installed in U-505 looks like:

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/6979/u505tdc.jpg

By the way, I need names for all the dials, for TDC and torpedo settings, and I'd rather have them short, because of lack of space. Can someone provide me a complete list? Here you go (Added in brackets the abreviatures in therminology used in KM books I have seen or simply made by me):

-AOB: GegnerLage (Short: Lage)
-Track Angle: Autreffwinkel (ATreff-W)
-Bearing: Peilung
-Gyro: GA-Winkel
-Range: Schussentfernung (Short: E)
-Speed: Gegnerfahrt (Short: "G-Fahrt" or even "vg")
-Torpedo Speed: Torpedo Geschwindigkeit (Short: T-Geschw. or "vt")
-Salvo Spread: Streuwinkel

These are no longer in the TDC:

-Torpedo Depth: Torpedo Tiefe
-Torpedo Pistol: Torpedo Pistole
-Straight run (for Fat): Geradelauf
-Pattern direction(for Fat): Probably "Richtungsänderung", must check it.
-Single Torpedo Selector: Einzelschuss
-Salvo Torpedo Selector: Salvenschuss

karamazovnew

09-19-09, 02:22 PM

Thanks Hitman :up:

Now here's the final layout:
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7454/tdc.th.jpg (http://img401.imageshack.us/i/tdc.jpg/)

The Autoupdate button will sit in the dounded part of the Bearing dial group. Since the FATs don't allow you to set the pattern angle and pattern leg, they're out. I've modeled the Straight Run as a dial but the Pattern direction only allows for 90 port and 90 starboard angles by default, so I've modeled it as a switch (the one sith red and green).
Tomorrow I'll deal with finishing touches, materials and lights.

Hitman

09-19-09, 04:08 PM

Ohhh WOW now that looks pretty good!! :up:

If the lettering "Auftreff-W" instead of "ATreff-W" fits in that label, it would be even better :D

The lower dials would do good with a "G-A Winkel" label :yep:, and the two leftmost ones with a suared box around, not a curved one, but this is pure nit-picking :shucks:

I like the metallic texture of the TDC a lot, can you make it available?

karamazovnew

09-19-09, 06:34 PM

Noted on the Autreff, it fits very well.
I will not put a label for the gyroangle, but I'll extend the panel down a bit and fit in a nice Siemens 3d label.
The rounded bearing group will feature the AutoUpdate button (bulb), so it must stay as it is, as I don't have any other place for it (you can see it in the pic below, but it's not modeled yet).

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/6804/tdc2.th.jpg (http://img529.imageshack.us/i/tdc2.jpg/)

The track angle dial has had it's glass removed. There's a small difference between it's sides and the other dials sides. If you look close enough you can even see the light bulbs on each dial (2 of them for each). Yeah, I know, I'm crazy.
There is no texture in that image. The metal material of the panel is a generic material with a Granite noise map added. The white marks on the dials are not textures, but polygons. Yes, each dial consists of a LOT of polygons; the bearing dial alone has 180 cap sections, if I remember correctly. But it allowed me to input very precise angles on them, and they look perfect at any resolution (altough at close range you can see the lines become bigger as they get to the rim, easy to fix but there's no reason). I know I could've made textures in Illustrator but even thogh I own about 4 versions of it (and 8 photoshops including a floppy disk 2.5 version), I've never learned it :haha:.The final images that the game will use will be 1200x1200 pixels compared to the current 768x768 that the game uses. It will look great for high resolutions, but I'll need to alter the text on a few dials to make them visible at lower resolutions. So the final mod will have them as an option. Also, there's no way I can dinamically check the number of torpedo tubes of the sub, so I'll make variants for 3/5/6 tube subs. I'll also throw in very big clean dials for refference along with my Office macros used for positioning.

One problem I ran into are the switches on the non circular torpedo dials (the speed/detonator/selection). I had hoped to find a way to link each position to a different image, but I didn't :damn:. I'll need to be carefull about their highlights, otherwise their rotation will look weird in the game (as the original ones do :O:). Shadows will be offset dials that will rotate with the needles to create the moving shadow illusion.

Anyway, this is just the first part, but I'll implement them into the game asap. After that I'll need to rework the entire layout page (order bar), just as OLC did. Only then can I go back to cleaning up the scope screens, making new backgrounds for them and making an AOBF and Attack Disk :wah: I can't wait to finish it, me wanna play :oops:

Hitman

09-20-09, 02:51 AM

Noted on the Autreff, it fits very wellIt's "Auftreff", with an additional "f" behind the "Au" :D

On the Torpedo controls panel I see a switch labelled "Fahrt" --> If this refers to the Torpedo speed then it should be "Torpedo Geschwindigkeit" or in short form "T-Geschw."

Also, the AOB dial reads "Lage" which is correct, but if it would fit in the label, the term "Gegnerlage" would be even better.

I'll make variants for 3/5/6 tube subsRemember to make also a two tube version for the Type XXIII :shucks:

It's a pity that you can't keep the 3D TDC instead of the 2D, it looks gorgeous. But I'm sure it will also look fantastic in the game.

Looking forward to see it all working!:yeah:

makman94

09-20-09, 03:26 AM

i knew it that this would be the best mod for u-boats !
looking forward for this too!
congratulations Karamazovnew !! :up::up:

karamazovnew

09-20-09, 09:43 AM

Roger on that Hitman, but the AOB must remain Lage or the label overlaps the blue button. Will deal with the rest.
Thanks Makman :up: however so far it's only been a 3d project. Soon it will be a mod :haha:

Wilcke

09-21-09, 10:21 AM

Excellent work! This will be a fine addition to SH4!

Hitman

09-21-09, 11:43 AM

the AOB must remain Lage or the label overlaps the blue button

Can't you put the blue button to the left of the "Entfernung" label? Seems to have some space there and it would allow you to have a more correct shape of the Gyro Angle dial hole and the big label for "Gegnerlage" :hmmm:

P.D. in the real TDC the blue lamp was lit when the TDC was set as "Lage folgend" i.e. when moving scope or UZO would update the tdc. But it was just a lamp, the TDC was connected/disconnected from the scopes-uzo with a lever on its side. :up:

karamazovnew

09-21-09, 01:18 PM

I'll see how it looks.. updated pics tomorrow with final 3d version, was too tired to do some meaningful work today :wah:. After that I can finnaly get back to my "beloved" menu.ini file :haha:

karamazovnew

09-23-09, 05:06 PM

Well, I'm moving to the second phase of smashing to pieces the images in Photoshop so I thought you might like to see the current state of the TDC. This was a 10 minute render (not bad) and shows the exact perspective that will be present in the game. I'm not exactly sure what color the metal should have. I can't leave it greenish grey, but having it reflect compelte red lights will make it look weird... Any opinions?

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/2015/tdcfinal.th.jpg (http://img186.imageshack.us/i/tdcfinal.jpg/)

Hitman

09-24-09, 08:02 AM

Hummm did you forget the screenshots? I can't see anything in your post :hmmm:

karamazovnew

09-24-09, 10:57 AM

Strange... must've been deleted when the site fell down.
Here it is:
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/2015/tdcfinal.th.jpg (http://img225.imageshack.us/i/tdcfinal.jpg/)

Quick Update... Unfortunately i've hit a MAJOR setback today. I had expected to be able to use the toggle buttons for the Depth/Speed(telegraph)/Course(rudder) dials or, in case that failed, the FBAC levels radio buttons. But unfortunately those are so heavily hardcoded that after spending a frustrating day trying to make a simple menu group appear at a certain position, I've given up. The rules I've found about resolution scaling worked, but those items are so horridly palced inside groups, inside other groups, inside other groups, that to make them scalable would completely mess the entire bottom bar. Even more, the 3 dials in the order bar are hardcoded to increase in size even when you mouse over the "switch back" button. And the coup de grace was that the FBAC level dials which were there, were actually leftovers from silent hunter 3 and completely unusable. The corresponding dials that you see in the dials.cfg file are false. The game uses only 1 single item to show the fuel/co2/air/battery levels and switches between them by altering the formula of that item, not by switching between different items.

This is indeed a setback because not only do I now need to place the panels in each periscope screen, but also now there's no way to make the autoupdate button work. It will still be avalaible as a key command and order button but there will be no indication on the panel itself :(.

Hitman

09-24-09, 12:40 PM

Mmmmm you will not need to put it in every screen if you tie it to the menu bar. And you also won't need a button to have it appear if you make it simply a slide-out item :yep: -if that's possible at all, that is :-?

karamazovnew

09-24-09, 12:57 PM

If I make it a slideout it dissapears when the mouse leaves the "catch" zone... but I'll try o see if there's a way :hmmm:, thanks, forgot about slideouts.

makman94

09-24-09, 04:01 PM

.....dragable ....maybe...:hmmm: (i don't know if this is ...possible at sh4)
look at ''manos dragable tdc panel ''
it also have an update toggle button but i have 'moved' it away of screen becuase i never managed to activate it . in my own version i had add the command 'ctrl+T' to toggle the tdc panel .also it is showing at every screen and you save much room in your main optics screen to do whatever else you want ! if it possible to be done at sh4 ...i think it is a solution that must be considered
@Hitman: if this panel is slideout the main disavantage is that you can not always look at the updating bearing -aob dials when moving the scope

karamazovnew

09-24-09, 05:46 PM

makman94

09-24-09, 06:58 PM

Thanks makman but it can't work. Your mod is for SH3 and all the rules have changed... Apparently the only solution is to have it in all periscope pages... I even tried to make a NEW page, but it didn't load for the germans :wah:

then ....just an idea....if you can make it slideout then you can rearrange the dials on the panel and make it ,when it slides back, to stop in a position that only the bearing and aob dials to be visible .you think slideout option is possible?

Hitman

09-25-09, 06:52 AM

Apparently the only solution is to have it in all periscope pages

I did that in SH3 with my mod and it's not that much work, because I simply used the replace function to change the proper values for observation scope and uzo. The main problem you will have, however, is that you will need to move and resize the scope view, as otherwise the TDC will not fit to the right; it would cover a part of the lense.

karamazovnew

10-06-09, 06:09 AM

Good news. After a week of wasting time I've managed to integrate the tdc into the attack periscope screen. It sits on the notepad so it can be hidden from view. All dials work great, I just hope I can find a way to create an AutoTDC button on it, but I have not had any success so far. By the way, untill I have ALL the items in place, I won't bother with making the thing look pretty (colors, contrast, scratches, chiped paint, glass blur etc.)
Here's a 1920x1200 game screenshot. The image files used are actually calibrated for this size so there's no scaling of the images. They look best at this particular resolution (or 1600x1200).
http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/2696/highrez.th.jpg (http://img2.imageshack.us/i/highrez.jpg/)

And here's a screenshot at 1024x768. The relative sizes are the same as for 1600:1200. As you can see it only takes up as much space as the notepad did. The scope view is not obstructed too much. The vernier dials eliminated the need for a low rez version of the mod. The game does a better job at rescaling the files than photoshop can do :yeah:

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/6088/lowrez.th.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/i/lowrez.jpg/)

And just in case you didn't believe me, here's a screenshot after I've hidden the panel. (no, I haven't changed the "handle" image yet)

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4169/lowrezoff.th.jpg (http://img11.imageshack.us/i/lowrezoff.jpg/)

So, after I put in the static highlights overlay and the fake dials for the moving shadows and eliminate any possibility of a autoupdate button, I'll post a ready to use alpha version for all to play with untill I put in the torpedo panel.

Tomi_099

10-06-09, 09:22 AM

:yeah: RESPECT !! :salute:
A lot of work!

my friend

karamazovnew

10-06-09, 10:06 AM

Thanks Tomi, it's not that much work but I need to be veery careful on each step.

Now here's a question: has anyone managed to create a working button in the Periscope screens? Here's what I've found so far.
I've stated multiple times before that the commands.cfg files no longer links commands to interface items. I was wrong. That file works exactly the same as in SH3. In both, you can only link commands to items in the layout page (G3F). For example:

[Cmd194]
Name=Periscope_depth
Ctxt=1
MnID=0x3F050009
Str=1032
Key0=0x50,C,"P"

I have managed to make a working button in the layout page by simply copying a working button (the unused pause button). In red is the neccesary part for receiving the command and in green are "useless" parts. As you can see there's no need for BmpState or other lines that were used for BmpArrays(dials). From what I just tested, any other combination, any other type of item will no longer accept commands from the cfg file.
[G3F I412]
Name=Pause
Type=1032;Button
ItemID=0x3F030FFF
ParentID=0x3F000000
Pos=309,0,100,100
Zone= 309 768 100 100 1 1 0x3F000000 1 0 0x3F030FFF 0 0 0 0
Color=0xFFFFFF32
Materials=4
Display=2;Linear
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/layout/bkgr.tga
Mat 1=data/menu/gui/layout/bkgr.tga
Mat 2=data/menu/gui/layout/bkgr.tga
Mat 3=data/menu/gui/layout/bkgr.tga
MatFlags=0x1
TexFmt=0x0
Font=4
Text=2708
TextFlags=0x1
StatesColors=0xB0B0B0FF, 0xAAAAAAFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFF00FF
ToolTipText=2210
ToolTipBox=0x3F01000E, 0x0

So I've tried to parent the item to the notepad. But the game screamed at me that it can't find that id. So then I tried to just use the notepad as a position parent. That screwed the position, I can't seem to place any item above the middle of the screen and of course, the button doesn't move with the TDC (notepad). I've placed the item in the periscope page (but kept it's id), the button is placed correctly but it doesn't recieve the command. So... case closed. Yes I can mimic what OLC did and put the Autoupdate button in the layout page, but it will be easier to just make an Order button in the Periscope Page of the Order Bar. Too bad :( the only reminder that the autoupdate is on/off will be the clicking sounds when you move the periscope (and the order button itself).

Hitman

10-06-09, 11:33 AM

Excellent work :yeah:

A good reason to switch finally to SH4 for U-Boats :D

Jaeger

10-06-09, 03:13 PM

very nice, karamasovjev,

bring it on! looks very promising, i am waiting for this for a long time. i am still playing the american part in tmo but it looks like the german side will be playable and exciting the coming days.... keep up the good work and stay on it when you get difficulties...

damn good work. remember, the map and the persicope are the most important stations in a subsim...

Jaeger

Wilcke

10-06-09, 03:52 PM

We are waiting patiently. Question, how are the dials going to scale on 1920 by 1080 wide screen lcd?

Thanks for all of your hard work there!

Rockin Robbins

10-06-09, 04:02 PM

Man, people sure like the ship's length crossing the wire method of determining speed! I haven't read a single instance of that being used in real life. Why? They didn't know ships' lengths! Most of the time either they could not identify what they were shooting at or misidentified it, completely invalidating the use of the method.

There is slightly more justification for using it in U-Boats, as there were scads of nearly identical Liberty Ships all over the Atlantic and the Germans MAY have known what their length was.

Can someone come up with a historical reference to any captain routinely using that method during the war?

lurker_hlb3

10-06-09, 05:03 PM

Good news. After a week of wasting time I've managed to integrate the tdc into the attack periscope screen.

Well done Sir. Well Done (BZ)

When do you thing that it will be ready for "prime time".

With your permission I would like to integrate this into OMEGU as soon as you think it is ready

Carotio

10-06-09, 05:23 PM

I just hope I can find a way to create an AutoTDC button on it, but I have not had any success so far.

I did that for my version, which I failed to ever release, because I wanted to create a button for open/close torpedo doors and never found the time to do it.
My last update post here at subsim:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=900586&postcount=39

The auto/manual thing does work 99% of the time. :yep:
That little green/yellow button you can see...

If I can manage to find the time to find notes or anything regarding how to, I'll be glad to send it to you.
I like that you have made it possible to hide the dials in the left side. Mine is attached to the lower right panel, where you choose torpedo tubes.

makman94

10-06-09, 06:52 PM

makman94

10-06-09, 07:00 PM

congratulations Karamazovnew !
the panel is very nice !! are the u-jagd tools going to be included in your project ??
ps: i wish Carotio's button to work ,if yes....it will be just perfect !

keep up !! :up:

karamazovnew

10-06-09, 07:32 PM

@RR
This isn't just about the fixed wire... I'm testing the mod on a save game where i have a ship in perfect position at less than 2000m in light fog and I can't shoot it because the stadimeter doesn't work.... So I don't know the speed and I don't know the range... And anyway, I've already explained why I think you're wrong here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1134487&postcount=17

@Carotio.
Hmm.. I'm really interested in your mod. Where can I find it?

@Makman
Well, to know what to expect....
Phase 1 (should be ready tomorrow, I'll post it as beta test :P): TDC to AP screen
Phase 2: Torpedo Settings and fire control to AP screen
Phase 3: Make the peri a bit smaller and replace the markings file, background and depth meter
Phase 4: Ujagd tool in AP screen (I'll also keep the stadimeter but only for visual refference)
Phase 5: Ship Lenghts in recognition manual
Phase 6: Uzo Screen
Phase 7: Obs Scope Screen

Right now I'm adding shadows to the dials... reaaally hard but it's worth the effort.

Carotio

10-06-09, 07:43 PM

@Carotio.
Hmm.. I'm really interested in your mod. Where can I find it?

Nowhere, read my post above. I never released it because I still had more work, I wanted to do.
But I may do it one of the days soon. Then you can have a look at it...

karamazovnew

10-06-09, 07:46 PM

I'm only interested in the block of code for the Autoupdate button (menu.ini and commands.cfg sections). :03: Don't you have that already? This mod is anyway far from finished :wah:

PS: important question for everybody. I've put the TDC on the left and the Torpedoes on the right because both panels have preety much the same layout as the real thing and it's very comfortable to use (ergonomy wise). But now I'm beginning to reconsider since the TDC obstructs the vertical marks on the periscope. I can mirror them to the other side but I want to know NOW how you prefer it because I'd rather not move 100 items after :D

karamazovnew

10-07-09, 05:52 AM

Carotio, I'm impressed, I've never thought of using a dial as a means to input a command that has nothing to do with that dial :haha:. I've used the indications on FLB Sales' thread and managed to make a working button. But I've hit the same problem as you. Since the command doesn't affect the dial itself, it will never move :hmmm:. So... while being struck by lightning, I came up with the next:

(I've used the torpedo pistol graphics for this one, but that doesn't mater, it's just a dial group with a "val" and "dial" in it)
[Dial98]
Name=Autoupdate; Carotio`s Torpedo Dials, Auto-Manuel Peri
Type=56; Toggle_TDC_autoupdate
Cmd=Radar_toggle_sweep_focus
Dial=0x260FF902
CrtVal=0x260FF901
NewVal=0x0
DialVal=-45,45
RealVal=0,1; 0-auto or 1-manuel
Circular=Yes
SndStep=1
SndList=2,Menu.TDC.TorpedoSalvo_T,0.1,Menu.TDC.Tor pedoSalvo_S,1,

[Dial99]
Name=Autoupdate; Carotio`s Torpedo Dials, Auto-Manuel Peri
Type=56; Toggle_TDC_autoupdate
Cmd=Toggle_TDC_autoupdate
Dial=0x260FF902
CrtVal=0x260FF901
NewVal=0x0
DialVal=-45,45
RealVal=0,1; 0-auto or 1-manuel
Circular=Yes

There are 2 dials on top of eachother. Both are clicked at the same time. The first will toggle the radar sweep, the second will toggle the autoupdate. In short, it works even if you don't have a radar, or if you're underwater. I've tried the same thing using the Radar Range dial but that only worked if you actually had a radar :haha: bastards.

Carotio

10-07-09, 06:14 AM

I have totally forgotten that I wrote in the thread what I did :D
Yes, there really is no need for a dial graphic, since it doesn't move, as long as the user can just click on the graphic as if it was a button.
Well, I hope you can do it with that info then...

karamazovnew

10-07-09, 06:22 AM

Hitman

10-07-09, 08:41 AM

I haven't read a single instance of that being used in real life. Why? They didn't know ships' lengths! Most of the time either they could not identify what they were shooting at or misidentified it, completely invalidating the use of the method.

There is slightly more justification for using it in U-Boats, as there were scads of nearly identical Liberty Ships all over the Atlantic and the Germans MAY have known what their length was.

Can someone come up with a historical reference to any captain routinely using that method during the war?

The method was widely used in U-Boats, not in US submarines. In the interwar period, several makes of periscopes (US, british and german) offered models with the fixed line feature, which was actually a different wire, free from the main periscope shaft and coupled to the compass so that when moving the periscope it would stay in the true bearing it had been set (This allows to reduce the effect of own ship speed in the measuring). On surface attacks it was used with the UZO -which only had a vertical line in the crosshair- easily because the U-Boats favoured the dog leg approach, and constantly pointing the bow to the enemy is the best way to use it.

Paragraph 105.e) of the U-Boat commander's Hanbook: "In every submarine attack, whether by day or by night, the attempt must be made to obtain reliable data for aiming (controlling) the torpedo, ... measuring the deflection with the aid of the line ..."

The size of enemy ships was estimated by the commander or IWO, once you have some practice it isn't that difficult and errors of -/+ 15 metres are not much relevant.

I included this method in the tutorial for firing solutions -as well as the aspect ratio- despite both being used in U-Boats because they are by far easier to do in the game and by one single person than plotting -which is what the us submarines crews did to gather target data-. Not coincidentally, because in the U-Boat the captain (Or IWO) worked it all himself out, whereas the US commander had the assitence of the whole tracking party and the TDC operator. Since we are alone when playing, the U-Boat method suits us better IMO.

CHeers

karamazovnew

10-07-09, 08:56 AM

I don't think you understood my last post, the dials moves :haha:. That's because the same item sends 2 commands (through 2 dials). One changes the graphic dial (by changing the radar mode) and the other autoupdates the tdc :yeah:. Ofc it's a dirty fix but on the other hand:
1. who uses radar?!
2. who uses radar underwater?!
3. who uses radar while setting the tdc?!

Ok new info... The above aproach is not bad but I've come up with another... One can even attach a autoupdate command to the AOB dial for example. The first click doesn't change the aob but "enables" the dial. Then you drag or click it to set the aob and the autoupdate turns off automatically. But, after a bit of testing, it's not such a great idea :haha:. But that gave me a new idea. Apparently, the Dial object doesn't have to be a type 1031, it can be anything. So why not a checkbox, or a button? These change their image if they are clicked. So, something like this:

[G26 I64]
Name=Dial
Type=1033;Stat bmp array
ItemID=0x260FF902
ParentID=0x260FF900
Pos=0,0,66,66
Zone= 155 433 66 66 1 1 0x260FF900 0 0 0x260FF902 0 0 0 0
Materials=8
Display=0
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/tdc/tdc1.tga
Crop 0=0.00195313,0.816406,1,1
Mat 1=data/menu/gui/tdc/tdc1.tga
Crop 1=0.09375,0.816406,1,1
Mat 2=data/menu/gui/tdc/tdc1.tga
Crop 2=0.00195313,0.816406,1,1
Mat 3=data/menu/gui/tdc/tdc1.tga
Crop 3=0.09375,0.816406,1,1
Mat 4=data/menu/gui/tdc/tdc1.tga
Crop 4=0.00195313,0.816406,1,1
Mat 5=data/menu/gui/tdc/tdc1.tga
Crop 5=0.09375,0.816406,1,1
Mat 6=data/menu/gui/tdc/tdc1.tga
Crop 6=0.00195313,0.816406,1,1
Mat 7=data/menu/gui/tdc/tdc1.tga
Crop 7=0.09375,0.816406,1,1
MatFlags=0x9
TexFmt=0x0
Font=0
TextFlags=0x0
CheckBoxWidth=46
StatesColors=0xCDBEB4FF, 0xCDBEB4FF, 0xCDBEB4FF, 0xCDBEB4FF
ToolTipText=2247

coupled with this:

[Dial98]
Name=Autoupdate; Carotio`s Torpedo Dials, Auto-Manuel Peri
Type=63; Toggle_TDC_autoupdate
Cmd=Toggle_TDC_autoupdate
Dial=0x260FF902
CrtVal=0x260FF901
NewVal=0x0
DialVal=-45,45
RealVal=0,1; 0-auto or 1-manuel
Circular=Yes
SndStep=1
SndList=2,Menu.TDC.Pistol_I,0.1,Menu.TDC.Pistol_M, 1,

works like a charm :yeah:.

There's just one bug. Since will be at least 3 autoupdate buttons in the game, on different screens, I don't know of any way to link them to the "real" hardcoded autoupdate button. That means that if you change the autoupdate status and then you leave any screen (uzo, ap, obs, attack map) without switching it back, the other screens will have the graphic reversed (on for off, off for on, except for the real one on the attack map). But hey, it's better than nothing. Anyway, I really need to move the TDC to the right of the screen. I've just realised that it would cover up an important part of the AOBF wheel. I guess the beta test release will have to wait untill tomorrow. For the moment I'll use the method above for the autotdc update. In the fianl release I think I'll use one of the temporary solution dials. We'll see then.

Hitman

10-07-09, 11:47 AM

PS: important question for everybody. I've put the TDC on the left and the Torpedoes on the right because both panels have preety much the same layout as the real thing and it's very comfortable to use (ergonomy wise). But now I'm beginning to reconsider since the TDC obstructs the vertical marks on the periscope. I can mirror them to the other side but I want to know NOW how you prefer it because I'd rather not move 100 items after :D

The majority of people are right-handed and as such play with the mouse on the right of the screen, at his right hand's reach. It results therefore more natural to have the cursor also at that part of the screen, and the "untouchable" items like the Papenberg on the left, as fiddling with the dials cross the screen doesn't seem as intuitive.

For left-handers though, it's a different matter I suppose. Me I'm both handed and do nearly indistinctly tasks with both hands, but still we live in a right handed world and you expect to find the switches and buttons on the right side of whatever you operate with.

My 2 cents

Carotio

10-07-09, 05:27 PM

I just took a brief look at what I have written in my files and it's not the same as what I wrote 1½ year ago in the thread and not the same as you have just written above.

You have of course my permission to use my findings, if you want, with a little credit of course. :03:
I think I may make a new thread for my own version too though. My version only works for 1280*1024 screen resolution; I tried it on my widescreen laptop, and it didn't look good.

These inputs below all adress the auto-manual button as I made it.
Here it goes:

dials.cfg

[Dial90]
Name=Autoupdate; Carotio`s Torpedo Dials, Auto-Manuel Peri
Type=37; Toggle_TDC_autoupdate
Cmd=Toggle_TDC_autoupdate
Dial=0x2620D002
CrtVal=0x2620D001
NewVal=0x0
DialVal=-45,45
RealVal=0,1; 0-auto or 1-manuel
Circular=Yes
CmdOnDrag=No

[Dial91]
Name=Autoupdate; Carotio`s Torpedo Dials, Auto-Manuel UZO
Type=37; Toggle_TDC_autoupdate
Cmd=Toggle_TDC_autoupdate
Dial=0x2820D002
CrtVal=0x2820D001
NewVal=0x0
DialVal=-45,45
RealVal=0,1; 0-auto or 1-manuel
Circular=Yes
CmdOnDrag=No

command.cfg

[Cmd131]
Name=Toggle_TDC_autoupdate
Ctxt=1
;MnID=0x2620D001
;MnID=0x2820D001
Key0=0x41,Rs,"Right Shift + A"

menu_1024_768.ini

[G26 I181]
Name=Switch; Carotio`s torpedo visere, Auto-Manuel Peri
Type=1026;Menu group
ItemID=0x2620D000
ParentID=0x26150000
Pos=0,0,46,46
Zone= 405 -335 46 46 1 1 0x26150000 0 0 0x2620D000 0 0 0 0
Color=0xFFFFFFFF

[G26 I182]
Name=Val
Type=1031;Stat bmp array
ItemID=0x2620D001
ParentID=0x2620D000
Pos=0,0,1,1
Zone= 18 -4 01 01 0 0 0x2620D000 0 0 0x2620D001 0 0 0 0
Materials=1
Display=2;Linear
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/Layout/FLBTDC1_tdc1x.dds
Crop 0=0,0,1,1
MatFlags=0x9
TexFmt=0x9
Drag=false
BmpState=0
NeedFocus=true
SelOne=false
IdGroup=0
StatesColors=0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF

[G26 I183]
Name=Dial
Type=1031;Stat bmp array
ItemID=0x2620D002
ParentID=0x2620D000
Pos=0,0,46,46
Zone= 0 0 46 46 0 0 0x2620D000 0 0 0x2620D002 0 0 0 0
Materials=1
Display=0;No stretch
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/Layout/FLBTDC1_tdc1.dds
Crop 0=0,0,1,1
MatFlags=0x9
TexFmt=0x9
Drag=false
BmpState=1
NeedFocus=true
SelOne=false
IdGroup=0
StatesColors=0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF

[G26 I184]
Name=Perihintergrund
Type=1030;Static bmp
ItemID=0x2620D0003
ParentID=0x2620D000
Pos=0,0,750,160
Zone= -390 185 750 160 0 1 0x262D000 0 0 0x26200003 0 0 0 0
Color=0xFFFFFFFF
Materials=1
Display=2;Linear
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/Layout/Perihintergrund2.dds
Crop 0=0,0,1,1
MatFlags=0x29
TexFmt=0x9

******************'

[G28 I167]
Name=Switch; Carotio`s torpedo visere, Auto-Manuel Uzo
Type=1026;Menu group
ItemID=0x2820D000
ParentID=0x28150000
Pos=0,0,46,46
Zone= 405 -335 46 46 1 1 0x28150000 0 0 0x2820D000 0 0 0 0
Color=0xFFFFFFFF

[G28 I168]
Name=Val
Type=1031;Stat bmp array
ItemID=0x2820D001
ParentID=0x2820D000
Pos=0,0,1,1
Zone= 18 -4 01 01 0 0 0x2820D000 0 0 0x2820D001 0 0 0 0
Materials=1
Display=2;Linear
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/Layout/FLBTDC1_tdc1x.dds
Crop 0=0,0,1,1
MatFlags=0x9
TexFmt=0x9
Drag=false
BmpState=0
NeedFocus=true
SelOne=false
IdGroup=0
StatesColors=0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF

[G28 I169]
Name=Dial
Type=1031;Stat bmp array
ItemID=0x2820D002
ParentID=0x2820D000
Pos=0,0,46,46
Zone= 0 0 46 46 0 0 0x2820D000 0 0 0x2820D002 0 0 0 0
Materials=1
Display=0;No stretch
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/Layout/FLBTDC1_tdc1.dds
Crop 0=0,0,1,1
MatFlags=0x9
TexFmt=0x9
Drag=false
BmpState=1
NeedFocus=true
SelOne=false
IdGroup=0
StatesColors=0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF, 0xFFFFFFFF

[G28 I170]
Name=Perihintergrund
Type=1030;Static bmp
ItemID=0x2820D0003
ParentID=0x2820D000
Pos=0,0,750,160
Zone= -390 185 750 160 0 1 0x282D000 0 0 0x28200003 0 0 0 0
Color=0xFFFFFFFF
Materials=1
Display=2;Linear
Mat 0=data/menu/gui/Layout/Perihintergrund2.dds
Crop 0=0,0,1,1
MatFlags=0x29
TexFmt=0x9

karamazovnew

10-07-09, 05:58 PM

Thanks Carotio. Actually it is almost the same :haha:. I won't use any of your code, since the mods are too different anyway as I'm aiming for the old ACM for SH3 style of play(you'll see at the end :O:). I really must have a visual reference that the autoupdate is on or off. At least now we know how to add commands to items in all screens (almost all) :D And this method of using a button/checkbox for the dial background allows visual switching :yeah:
When more buttons do the same thing, the modder has to find a dial that can be modified by a command, to link them together. I've tried with the useless Hydrophone Volume dial (no luck, it simply doesn't work). Since my mod will completely replace the notepad, I'll have the temporary solution dials to play with. Maybe even the Target height, because the stadimeter will work independently. Again, I'll see then. Now back to work, mirroring the tdc is a pain in the #@!.

makman94

10-07-09, 06:15 PM

@Makman
Well, to know what to expect....
Phase 1 (should be ready tomorrow, I'll post it as beta test :P): TDC to AP screen
Phase 2: Torpedo Settings and fire control to AP screen
Phase 3: Make the peri a bit smaller and replace the markings file, background and depth meter
Phase 4: Ujagd tool in AP screen (I'll also keep the stadimeter but only for visual refference)
Phase 5: Ship Lenghts in recognition manual
Phase 6: Uzo Screen
Phase 7: Obs Scope Screen

Right now I'm adding shadows to the dials... reaaally hard but it's worth the effort.

i will agree with Hitman ...tdc on right (i know it is a...pain but you...asked! :DL)
if you want any help with images i can give a shot for you if you like (i have never 'messed' with menu_ini of sh4 so i am not in position to offer help at this)
nice that you will include the u-jagd tools !!:up: and of course all the others features are more than wellcome ! but why do you want to make the peri smaller ?
of course you can count on me as a tester

ps: a question for you and Carotio : do you believe that this idea for the tdc toggle button can work also in my dragable tdc panel for sh3 ??

Carotio

10-07-09, 06:26 PM

No idea. I have not worked on the menu_1024 file for about 1½ year, so I have to get back "into it" again. But maybe. Only one way to find out. To try it out... :03:

makman94

10-07-09, 06:41 PM

No idea. I have not worked on the menu_1024 file for about 1½ year, so I have to get back "into it" again. But maybe. Only one way to find out. To try it out... :03:

thats exactly my 'problem' also Carotio. i have also about 1 year to 'mess' with menu_ini of sh3 and have the same need also!
anyway, for sure i will give it a try!
thank you for 'sharing' with us your 'discovery'

karamazovnew

10-07-09, 06:46 PM

makman94

10-07-09, 06:51 PM

Well.... did you just say dragable tdc? Is it placed in the G3F page? If so, then you only need to add a button (or a checkbox) item and link it in the commands_en.cfg file. However you'll hit the same problem as I did. You'll need to make sure that no other item in the game can toggle the autoupdate because the graphic will no longer be linked to the correct status (just hide the button on the attack map). If it's not in the G3F screen, then yes you'll need to emulate it as a dial, and yes, you'll still have that problem.

xmm, the button is ON the tdc panel (currently i have only send it off screen 'messing' with its position)
yes, the tdc is placed on g3f but this can be changed easily if problem is there
my question is if a dragable button can work with this idea

karamazovnew

10-07-09, 07:00 PM

You can't have a draggable button. To drag it you must click it :haha:.
Let me see. You have a draggable item that also needs to control other items... So the draggable item must be the parent of all the other items. But you must still be able to click the other items, which becomes impossible since they're all "beneath" the parent. SO.
1.Make a big menu group as big as the screen
2.Make a Static Bmp Array item (or a Button). It must be draggable, so it needs to be BmpState=1, Needsfocus=true, Drag=true. This item will be your "handle" so put in a suggestive image.
3.Make another group and parent it to the "handle". But they must not intersect (ok they can intersect, but the part that intersects will move the tdc, you can't click "through" it).
4.Insert all the other items, including your autotdc button in the group you made at step 3.

In this way, you can only move the tdc if you click on the handle (so it becomes impossible to move the handle offscreen on the handle side, similar to how the notepad hides in SH4). I suggest you place the handle below the TDC so you can move it anywhere left to right and hide it at the top of the screen. To set the initial position of the TDC on the screen, you need to move the group at step 1 (easier to move than the handle). To move the TDC in relation to the handle, you only need to move the group at step 3. That should make it easy to place for you.

makman94

10-07-09, 07:22 PM

You can't have a draggable button. To drag it you must click it :haha:.
Let me see. You have a draggable item that also needs to control other items... So the draggable item must be the parent of all the other items. But you must still be able to click the other items, which becomes impossible since they're all "beneath" the parent. SO.
1.Make a big menu group as big as the screen
2.Make a Static Bmp Array item (or a Button). It must be draggable, so it needs to be BmpState=1, Needsfocus=true, Drag=true. This item will be your "handle" so put in a suggestive image.
3.Make another group and parent it to the "handle". But they must not intersect (ok they can intersect, but the part that intersects will move the tdc, you can't click "through" it).
4.Insert all the other items, including your autotdc button in the group you made at step 3.

In this way, you can only move the tdc if you click on the handle (so it becomes impossible to move the handle offscreen on the handle side, similar to how the notepad hides in SH4). I suggest you place the handle below the TDC so you can move it anywhere left to right and hide it on the top of the screen. To set the initial position of the TDC on the screen, you need to move the group at step 1 (easier to move than the handle). To move the TDC in relation to the handle, you only need to move the group at step 3. That should make it easy to place for you.

oh....yes!! :yeah:
looks brilliant Karamazovnew !!!

i will try it ASAP !!

THANK YOU VERY MUCH !!!! :up::up:

karamazovnew

10-15-09, 03:42 AM

Boy I sure took my sweet time :har:. I'm so lazy that I sometimes wonder when I'll just decide to stop breathing air :|\\. Anyway, the tdc panel is finished at last, so I'm releasing it as an alpha version. All you need is OM715+OMEGUv210+Hotfix3. Enable my mod after them.

Download link for : http://www.filefront.com/14726049/KiUB_alpha_1.0.zip

http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/9822/sh4img20091015114403751.th.jpg (http://img390.imageshack.us/i/sh4img20091015114403751.jpg/)

This mod will transform the notepad on the Attack Periscope into DIAL NIRVANA :yeah:. There are only NEW items, all the old ones sit nicely under them, invisible and unclickable. The autotdc update button sure fought with me for a while but it finnaly gave in, so now it works. Just press the green bulb, but not exatcly on it's center (if the color doesn't change, the autoupdate will not toggle) :up:. Normally it should be green for ON and red for OFF. If it gets desyncronised that means that you've pressed the Autoupdate button on the attack map and forgot to switch it back, just press the button on the attack map page once to fix it :haha:.

:hmmm: What was left? Ah yes, I'll change the handles for hiding/showing the panels after I finish the torpedo panel. The images have not been photoshoped yet, I've just asembled and cropped them. All contrast/hue/scratches stuff will be done just before I release the final version.
You can integrate this into any mod you want, but please remember that it's not yet finished. This mod contains 2 very important files, menu_1024_768.ini and dials.cfg that are only compatible with the latest OMEGU. I've named everything on the AP page but all you need to do to adapt it to vanilla is copy the entire G26 section and paste it over your file, then delete all of FLB Sale's items since you won't have some files needed (don't worry they are the last items in the page, and clearly marked, you won't need to renumber anything). Then paste all my dials onto your dials.cfg file and renumber them correctly. If you can't manage that, you'll have to wait for the final version. I'll make one for each major interface (RFB,TMO,Vanilla) if requested. However I hope to make this good enough for Lurker to integrate it into his mod so I don't need to update it on every change :haha:

I had expected the torpedo panel to be ready now but an ugly cold and bronchitis combination prevented me from doing much work. Next alpha version will be up at the end of next week, I hope :oops:

lurker_hlb3

10-15-09, 06:54 AM

However I hope to make this good enough for Lurker to integrate it into his mod so I don't need to update it on every change

I've downloaded the mod an will do a "integration" check. I've been sitting on my next version of OMEGU waiting for this mod. Will report back later today

Lurker

Hitman

10-15-09, 08:22 AM

Looks excellent, downloading now :yeah:

One "realism" suggestion: In the real TDC the light that indicated wether it was set to autoupdate with the movement of the scope/uzo or free from them and able to receive manual inputs in the dials was BLUE, and it was lit when the TDC was NOT coupled to the scope/uzo, i.e. when it accepted manual input on the dials. When coupled to scope/uzo, the light was off.

Oh, and I liked the original Papenberg (periscope level indicator) better than this new one, as it matched the pictures from real U-Boats I've seen. It's a matter of personal taste, though :arrgh!:

jimbob

10-15-09, 08:41 AM

Oh Lawdy Sweet Jebus !

:salute:

This one gotta be seen in game.

karamazovnew

10-15-09, 12:42 PM

Looks excellent, downloading now :yeah:
Oh, and I liked the original Papenberg (periscope level indicator) better than this new one, as it matched the pictures from real U-Boats I've seen. It's a matter of personal taste, though :arrgh!:

Tell it to Lurker, not to me, I haven't touched any existing items :haha:.
About the colors of the autoupdate, will do, but for now, you can photoshop the thing in TDC_parts.tga. It's the 2 bulbs at the bottom of the immage, one in each corner (not the ones at the top right of the image). Desaturate the left one and change the hue on the other.

Hitman

10-15-09, 01:57 PM

you can photoshop the thing in TDC_parts.tga

LOL already did that, I just mentioned it for future releases :haha:

makman94

10-17-09, 05:06 PM

Wilcke

10-17-09, 09:29 PM

Thank you! Take care of that bronchitis.

Hitman

10-18-09, 04:13 AM

Tested it and everything seems to work perfectly :up:

What a difference this makes in the game :rock:

But so far I only got it to work with OMEGU, if following your instructions to enable it in the stock game it didn't work. May be I did something wrong, may be not. I just mention this in case you are planning to release a "Do it Yourself" kit for modders to incorporate it into their own GUI mod.

B25

10-18-09, 11:07 AM

Really great work Karamazow. A lot of us appreciate your afford.

I have a little suggestion before you finished final version.
Do You think, is not a good idea to place your dials to the left side of screen and let notepad right where originally was? So the result would be well distributed panels (similar to US): Notepad on right, "torpedo launch screen" on right bellow, YOUR GREAT ADDITIONAL DIALS (TDC) on left. And periscope view would be covered as minimal as possible.
Maybe then could be considered to change the sizes.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7450/57862044.jpg
(1600*1200 pic http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4591/94781645.jpg)

As You can on the picture, german periscope view is balanced and give all needed information. :up:
Periscop height (50% width, 100% height) - left
TDC (75% width, 75% height) - left [tested with recognition manual and very good]
Notepad (80% width, 80% height) - right
Torpedos (80% width, 80% height) - right below

PS: I am sorry for noncomplete TDC. Tested on TM 1.7, followed your instruction, edited menu_1024 and dials.cfg, but was only partially succesful. Anyway dials are functional, only background is missing.

PPS: But for those with wide screen the sizes of elements could be OK. It is upon you. Recover your health soon.

Wilcke

10-18-09, 12:07 PM

Tested it and everything seems to work perfectly :up:

What a difference this makes in the game :rock:

This is a must have! Concur, working well with the following list.

Rel_SH4_Trans-Atlantic_Radio
Setup Trans-Atlantic Radio and BBC
OpsMonsun_V705
OMv705_to_V715A
OMv715_patch1
OMEGU_v210
OMEGU_v210_Hotfix3
KiUB alpha 1.0
OM_Arct_Env

karamazovnew

10-19-09, 09:56 AM

Thanks all, hope to have the alpha 2 version ready in 3 days.

B25, the tdc was originally on the left of the screen. I decided at the last second to move it to the right (and also mirroring the layout) because on 4:3 resolutions it covered the vertical periscope marks. I'll put the torpedo settings on the left since they don't need to be constantly up. Since all the items have scalable and relative size and position, they should be easy to move from one position to the other by simply making an offset or, better, playing with the parent position ratio. You only need to move the 0x26030000 object. Yet some items will behave incorrectly because the Pos and Line values will not all be correct. For example, if I move the 0x26030000 object 1 pixel to the right, I need to remake the Line position for all it's children to avoid any problems. And there are about 50 of them :haha:. And scaling is done just by changing the size of the main group (0x26030000).
BUT, there's always a BUT...

Problem nr1.: make sure that this file data/menu/gui/layout/bgr00.tga is transparent. I think yours is white and NOT transparent. It's used as an image for all invisible (but clickable) dials. I'll make a new one, so it won't be a problem anymore, I had no idea that TMO has a different bgr00.tga file...

Problem nr2: the TDC autoupdate button is not a button, it's a dial. The red/green bulb is not a bulb, it's a needle. It's center is, in my version, waaay to the right, somewhere above the bearing dial. When you click it, it rotates 180 degrees. The red bulb which was just offscreen, now moves into the correct position and the green bulb moves outside the screen :haha:. SO if you move the TDC to the left of the screen, you'll have to rework the needle to make the unwanted bulb go offscreen to the left, not to the right (just move the needle to the left, by an equal ammount of pixels to it's width).

Problem Nr3: this is where it hurts... at least it hurt me on my calculations. All the images in the game are made for 1024x768 resolution. The game dodges this problem on higher resolution by not scaling up the items (not all of them, just look how bad the periscope background looks at high res). But as you can see, my panel looks the same at any resolution (including widescreen). That's because the game stretches my images (I used 1 1 scaling values for all my items). I tried at first to use "1024x768" image but at high resolutions (I'm using 1920x1200) it looked like krap. So instead, I used 1920x1200 image files (cropped of course) so that they look best and unpixelated at the maximum resolution and are scaled down for the lower ones by the game, with an acceptable loss of information. My items have the exact same size in pixels as the image parts themselves multiplied by 0.64 (1024/1920=0.64). This way, even at 1024x768, the dials are still readable. But if you scale the thing down even by 10%, the game will have to rescale an already rescaled image... you won't be able to read them anymore at low resolution. In other words, the size is not some designer wish, it's demanded by readability :cry: Just to make you understand, I had to make the dials 5% bigger at one point because the white text on the AOB dial was completely blurred at 1024x768. And to either move or scale it, requires reworking the image files too. I'm not talking about "Image size" in photoshop, I'm talking about modifying 3d objects and rerendering and then reworking each item in the menu.ini file. Not an option for me, at least at this stage.

Wilcke

10-19-09, 11:34 AM

Karamazovnew,

Believe you were responding to B25 post.

I am OK with TDC on the right. I never use the note pad.

I am running in a widescreen LCD and everything is scaling nicely, believe its a 1920 by 1080 res.

Well done and looking forward to Alpha 2!

Take care man.

karamazovnew

10-19-09, 12:10 PM

Edited :oops:. Sorry about that :salute:

B25

10-20-09, 09:28 AM

>> Karamazow,

understand your left/right considering.
I am curious, if there is no notepad than, how would you iniciate the stadimetr and the rest of notepad function?

nr.1 with bgr00.tga solved thanks to you. It was not transparent, now it is.

nr. 2 very funny solution of your TDC autoupdate button :-)). I have read about your problems with it, nice story man, hehe.

nr.3 about scaling: I will think about it.

>> Hitman,
I understood, that you do not use the stadimetr, right? How do you get the range?

karamazovnew

10-20-09, 10:23 AM

At the moment it's just an alpha version to show the progress. It isn't meant yet as a fully working targeting solution. There are 3 missing parts for that:
1. AOB wheel
2. Ship's length in recog manual (for speed)
3. Stadimeter
The stadimeter will work as a visual reference only. It will not show the angle or the estimated range. As in OLC's gui, ACM, or Manos (all for SH3), there will be an arbitrary system of periscope marks, linked to the AOB wheel. However, unlike in SH3 where we had to eyball it, here we have the split prism to help us, so don't worry, it will be featured in the final version.

Hitman

10-20-09, 01:55 PM

I understood, that you do not use the stadimetr, right? How do you get the range?

Basically there are two ways of doing it, as in real life Kaleuns did:

1.- By making a quick estimate of distance based on how much of the lense is covered by the target ship. F.e. if you see a 150 metres long ship covering the full field of view, it is at 1000 metres. If it covers half the FOV, it is at 2000, if only one third, at 3000, and so on. This is good for shooting when you are at very close range.

2.- By using the periscope vertical/horizontal scale. Sadly in SH3/SH4 it is hardcoded to display in degrees, and not in mils (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_mil), as it was in real life. And that makes such quick calculations impossible. I have made my own custom reticle for the periscopes in mils, though, but it comes at the cost of losing some FOV to hide the old reticle.

makman94

10-26-09, 07:51 AM

any news Kara ? i like this silence but i said to myself to 'hurt' it a little bit !!:yep:

Tomi_099

10-26-09, 08:39 AM

:hmmm:Really great work Karamazow. A lot of us appreciate your afford.

I have a little suggestion before you finished final version.
Do You think, is not a good idea to place your dials to the left side of screen and let notepad right where originally was? So the result would be well distributed panels (similar to US): Notepad on right, "torpedo launch screen" on right bellow, YOUR GREAT ADDITIONAL DIALS (TDC) on left. And periscope view would be covered as minimal as possible.
Maybe then could be considered to change the sizes.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7450/57862044.jpg
(1600*1200 pic http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4591/94781645.jpg)

As You can on the picture, german periscope view is balanced and give all needed information. :up:
Periscop height (50% width, 100% height) - left
TDC (75% width, 75% height) - left [tested with recognition manual and very good]
Notepad (80% width, 80% height) - right
Torpedos (80% width, 80% height) - right below

PS: I am sorry for noncomplete TDC. Tested on TM 1.7, followed your instruction, edited menu_1024 and dials.cfg, but was only partially succesful. Anyway dials are functional, only background is missing.

PPS: But for those with wide screen the sizes of elements could be OK. It is upon you. Recover your health soon.

#####################################
:hmmm:

Is it not possible to have outsid of the viewing window, a 3D model.
It may still possible mechanism outside the viewing window on the surface to make Transperente Tga one.
Underlying this is then the 3D Madell. :hmmm:

karamazovnew

10-27-09, 06:08 PM

Having some real life issues that prevent me from working on the mod :wah:. One of them is being 300km away from my main pc. On this laptop I can barely watch Star Trek. However, I promise that next week I'll have the Alpha 2 version up.

Tomi, I understand what you say, I've tried to do it at first, when I didn't know how to scale resolutions, but I didn't succeed and I don't think it's possible in SH4. They said that in SH5 the interface will be moddable through Python. If World Of Warcraft is any indication of what can be done with it, then we'll have a lot of freedom to integrate 3d and 2d interfaces. I myself would prefer no 2d interface whatsoever, but a better control of the cameras and a perfect crew order system. We'll see then.

By the way, I have a problem with the torpedo control panel. I mean the small one with buttons for torpedoes and the fire button. I want to integrate the open/close dial but that means that I need to deal with 3 separate types of dials:
- tube status (ready, loading, empty)
- selected tube
- opened/closed tube
I'm thinking about doing it this way:
- bulbs show the tube status, they will not have roman numbers on them.
- the separate labels (check the 3d version in the conning tower) will light up to show what tube has been selected
- switches similar to the 3d version to show opened/closed status.

But then there are other problems:
- first of all, I'm running out of screen space :D. I need to put all the torpedo items on one panel, on the left of the screen, both the settings, and the fire control. I would've prefered to have the fire control panel show up all the time but it would cover up the periscope depth dial and also, when extended, it would reach the center of the screen :(
- the opened/closed dial only updates when the transition from opened to closed has been made. That means that even if I find a way to allow you to click the switches to open/close the tubes (I'm yet to find out how to send parameters within the commands), there will be a 1-2 second delay until it updates. There are 2 sets of commands that allow this: Toggle_open_close_torpedo_tube and Open_torpedo_tube. Unlike the Open_sel_torpedo_tube, these 2 accept parameters (1 to 6, i think). But when attaching them to 3d objects, the Toggle one didn't work.
- Every time you switch from one tube to another, you automatically activate the "Close Tube" for the last selected tube, unless the Close command (or the Toggle command) is removed from the commands.cfg file. This however doesn't happen when you change the tubes with the torpedo selector dials (both single and salvo). SO.....

How about this:
- The fire control panel will sit under the settings panel and will only consist of the fire button and 6 bulbs (or 5 or 3, depending on the type of uboat), identical, with no roman numerals. You will not be able to click them and they will not indicate which tube is selected.
- There will be one label under each, and a switch under it to show which are opened and which closed.
- To select a tube or to see which tube is selected you'll have to use the torpedo selector dial (either the single or the salvo one).

I'd like your opinion on this: would it be a major inconvenience if you only switch tubes from this dial and there is no visual reference apart from the dial to show you wich tubes are selected?

makman94

10-28-09, 10:35 AM

take your time Karamazovnew ! :DL we are not in a hurry...are we?

now about your question for the torpedoes's buttons why not to leave them as it is ? that part is ok i think ,maybe some new images (texturing) will refresh them and will be allright ! (sorry if my answer is not exactly to your question but i am not sure that i have understand exactly the issue with the torpedoes.....my english ,you see, are...:down:)

bye

Wilcke

11-06-09, 01:41 PM

just a bump.

karamazovnew

11-09-09, 09:11 PM

Pic showing the completed torpedo panel. Color conversion from tga to jpg messed up the contrast AGAIN. The lower part containing the 6 torpedo bulbs is set lower (I mean in depth) than the upper panel. The fire button is shown as pressed, the 2'd and 3'd torpedo are selected (lit), the switches show the open/closed status (2'd torp is "closed"). The entire panel has the same width as the TDC panel, but it's about an inch shorter. You will have to unhide the entire panel to fire a torpedo (unless you use a keybind for that). Any thoughts?

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/885/torp.th.jpg (http://img514.imageshack.us/i/torp.jpg/)

looney

11-10-09, 05:46 AM

looks great but on the selector switch for single torpedo's I only see 5 tubes instead of shown at the bottom ;)

Nitpicking lol

karamazovnew

11-10-09, 08:46 AM

It's not a bug, it's a feature :03: Just kidding. There are actually 3 versions of selector dial text (both single and salvo): one for Type II (with 3 torps), one for Type VII (with 5) and one for the 6 tube series. In this image I only forgot to unhide the 6 tube text.

Hitman

11-10-09, 08:49 AM

Looks excellent :up:

Where are the aditional dials for the FAT torpedoes when available? Do they replace some of the existing ones when switching to a FAT?

karamazovnew

11-10-09, 10:37 AM

makman94

11-10-09, 12:21 PM

AWESOME Kara !!! :up::up:

my opinion is to remove also the dails for FaT torpedoes from your panel and leave them only to attack map becuase ,as you allready said, you need this optical vision of graphically indicated course on the attack map.i think that FaT torpedoes dails are also useless in any page exept the attack map page

ps: i hope that you have allready start realizing now that you are digging the 'grave' of sh3 with this mod ! :DL

bye

Hitman

11-10-09, 02:46 PM

:hmmm: You mean the Pattern Angle and the Leg? Those work only for the LuT torpedo. For the FaT, in SH4 you can only set the straight run and the second gyro (only 2 values, 90 port and 90 starboard). So I chose to place them on the Periscope Page because they're easy to use. The small red/green switch you can see is actually the second gyro. The Leg dial should allow you to at least switch between 800m and 1600m as it worked in SH3. But it doesn't, it's fixed to 1600m.

But for the LuT, I didn't have space for all of the dials anyway and I couldn't find a way to make a Fat/Lut switch as you have on the Attack Map, or at least show which torpedo is in which tube. Also, even I can't figure out how to set a Lut if I don't see the graphically indicated course on the attack map. Having them on the Periscope screen would've been pointless for 99% of the players. :-?
Ah OK, very logical solution. Sorry for the confusion FAT/LUT, I sometimes tend to mix them up :doh:

Coincidentally, I have some scans of an authentic LUT torpedo manual :D, and if I manage to interpretate what the tables are for, it would be an awesome add-on as slide out in the attack map screen :yeah:

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/2086/34923816.th.jpg (http://img260.imageshack.us/i/34923816.jpg/)

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/9176/39306013.th.jpg (http://img691.imageshack.us/i/39306013.jpg/)

May I suggest that you reowrk the useless attack screen with your models to make it look like the real TDC and the real torpedo settings cases with a bacground of a wall with tubes, pipes, valves, etc.? Would be amazing.

karamazovnew

11-14-09, 02:01 PM

Well, after what has been without doubt the most boring and tedious time of my life, I've managed to finish the bloody torpedo panel. I had hoped for work to go faster but I encountered new and exciting (NOT) problems at each step. If you're curious take a look at the new image files and take a guess why they look that way :-?. Anyway without further ado, here's the link:

http://www.filefront.com/14922993/KiUB_Alpha_2.0.zip

And here's a pic (the image was taken at night, that's why it's so red):

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/2863/kiubalpha2.th.jpg (http://img80.imageshack.us/i/kiubalpha2.jpg/)

Now there are bad and good news:

- First, the bad news (just one): You can't click the open/close switches. Sorry, but I couldn't find a way to send to the game a command with parameter. It can be done for 3D objects, but not through dials. You'll have to use the keys to open/close the tubes. Also bare in mind that I haven't touched the Commands.cfg file so you will encounter the bug were the tubes close when you select another one. I'll fix that when I finish the mod, for the time being, you should just comment out the "Close Torpedo Tube" or "Toggle_Open_Close_Torpedo_Tube", depending on which you prefer to use. Please note that this bug only appears when you click on the Tube bulbs, not when you use the selector dials. It's a hard coded bug :haha:

- Now the good news (two of them):

1. Please remember that this mod is made for OMEGU v210, but I've tested it with RFB, OM, with and without OMEGU. The mod worked with all of them. But that's mainly because I've used the OMEGU v210 menu_1024_768.ini file as a base. I've only changed the periscope page so far. To make the mod easier to include in other mods I've deleted FLBSale's dials from the Periscope and UZO pages, and the corresponding entries from the dials.cfg file. So if your mod makes changes in any other page, I don't recommend using the entire file, just the periscope page. As far as I can tell, you can even copy/paste the Periscope section (G26) over the vanilla version, it should still work without bugs.

2. I've managed to link the tube selector dials and open/close switches to the tube buttons. That means that the game will only load as many tubes as needed (3 for Type II, 5 for Type VII and 6 for Type IX). This is done automatically, there's no need for optional files :yeah:

So have fun with it, and report any bugs. I can underline the following:
- if you use the 3d radar range switch, or the Attack Page autoupdate button, or you use a keybind for the autoupdate command, you might desync the Autoupdate bulb on the periscope screen.
- I haven't changed the autohide handles for my panels... yet.
- on lower resolutions you might see black lines around some objects (there's one under one torpedo tube bulb, when the 5'th tube is closed for ex). Please report any such errors for any resolution.
- uhmmm... that's all of them I guess.

Now I can finnaly start work on the main ingredient... the background with stadimeter button and AOB wheel. :smug:

PS: can any moderator change the name of this thread into "[WIP] KiUB Interface for Uboats"?

lurker_hlb3

11-14-09, 06:37 PM

It appears that the "Dial.cfg" file is missing from the cfg directory

Alex

11-14-09, 06:54 PM

It's getting pretty. :03:
I wish you good luck with your mod. :up:

karamazovnew

11-14-09, 07:56 PM

It appears that the "Dial.cfg" file is missing from the cfg directory

The Dials.cfg file sits in the Data\Menu\Cfg\ folder, not the Data\cfg one... That folder is just a leftover from my work with the commands file.
Is there any problem? Is there any dial that doesn't work or items that look weird or misplaced at certain resolutions?

Thanks Alex, it's nearing completion. Compared to the almost 200 new items I had to add, the next part will be a breeze.

lurker_hlb3

11-14-09, 08:42 PM

The Dials.cfg file sits in the Data\Menu\Cfg\ folder, not the Data\cfg one... That folder is just a leftover from my work with the commands file.

You are correct, got thrown off by the empty cfg in Data

karamazovnew

11-15-09, 07:23 AM

makman94

11-15-09, 11:41 PM

About the AOB wheel: how would you rather have it? Surrounding the periscope allowing you to view through it as in all the SH3 mods? Or completely replacing the periscope, something like here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=151937.

hello Kara,
my vote is to make it surrounding the periscope allowing view through...the bigger...the better !

you are making really good things here :up:

karamazovnew

11-16-09, 07:12 PM

Well, I've done a bit of searching for periscope images and such. I've found a decent zoom level that moves the marking lines off-screen. It allows for a good 32/8 degrees FOV which is preety consistent with the real thing. Plus my markers will be exactly where they should be on all resolutions. But at 4:3 resolution the aobf would be almost always covered up by the panels. However, if I place it at the center of the screen it fits snugly between them.

Hitman

11-17-09, 10:28 AM

In real life its movement was automated and coordnated with the stadimeter. Since you can't do that in SH4, you need unfortunately to have it work while you are able to see the target. Another option would be to get the range via stadimeter and observe the number of horizontal marks the target extends, then go to the wiz wheel and move it accordingly.

In any case, please make the AOB finder optionally independent of the rest of your interface :up:

karamazovnew

11-18-09, 12:48 AM

Well, after an entire day reworking the periscope model (you have no idea how many useless polygons are there :haha:) and a few hours trying (and failing) to achieve a nice metal look, I've made the periscope background. The size of the reticule is almost the same, just a bit smaller so that the real marking layout should fit nicely. On 16:9 resolutions it will take the same space on screen but you'll be able to see a few more things to the sides. Here's a pic (1600x1200) made in photoshop so don't mind the blurry low rez orders bar:
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/5038/periscope.th.jpg (http://img443.imageshack.us/i/periscope.jpg/)

Hitman

11-18-09, 07:56 AM

Holy cow, that looks wonderful :o

I used for my own optics mod a 28º/7º lense in the scope, which left the markings out nicely and is enough to provide good field of view :up:

karamazovnew

11-18-09, 08:26 AM

I have to say... making this mod has been like a rewrite of Murphy's Law. I can't wait to finish it.
Damn... edited by mistake...

Hitman

11-18-09, 09:31 AM

PS: Hitman I need your help. I was planning on using the existing SH3 AOBF's to make the 3d one. But they are inexact. At a scaling factor of 10, the bottom part doesn't match up. Do you maybe have some good layouts? Simple spiked wheels, simple lines, nothing fancy, I just need them to align some faces. I only need the ones for range lenght and aob.

I'll need to browse through my archives, and will report later if I find something useful :yep:

karamazovnew

11-19-09, 02:29 AM

I have to say... making this mod has been like a rewrite of Murphy's Law. I can't wait to finish it.

Just to give a recent example...
As you've seen everything I've made so far for this mod keeps it's proportion on the screen, meaning that as you increase resolution, the items do not become smaller. I've just tried to do the same with the small depth meter in the periscope screen and failed miserably :damn:. Why? Because the devs didn't figure that they'd be making uboats when they made SH4. So they didn't feel the need to make dials for the Periscope Height or the Sub Level items. They would've been logarithmic linear dials. When UBM came up they just hardcoded something fast. I've pretty much figured out the formula that they used and was expecting it to be based on either the parent's size or the item's size. But no... it's also based on (are you ready?) the Item Height Proportion (the one that is used to position an item). What does that mean? Well it's simple, if you scale the resolution up and decide to also scale up the entire depth meter, the amount of movement for both the periscope height and the sub level linear dials will remain the same in number of pixels :damn:. :nope: Can't wait for SH5.

karamazovnew

11-19-09, 08:51 AM

Strange, this is the first time a quirk of SH4's interface has turned into a perk :haha:. There was no point in starting a new thread for this info, but it should help pretty much any interface modder that has to create marking lines. I have not tested this in SH3 and would appreciate if anybody (I'm looking at you Makman :up:) tests this.

As you all know the periscope marking lines are hardcoded to light up at night. How? Apparently, EVERY item in the Marking lines group has this feature, even the ones that you add. In SH4, it looks like this...

[G26 IXXX]
Name=Marking lines
Type=1026;Menu group
ItemID=0x26060000

Then come a few text items (not important, actually i moved them offscreen)... I just added my item after them (if your Pos and Zone are the same, then yes, the marks will remain centered on the screen in SH4):

[G26 I278]
Name=Karamazov Periscope Marks ;new item
Type=1030;Static bmp
ItemID=0x260EF005
ParentID=0x26060000
Pos=0,-768,1024,768
Zone= 0 0 1024 768 1 1 0x26060000 0.5 -0.5 0x260EF005 -0.5 0.5 0 0
Color=0xFFFFFFFF
Materials=1
Display=2;Linear
Mat 0=data/menu/Karamazov/AP_Marks2.tga
Crop 0=0,0,1,1
MatFlags=0x29
TexFmt=0x0

That image, AP_Marks2.tga is a simple image file with a black alpha channel. The color channel itself is a full block of color and the marks themselves are on the alpha channel as white marks. Now here's the real trick.... The game deals with the color channel very differently than you might expect. regardless of the color in the RGB channel, during the day, it will make the marks appear black. But during the night it will make it a different color depending on the HSB values that you used that you used. It's something like this( I'll consider the values that you used to be H, S and B:

New Brightness=B
New Hue=H*S + GREEN*(100%-S)

In other words:
Perfect White becomes Perfect Green
Perfect Red becomes Still Perfect Red
Red with less saturation becomes Something
And of course, the brighter your color is the more the marks will "lit up" during the night. However, the items will never be true opaque, no matter how white you make the alpha channel. They will have around 5-10% transparency.

Hope this info will be useful to someone. This method should work in ANY group that has such items so it should work for binoculars, Uzo, Obs Scope and the rest, hopefully in SH3 too. For example I've just made a periscope filter that makes the image appear green during the night (a sort of night vision). It's very very subtle, but it's there :) Also has the effect of making the image a bit darker during the day (I mean darker than the Obs Scope).

Hitman

11-19-09, 09:22 AM

This is indeed a very sueful info for me, as I'm still working in a new version of my interface mod for SH3 :D

I had already noticed what you mentioned about the RGB and Alpha channel, as I had noticed it when modifying the red light mask. But what I didn't know is that adding the reticle as child to the existing "frame" in the menu-ini would make it turn dim green by night :yeah:

So far I had solved it by adding a new image with the reticle in Alpha channel to the red mask layer, and as you suggested, tweaking the values to be bright green. But of course your new solution is a much cleaner method :ping:

EDIT: It's only sad that we can't get rid of the original marking lines, specially in the UZO!

karamazovnew

11-19-09, 09:31 AM

EDIT: It's only sad that we can't get rid of the original marking lines, specially in the UZO!

SH4 doesn't have a red mask, thank god. I noticed that rule when I looked at the Bearing.tga which was white and it clicked.
Can't the Uzo can be fixed like any other screen: zoom in and make the view hole smaller? At least the extra zoom would be a reason to use the silly thing. Oh wait... in SH3 it didn't move with the waves... that was a good enough reason :haha:.

PS: You should see the periscope now... my god it's beautiful! I've used a 30% dimming of light at the edges (as it was in real life), a red overall filter (i just like redish water) and a green night filter that increases visibility by 8% but decreases it during the day (it's black then) by 8%. At night you can clearly see the horizon while during the day it just looks cool :)

Hitman

11-19-09, 10:17 AM

Can't the Uzo can be fixed like any other screen: zoom in and make the view hole smaller? At least the extra zoom would be a reason to use the silly thing.

The real UZO had a 7x zoom with a FOV of 7.25 degrees. Its use was exclusively for aiming at a target, and the reasonably low zoom factor and large FOV ensured both stability when looking through it and also being able to see the whole target ship when shooting, helping apreciate the distance and AOB of it. Currently I have done exactly what you have said, and have a 10x zoom with a 4º FOV, which is historically correct for a mid to late war model codenamed UZS4, which was however little or no used, since the uboats did no longer attempt surface attacks at night by then. But after much using it, I think that a 7x is certainly prefereable for surface attacks.

Oh wait... in SH3 it didn't move with the waves... that was a good enough reason :haha:.

It did only a little (In storm waves it became much noticeable), but since it was also stabilized in real life, it wasn't that bad. It can however be modified in the cameras.dat file IIRC :yep:

PS: You should see the periscope now... my god it's beautiful! I've used a 30% dimming of light at the edges (as it was in real life),

Correct AFAIK :up:

a red overall filter (i just like redish water)

What do you mean? When looking through the periscope while rigged for red you would not see anything reddish in real life :hmmm:

nd a green night filter that increases visibility by 8% but decreases it during the day (it's black then) by 8%. At night you can clearly see the horizon while during the day it just looks cool :)

Not historic :down: Periscopes had two colour filters, one orange to use against sun blending in dusk/dawn, and a grey one to prevent the glowing sun reflections in the cap of the waves.

Can't you leave the green at night as option?

Besides, I have readed several accounts that stated that periscopes where unusable at dark nights, even the observation scope (Which allowed more light).

But I'm sure dying to see more pictures, please upload them :D

karamazovnew

11-20-09, 09:50 AM

I know that a red filter blocks red light, but here filters are simple semi-transparent images that give a hue while reducing contrast. There are 3 images of this sort in my mod:
- an image that controls how dark the image becomes at the edges of the scope (easy to mod by increasing contrast of the alpha map)
- an image that gives an overall tint to the image (my red filter). It's veeery subtle.
- a filter that becomes green at night and black during the day. It's not night vision but it allows superb visibility of the horizon at night.
Ofc you can change anything you like, the color or the transparency as you wish. The marks are also on a separate image so you'll be able to change them as you wish.

There's no point in posting more pics, if I don't slack today, I'll post the final version later tonight.

By the way I have an important question.

Can I change the ClassName values in the Names.cfg file? Does it affect anything else than the text item next to the "Ship:" button on the solution page? It displays the type of unidentified ships and it's annoying. I want to keep that item for when you identify ships, then I'll move the "Ship" button under it (invisible ofc) so you can press the name of the ship and have the recog manual move to that page. This might sound as cheating but in OM it's impossible NOT to use the auto identification. There are just too many ships.

Hitman

11-20-09, 03:51 PM

This might sound as cheating but in OM it's impossible NOT to use the auto identification. There are just too many ships.

... as in real life :D

Therefore, Kaleuns didn't usually identify their targets before killing them, but instead they got the details from the distress message, debris, etc.

Kaleuns normally estimated the target size and tonnage, (which explains their overclaims) and that is not so difficult in the current game. In fact it is even easier than in real life, so I go with that and have not opened that horrible recognition manual for ages :ping:

LiveGoat

11-20-09, 05:47 PM

Nice work, Karamazovnew. I've never played the U-Boat addon before but now I might if it a whirl.

karamazovnew

11-20-09, 06:23 PM

It's strange... When I had >200 items to add, sure it was a pain in the neck and I didn't have experience, but at least it went smooth.
Now, I can joggle with entire groups and intertwine them as I like and I have only a few items to add, but each one of them is proving to be more difficult than the Minotaur's maze.
I was so happy that the entire periscope page was very clean, with absolutely no weird stuff. But now... :har: even I have trouble understanding what's going on there. And it's not because I don't understand what to do, but because some items obey no rules. For example the horizontal bearing dial sits on top of any other item, and it doesn't scale it's tga regardless of what values you put there. The Reject button resets the TDC, the stadimeter also modifies the temporary AOB :o, and other crazy weird zulu things. I guess my favourite is that if you place the Reject button in one of the aob/range/speed pages, when you click on it that page becomes invisible, but the button itself blocks and you can't click anywhere anymore :haha:. But this is just smug talk, I've solved everything, although I did have to cut some corners. For example the AOBF inner wheel will be allowed to move only if you press in a certain place, not anywhere inside it. This is because every button item automatically has a "Needs-Focus" thing that screws it up. And there are plenty of them there: the Reject, the Stadimeter, the Ship button and the panel autohide buttons. Oh, and of course, pressing the Ship Button has a bug (default SH4 bug). If you press it, it does flip to the page of the ship, and it does try to show the manual but only manages to display the horizontal scale under the ships :haha:. Oh well, minor things.

I'm tired and I'll have a few hours of work before I can finish the AOB wheel. Then I can finish up. Here's the latest screens :hmmm: damn, again the photoshop contrast strikes again. It looks brighter in the game:

Daytime:
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/4514/dayperi.th.jpg (http://img509.imageshack.us/i/dayperi.jpg/)

The small green circle near the bearing is the stadimeter button, it lights up green when the stadimeter is on. On the other side of the bearing dial is the button (dark grey) for showing the aob wheel.

Night time with AOB wheel:
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/6894/nightperi.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/i/nightperi.jpg/)

Now you can clearly see the red circle at the right of the bearing which now hides the aob wheel (it's the reject button). It works seamlessly. Also note the lit marks on the lens. And yes, I know that the bearing indicator is small, as I said, it can't scale up with resolution, but on lower resolutions it's much bigger (because the pixels occupy more screen space). You have the TDC bearing vernier dials anyway. Oh, did I mention that the depth vertical dial doesn't work? It took me many hours to give up on it. I've moved the original offscreen, but it's easy to put it back for those who want it. Too bad, that new background sure looked nice. :haha:

makman94

11-20-09, 07:33 PM

a m a z i n g ! ! !

congratulations Kara !!

about the contrast 'problems' you have with photoshop: have you ever try the paint.net ? i am using this and i think that you will not have any problem at contrasts with this programm

PS: just one tiny thing.....make the needle for the torpedoes panel facing the opposite side

karamazovnew

11-20-09, 08:06 PM

Thanks, it must be something from my drivers. If I make a screenshot int he game it's very dark. But if I use Print Screen it's ok.
Don't worry, I'll change the handles for both panels, I'm not done yet :haha:.

Schultz

11-21-09, 06:34 AM

Well get on with it ! Great job

looney

11-21-09, 04:23 PM

You guys do know you got to do a tutorial also on this new aob thingy ;)

karamazovnew

11-21-09, 07:25 PM

Blah... didn't do any work today... Hitman, mind if I use your Ujagd 1.3 aob wheel? It's better centered than the one I ended up with in ACM Reloaded. Yours are a perfect fit and have extra markings.

@ Infernos: sir yes sir.
@looney: yes, I plan to also include a good documentation with basically the following info, but with pictures:

How to best profit from having the AOB displayed in the periscope screen:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=151431

How to use the AOBF wheel (this one is written specifically for the one I made in ACM Reloaded): http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1139690&postcount=191.

Each AOB wheel is different depending on the camera setting of the mod, the zoom level for which it's made, the layout of the marks and in my case, for the aspect ratio of the screen (because my marks are not hardcoded to increase by 1.2 ratio). But the basics are the same, the only thing different is where to place the height marks. In some cases you need to double the mast, in others you need to double the length marks. In this mod however I'll use the exact same layout I used in ACM. But I've found that <1000m, most ships cover just too many marks so I will include 2 transparent wedges so you can use 1.5X zoom and 6X zoom without dividing manually by 4.

Now as I said, the dial object for the AOBF will not cover the periscope. I will either create a small rotating knob to control the inner disk, or you'll just click in a certain place and drag left and right, not sure yet which works best, I'll try them tomorrow. The good news is that you'll be able to move the periscope freely and also use the stadimeter while having the aobf displayed. I'll also use the precise markings from ACM Reloaded. Who doesn't want them can simply hide them from the menu.ini file. G'night....

Hitman

11-22-09, 03:57 AM

Hitman, mind if I use your Ujagd 1.3 aob wheel? It's better centered than the one I ended up with in ACM Reloaded. Yours are a perfect fit and have extra markings.

Sure, you can make any stuff I have made public without even asking me before :up:

Be aware however that my original templates were not mathematically accurate to a 100%. If you need higher res images, PM me with the details and I will see what I have lying around in the HDD

or you'll just click in a certain place and drag left and right

That's how it worked in real life. You can easily see in the picture the lever that was grabbed with the fongertips to drag the wheel.

:rock:

looney

11-22-09, 06:04 AM

P.s. I meant it as a joke cause I loved the thingy OLC did. yours looks equally good.

Main problem I see is that there are no lengths given in the reccon manual.

karamazovnew

11-22-09, 12:12 PM

Thanks Hitman, the problem I see with the aobf is this:
When in the default position, all the mast values are perfectly aligned to the range values, all around the circle. But if you divide by a specific value (for example if you align 50 range with 100 mast, or 20 range with 100 mast), at the bottom of the circle, the values no longer match perfectly. For example:
The image on the right is is at 100/100, the image on the left is at 100/50
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/4646/17866962.jpg (http://img248.imageshack.us/i/17866962.jpg/)

The amount of displacement depends on the multipying factor. Since most ships have a height of around 25 and most shots are made at about 8-10 marks on the stadimeter, this can throw the range off by up to 50m. But it's not critical, since the human error value when using the stadimeter will be far greater anyway and they shou;d well compensate eachother (you'll always tend to exagerate the number of marks).

When moving the inner dial I'm not concerned about making it historically accurate :D but for ease of use. I don't want that dial to reset when moving the mouse or act weird. It's a far greater problem than I anticipated and it has been keeping me busy the entire day.

Looney, don't worry, I've got an answer for just about everything: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=153143. This will prevent me though from releasing multiple versions of the mod. Since any change to the roster can crash the game. I'll just make the one for OM and offer it to Lurker, if he wants to include it in his mod so that I don't have to update it every time he updates OM. I'll make a full documentation about how to include the mod in other mods.

PS: I won't go to bed until it's finished. I want to play!!!!!

lurker_hlb3

11-22-09, 03:49 PM

I have already built the .cfg files with the length set to meters for all the ships in OM. Just waiting for this project to be compeleted then I'll roll it in OMEGU

markdenny

11-24-09, 11:40 AM

Any news yet been stuck in port for nearly a week now waiting for this, dare not go out as i'll miss it, could take weeks to get back and Donitz wants me back on patrol asap i said i cant till ive been upgraded with new scope etc.He's threatning to have me shot :arrgh!:

karamazovnew

11-24-09, 01:36 PM

It's done :D, I can't believe it myself. The AOBF has been infernal to say the least. I'll post it in about 2-3 hours. Mind you, it will still count as beta test until I'm confident there are no bugs. There are many errors in the aob wheel, but so far I've found that they just counteract eachother. I've yet to get more than 50m or 5 degrees aob errors. Here's the final pic before release:

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/5342/finaler.th.jpg (http://img413.imageshack.us/i/finaler.jpg/)

The upper transparent wedge is used at 6X zoom, while the one at the bottom is used at 1.5X zoom (just a simple 1/4 division). The red wedge between them is for the speed calculation. There are 2 different AOB wheels, one for 4:3 resolutions and one for 16:9 resolutions (released as a mandatory fix). The precise markings are similar to the ones I've made for ACM Reloaded. Thet don't light up at night but you'll be able to change the color easily. They show marks in 1 degree increment. The horizontal ones are already doubled. But If you want to calculate them at 1.5X zoom, then you'll have to multiply the already doubled number by 4. Now back to work :|\\

karamazovnew

11-24-09, 04:52 PM

KiUB alpha 3.0 download link: http://www.filefront.com/14991961/KiUB%20Alpha%203.0.zip

Mandatory fix for 16:9 resolutions: http://www.filefront.com/14990103/KiUB%20Alpha%203.0%2016-9%20Res%20AOBF.zip.

Important:
1. DO NOT apply this mod directly unless you have the latest OMEGU 210 fix 3 or the normal OM V210. I'll make a documentation soon on how to implement this interface in other mods.
2. DO NOT apply the 16:9 rez fix unless you plan to use 16:9 resolutions.

This mod only changes the german Attack Periscope Screen. Apart from a minor change to the bearing indicator, you should not see any new items in the American interface. It also changes the zoom level of the camera in both periscopes. The Observation Periscope can be changed to any zoom value, I just made them the same because they were the same in real life. I've replaced the Speed entry in the recognition manual with the Length data. The data is in meters and no, I won't remake it in any other units. I'll post a short "How to use" guide in a few minutes. Enjoy...

markdenny

11-24-09, 05:53 PM

karamazovnew

11-24-09, 06:42 PM

Just downloaded this superd looking mod taken out alpha 2 replaced with new one and ctd take out the new one and replace with alpha two version and all is fine.Whats the problem please help omegu is all at the latest spec. :wah:

Yeap, my bad.... I had RFB and RSRD below the OMEGU mod and so I included ships in the Sea folder that don't have anything to do with OM. I've deleted the bad folders and also removed the Nomograph from the Nav Map since I won't use the RFB files without their permission. I honestly hope there aren't any more incompatibilities. I'll check them with winmerge but it will take me some time to download OM. I'd better get myself the normal OM files this time, not the ones for RFB...

What I don't understand is this: why didn't the alpha 2 version cry for the nomograph file? It was a small error that still allowed me to enter the game, but still...

EDIT: oh now I get it.... Curses! Its the one from OMEGU. Phew... I'll still download both just to be sure there's no more screw ups. I'll post a fix for the nomograph soon. I hadn't enabled the easy plotting variant and it used the files in RFB :D

karamazovnew

11-24-09, 10:02 PM

This Alpha 3.0 version offers a complete working alternative to the original interface. If you use the one of the resolutions below, you can already start to play.

Planned for Alpha 4.0 release:
- miliradian periscope marks
- reworked AOBF wheel to work with the above marks and also made smaller to fit inside the viewfinder, which will allow this mod to work on all resolutions.
- reworked background that will unfortunately no longer keep the general viewfinder size on 16:10 resolutions (you'll still have alpha 3.0 if you prefer it as it is).

Unfortunately this Alpha 3.0 version will only work correctly for 4:3 and 16:10 resolutions. My decision to use a scaling factor of 1 instead of 5 for most items in the background (including the AOBF) was evidently a mistake. I would have to rethink my approach and remake most of the items I've put since Alpha 2. But that won't happen for 2-3 more weeks. I apologize to any that can't use any of the following resolutions:

Supported and tested resolutions:
- 1024x768
- 1152x864
- 1280x800 (needs the wide rez fix)
- 1280x960
- 1600x1200
- 1680x1050 (needs the wide rez fix)
- 1920x1200 (needs the wide rez fix)

Supported but untested resolutions, any resolutions X*Y where X/Y=1.333333 or X/Y=1.6 (needs wide rez fix).

Here are the download links:
Download link, main files (Updated 11-25-2009, at 6:40 GMT): http://www.filefront.com/14996233/KiUB%20Alpha%203.0.zip

Mandatory files for wide rez resolutions: http://www.filefront.com/14990103/KiUB%20Alpha%203.0%2016-9%20Res%20AOBF.zip

User Guide (how to use the AOBF, how to use the TDC for easy attacks): http://www.filefront.com/14992013/KiUB%20User%20Guide.zip

Important:
-DO NOT apply this mod directly unless you have the latest OMEGU 210 fix 3. I'll make a documentation soon on how to implement this interface in other mods.
-This mod contains a Sea folder that might conflict with your roster of ships. This folder is not an integral part of my mod but it's there so that you can see the length of the ships in the recognition manual.

This mod only changes the German Attack Periscope Screen. Apart from a minor change to the bearing indicator, you should not see any new items in the American interface. It also changes the zoom level of the camera in both periscopes. The Observation Periscope can be changed to any zoom value, I just made them the same because they were the same in real life. I've replaced the Speed entry in the recognition manual with the Length data. The data is in meters and no, I won't remake it in any other units.

Wilcke

11-25-09, 12:24 AM

This is what I am seeing. It works, no CTD but I have those two open areas where I can see ocean, u-boat and crew walking about. When submerged I see the ocean going by.

I am running 1920 by 1080 Widescreen, with the Rez Fix. I just downloaded your newest fles.

Rel_SH4_Trans-Atlantic_Radio
Setup Trans-Atlantic Radio and BBC
OpsMonsun_V705
OMv705_to_V720
OMEGU_v210
OMEGU_v210_Hotfix3
KiUB Alpha 3.0
KiUB Alpha 3.0 16-9 Res AOBF

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e294/tascaso/SH4Img2009-11-24_210123_500.jpg

karamazovnew

11-25-09, 12:34 AM

Damn... I forgot that 1920/1200 doesn't mean 16:9.... :damn:. This is indeed a problem. I'm not even sure if the marks remain the same. :damn:. Can you use it at 1920/1200 or any other 16:10 resolutions till I figure out how to fix this?

EDIT: yeap, the marks differ. DAMN... this isn't an easy fix, but I should have it by thursday night.

markdenny

11-25-09, 09:58 AM

Since the second download all is okay on my boat again fantastic mod looks good works brilliantly many ,many thanks for all your hard work,Donitz is happy again that ive put to sea. :D

Wilcke

11-25-09, 10:42 AM

Bill.Braskey

11-25-09, 10:46 AM

Just want to say thank you for all of your hard work, this is making the German addon worth it!!!

Hitman

11-25-09, 11:29 AM

Wilcke

11-25-09, 11:35 AM

karamazovnew

11-25-09, 11:48 AM

I'm getting CTD with this last version while loading the game, at about 75% progress of the loading bar. No messages, no anything. Only mods installed: OM, OMEGU 2.10, OMEGU 2.10 Hot Fix 3 and of course KiUB 3.0.

Running 4:3 standard ratio, at 1400x1050, OMEGU up to 2.10 HF 3 runs perfectly without KiUB 3

:damn:

I can't test that resolution. On other 4:3 resolutions does it CTD? Maybe the game's engine doens't like to scale down images at that resolution :hmmm:. The game uses 1024/1024 type textures (meaning that they are not stretched at 1024x768). However most of mine are 1600/1600 so that they look best at 1600x1200 (or 1920x1200). A fix would be to resize the textures by a factor of 1600/1024 (1.5625) so they don't scale down anymore, but up. Please try it at 1024x768. If it doesn't CTD I'll resize them myself and post a fix.

karamazovnew

11-25-09, 12:10 PM

I've played all day today at 1920x1200. So far, with the exception of a corrupted convoy save (with and without my mod) it's been fine. The longest shot I took was at 4000m. Hit with both eels smack in the sweet zones. At first I thought the AOBF was wrong because my visual estimates of 40-60 AOB were dead wrong and I was getting calculated AOBs of 20-30 degrees. But I went with it and each ship passed along my bow at a perfect 90. I guess I'm not used to SH4 graphics. In Sh3 it was much easier to estimate AOB by eye :haha:. And on one attack every AOB reading I took was of about 25 degrees even though I was already on an intercept course. Only later did I realise that the ship was changing course :o.

A trick I found on 16:10 resolutions is that you can close the panels by clicking just where the handles connect to the panel. That way the AOBF doesn't reset anymore. If this also applies to 4:3 resolutions I'll stretch those handles a bit so that they're easier to click on top of the panel. A good routine would be to:
1: Lock and ID the target, a bit hard since the lock breaks often (not my fault)
2: Click the ship name to browse to that page. After that only open/close the recog manual from the keybind.
3: open the AOBF
4: Lock on target to use the stadi (which btw only works if the ship's name is displayed, otherwise it's a sign that the game doesn't know there's a ship there).
5: After you start the stadimeter take a fast reading of height and also of the length. After that just let the lock break off or switch it off manually. Don't move the scope anymore. Make the calculations (I can do them in 20 seconds now with a bit of practice).
6: Enter the data into the TDC and switch the autoupdate on again. Only now can you freely use the scope again. You can now close the AOBF.
7: If you calculate the speed, either make sure the TDC isn't showed, or, try to click the handle at the metal edge so it doesn't click on the AOBF.

BTW, on my last attack I was right on track, just waiting for the ship to cross my 000 gyro. And nothing... I look at the target, dead in the water. WTF? SHe was doing 5 knots a minute ago... I change course but the track angle is bad (45 degrees). So I go in close at 700m and let loose a magnetic eel. I follow it with my cam and here's what I see...

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/9706/mine1m.jpg (http://img524.imageshack.us/i/mine1m.jpg/)

They've built those mines worse than I've built my mod :D

lurker_hlb3

11-25-09, 12:34 PM

Found the following issues. The .cfg files for JpGunboat01, JpGunBoat02, Msn013, and SCSSubchaser are from RSRDC and not stock. When used "without" RSRDC the system will CTD.

heidelbergensis

11-25-09, 12:50 PM

Hi... I´m using 1280 x 1024; that is, 5:4 ratio..:oops:

Probably nobody is today using this resolution for gaming already.¿Could I do somethink to adapt the mod to my resolution? It´s the maximun allowed on my monitor....

karamazovnew

11-25-09, 01:15 PM

I've update the release post with new info...
Damn, I really wanted this mod to work on all resolutions. To understand WHY it doesn't work on all resolutions: the original background image is scaled up uniformly from 1024x768 until it's sides hit the edge of the screen. The same thing happens to the hard coded periscope marks. I wanted the background image to have the same look on all resolutions and for the viewfinder and marks to take up the exact same space. But since the 3d image behind is zoomed up, 2 things happen:
1. the side images that I used to "Stretch" the background remain too small and gaps appear (should've thought of that)
2. the ships become bigger and so my fixed marks are no longer correct. To fix this I have to change the AOBF, both inner (the marks circle) and the outer (the speed wedge position).

Thanks Lurker... that should explain Hitman's CTD. I swear RSRD was off, maybe it was a JSGME delete bug.. I'll delete the files from the archive and repost it. :salute:.

Heidelberg.. sorry but no. My monitor doesn't support that resolution so I can't see what's going on there... If your monitor can handle 1280x960 without stretching you'd just have small bands under and above the view, but otherwise it would work correct.

Hitman

11-25-09, 01:39 PM

Found the following issues. The .cfg files for JpGunboat01, JpGunBoat02, Msn013, and SCSSubchaser are from RSRDC and not stock. When used "without" RSRDC the system will CTD.

Cheers Lurker :DL will delete them before enabling and see what happens :up:

karamazovnew

11-25-09, 01:45 PM

Note to self... reinstall SH4 from scratch, enable the base mods, test and only then post :oops:.

I've updated the main file. Hitman please tell me if this solved the problem.

Hitman

11-25-09, 01:57 PM

I will download it later, but for now I can say that deleting the whole sea folder (I couldn't find all units pointed by Lurker, so I went for the safe side) makes the mod run perfectly :yeah:

A huge thanks to your for this outstanding work, that has brought me back to SH4 Uboats :up:

karamazovnew

11-25-09, 02:12 PM

A huge thanks to your for this outstanding work, that has brought me back to SH4 Uboats :up:

The irony is that your Ujagd brought me back to SH3 one year ago :har:. SO consider it a special dedication.

lurker_hlb3

11-25-09, 02:16 PM

Note to self... reinstall SH4 from scratch, enable the base mods, test and only then post :oops:.

I've updated the main file. Hitman please tell me if this solved the problem.

I "strongly" recommend that you not include any of the IJN naval units. I don't think the BDU wants Japanese warships sunk. Also in the first post of the OMEGU thread, I advertised that "stock" RSRDC user can use OM+OMEGU at the same time.

auricom

11-25-09, 03:35 PM

hey I know it's still in alpha, but great mod nonetheless.. looking forward to seeing the AOB wheel added to this .. been using it for 3 days now and it seems pretty stable..

karamazovnew

11-25-09, 05:22 PM

hey I know it's still in alpha, but great mod nonetheless.. looking forward to seeing the AOB wheel added to this .. been using it for 3 days now and it seems pretty stable..

Check the download link in my sig... It has the AOB wheel. Although I call it alpha 3.0, it's pretty much complete. There's nothing else to add, and I'm waiting for more bugs to show their ugly head and if not, for Lurker to implement it into his Omegu. In other words, it will always be an "alpha" because I don't consider it to be a stand alone mod. :up:

karamazovnew

11-25-09, 11:21 PM

It's so nice to know wtf you're doing in this game :haha:. The GWX lessons have prepared me well. There's a certain fresh feel, I can't put my finger on it but it's almost as if I'm playing SH5. It takes a few seconds for any order to go through, the view distance is just huge, the water.. ah the water... love those 11m wind waves. The ships have good turning inertia zigzagging in a straight line (as if that's gonna help them). I can finally punish those annoying greek ships that troll around Scapa Flow. My Type IX deck gun plows through the enemy hulls. The crew feels more alive (particularly since I need to move them around so much). Even the enemy seems improved. I've already seen destroyers coming to the aid of crippled ships. Sometimes an aircraft comes in to look at me, then 2 hours later they bring friends. And, if I'm stupid enough to keep my course, I get a few hunters hungry to avenge the downed airmen. On my first patrol of a new 1 January 1940 career I've received the Knights Cross for smashing 80k tons. Until now the interface had prevented me from playing OM. Only now can I appreciate what a piece of art it is :salute:. Now on to the OM forum to complain about bugs :haha:.

And talking about bugs, how are you guys doing? Got the hang of it?
By the way, a short advice for old SH3 players... if your AOB calculation seems wrong compared to what you see through the periscope, plot a 90 degree intercept course, save, then let the ship pass by. If your stadimeter and AOBF calculations were done properly and the ship didn't spot you or changed course, I'll eat my hat if you're more than 10 degrees off. I've mistook true 15 degrees AOB for 45 degrees visually estimated AOB. By the way, some ships tend to alter their speed and course. I've shadowed ships going at 6 knots, intercepted them only to find at the last moment through calculations that they were doing 10 knots. Cheeky bastards :haha:

looney

11-26-09, 01:53 AM

karamazovnew

11-26-09, 02:42 AM

only problems I have found so far is: the stadimeter and aobf wheel buttons are to dark (I can change that but i have no clue how to).

Plus I need to remove the tdc controls even though I'm on a 16:9 screen 1600x1050 IIRC.

and that I'm unable to get a solution due to the fact I haven't used it correctly :).

This mod is a real kewl one though and I know I will be using it mostly from now on.

Most important problem: your resolution. 16:9=1.777777, 1600:1050=1.523809. My mod only works for 1.333 (4:3) and 1.6 (16:10) resolutions. I'm still thinking about how to fix this in one go.
Check the download link post again (my signature). Surely there must be one resolution there that you can use until then.

Did you read the guide? I've said there that you need to edit the Data\Menu\Karamazov\Peri_Buttons.tga file if you want to make the buttons brighter. Since the image is manly black, you can select the left side of the image and work with the Levels. Or increase contrast. On my screen with neutral gamma I didn't want them to be bright. I actually have no clue how my images look on other screens, even though I've wasted many hours trying to get the look just right. I guess you all have time till next week to tell me if you want them darker/brighter.

Hitman

11-26-09, 03:16 AM

Would you consider doing a version that is stripped out of the AOB wheel and stadimeter and has instead just a reticle in milliradians, instead of degrees? I can provide you the reticule if you want, but stripping out the AOB wheel is more your work. Should be done in a few minutes, however, since it just involves deleting unnecessary stuff.

I'm asking this because in real life not all attack periscopes had the split prism stadimeter and AOB finder. That was available in the early A10 Standsehrohr, but later the cheaper and faster to produce versions simply featured the reticule. I have becomed so used to that in my own SH3 interface, that I would prefer it like that, and may be I'm not the only one :DL

Oh, BTW, the lettering "Stangenfernrohr" in the periscope label is wrong, in real life it readed "Standsehrohr". I'd recommend adding "A10" in the model that has the AOB finder implemented, for the reasons I explained above :up:

looney

11-26-09, 04:40 AM

Most important problem: your resolution. 16:9=1.777777, 1600:1050=1.523809. My mod only works for 1.333 (4:3) and 1.6 (16:10) resolutions. I'm still thinking about how to fix this in one go.
Check the download link post again (my signature). Surely there must be one resolution there that you can use until then.

Did you read the guide? I've said there that you need to edit the Data\Menu\Karamazov\Peri_Buttons.tga file if you want to make the buttons brighter. Since the image is manly black, you can select the left side of the image and work with the Levels. Or increase contrast. On my screen with neutral gamma I didn't want them to be bright. I actually have no clue how my images look on other screens, even though I've wasted many hours trying to get the look just right. I guess you all have time till next week to tell me if you want them darker/brighter.

I've read the guide and it tells me to change some file but I don't know what to change. Now I know where the buttons are, it aint to big a problem I now only need to learn the new tools.

one more thing I remember (I'm at work atm) is that the bottom part of the AOB wheel (outer ring) is unreadable when the order bar is docked.

karamazovnew

11-26-09, 04:40 AM

@Looney: Do you plan to attack ships with a mast height or a length of between 7 and 14 meters often? I can't make the AOBF any smaller or it will start to cover up the periscope image itself (Including the stadimeter and cancel buttons :D).

@ Hitman
The Stagenfernrorh label is a part of the original texture files. Not my fault :haha:.

I can easily move away every item and leave a clean background with a circular viewfinder. I can integrate your milirad reticle into the periscope marks. Since the AOBF will be out, there will be no reason to force the center of the screen to retain it's 4:3 aspect ratio. I could let the background scale as it does in Vanilla and such a mod would be compatible with any resolution. What I need however is for you to make me a reticle that is based on my camera (angular distance 72, zoom levels 1.5X and 6X) at a resolution of 1024/768 and the lines whould be just 1 pixel thick. Waiting for a PM (and a guide on how to use the reticle). :haha:

looney

11-26-09, 04:54 AM

LOL see that must come from 1 of my tests yesterday evening late.. I couldn't get a propper solution.

I'm attacking a large convoy west of spain in my type IX in november 39.. and I've reloaded that game several times cause I'm messing up..
Plus I'm getting redicoulous duds (last test was out of 6 torps 4 duds and 2 misses :( ) Normally I play DiD and stuff but with my new AOB wheel it's nice practice ..

The amount of "slide"panel does is that adjustable easy?? I'm willing to adjust it so it can be added as a fix for 1600x1050 same with the button settings (they should be a bit brighter )

karamazovnew

11-26-09, 05:04 AM

LOL see that must come from 1 of my tests yesterday evening late.. I couldn't get a propper solution.

I'm attacking a large convoy west of spain in my type IX in november 39.. and I've reloaded that game several times cause I'm messing up..
Plus I'm getting redicoulous duds (last test was out of 6 torps 4 duds and 2 misses :( ) Normally I play DiD and stuff but with my new AOB wheel it's nice practice ..

Just to make sure, you are using one of the supported resolutions right (and have added the wide rez fix only if neccesary) right? Anyway, you must've got something wrong if you're aligning marks with a 7 meter mast height :har:). If all else fails, check out OLC's video tutorial on how to use the AOBF. You'll get a much better understanding of the concept.

looney

11-26-09, 06:25 AM

I used OLC's a lot and thought I knew/remembered how to use the AOB wheel but I was wrong.. thus I need to read the guide again. perhaps even print it :)

apart from the sliding thingies and the buttons haven't found a real bug yet. I'll test the mod more when i get back home.

I'm using 1680x1050 with fix... sorry for the mix up

Hitman

11-26-09, 12:59 PM

I can easily move away every item and leave a clean background with a circular viewfinder. I can integrate your milirad reticle into the periscope marks. Since the AOBF will be out, there will be no reason to force the center of the screen to retain it's 4:3 aspect ratio. I could let the background scale as it does in Vanilla and such a mod would be compatible with any resolution. What I need however is for you to make me a reticle that is based on my camera (angular distance 72, zoom levels 1.5X and 6X) at a resolution of 1024/768 and the lines whould be just 1 pixel thick. Waiting for a PM (and a guide on how to use the reticle). :haha:

You got PM :up:

BTW, would it be possible to provide me the image you used for the periscope background without the ruber rim of the eyepiece, and one of the TDC WITHOUT dial holes and dials (i.e. as a solid, textured block)?

I have an idea on how I could port this excellent mod to SH3 if you grant permission for it :D and if I ever get time, but clean backgrounds would be a must.

Thanks

heidelbergensis

11-26-09, 01:03 PM

karamazovnew

11-26-09, 08:07 PM

I really expect that this mod remains as only an option in OMEGU. If not, as my sistem cannot work with the sole two aspect ratios covered by it, I would be forced not only to not have this mod, but not even have any of the OMEGU features, maybe even no Monsun at all.

I´ll deinstall then the game; I´m not interested in the US scenario, and I don´t plan to change my hardware only because of this game.

A comment worthy of greek tragedy. Relax, it's still an alpha. I could've taken my sweet time and not post anything until it was done. So far, Alpha 3.0 offers a complete solution to any using the suggested resolutions (I expected it to work much worse, yet here I am with a few Knights Crosses in as many patrols with it). As I've said a few posts back, there's nothing else to add to the interface, I just need to tweak it. Adding or moving objects in the SH4 interface is easy. But rewiring them to create new objects is NOT. But that part IS done so it will be much smoother now for me since I know what to expect.

The final version might actually be less good for wide rez screen users as for them the panels will take up a bigger chunk of the viewfinder than they do now. I myself will continue to use Alpha 3.0 because it's tailor made for my resolution.

Hitman, I'll post a download link with the requested panel when I get back on Monday. If you need, I can also rerender the dial plates at any requested resolution and put them in a PSD file as layers with their own masks. The idea of the miliradian reticule is so good that I don't want to use them as an optional set of marks. So far it was impossible to use one WITH the aobf. But since I need to rework everything in Alpha 3.0, I'll make them as a default set of Marks. Since you have much more experience than me at this, I'll count on your help with them and a proper AOBF testing :up:.

looney

11-27-09, 10:14 AM

those green marks where can i edit that file ... I'm thinking about adding vertical / horizontal lines for easy height guessing :)

and could you tell me what values to change to make the buttons lighter ,

I also am willing to edit the sliding part of the boxes. IF you tell me how :)

P.s. the sliding bits should only move as little as possible ... a shame though they rule. But i rather have the added functionality

heidelbergensis

11-27-09, 11:41 AM

....Yes, maybe a post a bit overdone :rotfl2: .... That I wanted to express was a claim for the possibility of further updates of OMEGU without the mod, understanding that maybe it is impossible to adapt it to any of the infinite possibilities for aspect ratios, or simply that it would need too much work to cover all and every particular case....

Maybe even just the opposite would be right; the "official" version having the new interface, and an option simply removing it if needed.

Or I could simply accept at the end of the day to use 1024 X 768 (Yeck!) only for having this wonderful interfaz that deserves to be in SH5 as stock:D ....

auricom

11-27-09, 12:50 PM

Nice1! installed 3.0 -- works great

Gonna try to get the hang of it this weekend, then I think I will finally be ready to tackle the dreaded 'full real' :)

lurker_hlb3

11-27-09, 02:42 PM

....That I wanted to express was a claim for the possibility of further updates of OMEGU without the mod.

This will not be possible. The next version on OMEGU ( v300 ) has been completed and I'm currently in the process of doing the "paper work" ( Readme ). At this point karamazovnew outstanding work is a part of OMEGU.

heidelbergensis

11-28-09, 06:26 AM

1024 x 768 then.....OK.:DL. No problem.

karamazovnew

11-28-09, 10:13 AM

@Auricom: manual firing is the cream of the game. Have fun :salute:

@Looney: There are 2 sets of marks. AP_Marks.tga contains the normal marks that lit up at night. A few posts back I explained how to configure them (how to change their brightness and color). AP_PreciseMarks.tga contains the more detailed marks that you see on the AOBF. It's simpler in that the color you put in the RGB channel is the color you'll see all the time in game. The marks themselves are contained in the Alpha Channel. What is black is transparent and what is white shows up on the screen. If this explanation and looking my files doesn't clear it up I suggest you pick up a few tutorials of Photoshop. To make those buttons easier to see you should work with Contrast and Levels. It's not an exact science. Play around with the values until you like the result. Not sure what you mean by "sliding part of boxes". The handles? The speed? How much they slide into view?

@Heidelberg: I understand and agree with what you said the first time. The fix will not take much space and will only replace a few graphic files and a few lines in the menu_1024.ini file.

looney

11-28-09, 12:06 PM

Play around with the values until you like the result. Not sure what you mean by "sliding part of boxes". The handles? The speed? How much they slide into view?

How much they slide into the view.. allthough I seem to have worse problems.. I think my HD is going to quit on me soon so i will figure the mod out ltr

heidelbergensis

11-28-09, 12:33 PM

Well, Karamazov....all that I can say is that you are not only a genius but also a gentleman. Thanks a lot.

And if it´s too difficult, please don´t worry...I already concluded that is better to play low res with your firing computer that higher res without it.:)

karamazovnew

11-29-09, 09:21 AM

How much they slide into the view.. allthough I seem to have worse problems..

The handle items will always move their parent left or right by a certain amount. Once I parented the handles by mistake to the main screen and it pushed my entire interface offscreen :har:. The amount of movement is equal to parent's width. The direction of movement depends (i guess) on which side the handle sits. But if you change the parent width you'll also screw up all the dials. So unless you make a new panel from scratch, there's no solution.

Well, Karamazov....all that I can say is that you are not only a genius but also a gentleman. Thanks a lot.
I don't consider myself to be a gentleman, but thank you :arrgh!:

karamazovnew

11-30-09, 01:19 PM

Back to work. I've transformed the scope marks to work as miliradians. They were made with excel formulas and done to a less than 1 pixel precision at 1600x1200 resolution. Just to recap, a ship of a height of 10 meters at a range of 1000 meters will span 0.572938698 degrees vertical. Tangent(0.572938698)=0.01. Since the tangent function is almost linear at low angles and the marks only span around 11 degrees at 1.5X zoom, a linear formula can be used based on that value:

by Hitman
The reticle is calibrated for low power (1.5x zoom). With that zoom, count the number of marks the target covers horizontally or vertically (mast), and use following formula.

Estimated target heigth(or length) / scale x 100 = Distance

Example: A destroyer with a 25 metres mast covers 10 marks in the vertical scale.

25/10 x 100 = 250 metres

If you were using high power (6x zoom) you would need to multiply the result by 4. Thus the distance would be 1000 metres.

Here's a test at 1024/768 (it is identical to any other resolution). The tanker in the image is 28 meters high, 190 m long, is at 1000m (precisely) and has an aob of perfect 90 degrees.

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2397/milirad.jpg (http://img148.imageshack.us/i/milirad.jpg/)

And here's something weird. This is the Bismark with a mast of 57 and a length of 251. This was made at 1920x1080, but it's the same for all resolutions. Notice that the heigth is a correct 5.7 milirads.:

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5544/apmarks2.jpg (http://img137.imageshack.us/i/apmarks2.jpg/)

But the length should've been 25.1 milirads long. But it's not. Same marks, same formula. At first I thought my formula needed to change for length marks. And indeed, the formula for half angle tangent (required for the simmetry of length around the Lock position) leads to a value of 0.572953021 and not 0.572938698 but the error is laughable 0.0000143229. Conclusion? The Bismark in game has a wrong length of almost 280 meters. How many ships have wrong values I have no idea. So I hope that someone will start making a TMT mod for SH4 as it's badly needed.

Hitman

11-30-09, 02:47 PM

Very nice precission, I told you that something weird was going on with ship dimensions :up:

Anyway, why didn't you use the same reticle style as the one I sent you?

Mine is positively one installed in a real german Uboat periscope, while yours -the one that can be seen frequently in period videos- is 99% sure a fake added while filming.

karamazovnew

11-30-09, 03:09 PM

You're right, I will. I wanted to do it myself from scratch because to be honest I wanted to understand the mechanics behind it. Since 2 people ended up with exactly the same thing (I did an overlap just now, even with a scaling issue it was still <1 pixel difference), at least we know that the marks are fine. Indeed there is something strange with the ships. I did some speed tests on the Bismark, at different AOB's, ranges. I used automatic formulas to get the length from the time of pass... It varied from 250m to 270m while the TDC showed no changes in the speed. I'd be damned if I can tell what's going on. I'll use the file you've sent me now that I'm 100% convinced that it's perfect. I'll also only use it with Excel formulas to remake the AOBF wheel. Do you have by any chance an AOBF wheel made for milirad marks?

Hitman

11-30-09, 03:25 PM

Do you have by any chance an AOBF wheel made for milirad marks?

Nope sorry, but isn't the only difference the point where you must read to get the result? :hmmm:

karamazovnew

11-30-09, 03:29 PM

Actually I was hoping for just an outer circle that doesn't have this problem:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1207458&postcount=156

Nisgeis

12-01-09, 06:33 PM

I did some speed tests on the Bismark, at different AOB's, ranges. I used automatic formulas to get the length from the time of pass... It varied from 250m to 270m while the TDC showed no changes in the speed. I'd be damned if I can tell what's going on.

Did the ships appear longer, the further the AOB was from 90 degrees?

karamazovnew

12-01-09, 08:52 PM

Did the ships appear longer, the further the AOB was from 90 degrees?

I didn't notice that. I only applied the fixed wire method for a ship of known speed to extrapolate it's length. But the ships do seem to be wider than in SH3. There I could estimate the AOB visually within 10 degrees accuracy. Here however... :doh:.

makman94

12-02-09, 03:28 AM

hello Kara,

i measured the Bismarck in sh4 and i found that its length is 270m
i see that in .cfgs its length is setted at 251m so i can definetely say that the length for Bismarck is not right

keep up the real good work :up:

makman94

12-02-09, 03:59 AM

something else that i noticed is that if you press on ship's name (in order to bring up the rec manual) the only thing is showing is that length's bar of rec manual .
if i clic on recmanual icon then its ok ...the rec appears
is it possible to make the rec manual appear when i clic on ship's name ?
and also the length's bar of rec is displaced . if it is hard to place the length's bar to the proper place then i think that can be putted tottaly outside of screen (as this bar is not needed at all)
see the pics:
http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh372/makman94/kara1.jpg
http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh372/makman94/kara2.jpg

karamazovnew

12-02-09, 11:07 AM

makman94

12-02-09, 11:39 AM

Thanks Makman. The recognition manual problem is hardcoded. You'll see the exact same behavior if you go to the Obs Scope or UZO and press on the "SHIP:" label in the notepad. The first time you click it, it works, after that it just shows the small scale and it doesn't go away unless you open up the manual by hand and close it again. For example, for me, the scale under the ships has never been in the right position. I had already explained this small quirk in the small guide. Unfortunately, since I had based and tested the AOB inner circle from my readings on the Bismarck, you can guess what it did to the precision :wah:.

my thought is that the u-jagd rings are well made as it was in original images ( a very tiny misallinged marks there when turn the inner ring 180 degrees but really this is not big deal)
what is needed ,imo, is to find a ship with correct dimensions and see if the original rings works (without changes at the rings set)
if there is not even one ship with correct dimensions then you will have to find the correct dimensions for one ship
i can find the real mast for the bismarck if you like and then use this ship as a guide for the rings (although ...i believe that the rings are ok with its original set)
the problem with the sh4 is that i cannot import the malloys ruler in the game in order to be able to get the EXACT distances on map ( i used some 'time eaters' tricks to confirm the true speed of Bismarck in the mission i created to use for finding its true length ) (becuase ,sometimes , you set the speed- in ME - at 6 knots BUT ,for some reason that only the sh's cursed engine knows,the ship is not doing EXACTLY 6 knots ingame!)
but i can do it (i think ) to get its real mast ...have to try it
do you want me to ...proceed ?

Hitman

12-02-09, 12:00 PM

becuase ,sometimes , you set the speed- in ME - at 6 knots BUT ,for some reason that only the sh's cursed engine knows,the ship is not doing EXACTLY 6 knots ingame!

Yeah, part of the problem is that ships start mission at zero speed and accelerate, and this tends to screw the results. :hmmm:

makman94

12-02-09, 12:22 PM

Yeah, part of the problem is that ships start mission at zero speed and accelerate, and this tends to screw the results. :hmmm:

yes Hitman,thats why the ship must be set to start its 'trip' far away from us !
but ,again, i remember when i was creating the TMT mod that for some reason and only for SOME ships was not doing EXACTLY the setted speed (always for these measurments the wind was set to 0).probably has to do with its settings at their .sims (engine power...etc)...i really don't know

Nisgeis

12-02-09, 04:43 PM

For any ship in SH4, there are three heights, the historicaly accurate height of the ship in question, the height (or is it length) set in the config file and the height of the 3d model. None of these dimensions have to (and often don't) match up. Same goes for lengths. The only way to check the model you are testing is to export it from S3D, measure it in a 3D program and that's the length/height to use in testing.

EDIT: Oh yes and you can't measure height accurately ever, due to some very poor mechanics in the game.

DarkFish

12-02-09, 05:33 PM

The only way to check the model you are testing is to export it from S3D, measure it in a 3D program and that's the length/height to use in testing.you can measure using S3D too, one unit in S3D is 10m.
e.g. if you place a node at the bow of a ship and the coordinates are 0;0;3.2 and you place a node at the stern, coordinates 0;0;-2.8 the length of the ship is (3.2-(-2.8))*10=60m

Nisgeis

12-02-09, 05:43 PM

Yes good point, absolutely right DarkFish, you can do that, but I was thinking mainly that if you have Max, or similar, it's much faster to export and click measure, than it is to try to place nodes and nudge them into position. I should rephrase that the only way to see what length the ship is in game, is to measure the 3D model in some way :DL.

makman94

12-02-09, 08:48 PM

oh Darkfish...if only i knew that when i was making the TMT.... i would have save a lot of time ! ( where are these infos when you need them...).VERY GOOD METHOD you pointed !:up:

@Nisgeis: you can get the length in game .i measured Bismarck's length and found it 'close' to 270m .i am saying 'close' becuase the clock in sh4 is showing only seconds (without demicals) .the time that Bismarck needed to cross the vertical line of peri was something between 87-88 sec .i took it as 87.5 and then length=(6x87.5x1.852)/3.6= 270.08333

i measured it again with the method suggested by Darkfish and the s3d showed length=270.9
the difference is not big deal (the cause of the difference is the exact time that Bismarck needed to pass the vertical line.the exact time was 87.75 and not 87.5 that i guessed it was).BUT if i knew the method that Darkfish suggested i would for sure used that method...you save a lot of time . so, both methods work and that proves that there is not only one way to get the real length (real for the game ...not for real life)

about the mast value:

the mast value that you will set at .cfgs is the value that also the player will see ingame. and this value is exactly the value ( and the only one ) that the game is using to calculate the range (and the player via stadimeter).so,if the mast value is wrong at .cfgs then the calculated ranges will be also wrong . and it doesn't matter if it is a value for mast , you can choose any spot of the ship as a 'hot' spot to aim with stadimeter ( angle....mast...range)
and yes, you can find the accurate mast value (especially at sh4 which has better resolutions) .the only thing that you need is..patience (and as i said,it doesn't have to be the mast's height ...you can choose any part of the ship...the more vissible is..prefered like flags or funnels in some cases)

s3d (or 3d programmes) doesn't seem very helpfull at getting the real mast becuase you don't know where the waterline is for each ship. their .sims files are controling the part of the ship that will be above ( or under) the water and each ship has its own settings at .sims .BUT it will be very nice if someone find a way to get them from s3d . if this happens then it will be a piece of cake the fixes to ships's dimensions
but as i was writting this post .... i remembered something (but i am not sure about this)...someone has allready made some fixes for ships's dimensions for sh4 or no ?

karamazovnew

12-03-09, 02:53 AM

I don't recommend starting until I come up with the new marks and AOBF. If we can trust those we'd be along way into solving this. I'm away from home now but have difficulty sleeping when I think about them :D. An Angular Angle of 72 looks just right and I'd hate to change that but a milirad reticule will be way too big for it. If I make the viewfinder bigger, it will be cut off at the edges on some aspect ratios. But if I leave it as it is I can't convert it to fake a 18 degree Hollywood look (the horizontal and vertical line meet at 18 degrees up/left). And the fake reticule had 0-2-4-6 etc marks which would be too spaced apart. And since I had to move the AOBF inside the viewfinder, I don't want to see any marks. But when I go to an Angular Angle of 80 the original marks show up at the edges. Drives me nuts :damn:.

:hmmm: Wait a sec... I leave it at 72, use the real reticule but move the horizontal part up, make the view finder just a little bigger, then adjust the AOBF inside to cover the marks and fill any outside gap with black. That way I can keep the Stadimeter, the Ship name and the Reject Button outside the AOBF without making the damn thing too small. YES :haha:, can't wait to get home. By the way I've figured how to solve the handle thing. If you want I'll leave the current ones as a visual reminder of where to click at the sides of the screen. But the actual buttons will be invisible and bigger than the panels. When closed, you can click anywere at the sides of the screen to make them appear. When opened, you can click any empty part of the panels to hide them (except for dials and buttons, ofc). :yeah:.

Oh by the way, the panels... do you think they're too bright? I might go with a simple black background with a rubber lens rim and they look just too bright and foggy to me. I think I migh tincrease contrast a bit and lower brightness for most tgas :o

Nisgeis

12-03-09, 10:20 AM

s3d (or 3d programmes) doesn't seem very helpfull at getting the real mast becuase you don't know where the waterline is for each ship. their .sims files are controling the part of the ship that will be above ( or under) the water and each ship has its own settings at .sims .BUT it will be very nice if someone find a way to get them from s3d . if this happens then it will be a piece of cake the fixes to ships's dimensions

The waterline is the origin of the ship, so, you should be able to measure the height of the mast in S3D that way.

Be warned though, that the ship will 'sink' into the water the further the camera is from the ship, so that will spoil accuracy as the larger the range error will be as the waterline will appear higher and higher.

lurker_hlb3

12-03-09, 05:59 PM

I have determined that the following procedure will provided an "accurate" mast height for the .cfg

Using S3D create a "test" node and slave it to the main ships node.
Place the "test node" on the keel under the "tallest" mast and note the "y" value.
Move the "test" node to the top of mast and again note the "y" value.
Determine the total number of units from keel to mast top and multiply by 10 to get the length in meters
Open the .sim file with S3D and note the "draught" under unit_ship/obj_hydro/Surfaced and "subtract" the value you generated in the last step.

I have conducted a number of different test today to "validate" the mast height are correct.

During testing I noted that the values for mast height and ship length for ships for OM will have to be redone as they are inaccurate. I will start working on this shortly

makman94

12-03-09, 06:52 PM

lurker_hlb3

12-03-09, 07:41 PM

hello Lurker,

as i have measured the mast height for Bismarck (and it is for sure correct after a lot of testing in the game) ...i found it 55.55m
but i couldn't find this value via s3d .please measure the bismarck's mast with your method and tell me your result

Please note that all my testing has been on merchant, however I just looked at the Bismarck and there is a "0" value set in the "draught" field in the .sim file. However the value in S3d from the 0 "y" value to the top of the "after mast" is 5.52 which works out to 55.2 meters.

I personally know that a value in the "draught" field will effect were the ship 3d model sits in the water during game play.

Just to let you know the type of testing I did, I pick three merchants at random from the MFM add on in v720 and used the procedure I presented in my last post on each one. Then using the Mission editor created "map zones" of 500, 1000, 1500, 2000, and 2500 meters and placed each of the modified ships on each of the circles and had the ships set to "docked" so that can't move. After launching the single mission set to "manual targeting" mode, ID each ships via the rec-manual and then using the "stock" Stadimeter generated "range" estimates. In all cases the range error was less that 0.05 percent.

Also I conducted test on the "length" values for these merchants. When using S3d to measure from the Bull Nose ( front of the ship ) to the fantail and using those values for ships length to calculate ships speed, the soluation was within .01% of true speed.

FYI the tool I used to confirm my "Length/speed" findings was "Solution Solver 1.3.2 by gutted"

makman94

12-03-09, 08:16 PM

Please note that all my testing has been on merchant, however I just looked at the Bismarck and there is a "0" value set in the "draught" field in the .sim file. However the value in S3d from the 0 "y" value to the top of the "after mast" is 5.52 which works out to 55.2 meters.

by 0 ''y'' value you mean the keel of ship ?

I personally know that a value in the "draught" field will effect were the ship 3d model sits in the water during game play.

i know that too and i tottaly agree with you

Just to let you know the type of testing I did, I pick three merchants at random from the MFM add on in v720 and used the procedure I presented in my last post on each one. Then using the Mission editor created "map zones" of 500, 1000, 1500, 2000, and 2500 meters and placed each of the modified ships on each of the circles and had the ships set to "docked" so that can't move. After launching the single mission set to "manual targeting" mode, ID each ships via the rec-manual and then using the "stock" Stadimeter generated "range" estimates. In all cases the range error was less that 0.05 percent.

it is better for your ingame tests to make missions with NOT stationary ships.the stadimeter has a limitation and that is its pixel by pixel movement.by that i mean that the calculate distance via stadimeter is not 'continuesly' (sorry for my english) ...by that i mean that the calculate distance is 'jumping' from one measurment(that will keep it for some time there) immediatelly to the next one (that will keep it for some time there)and so on...
so it is better to have a moving ship and take ranges periodically .
what i do is this :
put the ship (about 4km away) and set its curse at 270 and make itso that when it pass in front of our nose (we are stationary and our course is set at o degrees) to be at a distance about 1km
then i run the mission with auto targeting enabled and start write down the given distances from the sh4 (these are the real distances) at 60,55,50.....,5,0 bearing.
then run the mission again but with the manual targeting enabled and start taking ranges via stadimeter at 60,55,50......,5,0 bearing(these are the fake distances)
then use this formula for each bearing : realmast=(fake mast x real range)/fake range where fakemast=the mast value that the game is currently using
then you have the 'realmasts' for each bearing and you calculate the middle one of these

Also I conducted test on the "length" values for these merchants. When using S3d to measure from the Bull Nose ( front of the ship ) to the fantail and using those values for ships length to calculate ships speed, the soluation was within .01% of true speed.

you are talking about the method that Darkfish suggested, right ?
yes, this method is absolutely correct...i checked it to some ships and works fine !

lurker_hlb3

12-03-09, 09:55 PM

by 0 ''y'' value you mean the keel of ship ?

No. The "0" on the y axis is the "start" position, If it was the keel it would have a "negative" value. In the case of the Bismarck it is -1.03

As far as your "moving" ship test, your basically using an old surveyor's trick of moving the "level rod" back and forth as he looks through the "level", When the level rod reaches its lowest point that will be the "height" above the ground.

However the procedures I have outline are accurate for determining "mast height"

makman94

12-04-09, 05:03 AM

No. The "0" on the y axis is the "start" position, If it was the keel it would have a "negative" value. In the case of the Bismarck it is -1.03

ok , i got it now!
when the draught=0 at .sims then all you have to do is to measure the mast height with a node attached to hull and no need to measure the keel (i couldn't get it becuase i was using a node attached to the mast).
for the other ships ....just a thought for you Lurker .when we see at a ship ,for example, draught=9 does the sh4's engine is putting the hull of ship 9m into water or the box of ship ?

As far as your "moving" ship test, your basically using an old surveyor's trick of moving the "level rod" back and forth as he looks through the "level", When the level rod reaches its lowest point that will be the "height" above the ground.you don't understant my method and certainly has nothing to do with what you described but thats ok,no need to discuss it further(i didn't post it as a better method but.... just for sharing)
if the mast values you are getting via s3d are acurrate then everything is ok (and for sure you are saving a lot of time),it was about time to be made some fixes to ship's dimensions for sh4
the irony is that all these good things for sh4 (and was exactly some of the things that kept me away from sh4-ubm) are happening one day before sh5

ubi must understant one day that the priority is the gameplay and not only the graphics

anyway, i would for sure use this mod (i have allready said that this is the best mod ever made for sh4) when and if ever play the sh4

karamazovnew

12-05-09, 06:46 PM

God I'm so excited right now, I just have to share this. I've just finished moving the last item and I only have 3 more tga's to remake :yeah:. Just a few more hours and I can finally hang up my gloves :haha:. Rescaling the background items proved to be difficult but well worth the result. The mod now works at any aspect ratio, the AOBF is much smaller and it's much harder to click something to reset it (although because of hardcoding, the Stadimeter still resets the AOBF). I've removed the panel handles. To show the panels all you need to do is click the sides of the screen. To hide them just click any unused part of the panels. I've remade the background to be sharper but more weathered with metal scratches and chipped paint. As soon as I'm done I'll send the files to Lurker so pray that he tests it fast at releases it as a fix for OMEGU 300. No more Alphas this time guys...:yeah:

karamazovnew

12-06-09, 06:22 AM

DONE... packing it up now and sending it to the right person :up:

Here's a double pic showing half of the AOBF. This is taken at a 25:16 aspect resolution :haha:
http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/2311/kiubfinal.th.jpg (http://img338.imageshack.us/i/kiubfinal.jpg/)

looney

12-06-09, 09:27 AM

Looks great... but will the half aob wheel not mess up our solutions ;)

(sorry had to make a stupid remark)

karamazovnew

12-06-09, 09:55 AM

Looks great... but will the half aob wheel not mess up our solutions ;)

(sorry had to make a stupid remark)

Damn, I had my left eye closed!!! :damn: Must remake it again! :haha:
What I wanted to show there was that I had to add a black padding around the aobf which reduced visibility to 30 miliradians wide. It's more of an issue on 4:3 resolution.

lurker_hlb3

12-06-09, 10:33 AM

karamazovnew

12-06-09, 10:39 AM

I assume that the 16-9 Res Fix is no longer required

That's right, in fact I can retract all support for the Alpha 3.0 version (plus the fix). I'll delete the files from filefront as soon as possible.

Wilcke

12-06-09, 11:11 AM

lurker_hlb3

12-06-09, 06:00 PM

karamazovnew

12-06-09, 08:30 PM

Roger that, I've updated the first post... :up:

Wilcke

12-06-09, 09:00 PM

Awesome work! Just downloaded the Patch for OMEGU, and your work is perfect. Running 1920 by 1080, 16:9 aspect ratio. It works! Thank you!

EgoApocalypse

12-07-09, 03:31 PM

Work without a glitch and looks great. Thanks:yeah:

heidelbergensis

12-07-09, 03:36 PM

works superb also in 1280*1024.....At last! Thanks another time!:yeah:

karamazovnew

12-07-09, 11:49 PM

Thanks all, that's good to hear. Well, I promised to share the tools I used to make this mod. I've updated the first post with an archive containing:
- one PSD file with all the dials in very high resolution + the metal background without holes.
- one excel spreadsheet that I used to place all the items. It's main purpose was to check the actual position on screen even though the Zone line doesn't need those values. However it's not that easy, you'll still have to do some calculations and enter data manually. It's pretty useless for SH3 but not quite, as in the Zone line you can still see the actual position in pixels on screen. More info on how to use it is written inside it and the headers have tooltips.
- one word document template which I used to renumber the items in the menu.ini file. If you don't know how to enable macros in word i will be useless. hsie made a java tool that didn't work for me so I had to improvise. It works for both SH3 and SH4.

crisi

12-08-09, 01:54 AM

@karamazovnew: excellent mod You have created. It's planed to redesign the observation persicope?

karamazovnew

12-08-09, 05:40 AM

I don't see any point in changing the other scope or the UZO. I admit I had planned to do this, but it would take too long and SH5 is just months away. I believe that this attack scope provides all the necessary items for easy but rewarding manual attacks. Plus I have an engineer degree to worry about. :yawn: Plus, I want to actually PLAY the game :haha:.

looney

12-08-09, 10:18 AM

I actually like the choice in aiming :)

My pc is fixed now only reinstall all *Sigh* what a crapload of progs I had to make my life easier :)

lurker_hlb3

12-08-09, 10:21 AM

EgoApocalypse

12-08-09, 10:51 AM

LOVE IT............

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff92/A_COLOHAN/Hunt.jpg

karamazovnew

12-09-09, 06:39 AM

All right peeps, second patch is up. Download link in the first post. These are only a few image files so the patch can be applied during patrols. Features:
- deleted the extra 'r' in StadensehroRhr
- made the periscope marks HIGH REZ. The old ones were made starting from 1024/768 and were scaling up, also scaling up the rounding errors. The new ones start from 1920x1200 and scale down. Their accuracy is 100% perfect, with no rounding errors whatsoever and they can be used as reference to check the masts and lengths with total confidence.

I recommend changing the Binoculars to have an Angular Angle of 72 and zoom level of 10. This will maintain a smooth mouse control and make about 130 meter FOV at 1000 meters, as a true 7x50 navy binocular has.
Also, I recommend changing the Data\Cfg\commands.cfg file (either the SH4 one or the SH3 one, whichever you use) to have the following code. It will make the torpedo open/closed switches update instantly and free up the W key. The "Open/Close selected torpedo tube" still work as unkeyed commands, in case you have special buttons in the orders bar.

[Cmd308]
Name=Open_torpedo_tube
Ctxt=1

[Cmd309]
;Name=Close_torpedo_tube
Ctxt=1

[Cmd310]
Name=Open_sel_torpedo_tube
Ctxt=1

[Cmd311]
Name=Close_sel_torpedo_tube
Ctxt=1
;Key0=0x57,,"W"

[Cmd312]
Name=Toggle_open_close_torpedo_tube
Ctxt=1
Key0=0x51,,"Q"

Note about masts and lengths recalculation: what I recommend is making a custom mission with 4 static ships surrounding the submerged sub, all at 90 degree port AOB and all at 1000 meters away from the boat. Use high zoom to check mast and Low zoom to check the length. Having fixed periscopes and 0 speed wind will help a lot too. Using 16:10 resolutions would also be better.

The new KSMF ships seem to have their height value linked to the Funnel, not the masts. Probably a lesson learned from SCAF or RFB.
For example, the K-KM-KF-KM Merchant has a MAST of 30 meters (NOT 22.5) and a length of 140m (NOT 150). The funnels might be a better place to calculate the height anyway. Precision is not paramount at this level because the player can't place the AOBF precisely anyway since the Marks circle has few values. So errors of .5m for masts and 2-3m for length are not a problem. I also recommend indicating on each ship image which mast should be used as reference.

karamazovnew

12-09-09, 06:52 AM

EgoApocalypse: WTF?! What version are you using? That's the background used in the Alpha 3.0! Get your ass to Lurker's OMEGU thread and download his patch to get KiUB 1.1. Then apply my 1.2 patch. NOW!

lurker_hlb3

12-09-09, 07:41 AM