Anyone near Melbourne, Australia?

[Madox58]

I'm working on a New Ship and need a few final answers
to get it all right.

It's a Bathurst Class.
It's a one off model built from scratch.
No 'Kit Bashing' on this one.

It will have correctly modeled Guns as the turrets are a stand out shape.
That's one area I lack final information on.

4" B.L. Mk.IX on a CP Mk I Mounting
I know the Gun, not the mount.

Depth Charge Throwers
Where were they located?

PAC Projectors
WTF are those?

A visit to HMAS Castlemaine would answer
the thrower and PAC questions.

Also, what Gun Mount does HMAS Castlemaine now have?
It's not the CP Mk. XXIII Mounting.
Unless it's been butchered up.
:hmmm:

Any help is most welcome and will assist in a very nice
addition to SH3.

[JScones]

Coincidently I was looking at copies of the ship plans only a few months ago - they are on display here at the AWM. I might also have detailed plans stored away somewhere here amongst all my RAN stuff (I know I sent BBW a raft of info a few years ago).

PAC = Parachute and cable. Some (not all) ships would carry two of these projectors. Essentially they're rockets fired from deck that carried aloft a light wire, which the attached parachute then dangled in the air. An attacking aircraft was expected to obligingly fly into the wire, become entangled, and crash.

Also, not all ships in the class had depth charge chutes and throwers.

Anyway, checkout http://smmlonline.com/reference/walkabouts/castlemaine/castlemaine.html for detailed photos of Castlemaine from every angle. Obviously the canvas shades are a post-war addition.

There's also some nice colour photos of HMAS Whyalla on the 'net (inc Wikipedia), which is now a museum ship similar to Castlemaine. Here's one...
http://www.hnsa.org/ships/img/whyalla2.jpg

EDIT: Here's a low quality scan of a copy of the plans for HMAS Bendigo...
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/4347/ls011s.gif (http://img40.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ls011s.gif)

[JScones]

A few more photos that may halp...

The 4" gun currently on Castlemaine, in detail (click photo then click again)...
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/6103/hmascastlemainegun12.th.jpg (http://img38.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hmascastlemainegun12.jpg)

I'm more familiar with the Mk.IX/CP.III combination as shown in the Whyalla photo (can't recall ever seeing a photo of a CP.I mount on a Bathurst though; although it's just a boxier version of the CP.III). I'm know some Bathursts had Mk.XIX/CP.XXIII combinations - which is what the Castlemaine gun photo kinda reflects. Certainly from mid-1943 the Castlemaine had this configuration (emphasis Mk.XIX not Mk.IX). Here is an actual image of the configuration as used on HMAS Cowra circa 1945 (taken from Wikipedia)...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/HMAS_Cowra_gun_crew_%28109986%29.jpg

The difference on the current Castlemaine could simply be due to it being restored from various parts over the years.

A closeup of the stern of a model of HMAS Bendigo, showing the 4 DC chutes - 2 double and 2 single - and the 2 throwers...
http://defencemodels.com.au/Projects/images/DSC07291lrg.jpg
More photos of the model here... http://defencemodels.com.au/Projects/Bendigo.asp including a few showing the Mk.IX/CP.III combination.

[Laufen zum Ziel]

Great reply JS. Members helping members makes this a great forum.:yeah:

[Madox58]

Thanks JScones,

I do have all the images above.
I missed looking close at that model.
So over looked the Thrower placement.
I've also seen pictures where the Throwers are a little bit more to the rear.

But in my research I've found that not every Ship of the class
was standardized.
So that explains differences in the Models.

On the CP. I mount,
Early images of HMAS Mildura and HMAS Lismore
show the mount I thought was the CP. I
There's no Turret of any kind.
Just a Base.
I think the Lismore had a 12 pounder to start
and the Mildura had the 4" BL

Also,
a not so close look at the HMAS Lismore shows a far different
configuration of the Bridge area.
I'm not sure how many were actually built in this configuration.
But I have an image that shows 2 of the 4 Bathurst Class
in the image built this way.

Regards

[JScones]

Yes, configuration varied, due largely to the many different shipbuilders around the country as well as the versatility of the ship. Some general stats of the 56 HMA ships, courtesy of the RAN (I doubt the data is 100% accurate, but it is reasonably consistent in detail for each ship in the class)...

12pdr:
20 ships in the class were originally fitted with 12pdr guns. 15 were replaced with 4" guns at some point during the war, most likely after mid-1943 when the MK.XIX/CP.XXIII became more prevalent.

2pdr:
2 ships were fitted with 2pdr guns. These ships also carried 4" guns.

4":
50 ships were fitted with 4" guns, INCLUDING the 15 that were originally fitted with a 12pdr gun.

20mm Oerlikons:
2 ships were fitted with 2 Oerlikons, 48 were fitted with 3 and 1 was fitted with 4. Some were added/removed throughout the war.

40mm Bofors:
32 ships had the aft Oerlikon replaced with a Bofor at some point, most likely from 1944.

Machine Guns:
42 carried machine guns, most commonly Vickers .303 (or similar) or Vickers .5.

DC Throwers & Chutes:
44 carried DC throwers and chutes.

I did some further detailed analysis based on the commission date, ie what percentage of ships had 12pdrs in 1940, 1941 etc and some other calculations, and derived two "common" configurations:

Early war (pre July 1943)
1 x 4 inch gun (MK.IX/CP.III*)
3 x Oerlikons
2 x Machine Guns (.303)
2 x double depth charge chutes
2 x depth charge throwers
20-30 Depth Charges

Late war (post July 1943)
1 x 4 inch gun (MK.XIX/CP.XXIII)
2 x Oerlikons
1 x Bofors (MK.I I think)
2 x Machine Guns (.303)
2 x double depth charge chutes
2 x single depth charge chutes
2 x depth charge throwers
1 x Radar
40-70 Depth Charges

*Re the CP.III v CP.I, my understanding is that the CP.III differs only in that the gun shield is more rounded. Here's something I just found seemingly stating the same... http://www.cbrnp.com/RNP/Flower/MODELS/05-4inch_guns/05-4inch_guns.htm

Outside of these variations, I am not aware of any specific structure variations, although I guess it'd be quite possible for the ships that were built for the Admiralty (like Lismore) and served predominantly with the RN to have been modified individually in Ceylon to suit RN purposes.

[Madox58]

Here's a few previews of the work so far.
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Platform_2.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Platform_3.jpg
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/Platform_1.jpg

The Skin is just a placer skin.
That means it's not what will be used on the final product.
So no comments about misplaced Port holes and such will mean a thing.
The Red stripes are for smoothing purposes.

It's the over-all looks and proper dimensions I'm after right now.

[JScones]

Looks good. :up:

[Madox58]

Working with the images I can find,
and the low quality plans?

I'm doing the best I can.
I'm actually quite happy with the results so far.
:up:

The Bridge area is coming along nicely but due to
lack of really good pictures I'll have to guess at a few areas.
I doubt many will notice a few mistakes here or there.

The DC throwers and racks will be totally new.
The stock Game versions just don't cut the mustard.
As is the same for the forward Gun.

I was asked to do the Bathurst a long time ago.
I never did it because I just was not good enuff at 3D work then.
I would have failed miserably and this Ship does not deserve
less then a total one off model.
Learning more about how the stock models are constructed,
and working more at 3D things?

I fell very good about working on it now.
Each and every part of it is built from scratch,
following stock SH3 model protocal.

With a few special thoughts thrown in to make it a
stand out work.

All the Ships I've done in the past were kit bashed.
That limited what could be done.

This Ship removes the limits.
And I have free reign over some special ideas.
:03:

[Task Force]

Very nice hull/bridge Privateer. Im guessing this is for GWX4.:up:

[Madox58]

The first release will be for GWX 3.0
It will also work for earlier versions of GWX.
The better version will be for GWX 4 I expect.
I promised this unit a ways back.
So I feel I owe it.
And am most happy to finally get it going.

Building ships from scratch for SH3 or SH4 is a MAJOR job.
There is a massive amount of things that you need to watch
as you build each part.
When kit bashing,
everything is already done.
You just adjust things.

So this Ship is the most difficult for me to date.

[Task Force]

Cant wait to see her in action Privateer.:yeah:

[Madox58]

I'll have a few new renderings of the Bridge area
tomorrow evening.

Once this area is completed,
work should go much faster.

I have tested the work to date in Game
and it looks very good.

I've also noted some settings for 3D Max
and model work that I'll post about.

This is in relation to flipped faces problems
when working on multiple objects in one obj file.

We see it even with kit bashed ships at times.
So this should help other Builders.
:up:

[JScones]

The Bridge area is coming along nicely but due to
lack of really good pictures I'll have to guess at a few areas.
I doubt many will notice a few mistakes here or there.
Considering (tmk) that no-one has pointed out that the current Bathurst looks eerily like a Flower, I doubt many will notice a few differences between your model and a real Bathurst.

And if they did, just say that yours is one of the multitude of variations within the class.

[Madox58]

:DL
Yes, there is that fact.
But I really do want to make it as close to
reality as I can.

After all.
I've spent nearly 2 years looking at everything
I can find on the Bathurst.

I know I can't do a High Poly model for the Game.
But I want to complete this in a way
that You, TarJak, and all the other
Upside Downers (Joke) will agree with.

[Madox58]

Never Mind. All is sorted now.

The Bathurst can now be configured in many ways that should cover the majority of loadouts.

New DC Drop racks, new 'Correct' DC Throwers, new small arms mounts, etc.