(WIP) Ship's Acceleration Physics

[JREX53]

Ship’s Acceleration Physics

By JREX53


This mod is an attempt to make the ships in Silent Hunter 4 to react is a more realistic way. As we have all experienced, the rates of speed changes to be very unrealistic. Ships that go from a dead stop to 30 kts in less than 30 seconds or being able to turn on a dime will become a thing of the past. From my personal testing, in the beginning, I have observed ships not being able to maintain convoy positions and scattering at unrealistically slow speeds when using drag coefficients as the main choice to control ship acceleration.

This mod is a continuation of the work started by Swdw/Sam. Sam had informed me shortly after I started work on this mod that changes to drag should be minimized as it caused ships to act in weird ways. He also suggested that adjusting the engine power and engine rpm to get the timings to match realistic speed curves. He suggested using the engine power to get into the ballpark, then us the engine rpm to fine tune the desired results. He also suggested changing the propeller efficiency as needed. The main reason that he used the changing of engine power was because the power does NOT represent the true shaft power generated, as the other factors affecting acceleration, prop size, etc are not represented in the acceleration physics of the ships. He also discovered in his testing that the game engine slows the acceleration of the ship as it gets closer to rated speed.

So based on this information and a chart posted by Sailor Steve & Tater showing the speed curves for some of the British warships, I started over with this mod. There are several parameters that can be changed that will affect how ships behave. These parameters are: Mass, gravity center height, gravity center position, displacement, draught (draft), left/right drag coefficients, up/down drag coefficients, maximum speed, engine power, engine rpm, rudder drag coefficient, and propeller influence factor. In conforming to remain compatible with RFB, I have used their values for displacement, draught, (and in the case of the destroyers, minesweepers, and minelayers) the gravity center height. I have set the gravity center height for the other ships to 0.2, the Left/Right drag coefficient to 0.45, up/down drag coefficient to 0.3, rudder drag coefficient to 0.03, and propeller influence factor to 0.05.

This leaves parameters that can be adjusted to: maximum speed (only to match the config file), engine power, and engine rpm. The one remaining parameter that I have not tested is the engine’s max force.

I then started adjusting the engine power to get the civilian type ships (freighters, tankers, liners, etc.) to get their acceleration to more reasonable rates. I then timed the ships in a 90-degree turn to see how much speed they lost and how long it took for them to recover back to their maximum speed.

After completing the civilian type ships, I started on the destroyers, Japanese then Allied. I used the chart posted by Sailor Steve & Tater to get a ball park feel to the timings for the destroyers and the rest of the warships. (I was unable to find speed curves for the other nations involved in the game.)

The speed curves that resulted are based on the curves provided and by the age, displacement of the ship and the number of propellers driving the ship. I.e. twin-propped ships will take less time to reach a given speed then a single-propped ship, an older ship will take more time to reach a given speed and a heavier ship takes longer than a lighter ship.
My vision of the final product is that all the ships will act in as true a realistic manner as the real thing. This is probably not possible given the way the game engine uses the data that is inputted into its calculations. So given that we are limited into what parameters we can change and how they will cause the ship to react. We can only give a close approximation to how their movements are viewed in game.

Unfortunately, given this limitation we are forced to have unrealistic results in some phases of the ships movement through the water. It may result in the loss of too much speed in a course change, or the rate of acceleration may not be accurate at the start of an acceleration phase or even the end of an acceleration phase. My hope is minimize these affects in the game.

This version of Ship Acceleration Physics covers:
1.All Merchant, Tankers, and Passenger ships, both Axis and Allied ships.
2.All Destroyers and Destroyer Escorts on both sides. Note: Some additional modifications may be needed to the Destroyer Escorts in the future.
3.All Light Cruisers on both sides.
4.All Heavy Cruisers on both sides plus the Pocket Battleship Graf Spee.
5.All Carriers on both sides.

The next version will include the battleships, and any other ships/boats not done yet.

A special thank you goes to Skwas, for S3D, for without this magnificent program I would never have even thought of attempting this mod.

A special thank you also goes out to Swdw for his work on this process and his kind words in support of my endeavor.

A special thank you also to Vickers003 for allowing me to use his Sonar Target Fix mod in this mod.

Thanks also go to Philip Thomsen and Webster their work on this problem in both SH3 and SH4.

I also want to thank the beta testers for testing this mod and giving me feedback on problems
encountered and for their encouragement and support of my work.
These testers are:
399nkov
Wilcke
Rockin Robbins
Peto
Ablemaster
BillyBubble
Captgeo
fireship4

This version of the mod has been broken down into 2 separate downloads.

One download is for stock and RFB only, for those people who play strictly Stock and/or RFB without RSRDC – File name: SAP_v0.5_Stock-RFB-Only.rar.
Links:
SUBSIM: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1313

FileFront: http://www.filefront.com/14385855/SAP_v0.5_Stock-RFB-Only.rar

A second download for Stock and/or RFB with RSRDC – File name:
SAP_v0.5_Stock-RFB-RSRDC.rar
Links:
SUBSIM: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1314 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1138)


FileFront: http://www.filefront.com/14385861/SAP_v0.5_Stock-RFB-RSRDC.rar (http://www.filefront.com/13893946/SAP_v0.4_Stock-RFB-RSRDC.rar)

I hope you enjoy!

This mod is installed by JSGME.

[vanjast]

You do know that Webster's done this already...?
Maybe you should speak to him, you guys can exchange ideas :D

[JREX53]

Yes I know Webster has done it... I have accomplished mine in a different, and I feel better, way.

[Sailor Steve]

I'm glad to see more than one person working on this. The chart posted by tater was (I think) originally posted by me, quite some time ago. I've often wondered how accurate it is. It says it was created for 1929 war games. Was this an official Royal Navy war game, and were the curves created by naval experts of that time, or was it created by people like us for a homemade wargame? I know you don't know the answer to that question any more than I do. I was just putting it out there. Either way it doesn't really matter - there is no other information available. My problem with it is that I think destroyers should have a much better base acceleration. What slows them all down is that if a torpedo is spotted the captain or OOD first has to give the order, then the lee helmsman has to signal the engine room to make the change, then the lead engineer has to shout the order to the man at the throttles, and then he actually has to move them. With a fast warship I think the bigger problem is the time delay between the spotting of the incoming torpedo and the actual increase in power. This is also the problem with them reversing so quickly - a collision is likely to happen not because a small fast ship can't stop in time, but because the collision might well happen before the engines are even reversed!

My interest comes from a long history of tabletop miniatures naval wargaming. I've been working on my own rules for twenty years now, and have never quite gotten them finished, precisely because I keep obsessing over these questions. All I've ever had to go on were a thorough study of power/weight ratios and collected data on everything I could find. Not much, really. The only piece of real information I've ever seen was this placard from the engine room of a WW2 aircraft carrier, and I don't even remember which one it came from!

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/Engine9-2.jpg

[vickers03]

@JREX53
does your mod influence the way ships are heard
on the sonar?:hmmm:
that has always been a problem when playing with
the engine power and rpm.

[Webster]

well good luck with it.

FYI the drag coefficients in my mod have nothing to do with the engines power, they are for giving ships realistic inertia.

the biggest problem i found with the game is that it only speeds up or slows down in somewhat straight lines so you cant get a true acceleration "curve" but you can get a slight arch going.

[Soundman]

I'm glad to see more than one person working on this. The chart posted by tater was (I think) originally posted by me, quite some time ago. I've often wondered how accurate it is. It says it was created for 1929 war games. Was this an official Royal Navy war game, and were the curves created by naval experts of that time, or was it created by people like us for a homemade wargame? I know you don't know the answer to that question any more than I do. I was just putting it out there. Either way it doesn't really matter - there is no other information available. My problem with it is that I think destroyers should have a much better base acceleration. What slows them all down is that if a torpedo is spotted the captain or OOD first has to give the order, then the lee helmsman has to signal the engine room to make the change, then the lead engineer has to shout the order to the man at the throttles, and then he actually has to move them. With a fast warship I think the bigger problem is the time delay between the spotting of the incoming torpedo and the actual increase in power. This is also the problem with them reversing so quickly - a collision is likely to happen not because a small fast ship can't stop in time, but because the collision might well happen before the engines are even reversed!

My interest comes from a long history of tabletop miniatures naval wargaming. I've been working on my own rules for twenty years now, and have never quite gotten them finished, precisely because I keep obsessing over these questions. All I've ever had to go on were a thorough study of power/weight ratios and collected data on everything I could find. Not much, really. The only piece of real information I've ever seen was this placard from the engine room of a WW2 aircraft carrier, and I don't even remember which one it came from!

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/Engine9-2.jpg

Pretty interesting, yet intense material here Steve. 20 years shows a lot of dedication to detail, or procrastination, I'm not sure which ! :DL I admire your "stick to it ivness" (is that a word ? lol)

As for Jrex and Webster, hats off to both of you for even making an attempt at this painstakingly detailed can of worms you are delving into. We certainly have a very dedicated bunch of folks here. God bless all you modders! :salute:

[JREX53]

Sailor Steve,
Tanks for your comments. Sorry about the graph, if I had known that you were the one to post it I would have given you credit for it. As far as being able to answer your questions, the only answer I can give is "I don't know."

Good luck on your endeavor I hope you can get your project completed, I would be interested in seeing your results.

[JREX53]

@JREX53
does your mod influence the way ships are heard
on the sonar?:hmmm:
that has always been a problem when playing with
the engine power and rpm.

I am not sure how it influences the way ships are heard, if you want to test it out and let me know, I would be more than willing to add your fix, with the proper credit of course.

The only parameter that I have really change has been the engine power not the rpm.

[JREX53]

well good luck with it.

FYI the drag coefficients in my mod have nothing to do with the engines power, they are for giving ships realistic inertia.

the biggest problem i found with the game is that it only speeds up or slows down in somewhat straight lines so you cant get a true acceleration "curve" but you can get a slight arch going.

Thank you Webster.

Concerning the drag coefficients, I feel that they should be the same for all the ships. That way drag is acting on all the ships to the same degree.

I agree with your last point to a certain degree.

[JREX53]

Thank you Soundman for your encouragement. I hope people understand how much work goes into working on mods. Especially a mod like this, a lot of testing, and for me, writing down a lot of numbers.

[NEON DEON]

:hmmm:

Maybe after this mod is complete we could have Fleet boat drag racing.

Ok T3 does the quarter mile in 6.7

Seconds!

no

Minutes.

[JREX53]

Neon Deon,

According to my spreadsheet it takes the T3 to go from 1 kt to 18 kts in approximately 14 mins and 10 secs.

I will look into it though.

Thanks

[Webster]

Thank you Webster.

Concerning the drag coefficients, I feel that they should be the same for all the ships. That way drag is acting on all the ships to the same degree.

I agree with your last point to a certain degree.


:o i dont know whos mod you looked at or maybe you just think you know whats in my mod but you say things that sound like you havent really looked at it or if you did it must have been a prereleased version or something before i finished it because ALL my ships DO have the same drag coeficient.

you say your doing something different yet it sounds like an exact redo of my mod?????

i dont mind if thats what your doing because its all about making the game better but like you said, its a hell of a lot of work to do all those files so i want to be sure you understood what i had in my mod and what it did so you have a better place to start with your own settings.

did you actually download and test my mod since i posted it here at subsim?

[JREX53]

:o i dont know whos mod you looked at or maybe you just think you know whats in my mod but you say things that sound like you havent really looked at it or if you did it must have been a prereleased version or something before i finished it because ALL my ships DO have the same drag coeficient.

you say your doing something different yet it sounds like an exact redo of my mod?????

i dont mind if thats what your doing because its all about making the game better but like you said, its a hell of a lot of work to do all those files so i want to be sure you understood what i had in my mod and what it did so you have a better place to start with your own settings.

did you actually download and test my mod since i posted it here at subsim?

You were right, I am sorry. I went back and looked at your final release ad yes you did set the drag as a constant for all ships. I had made my statement on what you were saying when you first started working on your mod.
Which brings to mind a statement I had made to you about not using drag coefficients to control ship acceleration. It was in your Ship Stopping thread:

"Originally Posted by WEBSTER
Quote:
Originally Posted by gimpy117
this would really change the game. ships can't just accelerate to avoid torpedoes as well anymore and V&W destroyers (or the Japanese equivalent) can't come screaming in at 35 knots to ram you after traveling with a convoy at 7 knots.

well there is a hard coded issue where all ships get a free jump to 0-5 kts in 10-15 seconds and from 5 kts up you can actually control what they do, so they still can move out of the way on you but a bow shot should clip them in the rudders unless your too far away. but this is still better than stock where they go 0-5 kts in 2 or 3 seconds.
Webster,"

And I said then

"That isn't exactly accurate. I have been able to get merchant ships to only make 5 to 6 knots in the 1st minute, and to get them so that they don't reach their top speed for up to 20 minutes by just changing the engine HP and engine RPM.

As a suggestion, I would not use just the drag coefficients to cause the speed changes. You lead yourself open for weird things to happen in game. "

Which would mean, to me, that I gave you the idea to not use drag coefficients to control your ships, but yet you have not mentioned the fact, in your readme, that I had an influence on how you did your mod.

Frankly I don't really care if you did or not, but it would have been nice.

[JREX53]

:hmmm:

Maybe after this mod is complete we could have Fleet boat drag racing.

Ok T3 does the quarter mile in 6.7

Seconds!

no

Minutes.

Neon Deon,

I just reran my test mission for the T3 Tanker and I still come up with the acceleration from 1 kt to 18 kts, that I mentioned, at about 14 min and 10 sec.

[NEON DEON]

Here is a bit on the Missouri stopping.


"A full crash back is almost a non-event. That's where all four screws are reversed from full ahead to full astern. It takes a little over a mile for the ship to come to a stop before going in reverse, but there is no feeling of inertia throwing you forward - unless you turn the rudders inboard toward each other to close off the passage of water between the twin keels. That is called a "Barn Door Stop" and only the Wisconsin has ever tested it. A former XO of Whisky said that when they threw a piece of wood over the side from the bow at the onset of that maneuver, the ship came to a stop with that wood no further aft than turret III. That's stopping a 57,000 ton ship traveling at 33 knots in about 600 feet, which means that anything that is not tied down winds up on deck or against a forward bulkhead."

:eek::eek::eek:

As Huel Howser would say"

"ISN'T THAT AMAZING!"


http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-054.htm

[vanjast]

Not to mention the loose rudders - Pretty amazing stuff.

I notice that happens with Websters mod that I'm using (maybe it's hard-coded), counteracted by this.

As you know I set up the TDC with false info. I fire one torpedo on the intended target. When this torp is gone I turn slightly towards the ship, anticipating the 'barn door stop'.
Sure enough the ship slams on the brakes, and the first torp misses. But the ship has left itself in a vulnerable position and I slam the the other 3 torps straight at it... and it now cannot accelerate away fast enough... Boom, (dud), Boom.
:D

[NEON DEON]

Neon Deon,

I just reran my test mission for the T3 Tanker and I still come up with the acceleration from 1 kt to 18 kts, that I mentioned, at about 14 min and 10 sec.

JREX53

I am sorry I meant that to be a joke but did not qualify it as such. Not to mention it was a very bad one too. So please disregard the statement.

[Webster]

a few posts later i replied here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JREX53
Webster,

That is what I am getting at. You have changed the drag coefficients unnecessarily.
The advice I was given by Sam (swdw), who started the initial physics work for SH4, gave me was to adjust the engine HP until you get into the ballpark, then adjust the engine rpm to get what you want, otherwise if you just change the drag coefficients you are asking for the ship to do weird things ingame.


WEBSTER:
the drag coeficients were used from PT's advice and i threw those values i used away and settled on new values.

i worry lowering rpm too much will cause ships that slow for evasive zig zag manuvers to get stuck doing 5 kts trying to regain speed. do you have a suggested number to start at?

and your reply:



Webster,

I haven't gotten that totally figured out yet. I have been using the same drag coefficients for all ships so far. I have been using the same values for the L/R drag and another value for the U/D drag (both surfaced and submerged).

I too also looked at PT's values and decided not to use them. I am also using a different value for the center of gravity then what he used.

I also noticed that you are using values in both surfaced & submerged drafts (draughts). Is there a reason for this? Not trying to be critical, just curious.:06:

Keep up the good work on this, like Rockin' Robin said a while ago, the more people working on ships physics the better.

so you already said that you understood i had already come to the same conclusion of not using PT's values on my own so how can you now claim you told me to do that?

i was openly talking in posts about things that i was testing and often changing day to day in an effort that all of us could learn and maybe someone would come up with the best version of a mod, so should every person who ever made a valid comment on the subject get credited?. had you actually really given me any value then i would certainly credit you for doing so.

if anyone wants to read the whole thread to decide what really went on here it is: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=149001

[Webster]

As a suggestion, I would not use just the drag coefficients to cause the speed changes. You lead yourself open for weird things to happen in game. "

Which would mean, to me, that I gave you the idea to not use drag coefficients to control your ships, but yet you have not mentioned the fact, in your readme, that I had an influence on how you did your mod.

Frankly I don't really care if you did or not, but it would have been nice.


thats because drag coefficients ARE what controls ship stopping speeds and inertia.

if any info you gave me was used then i would have mentioned it but i was only hearing things i had already figured out.

mainly i was exclusively discussing settings to control ship stopping but you seemed to only be concerned with what you were told by others about horsepower settings


plus if credit was needed to be given it would rightly go to those who passed the info to you as well


i spent endless hours of testing and retesting all those values to discover for myself what they did and the effects they have.

i would credit anyone who contributed to it but i cant be expected to credit every opinion in every post about things being discussed in general terms.

EDIT:
if anyone wants to read the whole thread to decide what really went on here it is: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=149001

[JREX53]

JREX53

I am sorry I meant that to be a joke but did not qualify it as such. Not to mention it was a very bad one too. So please disregard the statement.

Oh ok!!:haha::har::haha::har::haha::har:

No harm done. But please left me know if you do find something weird happening.

[JREX53]

New Version of the Mod is up on SUBSIM and FileFront.

This version has the Light Cruisers completed. There are 2 separate downloads on the servers. One for the People who only play Stock or RFB without RSRDC, and the second one is for the people who play Stock or RFB with RSRDC.

Please enjoy the Mod

Links can be found in the First Post of this thread.

[JREX53]

I just found out I have to reupload the mods, I improperly zipped the mod.

I forgot to put the 2 folders into the "Data" Folder.

Sorry for the mix up, will have them uploaded tonight.

[Rockin Robbins]

I look forward to testing it tonight.

It seems like you and Webster are being way too testy with each other. You don't need to be duplicating each other's work, you need to be paying attention to how YOU are doing things and not copying each other's methods.

I doubt that Webster thought about the implications about what he said about you not testing his mod. Why would you even LOOK at his mod? As soon as you do you can be accused of copying. And you are encouraged to do things the easy way instead of first-hand research. Webster does not know that your mod has been in research for over twice as long as his. He only knows he released first and is assuming you are trying to horn in on "his territory" as a johnny-come-lately.

Players benefit when two truly independent mods are produced to address the same issue. Two heads aren't twice as good as one, they are about four times better. Just like the runner who looks back at his pursuer, breaks stride and loses the lead, it's best to look at the track ahead and run your own race. Later you can compare notes and mods, perhaps combining different methods to achieve a better mod than either of you can produce alone. Maybe there will always be two mods. Is that such a tragedy?

So far I notice that your mod has slower acceleration than Websters. Your mod has better station-keeping in convoys. I have noted one collision of convoy ships in your mod and none with his yet. Both mods are a thousand times better than stock and either mod alone would be perfectly acceptable.

[JREX53]

I have the corrected files uploaded to FileFront and one uploaded on SUBSIM. I got an error message when I tried to upload the second one to SUBSIM and am waiting a reply before I can get it uploaded.

[JREX53]

UPDATE to "SAP v0.3 Stock-RFB+RSRDC" Mod.


There was a error in the Stock/RFB/RSRDC version of my mod. The error will cause a CTD when attempting to view the Sub Chaser and Momi Patrol Boat in the Recognition Manual. The error was found by 399nkov, during testing, and the fix was found by Lurker.

The Patch can be found at the following links:
SUBSIM: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1146

and FileFront: http://files.filefront.com/SAP+v03+Stock+RFB+RSRDC+1rar/;13804809;/fileinfo.html

A Special Thank you to 399nkov and Lurker for finding and fixing my error.

[JREX53]

Newest Update for the mod is now available. See 1st post for more information.

[JREX53]

Newest Update for the mod is now available. See 1st post for links.

[Rockin Robbins]

Excellent! I know how much work you've put into this. It's great to see the open modding process work so well, as we got to see this move from an idea into a sorta-working mod, the feedback came in, the mod evolved and now we're ready for the next step. This is going to be GOOD!

Thanks for what you do.:up:

[andqui]

I'm absolutely fed up with the merchants zooming from 7 knots to 16 in the 15 seconds before my torpedoes hit. Is this the most current version of this? Would it be worth my time to go in and update the ship values in RFB with the ones from this mod, as I assume the RFB and RSDC combination that this was built for is out of date? Did this mod have any weird side-effects that made it unusable? Is there any other way to fix the speed-ups that I'm unaware of? Is everyone else just sucking it up, or is there something else that I'm not aware of?

thanks

[I'm goin' down]

great idea. an alternative to Webster's is a good idea.

[TorpX]

I'm absolutely fed up with the merchants zooming from 7 knots to 16 in the 15 seconds before my torpedoes hit. Is this the most current version of this? Would it be worth my time to go in and update the ship values in RFB with the ones from this mod, as I assume the RFB and RSDC combination that this was built for is out of date? Did this mod have any weird side-effects that made it unusable? Is there any other way to fix the speed-ups that I'm unaware of? Is everyone else just sucking it up, or is there something else that I'm not aware of?

thanks

I agree. The physics of SH4 is very poor, unfortunately. I inquired about an up-to-date physics mod for RFB some time ago. JREX said he was working on something, but I have heard nothing more. I believe everyone is more or less, just sucking it up these days. The RFB team is no longer active. It seems that there are very few modders actively working on SH4 now.

I can't say what the biggest obstacle to fixing this is. I had assumed it was some kind of interaction/ convoy issue, but this is only a guess on my part.

[razark]

It seems that there are very few modders actively working on SH4 now.
Sadly, this seems all too true. I'm not sure why it should be so, except for the infatuation some hold for u-boats. :roll:

[TorpX]

Sadly, this seems all too true. I'm not sure why it should be so, except for the infatuation some hold for u-boats. :roll:

Yeah, I don't get it either. U-boat fans seem to outnumber fleetboat fans here. I do not have anything against SH3/SH5. I played SH3 a little, and will probably do so again, but I would much prefer a well-crafted PTO sim. :cry:

I had thought this might be due to the novelty of SH5, but this does not appear to be the case.

[andqui]

I'm using sh3 and sh4 and enjoy them both. It is a shame that sh4 modding is moving at a much slower pace. Does anyone remember if this mod worked, or were there unintended side effects?

[TorpX]

There are different versions of the mod according to if you play RFB, or whatever. I think they work within limits, but do not know exactly what their limitations are. I suspect there are types of ships left out because they were added later. Maybe someone with more difinitive knowlage will fill us in.

[qjp]

Hi, could someone reupload SAP v 0.5 for RSRD ? The links from the first post on this thread leads to: subsim download v. 0.3 and filefront links are dead

Thanks in Advance

[Sailor Steve]

I just tried the Subsim link and it's fine.

[qjp]

I was referring to this link:
SUBSIM: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1314 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1138)
Cheers

[Sailor Steve]

I was referring to this link:
Cheers
Yep. As soon as I read your post I clicked on it again (from your link) and it took me straight to the mod.

[I'm goin' down]

Yep. As soon as I read your post I clicked on it again (from your link) and it took me straight to the mod.

Me too. And I downloaded it!!!!! :up:(Yea! Wahoo!! [Hmmm? Wahoo? That seems like a good name for my next boat!].)

[Sailor Steve]

Sadly, this seems all too true. I'm not sure why it should be so, except for the infatuation some hold for u-boats. :roll:
Well, I love both, and currently only play the u-boat side. This is not because of a preference but rather due to a pathalogical need to start from the beginning. That said, most of the things I've wanted to see in SH4 are things already done for SH3. I'm not too familiar with what still needs to be done for the fleet boats, other than complete interiors. You would have to fill me in on that part.

[I'm goin' down]

[INDENT] It seems that there are very few modders actively working on SH4 now.

Sadly, this seems all too true. I'm not sure why it should be so, except for the infatuation some hold for u-boats. :roll:

CapnScurvy is modding. He just completed some upgrades to the Optical Targeting Correction, which makes playing stock, with RSRDC, various mods, and his US radar from the beginning of the war, quite a challenge via map contacts disabled. It is a hell of a game! When he makes it compatible with TMO 2.2, I will die and go to heaven.

[I'm goin' down]

Well, I love both, and currently only play the u-boat side. This is not because of a preference but rather due to a pathalogical need to start from the beginning. That said, most of the things I've wanted to see in SH4 are things already done for SH3. I'm not too familiar with what still needs to be done for the fleet boats, other than complete interiors. You would have to fill me in on that part.

ATO is a very good game. My only issue is that I did not encounter enough allied capital ships. When I went hunting for the Bismark off the coast of Iceland, I was attacked by a British cruiser. I forgot that I was in a UBoat, and that the Bismark was on my side!! My UBoat was caught on the surface, and sustained multiple hits before I realized my mistake. That was the first (and last) capital ship I encountered. The Bismark? Oh, yea. I never even saw her, but I did have her on radar I beleive.:O:

[qjp]

Yep. As soon as I read your post I clicked on it again (from your link) and it took me straight to the mod.
Which is version 0.3 an i am looking for v. 0.5

Cheers

[KarlKoch]

Here you go:

With RSRDC (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1314)

Without RSRDC (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1313)

[qjp]

Thanks mate :up:

Cheers!