[WIP]: Reducing light transmission for Attack-Peri

[h.sie]

Hello,

I'm currently working on an update of my selfmade GUI, called hsGUI.

In Hitman's documentation about German Optics I read, that the Attack Periscope (AP) has a lower light transmission than the Observation Scope (OP) and because of that the OP it better for night attacks.

I wanted to simulate this issue, because up to now I never used the OP and so I want to give both Periscopes a balanced usefulness.

Now, with my tweak, at dark nights the AP is nearly useless, as intended, and one is forced to use the OP.

Comments are appreciated....
h.sie

Some Screenshots:

OP at daylight
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9260/opday.th.jpg (http://img193.imageshack.us/my.php?image=opday.jpg)

AP at daylight
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1403/apday.th.jpg (http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=apday.jpg)

OP at night
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/8492/opnight.th.jpg (http://img530.imageshack.us/my.php?image=opnight.jpg)

AP at night
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/30/apnight.th.jpg (http://img190.imageshack.us/my.php?image=apnight.jpg)

[Venatore]

Looks good from where I'm sitting matey.

[SeaWolf U-57]

good idea hope you get on well with it :up:

[TarJak]

I like it. Not much use for the ob scope until now.:up:

[Bill Nichols]

Most excellent. The effect you are reproducing is very realistic.

[h.sie]

Thank you! Work is almost done!

If there is interest from GUI-modders, I could help to integrate that functionality into other GUIs or SuperMods.

h.sie

[Hitman]

H.sie, that looks very nice but here's a suggestion for improvement: The lower light transmission is not linear, i.e. not all the objective loses light the same. It must be brigther in the centre and darker in the edges, slowly transitioning from bright to dark.

Use my documentation for whatever you want :up:

[h.sie]

Thank you, Hitman,

but if I follow your suggestion, I'm afraid that the usable viewport becomes too small if I make the border more dark. Isn't it small enough in stock sh3? But I'll search for historical documents with photographs which show a view through the attack peri. do you have something like that?

h.sie

[Hitman]

but if I follow your suggestion, I'm afraid that the usable viewport becomes too small if I make the border more dark.

A periscope has a lower light transmission near the side of the field, but nothing absolutely dark. Just darker. This effect should be more noticeable in the attack periscope than in the observation periscope. If you want exact percentages of light transmission near the side of the field, follow this table (This is from an observation scope, for an attack scope you should reduce them overall 15-20% more):



High power without reflector 41.4 per cent. Low power withoutreflector 41.2 per cent. High power through reflector 31.1 per cent.



I'll search for historical documents with photographs which show a view through the attack peri. do you have something like that?


Not exactly, and they are nearly impossible to get. I have contacted museums, and even the Zeiss corporation, but most WW2 info/pictures about german periscopes is lost. I also soon learned that "historic" pictures around the web aren't always authentic.

Here is a very rare example of footage where you can actually see through a periscope (camera objective is placed against the eye`piece):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYvdqMlKzko&feature=PlayList&p=E21306FD24BF91A2&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=72

Go forward to minute 4.04

And here is a real through-periscope picture, not of a german one, but close enough:

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/1844/periskopbild.th.jpg (http://img197.imageshack.us/my.php?image=periskopbild.jpg)
Another one, from a US TBT binocular, with the correct light transmission effect showing:

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/9792/bowfintbt.th.jpg (http://img197.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bowfintbt.jpg)

[Rubini]

That is great; as a suggestion perhaps the difference from both could be not so big, just enough to make the difference at night, nothing more.

Another idea to make the OP more usefull could be making it a meter longer than the AP. This way in all heavy sea states the OP will be more strategically usefull than the AP. But i don´t know if this is modable or even if this is realistic or not.:hmmm:

[h.sie]

Thanks all. The trick is very simple, so simple, that I fear to tell details about it: I simply put a semi-transparent grey .tga-file after all other [G26 Ixxx] entries for the AP in the menu1024.ini.

This .tga file of course could be edited to fit Hitman's and Rubini's suggestions:

a) Not so dark at all
b) More dark at the border , less dark in the centre

Perhaps it could be coloured a little bit green?

I'll see what I can do. First I've to get familiar with Paint.NET or similar.

h.sie

[NGT]

Hello h.sie

nice idea, indeed.

If I understand well, by night the obs peri will be used for attack. So, the TDC Slideout should stay in this interface, yes? [and, all the stuff for manual targeting captains...]

And, in this case, even by day, the attack peri is "useless", no? Why ones will use the attack peri, if the obs is "all we need"?

By the way, thank you for everything until today (Thomsen's ships, etc.):yep:

Keep up the good work. . . and SH3 ! :rock:

Hope you understand my bad English.:-?

[h.sie]

Hi NGT,

From Hitman's document: "Those (=Observation) periscopes allowed better light transmission and were as such intended for observation and night attack purposes."

It was my attempt to give the OP a sense. I have never used it and it does not even have an icon on the stations main menu. (In my hsGUI, it has an own icon!)

I wanted to make it as useful as the AP, but not better.

AP = better magnification but for the price of a lower light transmission
OP = lower magnification but better light transmission.

At daylight you must attack from a larger distance, so the higher magnification of the AP (GWX: 10x) is fine and the lower light transmission does not bother much.

At night you can attack from a nearer distance, so the lower magnification of the OP (GWX: 4,5x) is fine and the better light transmission is needed.

Now for me both periscopes are different but both are equal useful, depending on the situation.

h.sie

[Letum]

Don't rely on periscope photos as reference for the brightness.
It has far more to do with the camera exposure used.

[Hitman]

I simply put a semi-transparent grey .tga-file after all other [G26 Ixxx] entries for the AP in the menu1024.ini.


Yeah well, you can also do that directly in the Alpha channel, and it saves you having to add -and the game having to load- a new graphic. Though your solution is very good for making quick tests, changing only minor things.

Don't rely on periscope photos as reference for the brightness.
It has far more to do with the camera exposure used.

That's true for the overall level of brightness, but the transition to a darker colour on the sides is however probably proportional enough. In any case, I also posted above a table giving true measured values of light transmission with a photometer :up:

[h.sie]

Hi Hitman,

I tested your suggestion to reduce the transmission more at the borders and less in the centre. it looked awful, because one could see concentric circles of color contours, although I changed the alpha value very softly in the .tga file from center to border. Homogenous looks better although surely not as realistic as your suggestion.

where else can I cange the alpha-channel?
I did it in the tga-file using a paint-program.
Is it possible to do it in the menu.ini?

COLOR = 0xFFFFFFFF or like that?

with

0xFF=RED / 0xFF=GREEN / 0xFF=BLUE / 0xFF=ALPHA value ???

thanks,
h.sie

[onelifecrisis]

I tested your suggestion to reduce the transmission more at the borders and less in the centre. it looked awful, because one could see concentric circles of color contours, although I changed the alpha value very softly in the .tga file from center to border.

Try this: when creating your TGA, use dithering.

[h.sie]

thanks, olc. perhaps it works!

[Sailor Steve]

Brilliant! Well, not so much, but that's the point, eh?

I wanted to make it as useful as the AP, but not better.

AP = better magnification but for the price of a lower light transmission
OP = lower magnification but better light transmission.
NO! Read Hitman's work further. The game is wrong - both periscopes had the same magnification. The main difference is what makes the light transmission different in the first place - the Attack head is smaller to make it less visible to the enemy.

Personally I always make myself 'walk' to the conning tower before I use the attack scope. This makes the obs scope much quicker and easier to use, just as it was in real life. No clicking on hot-link buttons.

Still, I'm looking forward to this. It looks pretty cool.

[h.sie]

Hi Sailor Steve,

I've read about the magnification, but my work (which will be added to my hsGUI) is primary a work/addition for GWX, and in GWX the magnification is 10x for AP and 4,5x for OP. I don't know why the GWX-Team set it to 10x. But I don't want to change this, because I don't want to fiddle around with the camerats.dat and the little periscope marks which have to be changed if magnificaton is changed.

h.sie

[makman94]

I don't want to fiddle around with the camerats.dat and the little periscope marks which have to be changed if magnificaton is changed.

h.sie
helllo H.sie,

don't worry about the little periscope marks .they are not changing if you change magnification

[Rubini]

Hi Sailor Steve,

I've read about the magnification, but my work (which will be added to my hsGUI) is primary a work/addition for GWX, and in GWX the magnification is 10x for AP and 4,5x for OP. I don't know why the GWX-Team set it to 10x. But I don't want to change this, because I don't want to fiddle around with the camerats.dat and the little periscope marks which have to be changed if magnificaton is changed.

h.sie
I can speak by the 10x magnification because I was at GWX team at that time. This was made exactly because the flags are impossible to be recognized at night even near the ships (unless you are really very very near them). So, to put some workaround on this game limitation matter we made the 10x. But perhaps now, as we are discussing on other thread, using DD idea, we can then fix this flag at night problems and then the correct historic magnification will be usefull and enough again!

[h.sie]

Does anybody know, if it is already simulated in SH3, that the attack peri has a smaller head and so it is less visible to the enemy?

If it's not yet simulated, perhaps anybody has an idea how this could be modded?

[Weisia]

I really don't have any modding experience, but would it be difficult to make your mod also compatible with hitmans optics and NYGM 3?

[h.sie]

no, it can be easily made compatible to any gui-mod. maybe I'll post a do-it-yourself manual.

but currently I'm searching for information regarding historical correctness. so please be patient.

[Hitman]

currently I'm searching for information regarding historical correctness

What info do you need? May be I could help :hmmm:

[h.sie]

@Hitman: Many thanks for your help offer. "historical correctness" was inexact. I meant, that I have to find out first, if the smaller head of the attack peri and the lower visibility for the enemy is simulated in SH3.

If not, the attack peri gets too much disadvantages through my mod compared to the obs peri and there will be no reason to use it.

Historical correctness is important, but one must consider the limitations of the game.

So I begin to doubt, that my idea is a good one.

[Hitman]

AFAIK, yes it is simulated via the "Surfacefactor" parameter, which determines probabilities of being detected depending on how much of your U-Boat (Any part of it) is presented to the enemy. However, I doubt much that there is a real big difference between attack and observation scope in that regard in SH3, because the size of the scope head is small in both cases.

In real life it was not just the size of the head, but the different size of the wake thye caused. The observation scope obviously raised more water, causing a much more visible wake.