[REL] Horizon Extension for GWX3 16km

[onelifecrisis]

This mod turned out to be a massive FPS killer even on powerful machines, so I removed it.

[Hitman]

Thanks, will try it :up:

One thing worth taking a look at, would be the 20.000 metres environment from SH4. The model is already there, I just don't know how to export it from SH4 and import it into SH3 :damn:, but if you get modelling software I would certainly like to see the SH3 world expand to 32.000 metres (4x the original). In tests I have conducted so far, it seems to me that reducing the amount of detail could suffice to make it well playable on average systems.

[onelifecrisis]

Depends... what are you calling an "average" system?

I doubt I could run even a training mission at 32km at 1fps, and as a general rule I don't make mods that I can't use (unless it takes 20 seconds like this one did).

In the past I've had real difficulties with the SH3 sky dome model. It's just plain twitchy AFAIC, and since it would need to be modified to extend the atmosphere past 16km... well you can see how making such a mod would quickly turn into a big development and testing headache for me. Prolly a job for someone else I'm afraid. :-?

[Hitman]

Hmmm I just tested your mod and my system also hardly managed it :hmmm:

I will take a look later at it from inside, and I will send you tomorrow an alternative file with an idea or two I have.

Must go now :salute:

[onelifecrisis]

Crap. In my haste I uploaded the wrong one. That version is broken, don't use it. I've uploaded the right one now. Sorry. :oops:

See post #1 for a new link.

@Hitman
Jst so you know, this version doesn't improve the FPS any.

[mr chris]

Hmm will give that a go OLC.
Am going to have to reinstall everything when i get install Windows 7 RC which iam downloading now.

[Hitman]

OK, I just sent you a revised file to the btinternet server mail adress I had from you,

tell me what you think :up:

[Seeadler]

One thing worth taking a look at, would be the 20.000 metres environment from SH4. The model is already there, I just don't know how to export it from SH4 and import it into SH3 :damn:, but if you get modelling software I would certainly like to see the SH3 world expand to 32.000 metres (4x the original).
As a result of tests in the past, it does not matter how big the skydome is modeled, in SH3 there is a hardcoded limit of 20km, from there the units will be rendered first in the scene by the engine. Even if you have a world of 32km you will notice the units only when the game engine calculates that the units now cross the 20km border.

[Hitman]

Ahh cheers Frank! :up: Do you have an idea if it would be very complicated to import the SH4 sky into SH3, so we could have at least that 20km environment? :hmmm:

[Seeadler]

Do you have an idea if it would be very complicated to import the SH4 sky into SH3, so we could have at least that 20km environment? :hmmm:
It's not complicated
- extract the obj mesh for skydome and clouddome from the SH4 scene.dat and env\*.dat's with S3d
- import the meshes into the same dat's of SH3

Alternatively, the skydome and clouddome of SH3 can also be used and increased in a 3D program, because there is no difference between the 3D mesh of SH3 and SH4, except the size:03:

In both cases:
- tweak all other dat files which might have to do with the new distance to the horizon e.g. sensors, lookout etc. (I don't know which files)

[Hitman]

Excellent!! Will give it a try ASAP :yeah:

[Hitman]

Hummm something weird is happening here :yawn:

I have exported the 3D model for sky and clouds from the SH4 files and imported it into the SH3 ones, both into the standard and into the 16k environment mod. No crashes, no problems....but the game reverts to the 9500 metres visibility limit :o

I have the feeling that SH4 might be re-scaling the whole model via harcoded parameters in the exe file, starting form the 8k model. Otherwise I can't explain how it is positively noticed that the model has changed when the SH4 stuff is imported, but instead of incresing visibility, the game actually lowers it!! :nope:

Frank, if you have some minutes, could you take a look at the model in the SH4 files and confirm if it is 20k or 8k? Oh, and another question: Is there any free software that would allow me to resize the sky dome from the 16 or 8k mods to 20k?

Thanks

[Alex]

In the meantime give this a try and let me know what you think.

I've just seen the price you got to pay to run the game with this mod enabled :huh:, the biggest impact on the number of FPS that I've ever noticed so far.
Like you said, it looks good. Though just being on the bridge with no visual contact makes the computer ask for pity and mercy... :o

I simply didn't expect such a big impact on the FPS. http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7558/violence25.gif

[onelifecrisis]

I've just seen the price you got to pay to run the game with this mod enabled :huh:, the biggest impact on the number of FPS that I've ever noticed so far.
Like you said, it looks good. Though just being on the bridge with no visual contact makes the computer ask for pity and mercy... :o

I simply didn't expect such a big impact on the FPS. http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7558/violence25.gif

Actually I said I don't think it looks good. ;) For my taste, I prefer a more "hazy" horizon. :up:

And yes, the FPS hit is huge, which is why I never implemented this change before. I wondered if maybe a modern machine could manage it, but it sounds like the answer is no. :hmmm:

Hitman has made a version with zero impact on the framerate, maybe he'll post a link to it...

[Alex]

Actually I said I don't think it looks good. ;)

At least, this mod is worth being there... It will certainly fit the tastes of some people. :yeah:

For my taste, I prefer a more "hazy" horizon. :up:

I do too. :yep:

But let's see what Mr Hitman can come up with... :shucks: :ping:

[Seeadler]

Frank, if you have some minutes, could you take a look at the model in the SH4 files and confirm if it is 20k or 8k? Oh, and another question: Is there any free software that would allow me to resize the sky dome from the 16 or 8k mods to 20k?
Ah yes, the SH4 models are at 8km and be resized by the game engine and the SH3 models must be at the desired size ...long time ago I touched these files:DL

I packed all my dome models I've created in the past in a zip file, a 20km model pack is included.
http://files.filefront.com/Sh3+Dome+Modelszip/;13733683;/fileinfo.html

[mr chris]

Well with the normal GWX 16km atmosphere i was getting around 190fps on the bridge and 214fps when using the binos and UZO.

When the Horizon Extension is install my FPS drop massively.
On the Bridge i get about 20fps and when using the binos and UZO about 25fps.

All this testing was done in the Naval Academy's Navigation mission.
God knows what it would be like in and around a large convoy

[Hitman]

I packed all my dome models I've created in the past in a zip file, a 20km model pack is included.


Wooooot :yeah:

GREAT!!! I always wanted to extend it as far as possible, now I have the chance :yeah:

[Hitman]

Error message: <The file " has no materials> :damn:

[Seeadler]

Error message: <The file " has no materials> :damn:
the mat info is now included
http://files.filefront.com/Sh3+Dome+Models+Matzip/;13735561;/fileinfo.html

[Hitman]

I've been able to import them, but there's something I must be doing wrong, may be in the options I check with Silent 3ditor, because using the stock 8km environment as basis, I get black sky, and using the 16k environment as basis, I don't have visibility up to 20k, and the sky has large awful black triangles :damn:

Oh well....SH5 is around the corner, isn't it? :shifty:

[onelifecrisis]

For the 16km black triangles, open scene.dat and change EnvData>Camara>Y from 2100 to 2625 (note that this will also boost the range of all visual sensors by 25%, bringing them up to about 20km). Depending on your graphics card, you may need to increase the Y value even further to get rid of the black triangles problem.

As for your visual (graphical) visibilty problem... did you make a 20k fog model? If your fog model is still 16k then you'll only be able to see 16k.

[Hitman]

A 20k fog model? Nope...where is that model and how do I create it? :stare:

[onelifecrisis]

A 20k fog model? Nope...where is that model and how do I create it? :stare:

:huh: Why the angry face?

I thought you knew about it already... it's the model in scene.dat called "fog". You'll need to export it, use a modelling tool to increase it's size, then re-import it. You'll also have to increase the number of "Patches" in "EnvData>Scale" by about 25% (this doesn't affect sensors, but it does affect FPS).

To test whether that is the only problem, try this: in scene.dat, in the the "Node - fog" page, in the "node positioning" section, enter a value of -1000 in the "Translation: Y" box. That will move the fog model out of the way, which should allow you to see ships 20km away. It will also mess up your horizon! I'm only suggesting it as a test to confirm the problem.

[Hitman]

:huh: Why the angry face?

Not for you! I thank you a lot for helping :up:

I just wanted to express that I'm constantly finding new problems ... solve one, there comes the next...you know that kind of feeling.

I thought you knew about it already... it's the model in scene.dat called "fog". You'll need to export it, use a modelling tool to increase it's size, then re-import it.


No, I didn't...I have never before tweaked with new models. I guess I would need 3DStudio Max or similar for that? I don't have any of that software, so unless there is a freeware one around I won't be able to do that. :-?

[onelifecrisis]

...unless there is a freeware one around...

Same problem here. To make OLCE2 I installed a simple, easy-to-use modelling tool that was fully functional for a 30 day trial period. But I can't remember now what it was called. :damn:

[Hitman]

OK, it worked well and the black triangles are gone :up:

However, the ships dissapear at 17000 metres :down:

and I can't find the "node positioning" section in the "Node - fog" page you mentioned :doh:

[Madox58]

I guess I would need 3DStudio Max or similar for that? I don't have any of that software, so unless there is a freeware one around I won't be able to do that. :-?

Hitman,

I use Misfit once in awhile.
It's free and handles obj files.
It's not as system intensive as 3D Max which is a plus.
http://www.misfitcode.com/misfitmodel3d/

[Hitman]

Cheers Privateer, nice advice :up:

[onelifecrisis]

...
open scene.dat and change EnvData>Camara>Y from 2100 to 2625 ...EnvData --> Camera --> Z max = ...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3326/3520277514_45b36f066f_o.jpg

[onelifecrisis]

OK, it worked well and the black triangles are gone :up:

However, the ships dissapear at 17000 metres :down:

and I can't find the "node positioning" section in the "Node - fog" page you mentioned :doh:

Here, like this:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3345/3519470529_cfbe88b583_o.jpg

[Seeadler]

I just wanted to express that I'm constantly finding new problems ... solve one, there comes the next...you know that kind of feeling.
that is also called SH modding :D

I guess I would need 3DStudio Max or similar for that? I don't have any of that software, so unless there is a freeware one around I won't be able to do that. :-?3D Freeware with OBJ support:
http://www.wings3d.com/ (used by SH modders)
http://www.blender.org/
http://www.k-3d.org
http://meshlab.sourceforge.net/ (nice to quick view obj models)

or the fully functional 30 day versions of
3D Max 2010
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/mform?id=10083915&siteID=123112
Maya 2009
http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/mform?siteID=123112&id=12035483

[Hitman]

Cheers guys :yeah:

I resized the fog model with Misfit, as suggested by Privateer, and I now have a working 20k environment ... woooooot :yeah:

[mr chris]

Cheers guys :yeah:

I resized the fog model with Misfit, as suggested by Privateer, and I now have a working 20k environment ... woooooot :yeah:

:DL That is great news Hitman.
Well done indeed.
Are the any draw back with the 20km atmosphere?
Such as low FPS?

[Hitman]

Are the any draw back with the 20km atmosphere?
Such as low FPS?

Nope, no changes in FPS in my system....and I have even done a version with WAC environment in 20km mode, boy does it look impressive :D

It's a matter of adjusting the LOD if it stutters.

My system is good, but not the ultimate:

-P4 dual core 2.6 Ghz
-2GB corsair DDR3 RAM
-Nvidia GeForce 8800 GT 640MB card

[onelifecrisis]

Great news Hitman. :yeah:

Sorry, Onelifecrisis ...
Do not show this picture ...
It's skwas interpretation ... :D
In SH: Z min, Z max and AoV (in rad.) ...
WinDirection and Fog not correct too ...

Hitman uses S3D.
The variable is called "Y" in S3D.
I said "change Y" and Hitman understood.
Everyone is happy...
...except Anvart. :nope:

[Anvart]

:damn:
Дуб ... он и в Африке дуб ...

[onelifecrisis]

:damn:
Дуб ... он и в Африке дуб ...

Oh yeah? Well you know what I say to that?

╔╞╔╔╞╛╥╔╞╥╫

So there! :O:

[mr chris]

Nope, no changes in FPS in my system....and I have even done a version with WAC environment in 20km mode, boy does it look impressive :D

It's a matter of adjusting the LOD if it stutters.

My system is good, but not the ultimate:

-P4 dual core 2.6 Ghz
-2GB corsair DDR3 RAM
-Nvidia GeForce 8800 GT 640MB card

That is very good to hear.
Would it be compatible with GWX Gold?
If so would it keep the environment of GWX 16km Atmosphere and just add the extra vision?

[coronas]

Excellent news, Hitman!
Any screenshot, please?

[Hitman]

That is very good to hear.
Would it be compatible with GWX Gold?
If so would it keep the environment of GWX 16km Atmosphere and just add the extra vision?

It is compatible with any environmental mod because it just enlarges the size of the visible world. Whatever mod you take, these generic models imported just enlarge it.

So, in any scene and sky.dat files you import them, they will work.

That said, as OLC said there might be side-effects to the AI sensors I have not yet tested, and I suppose a re-calibration of them would be needed.

Seeadler already placed the sky and clouds models for download, if someone is interested I can add the resized fog model.

Cheers :up:

[onelifecrisis]

That said, as OLC said there might be side-effects to the AI sensors I have not yet tested, and I suppose a re-calibration of them would be needed.

No re-calibration would be needed, provided that Camera Y (or "Z-max" :roll:) is increased appropriately. 16km -> 20km is an increase of 25%, so if your 16km env has a value of 2100 in that field, and you increase that value by 25%, then all visual sensors will be "recalibrated" to 20km. That's all you need to do.

[Hitman]

I supposed that from one of your earlier replies, but what about the night time sensor? Will we get vampire vision again because night sensor will also increase proportionally? :hmmm:

[mr chris]

It is compatible with any environmental mod because it just enlarges the size of the visible world. Whatever mod you take, these generic models imported just enlarge it.

So, in any scene and sky.dat files you import them, they will work.

That said, as OLC said there might be side-effects to the AI sensors I have not yet tested, and I suppose a re-calibration of them would be needed.

Seeadler already placed the sky and clouds models for download, if someone is interested I can add the resized fog model.

Cheers :up:

Very interesting :up:

Im very interested in having a 20km environment. As long as it does not effect the sensors. Also i would not want the vampire night vision to return.

But if having a 20km environment does not effect any of those. Then im well and truly sold on the idea. and im sure many more would be.

[coronas]

if someone is interested I can add the resized fog model.

Very interested! :yeah:

[onelifecrisis]

I supposed that from one of your earlier replies, but what about the night time sensor? Will we get vampire vision again because night sensor will also increase proportionally? :hmmm:

Yes, night vision would increase proportionally as well (i.e. by 25%). But the night vision in OLCE2 (and, therefore, in GWX3 16km) is so limited that I hardly think an increase of 25% would constitute "vampire night vision" the likes of which we used to have. Of course if people make these changes to other environments then, yes, it could make a bad problem worse. I guess the only solution is for everyone in the world to use OLCE2! :rotfl:

[Hitman]

I'll ask Kaptain Lehman permission to make a 20k environment mod based in the current GWX file, and OLC can do one based in his environment if he wants :up:

Meanwhile, here is a pack with all models needed and instructions to insert them into any environment mod you like:

http://files.filefront.com/20k+Environment+modelsrar/;13742395;/fileinfo.html

Good hunting :salute:

[coronas]

Downloaded! Thanks, Sir! :salute:

[mr chris]

I'll ask Kaptain Lehman permission to make a 20k environment mod based in the current GWX file,

I look forward to seeing this in game.
Though Just to let you know that the Kapt is very busy at the moment.

[makman94]

Yes, night vision would increase proportionally as well (i.e. by 25%). But the night vision in OLCE2 (and, therefore, in GWX3 16km) is so limited that I hardly think an increase of 25% would constitute "vampire night vision" the likes of which we used to have. Of course if people make these changes to other environments then, yes, it could make a bad problem worse. I guess the only solution is for everyone in the world to use OLCE2! :rotfl:

and what about if we lowered the brightness of ambientlightcolor after these modifications?
do you think that this will not do the trick ?

thank you

[Hitman]

May be, but I'm not a sensors guru :hmmm:

Anyway, I have found a problem with the moon, it is rendered with a square graphic around :damn: will need to check that....tomorrow!

Good nite all :salute:

[onelifecrisis]

and what about if we lowered the brightness of ambientlightcolor after these modifications?
do you think that this will not do the trick ?

thank you

Yes, that would work. It would take some balancing of course, and it would worsen the "glow in the dark crew" problem (or "dark/light hands" problem, depending on which mods you use) and there's no way I know of to get around that. But for the visual sensors yes it would work.

[Madox58]

Nice work Hitman.
:up:

So what do you think of MisFit?
:hmmm:

[bybyx]

What was the situation in real life with the line of sight. In the best of conditions from what range could you spot ships from a submarine?

[coronas]

I have found a problem with the moon, it is rendered with a square graphic around

Same here.
I did changues over Reecek SH4 16Km environment to SH3.
Can be anything about moon reflections?

[Seeadler]

Anyway, I have found a problem with the moon, it is rendered with a square graphic around
not here:yeah:
perhaps because I have denied to import the normals for the new models:hmmm:

[Hitman]

So what do you think of MisFit?

A very interesting tool, Jeff :up: Seems quite easy to learn, and coincidentally I was about choosing a freeware 3D modeller with projection into the future to learn a bit about it. Misfit could well be it :yep: but also Wings3D as Seeadler pinted out seems quite intuitive....in any case I found the rescaling quicker in Misfit, so a difficult choice. I will try to study them a bit more when I have time, and then stick with one. Since I don't pretend to do whole models, but just retouches here and there when I need it, probably any of them will serve its purpose.

What was the situation in real life with the line of sight. In the best of conditions from what range could you spot ships from a submarine?

That depends on the heigth of it, look at this article it's very interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizon

In the U-Boats the usual procedure was to follow and overtake the targets at the limit of visibility, allowing their masts only to raise over the horizon. From that position, the target can't see the U-Boat, but the U-Boat can see it. So I wanted to be able to recreate that in SH3, hence my interest in this 20k environment.

not here:yeah:
perhaps because I have denied to import the normals for the new models:hmmm:

Ahhh that could be the key...Seeadler to the rescue again :up:

[Seeadler]

Ahhh that could be the key...
Or the SkyObjRadius in scene.dat /EnvSim.
I imported the models in my own modified scene.dat and the SkyObjRadius for moon is here =1890
These values must be tweaked also when the domes are resized, because the sky objects must be rendered in the gap between the domes, otherwise the cloud texture could be rendered behind the moon:)
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/91/3063991/1280_3236366532366266.jpg

[Hitman]

Or the SkyObjRadius in scene.dat /EnvSim

Hmmm...I had thought that radius meant the size of the object. :03: So it is indeed the radius of rotation from the centre of the dome, i.e. from 0/0/0 coordinates of it?

Will try the domes without normals in a moment, if the problem persists I will try to modify the moon radius (Sun gave no problems at all) :hmmm:

[Hitman]

Update:

Nope, the normals had nothing to do with it. The problem doesn't always appear, the moon only looks wrong in some missions, specifically I have noticed it when the moon is bigger (closer to earth, so makes sense as it probably is trespassing the clouds dome).

Will try with different moon radius distances :hmmm:

[onelifecrisis]

Will try with different moon radius distances :hmmm:

That's the ticket.

Take note, though: as you make the environment bigger, you increase the chance of z-buffer problems. It may be that at 20km you won't find a Moon Radius setting that fixes the moon in all circumstances. It depends, partly, on your hardware, but if you do get this problem then you'll need to widen the gap between the cloud dome and the sky dome (by shrinking the cloud dome a little bit) in order to "make more room" for the moon (I had to do this in OLCE2). If you do that then, depending on how much you shrink the clouds, you may also have to shrink the fog model a bit (because it has to have a smaller radius than the cloud dome).

[Hitman]

I see. Would it work if I use the 30 km sky dome with the 20 km sky dome and fog model? Must test that... :hmmm:

[onelifecrisis]

I'm only saying that you may need to do those things. First just try changing the Moon Radius as Seeadler suggested. That may be all that is required!

[Hitman]

Well, changing the moonradius to 2100 cured the problem BUT testing in other conditions apparently it made the moon invisible (Returning to radius of 1890 showed the moon again), probably as it was placed beyond the sky dome.

as you make the environment bigger, you increase the chance of z-buffer problems. It may be that at 20km you won't find a Moon Radius setting that fixes the moon in all circumstances. It depends, partly, on your hardware, but if you do get this problem then you'll need to widen the gap between the cloud dome and the sky dome (by shrinking the cloud dome a little bit) in order to "make more room" for the moon (I had to do this in OLCE2). If you do that then, depending on how much you shrink the clouds, you may also have to shrink the fog model a bit (because it has to have a smaller radius than the cloud dome).

Spot on, that seems to be exactly the problem :up:Now I will need to shrink the clouds and fog model, but if I understand it correctly, the fog model is what determines in the end the total visibility distance, isn't it? :hmmm: So if I want 20k visibility, shouldn't I do the opposite, i.e. make the fog be 20k and from there on the clouds slightly bigger and the sky dome much bigger to give the moon enough space? :doh:


P.S. The 30km sky dome didn't work well with the 20k clouds dome.

[onelifecrisis]

Well, changing the moonradius to 2100 cured the problem BUT testing in other conditions apparently it made the moon invisible (Returning to radius of 1890 showed the moon again), probably as it was placed beyond the sky dome.

It can be very finicky. Did you try 2000? 2050? 1950? They could work.

Now I will need to shrink the clouds and fog model, but if I understand it correctly, the fog model is what determines in the end the total visibility distance, isn't it? :hmmm:

Whichever of the three models is smallest (fog/cloud/sky) determines the point at which ships will disappear. You should have Sky>Cloud>Fog (or you will get problems) so yes, the Fog sets the visibility limit.

So if I want 20k visibility, shouldn't I do the opposite, i.e. make the fog be 20k and from there on the clouds slightly bigger and the sky dome much bigger to give the moon enough space? :doh:

Maybe Seeadler can answer that better than I but having re-read his explanation of the hardcoded 20k limit (which was news to me) it sounds to me like it should work.

[Graf Paper]

These settings seem to work well for my 20km setup in GWX 3.0 :

Node-Sky:
EnvSim
SkyObjRadius
SunRadius = 2125
MoodRadius = 2120
StarsRadius= 2130


I also imported the Sun and Moon from SH4.

Tested it in various kinds of weather conditions and time of day. Sun, moon, and stars all seem to display properly. Fog also appears to work well, except the "Heavy Fog" setting seems to only reduce visibility to ~500 meters. Not exactly the pea soup I was expecting but this might be normal for GWX 3.0 and not a side-effect of the 20km environment.

Still have more testing to do. Hitman, what were the exact circumstances where the Moon would become invisible?

[onelifecrisis]

OMFG! Who died and made you, of all people, a moderator? :nope:

[coronas]

Square moon is gone with Graf Paper settings.
Tested in some night, dawn, sunrise and day missions with changuing weather. No vampire nightvision.

[Hitman]

It can be very finicky. Did you try 2000? 2050? 1950? They could work.


Yes I tried in increments of 50 :yep:

These settings seem to work well for my 20km setup in GWX 3.0

Hummm over 2100 caused the square moon problem in my install. Note that I had that problem in the Arctic Ocean, i.e. I have tested it in the extremes of the earth also :hmmm: Also note that the problem in my system ONLY appears when there are clouds, and it is very noticeable with heavy clouds.

Try this test mission:

[Mission]
Title=Test mission
MissionType=0
MissionDataType=0
Year=1942
Month=1
Day=12
Hour=9
Minute=30
Fog=0
FogRand=0
Clouds=1
CloudsRand=0
Precip=0
PrecipRand=0
WindHeading=12
WindSpeed=0.000000
WindRand=0
WeatherRndInterval=5
SeaType=150
Briefing=Test mission
[Unit 1]
Name=Type VIIC#1
Class=SSTypeVIIC
Type=200
Origin=German
Side=2
Commander=1
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19420101
DeleteOnLastWaypoint=false
DockedShip=false
GameEntryDate=19420112
GameEntryTime=930
GameExitDate=19451231
GameExitTime=0
EvolveFromEntryDate=false
Long=2491860.000000
Lat=8763470.000000
Height=0.000000
Heading=264.223206
Speed=5.000000
CrewRating=3
DelayMin=0
ReportPosMin=-1
ReportPosProbability=100
RandStartRadius=0.000000
NextWP=0


Oh, and I almost forgot: Kaptain Lehman has granted permission to produce an unofficial 20k mod for GWX, so when we refine the work enough, we can make it publically available for those who hate fiddling around with files and editing the game :up:

[Seeadler]

So if I want 20k visibility, shouldn't I do the opposite, i.e. make the fog be 20k and from there on the clouds slightly bigger and the sky dome much bigger to give the moon enough space?

To explain the use of the fog model, I used the SH models in my own engine as test objects.

http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/91/3063991/1280_6432336338636237.jpg
In this way the three models are placed in the SH world.
Yellow = SkyColor dome model
Red = Clouds dome model
Green = Fog model
You see there is a gap between sky and cloud dome and verry small gab between cloud dome an fog model.

http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/91/3063991/1280_3334366134313366.jpg
The players ship is centered in the middle of the scene
The texture used on the fog model has a soft transition from invisible to a slightly transparent white color and is rendered from the middle (invisible) to the edge(transparent) near at the beginning of cloud dome.

http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/91/3063991/1280_3337323734373164.jpg
From the player perspective in the middle of the scene, the fog model will make the sharp horizon, where the water surface and cloud dome meets, a bit softer and ships appears like in mist.

If you make the fog model 20k, the cloud dome should be bigger and also the sky dome (leave space for the two gaps). A good practice is to import all three models in a 3D modeller and resize them all in one pass. You must test if a 20k fog model let the ships on the horizon appear in mist or not, perhabs a 18k fog model might do it also.

[Hitman]

Thanks for the illustrated explanation again :up:

good practice is to import all three models in a 3D modeller and resize them all in one pass.

Yeah, I tried that but apparently it is not possible in Misfit. Anyway, I can resize them individually to the desired size, so it's just a matter of noting which one I picked and keeping the proportions.

[Seeadler]

Yeah, I tried that but apparently it is not possible in Misfit.
get the 1.3.8 developer version of Misfit, it has a join function in the model menu
- load via menu->model->join each model separate into the scene view
- select all models
- resize all
- select each model separate and export it

[Hitman]

Excellent! :yeah:

I think I'm going to give Misfit a bit of deeper study & practice...it's definately not a superb tool, but it is easy and intuitive, and for my needs it more than meets the requirements :yep:

[Graf Paper]

Hitman, I loaded your test mission and everything still seems to work fine. I used time compression, stopping at two hour intervals to check the view.

Here's some screen shots, settings as previously posted with the SH4 moon imported, screen resolution 1024x768:

http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/g/GrafPaper/162618/rgkjqtcpjm.jpg

http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/g/GrafPaper/162618/hxdxsgzwbf.jpg

http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/g/GrafPaper/162618/aoypxeezxq.jpg

http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/g/GrafPaper/162618/rqnfzxyrop.jpg

http://static3.filefront.com/images/personal/g/GrafPaper/162618/cyhkaudfkp.jpg

Stormy is testing a 20km mod I put together for LSH3 4.0 and initial results are similar to my own tests with GWX 3.0.

I hope this is the answer and you will have equally good results with this, Hitman. :up:

[Hitman]

Cheers Graff,

will pick your values and re-test :up:

Are you using the fog model I rescaled? I will revise it because it was a quick job and I had not yet understood well how Misfit worked, I can do now a more precise job :ping:

[Graf Paper]

I'm using the Clouds/Fog/Sky models that you bundled together and posted a link to in post #47 of this thread.

I also used the sun and moon models from SH4. My reasoning being that they would work best because the sky they were made for is the one we're using.

When exporting the SH4 sun and moon models, I used the default settings in S3D.

When importing Seadler's models and the SH4 models, I skipped inclusion of vertex normals, since the original SH3 models do not use them.

Env Camera Y-axis setting is as onelifecrisis suggested.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you in the hope you will produce similar results. By the way, thank you for a very simple, clear, and concise readme text. It made creating the mod almost childishly easy. :yeah:

Stormy reported back that there may be some issues with the High-Res mod that allows you to use greater screen resolutions with SH3. He wasn't more specific but I'm supposed to meet with him in the ModDev Channel on the ComSubsPac TeamSpeak server later today and discuss things in more detail.

[Hitman]

My reasoning being that they would work best because the sky they were made for is the one we're using.


Unfortunately it isn't :damn:

SH4 uses the 8 km environment but re-scales it via hardcoded parameters in the exe up to 20km :hmmm:

Anyway, I have reworked the whole thing and will post here later about it, must go now.

Cheers

[Hitman]

Well I bit the bullet and did myself the resizing of everything, all three 3D models. Once you get the hang of it, it's not that difficult. Rescaling the three models together, as suggested by Seeadler, the result was:

Fog platform at 20.000 metres, the clouds dome at 21.100, and the Sky dome at 23.200.

Using this as reference, I placed all celestial objects at exacty midway between the Sky and the clouds dome, and the result was perfect. :yeah:

The ony drawback I have found so far is that the sharp horizon used by OLC will no longer work. Setting a radius of 9999999 for the earth will cause the sea to be rendered black. Probably a matter of having reached the limit of SH3 rendering distance (20.000 metres), but anyway not a big deal for me since I don't use it, but have instead kept the curved earth with masts over the horizon effect (Even if that means a bit of ships floating in the horizon fog effect), which I consider prioritary for historically correct hunting.

I'll polish some details here and there and will make the new models public. The good thing of this is that we have exploited the whole potential of Sh3 by extending the world as much as the 3D engine allows us.

[makman94]

The good thing of this is that we have exploited the whole potential of Sh3 by extending the world as much as the 3D engine allows us.

very nice all your efforts by all of you here but i have one question.
how do you know that the 3d engine can handle only till 20 km radious ?
is this for sure ?

[Hitman]

Seeadler said so, I have not tried it but I take it he is right :smug:

[Seeadler]

how do you know that the 3d engine can handle only till 20 km radious ?
is this for sure ?
You can make a 40km skydome and the 3D engine can handle it but if you place a unit in a mission in a distance of 30km from your position, you can't see it, it popped out if you cross the 20km distance line.

Perhaps there are some values in *.dat files in combination with or without harcodes values who calculated this.

[makman94]

You can make a 40km skydome and the 3D engine can handle it but if you place a unit in a mission in a distance of 30km from your position, you can't see it, it popped out if you cross the 20km distance line.

Perhaps there are some values in *.dat files in combination with or without harcodes values who calculated this.

ok Seeadler, its tested then . i was only thinking to make an experiment to see what will happen as the most correct radious is 35 km BUT as it is tested and no working.....ok ,we will live with 20 km !

thank you

[Graf Paper]

After a few days of testing by several people over at CSP, no major bugs have been reported with my build in GWX 3.0.

Stormy's bug he reported had to do with the sun appearing like a "supernova", as he put it. Upon further discussion, I believe it may have more to do with his use of Racerboy's SH4 Effects for SH3 mod in combination with the high resolution mod with Living SH3. Still looking into it.

Good news is that this 20km mod works beautifully with GWX multiplayer as well! :yeah:

I want to thank you, Hitman, Seadler, and onelifecrisis for sharing your knowledge and providing the bricks that I could then build something using the mortar of my thought. Your generosity is one of the reasons why you're among the best! :DL

And thanks to swkas for providing the needed tool. You have made modding SH3 and SH4 more accessible to the masses, good sir. :salute:

[Hitman]

I am having BIG problems with the heavy fog :damn:

Have you tested under those conditions? :hmmm:

[Graf Paper]

By "big problems" what do you mean?

I ran a test mission:
Location: Wilhelmshaven Jan. 1 1944 12:10 PM
Weather: Heavy Fog, Medium Clouds, Wind 2km/sec SSW, No rain.
Variability: Heavy changes set for fog and clouds only.
Weather Interval: 2 hours

Everything seemed to work just fine. The fog completely obscured anything more than 500 meters away but seemed much too light within that distance. Not exactly the "pea soup" I was expecting but I have to run the same mission without the 20km enviroment to make sure it's not that mod's fault.

This is being tested on a top-of-the-line computer system. Well it was the best money could buy five years ago, anyways! :roll:

Test bed is GWX 3.0 with only these mods enabled:
Hitman U-505 Compass Graphics v1.0 :03:
CSP Online Mod v1.0
20km Weather Test

I used my Online Mod v1.0 to eliminate traffic from the campaign layers for the sake of faster loading times while testing. The 20km Weather Test is several missions where time of day and weather were set to varying values.

I could PM a link to you for the 20km mod and test missions if that would help, Hitman. I'd rather not give out the link publicly as I know this 20km mod has been your baby. Just give me a day to get everything zipped up for you. I'll be busy today with the SH Community Meeting and other things.

[dcb]

A sincere thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread. Reading it I finally understood what I should do to resize the SH3 world - which I hadn't known until now and I really wanted to understand how to do it.
In particular, THANK YOU HITMAN for your 3D models! Using them I was able to enlarge the WAC original 8 kms environment to over 16 kms.
You guys are great:up:

[Hitman]

Dohhh :doh: an error in the test mission was driving me mad :damn:, but now I found it and everything is OK...

Thanks for the offer Graf, fortunately I do not longer need it now I found the error :up:

I'd rather not give out the link publicly as I know this 20km mod has been your baby.

Thanks for thinking about me, but don't worry, I don't pretend to be remembered as the creator of the 20k mod :haha:, I'm just following the instructions of the true masters here, Seeadler and OLC. Hopefully we will be able to give the community a good 20k env mod for this next weekend :yeah:

In particular, THANK YOU HITMAN for your 3D models! Using them I was able to enlarge the WAC original 8 kms environment to over 16 kms.


Cheers dcb, WAC environment looks splendid in 8k, but in 20k trim it's plain AWESOME. I'll ask HanSolo for permissions to make such a version also publically available somewhen in the future, it would be a shame that people with powerful computers miss such a beauty :up: