[REL] S-Class Dazzle skin

[runningdeer]

K-CLASS ZEBRA camouflage skin for all S-class boats in SH4.

I saw a request for a camouflaged sugar boat. I thought it might be a fun project, and a way to contribute to subsim and you all. So I did some research and came up with this skin. My googling only turned up one photo of a K-class boat done in a ZEBRA paint scheme. I based my skin on this one photo and other information that I gathered on camouflaging early war boats. Not much was available on submarine's that were done in camo. It was used primarily for ships.

I wanted to be as historically accurate as I could. I hope that I accomplished that with this skin.

First is the photo I found online. Showing the "K-2" or (SS-33)...pre-war. 1916. Looks like a prison boat, lol. But it is an actual boat and was what I had to go on.

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1939/o16.jpg


Early war
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2941/s18dazzleearlywar2.jpg

Early war 2
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4834/s18dazzleearlywar.jpg

Late war
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4690/s18dazzlelatewar.jpg

Late war 2
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/8185/s18dazzlelatewar2.jpg

Of course this skin doesn't effect the games AI. But its kinda cool. From what I gathered of dazzle camouflage, it did not improve a submarines attack, and probably wasn't as useful as it was on a ship. I think i would have wanted one that was the same color as the pacific ocean, but what do I know? :O:.

I hope some of you enjoy the mod. This is my first mod and upload. I am new to skinning. Having learned from tutorials found here at subsim and from all the replies to my thread(s). Thanks all. Especially ichso & tei for taking extra time to explain things to me.


UPDATE:

Early war - tower skin refit:

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/5120/earlywartowerrefit.jpg

Late war - tower skin refit

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8373/latewartowerrefit.jpg

JSGME ready, available here:

SUBSIM: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//downloads.php?do=file&id=1205

FILEFRONT: http://www.filefront.com/13930199/K_CLASS_ZEBRA_CAMO.zip

SHMF: http://www.silenthuntermods.com/forum/index.php?topic=149.0

-Enjoy :ping:


(http://files.filefront.com/S+CLASS+DAZZLECAMO+V2zip/;13843784;/fileinfo.html)

[ichso]

Nice work, keep it up :up:

[virtualpender]

Nice work! Thank you.

[Highbury]

Awesome, just awesome. I was one of the people asking for this so I am quite excited. I am sure RR will be as well.

Now, I have USS S-27 parked in Surabaya.. think I will slap this on and go for a patrol!

[runningdeer]

Thanx fellas...my nerves are finally starting to settle down. This is my first mod and upload. But I'm quite sure that all is proper...after downloading and running it myself like 10 times :o.

[keltos01]

nice work !

look at the tower : isn't it dark in the Navy picture ? and the dazzle diagonal on the periscope standarts ?

just a thought, keep up the godd work ! :up:

keltos

[Highbury]

nice work !

look at the tower : isn't it dark in the Navy picture ? and the dazzle diagonal on the periscope standarts ?

just a thought, keep up the godd work ! :up:

keltos

We can just call it a different variation :up: Ships tried and changed Dazzle patterns often. These pic are both the USS West Mahomet, before and after a major refit I would assume as there are some big differences in silhouette, but they are both credited as being the same ship. It may actually be in the yard still in pic 1, and the hull profile is hard to make out.. which was kinda the point.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2224/1990786580_cfe47f8b0f.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2122/1990179210_d2f9c341d9.jpg

That is the great thing with Dazzle for a skinner. Use your imagination, mix it up a bit. runningdeer, while this skin is very good you could certainly play around with other patterns etc. Since this is your first uploaded skin that could give you some good practice if you are interested. In my last post in the Gato thread (where this was requested) I put a link with alot of the US Dazzle systems detailed. I would be perfectly happy with this skin for the rest of my SHIV S-Boating days, but like any greedy bastard I want more more more!

[runningdeer]

Thanx all, for the feedback.

I updated the skin...tower skin refit to include stripes also darkened the tower a bit. However I still had to be creative on the tower, simply because I cannot see the tower well enough in the photo I had to work from.

But the stripes turned out nicely, thanx Keltos... :yep:.

[gimpy117]

looks really cool, nice work!

[U-46 Commander]

Looks Great! What mods are you using by the way? the interface looks different then the stock.

[XTBilly]

An excellent addition!
Very nice.

Thank you !!!:salute:

[runningdeer]

Looks Great! What mods are you using by the way? the interface looks different then the stock.

I use TMO 1.7 with RSRD. The HUD is a mod by CaptainAmerica and is now a part of TMO v1.7.

The HUD is awesome. I think it might still be available as a separate mod. But I'm not sure.

[runningdeer]

This S-Class skin is based on an O-Class boat.

Hi all. While researching for other dazzled submarine types I discovered the correct identity of the boat photo I used as a guide to create this S-Class skin. Previously I thought it was the USS-S39 (USS-144).

It is the USS O-16 (SS-77). An O-Class. I cannot find any photographic reference of an S-class done in dazzle. Perhaps that is because so few were done in dazzle...before the colors black & gray were proven to be the best camouflage color, for submarines.

My goal was to create a replica of an actual S-Class dazzled boat. I cannot find one single photographic reference on a S. If anybody should happen to find one please let me know. Thanks all.

[Highbury]

While researching for other dazzled submarine types I discovered the correct identity of the boat photo I used as a guide to create this S-Class skin. Previously I thought it was the USS-S39 (USS-144).

It is the USS O-16 (SS-77). An O-Class.

It seems info on that boat is confused lol, it is listed as the USS K-2 (SS-33) in these two places:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08492.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_K-2_(SS-33)

[runningdeer]

It seems info on that boat is confused lol, it is listed as the USS K-2 (SS-33) in these two places:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08492.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_K-2_(SS-33 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_K-2_%28SS-33))
Here it is listed as the USS O-16 (SS-77) :

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.pigboats.com/subs/o-16.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.pigboats.com/subs/o-boats.html&usg=__WYNnRoJlVeej6_D6wVQds1XDuK0=&h=226&w=551&sz=18&hl=en&start=29&um=1&tbnid=XKlokl0gI_RL7M:&tbnh=55&tbnw=133&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsubmarine%2Bwith%2Bdazzle%2Bpaint%26n dsp%3D18%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN%26start%3D18%26um%3D1
(bottom of page)

Weird huh? http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3383/cuckoo.gif

[Highbury]

Yeah, I only noticed when looking for pics of any WW2 US subs with camo. I came across the first link I put up and had just read your post saying you had seen it listed as O-16, that made me google the K-2 where I found the wiki link with the same pic.

After looking at the link you just put up, check the pictures of the O-16 above. I think they are actually mistaken. This profile of K-3 looks alot like picture of the camoflaged boat, the other pics of O-16 have a very different profile.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/Uss_K-3_1914.jpg

It looks to me like it is indeed the K Class. I am just learning this stuff myself and it is amazing how many times websites can be incorrect and misleading.

[runningdeer]

It looks to me like it is indeed the K Class. I am just learning this stuff myself and it is amazing how many times websites can be incorrect and misleading.
Yeah...I'm new to this as well. Learning as I go.

So it would make sense that it is a K-class, since ichso's is a K-class. Maybe after the K-class they stopped using the dazzle on subs :06:. I say that because I have not been able to find any other submarine photos done in dazzle. Other than these 2 we are discussing.

You seem to be good at finding photos. Have you found any other submarine photos done in dazzle, besides these 2 boats?

[ichso]

Hm, I think the dazzle camo doesn't make much sense for submarines anyway. Because submarines are supposed to be invisible as long as possible and to dive before they get into sighting range.
But the dazzle scheme was used to irritate enemies, that have already spotted the camouflaged ship. So it's purpose was to make range finding, AoB estimation and stuff like that really hard. But it is still contradictory to not being spotted at all. And the submarine's best camouflage was their lack of a huge exhaust smoke funnel and a large silhouette. That's why they mostly used plain color schemes as 'camouflage'. To fit the assumed color of the ocean under as many different circumstances as possible whereas the purpose of dazzle camo had nothing to do with hiding.

[Task Force]

Nice skin...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2224/1990786580_cfe47f8b0f.jpg
lol, If that wouldnt get a guy knoticed... nothing will.:rotfl:

[runningdeer]

Hm, I think the dazzle camo doesn't make much sense for submarines anyway. Because submarines are supposed to be invisible as long as possible and to dive before they get into sighting range.
But the dazzle scheme was used to irritate enemies, that have already spotted the camouflaged ship. So it's purpose was to make range finding, AoB estimation and stuff like that really hard. But it is still contradictory to not being spotted at all. And the submarine's best camouflage was their lack of a huge exhaust smoke funnel and a large silhouette. That's why they mostly used plain color schemes as 'camouflage'. To fit the assumed color of the ocean under as many different circumstances as possible whereas the purpose of dazzle camo had nothing to do with hiding.
Hi...this might seem like a silly question, but is the color of the Pacific ocean the same color throughout? Or is it green here and blue there kinda thing?

[ichso]

I don't know for sure either but I would guess that the color changes from the coasts to the open ocean at least. And the pacific theater went all the way from north to south for the fleet boats so a camo scheme cannot accomodate for all of that.

Also different daytimes and weather conditions have to be taken into consideration so there wasn't really any camouflage that would make a ship hard to spot during the whole journey.

[Rockin Robbins]

Thank you! Your pics are K-5 with the narrow stripes and K-2 with the wide stripes in 1916. Four subs were used with varying widths of zebra stripes. Testing revealed that all schemes actually made the boats easier to see! I'm going to use the narrow stripe pattern just as soon as I get a chance! This is great! I love both S-Boat dazzle skins! Keep 'em available, please.

There is a tantalizing piece of info over at navsource (http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08492.htm):

Submarine visual camouflage became an issue again before the outbreak of the Second World War. This time the question was not only one of concealing a surfaced submarine, but also of hiding a submerged submarine from aerial observation. Once again, a series of trials was conducted to test various ideas. Tests between 1934 and 1936 were inconclusive. A new series was ordered and took place off Pearl Harbor in mid 1937. Four boats of the old "S" class were used. S-28 (SS-133) was painted entirely black, S-35 (SS-140) was dark blue-gray overall. S-21 (SS-126) was given a coat of dark purple. In a second series, disruptive patterns were used. S-21 carried black and green. S-35 was painted in black, blue and green. For a third, and final, test S-22 (SS-127) was given a pattern of dark blue and black. The conclusion reached from these experiments was that dark blue offered the best concealment in deep, clear, tropical waters. As a result, Commander SubRon 4 ordered boats of SubDiv 8 to be repainted in blue as paint became available. Paint for all navy ships was under the provence of the Bureau of Construction and Repair in the Navy Department and appropriate instructions were covered in the booklet issued by that Bureau known as C&R-4.

[OrangeYoshi]

I understand why you would put stripes on something, (zebras for example) they break up the outline etc. But wouldn't stripes on a ship just make it easier to spot? When you are shooting from a sub you don't really need to see the outline.

[runningdeer]

Thank you! Your pics are K-5 with the narrow stripes and K-2 with the wide stripes in 1916. Four subs were used with varying widths of zebra stripes. Testing revealed that all schemes actually made the boats easier to see! I'm going to use the narrow stripe pattern just as soon as I get a chance! This is great! I love both S-Boat dazzle skins! Keep 'em available, please.

There is a tantalizing piece of info over at navsource (http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08492.htm):
Thank you RR. Just goes to show myself that I need to be more thorough when researching these things.

I found the 'quote' interesting. That a dark blue color was determined to be a good scheme. And it seems natural to use a shade of blue.

Now we have another skin to make :|\\.

[Highbury]

You seem to be good at finding photos. Have you found any other submarine photos done in dazzle, besides these 2 boats?

I put up a book scan in ichso's skin thread of another boat, I don't know the class. There are not many pics, and most seem to be K -Class.

As for Dazzle or any painted camo on submarines, every historical look at Naval camo in the 20th century says it was done to confuse submarines, and subs having them seems pointless. So nobody seems to claim it was logical to put it on subs. BUT they did in fact do it, and in my opinion they look friggin cool if impractical. Since it does not matter one way or the other to the AI in game I will go with what looks friggin cool! :up:

Hi...this might seem like a silly question, but is the color of the Pacific ocean the same color throughout? Or is it green here and blue there kinda thing?

Well I served 3 years in the Pacific, and in my homes in either Vancouver or San Diego I am within a couple miles of the coast. I have seen alot of the Pacific. It certainly changes depending on where you are.

The main reason they came up with Dazzle in the first place was because there is no one color that will work. Look at Navies today, some are grey, some greenish-grey.. some are robin's egg blue. It may be perfect on an overcast day, but you stand out on a clear day etc. Dazzle was the acceptance of "we are going to be seen", so they just tried to make it hard to judge shape, heading, speed etc. Remember these would have only been seen through a periscope and would have looked different then we seem them in the photos.

The pic of the USS West Mahomet that Task Force re-posted just above is the perfect example. Just imagine trying to place the bow on that, in rough seas in the North Atlantic, through a periscope. What Task Force is missing is that nobody expected it to ever conceal, it is meant to confuse.

~ Edit.. All this Dazzle talk really does make we want a WWI subsim based on the SH engine... imagine DDs painted up all pretty like the one in my sig... ahhhh

[runningdeer]

Thanks Highbury.

I think i would like to nail down this dark blue they used. Then skin a sub. :yep:.

[Highbury]

Well the USN had a number for all the colors, and patterns they used. If you can find the number then it would be pretty easy. Actually modelling websites have alot of info on the colors used by USN ships, example:

http://www.steelnavy.com/usnchips.htm

The book discussed on that site about US Camo patterns called SHIPS-2, I have found a link to the 1942 revision 2 if that is of any use:

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/camo/index.htm


Hope that helps

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Why does my Avatar say The Chinese Sailor in Japanese under it? lol

[runningdeer]

Well the USN had a number for all the colors, and patterns they used. If you can find the number then it would be pretty easy. Actually modelling websites have alot of info on the colors used by USN ships, example:

http://www.steelnavy.com/usnchips.htm

The book discussed on that site about US Camo patterns called SHIPS-2, I have found a link to the 1942 revision 2 if that is of any use:

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/camo/index.htm


Hope that helps

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Why does my Avatar say The Chinese Sailor in Japanese under it? lol
Thank you vm...very useful link. :up:

LOL...yeah, well...post a bunch today and by tonight you'll be another character :har:.

Look at my avatars fancy hat :o.

I believe if you contribute $ you can choose a custom avatar.

[Task Force]

Thank you vm...very useful link. :up:

LOL...yeah, well...post a bunch today and by tonight you'll be another character :har:.

Look at my avatars fancy hat :o.

I believe if you contribute $ you can choose a custom avatar.

LOL You got MEDIC!!!:O: well... It could be worse.:rotfl:

[Highbury]

LOL You got MEDIC!!!:O: well... It could be worse.:rotfl:

He is at 168.... his "One Night In Bankok" is comin'... 179 IIRC

[runningdeer]

He is at 168.... his "One Night In Bankok" is comin'... 179 IIRC
I just have one thing to say...

三洋電機が販売している、繰り返し充電して使用できるニッケル水素電池。同じ方式のニ... :D.

[Task Force]

Oah god. language I cant understand.:doh:

(good luck with the Wild night in bankok avatar.)

The pic of the USS West Mahomet that Task Force re-posted just above is the perfect example. Just imagine trying to place the bow on that, in rough seas in the North Atlantic, through a periscope. What Task Force is missing is that nobody expected it to ever conceal, it is meant to confuse.

Aaaah Its ment to confuse.

Lets paint the distroyers Hot pink!:rotfl:

[Highbury]

Lets paint the distroyers Hot pink!:rotfl:

Will a sub do?

http://www.fototime.com/F688DAE8741127B/orig.jpg

Operation Petticoat skins anyone? :D

Back to the topic a bit. It seems the USN experimented with Dazzle (or Razzle Dazzle as it was known in the US) and splinter camo on several subs, but the photographic record is sparse. Where it does exist the black and white photos are only of help to patterns, not colors. As a "realistic" skin, probably stretching it. But if the people who can, and like to do skins are interested it sure gives them a nice canvas to "play" on. Some of us will love them, some won't. But they don't have to download or see them in that case. So if you guys are having fun with it, I say please keep it up. If not, I am pleased with the 2 that you guys have given us and say thanks again!

[runningdeer]

Will a sub do?

http://www.fototime.com/F688DAE8741127B/orig.jpg

Operation Petticoat skins anyone? :D
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109862&highlight=CaptainCox :hmmm:

[Highbury]

I should have remembered that... selective mental block I assume :hmmm:

[captgeo]

Looks Great, nice work:salute:

[runningdeer]

Thank you all for the compliments on this skin. Its great that I could create a little something that might improve game play for some of us here.

I'm new to skinning. I'm new to the historical accuracy of the past wars, digging through archives. And so I learned a lot from this small project.

The historical accuracy of this project was what made it an interesting and exciting skin, for me. I think I learned some things this time around that will make my following projects better.

:D.

[runningdeer]

I was here, to update the readme file, zip archive and download links.

-Changed the I.D. of the class to "K"...cuz it's actually K-22 or (SS-33).
-Uploaded it to subsim for dl. (my first :yep:).

When I made this skin I was just learning how to skin/mod anything. I've since learned more about skinning and plan on coming back to this skin soon, so as to upgrade it's quality with any new techniques I acquire. I'm struggling right now, trying learn 3d modeling and working with S3D, to find better ways to texture.

So i figure I might as well come back to this one, upgrading it when I can, until I get a grip on those other programs.

See ya :ping:.

[captgeo]

I am waitting for anything new you come up with, it would be really cool to have this same patteren with shades of blue.:yeah:

[eljeffo41]

Highbury you are absolutely right Dazzle camo was entirely meant to confuse.From what I read the idea was that since it is impossible to hide something as large as a ship on the ocean, make I.D. impossible.Trying to figure AOB must have been fun as well.I guess it's easy to see why it didn't catch on with subs,but its so cool I think I must have it! Jeff:up:

[Letum]

Highbury you are absolutely right Dazzle camo was entirely meant to confuse.From what I read the idea was that since it is impossible to hide something as large as a ship on the ocean, make I.D. impossible.Trying to figure AOB must have been fun as well.I guess it's easy to see why it didn't catch on with subs,but its so cool I think I must have it! Jeff:up:


That was the idea behind dazzle, but it was quite quickly discovered
that it didn't work during the first world war. All the tests on it produced
no significant positive results.

Why did they keep painting dazzle patterns? I don't know.
A morale boost?
Too much time on the dock worker's hands?
Artistic flare?