[WIP] PPI Interface [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

Nisgeis

04-16-09, 06:17 PM

Anvart

04-16-09, 09:25 PM

!

Is this something you intend to release?
This example i made for my friend ...
and these pictures for him only ...
He will understand all without words ...
:haha:

Anvart

04-17-09, 04:07 AM

Nisgeis

04-17-09, 06:38 AM

I do not understand about what you speak ...
or about your mod (Nisgeis_Bearing_Line_only) repeating works of others modders ...? :DL

Which mod are you saying that I repeated? There were a whole raft of mods for 1.3, but then something changed in 1.4 which made them not work anymore. I did a new version from scratch for 1.4 as people were asking for one. There weren't any other bearing line mods for 1.4 that I am aware of, hence why I made one as that's what people wanted. Now, if you did your own version for 1.4 and didn't realease it, then I can't really see how I am repeating something that hasn't been released.

Hitman

04-17-09, 07:42 AM

Sorry Anvart, but what exactly is that showing? The bottom right screenshot has the smiley face radar contacts - is that the change? High res smiley contacts? Is there meant to be a before and after sequence? As none of the screenshots match with the mod in this thread, it's hard to see what your post means.

I know a picture is worth a thousand words, but I am about 4,000 words short of what you are trying to show here - I'm assuming it's related to the mod this thread is about in some way?

I asked Anvart to help me with a mod I'm working on, to combine your range indicator with the Hi-res PPI display and then add a more historically accurate shader colour (orange-red instead of green). Anvart posted the pics to show progress/alternatives of shader with a hi-res background instead of the original one in 512x512, so the new thing in them is actually the new alternative shaders. The numbers get smaller and the colour is now much better to historic standards, plus the new shader allows me to hide now this little numbers with a mask while the old one didn't :up:

We are currently having a problem to put a hi-res single background in the A-Scope, instead of the current one, which is repeated 4 times. :damn: If someone has an idea how to do it, fire away :hmmm:

Hitman

04-17-09, 07:46 AM

EDITED:

Pics of WIP -->Please note that many things will still change!

Original hardcoded numbers in bith hidden below a mask.

Variant #1: Classic SJ display, bearing lines, no range lines, numbers on the outside. Replica of the one found at USS Cobia:

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/4655/shot1z.th.jpg (http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot1z.jpg)

Variant #2: Late War SJ display, bearing lines, range lines, numbers on the outside. Replica of the one found at USS Batfish (But without true bearings compass):

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9490/shot2.th.jpg (http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shot2.jpg)

Nisgeis

04-17-09, 01:30 PM

I asked Anvart to help me with a mod I'm working on, to combine your range indicator with the Hi-res PPI display and then add a more historically accurate shader colour (orange-red instead of green).

It's orangey red in stock 1.5.

We are currently having a problem to put a hi-res single background in the A-Scope, instead of the current one, which is repeated 4 times. :damn: If someone has an idea how to do it, fire away :hmmm:

Do you mean the green background for the A-Scope? It's a shared texture between the two scopes, unless you've removed it from the PPI shader, which it looks like from the pics. The file radar.dds is responsible for the background and is designed as a quarter, which is rotated about the bottom right corner to fill in the remaining three sections of the screen.

To create a 1024x1024 version, create a 512x512 texture and for example, circular gradient fill from the bottom right corner outwards to give you a quarter section.

EDIT: Or, you could create a 1024x1024 texture and divide the texels in two in the shader. This would cause more overhead though, as the game would be passing a 2048x2048 texture and I can't remember off the top of my head which sampler the range info and line gets passed in. If it's not passed in the same sampler as the background you should be OK to do it that way if you specifically need the different quadrants to look different.

Hitman

04-17-09, 03:18 PM

It's orangey red in stock 1.5.

Yes, but not in the hi res mod, and the shader didn't admit the effects I wanted to put on it (mask)

Do you mean the green background for the A-Scope? It's a shared texture between the two scopes, unless you've removed it from the PPI shader, which it looks like from the pics. The file radar.dds is responsible for the background and is designed as a quarter, which is rotated about the bottom right corner to fill in the remaining three sections of the screen.

To create a 1024x1024 version, create a 512x512 texture and for example, circular gradient fill from the bottom right corner outwards to give you a quarter section.

EDIT: Or, you could create a 1024x1024 texture and divide the texels in two in the shader. This would cause more overhead though, as the game would be passing a 2048x2048 texture and I can't remember off the top of my head which sampler the range info and line gets passed in. If it's not passed in the same sampler as the background you should be OK to do it that way if you specifically need the different quadrants to look different.

The problem is I want a single texture because I want to add in a precision scale for range, so that long ranges can be readed in gross (10ks) from the scale and in fine detail from your range indicator. A repeated texture doesn't work for me, as I can't use it for adding a single scale. If you have any ideas or suggestions to solve that, I'd be glad to take them :yep:

Nisgeis

04-17-09, 05:54 PM

Yes, but not in the hi res mod, and the shader didn't admit the effects I wanted to put on it (mask)

The 'high res' part of the mod is just setting the resolution value in the .sim of the interior, e.g. \data\Interior\NSS_Porpoise\NSS_Porpoise_CT.sim. Change RadarView.Tex_Dim to be higher than 256 and the radar screen will render to that resolution. It's a simple change that can be made with S3D, or a change that can be made by a simple person not using S3D. It's independant of the colour of the screen, which is altered by the shaders - the two are mutually exclusive.

The problem is I want a single texture because I want to add in a precision scale for range, so that long ranges can be readed in gross (10ks) from the scale and in fine detail from your range indicator. A repeated texture doesn't work for me, as I can't use it for adding a single scale. If you have any ideas or suggestions to solve that, I'd be glad to take them :yep:

In the EDIT part which you quoted is the answer if you want the quadrants to be different. Unfortunately, I'm very busy at the moment and don't have very much free time, which is why I didn't have time to give complete instructions. Anvart, if he is as good as he likes to make out, should be able to follow my instructions. I'm surprised he was unable to come up with this himself, but perhaps now a solution has been offered, he will in fact have come up with it well over a year ago. :):DL:D:haha::har: (That's my homage to Anvart's style). An homage means I respect his style.

Now, I only said what I said based on the last time I looked at the shader code, which was last year, so I wasn't sure of the facts, but as I have been under the direction of Dr. Stella Artois this evening, I found myself with some free time, where I could not conduct other useful business. I had a quick run through the files and came up with this:

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg307/Nisgeis/SubSim/CheeseGromitt.jpg

Now, you can clearly see the affect of the four cans of Stella that I'd already consumed when I started the project, so excuse the homage to Wallace and Gromitt, whose style I also respect, but in a much more real way.

So there you go, that's the result of one hours drunk modding. I do hope this doesn't drive a dark knife into the cold heart of modders everywhere.

Should we really be hijacking this thread? After all, this is a thread for a completed mod by Demonizer, yet it's now being used as a WIP thread... A little modding etiquette wouldn't go amiss eh?

Hitman

04-18-09, 02:59 AM

Should we really be hijacking this thread? After all, this is a thread for a completed mod by Demonizer, yet it's now being used as a WIP thread... A little modding etiquette wouldn't go amiss eh?

Fair enoutgh, I'll ask the moderators to split threads :up:

Hitman

04-18-09, 07:09 AM

Cool, many thanks for splitting it guys :up:

LukeFF

04-19-09, 06:30 PM

That is really looking good, Hitman! I would love to add it to RFB if/when you guys complete it.

In regards to the shared texture issue, there is a very easy fix. Open up the SIM file for each sub interior (Gato_CT, Porpoise_CT, Salmon_CT, and Sclass_CR), and scroll down to the RadarView section. You'll see a parameter called Tga_file; this is what controls what graphic is used for each radar display. If you're really enterprising and want to expand this mod to the U-boats, you could finally rid them of the files they share with the American scopes. :yep:

Hitman

04-20-09, 02:39 AM

That is really looking good, Hitman! I would love to add it to RFB if/when you guys complete it.

Sure, all the mods I do strive for realism and replicating the real thing look and functionality, so it is a honour if your team accepts them as good enough for RFB :yeah:

If you're really enterprising and want to expand this mod to the U-boats, you could finally rid them of the files they share with the American scopes. :yep:

Yes I know this could be done, but honestly I don't use the U-Boats part of the game at all. For U-Boats I prefer to play NYGM or GWX in SH3, as the flexibility of that game allows me to use different menu and screen layouts (F.e. all TDC in the periscope and UZO views) I like more, and graphics are just a secondary consideration for me.

Cheers

Nisgeis

04-20-09, 11:57 AM

Thanks for the compliment Anvart, it's good to see you saying nice things about other people's work :up:.

EDIT: By the way, how long had you been using HLSL for, before you looked at the shader code for SH4?

LukeFF

04-21-09, 03:05 PM

Sure, all the mods I do strive for realism and replicating the real thing look and functionality, so it is a honour if your team accepts them as good enough for RFB :yeah:

Yep, it's looking really good! I've not been totally satisfied with the PPI display, even though the devs did improve it greatly with one of the patches.

From the looks of those screenshots, have you guys managed to get rid of the jagged edge of the radar beam?

Anvart

04-21-09, 03:14 PM

Thanks for the compliment Anvart, it's good to see you saying nice things about other people's work :up:.

Sorry ... :cry:

EDIT: By the way, how long had you been using HLSL for, before you looked at the shader code for SH4?
Sorry, i was not interested HLSL before SH4 ... :oops:

Nisgeis

04-21-09, 05:47 PM

Sorry, i was not interested HLSL before SH4 ... :oops:

No, neither was I, that shader code was the first piece I ever saw and after an hour that's what I came up with. It's not perfect, but it works :D. I'd do a lot better now mind :|\\.

Anvart

04-22-09, 01:23 AM

No, neither was I, ... :haha:. I'd do a lot better now mind ...
Do not doubt ...
but key words "Trash Style" ...

Nisgeis

04-22-09, 03:27 AM

key words "Trash Style" ...

Yep, they key is to thrash the mods and get them out quickly.

Anvart

04-22-09, 03:59 AM

:rotfl:
may be, ...
but i don't like ...

Nisgeis

04-22-09, 07:09 AM

:rotfl:
may be, ...
but i don't like ...

If you don't like it, then it might be an idea to not look through other people's mods. Simple solution :up:.

Anvart

04-26-09, 06:53 AM

If you don't like it, then it might be an idea to not look through other people's mods. Simple solution :up:.
Your prob's...
Read and understand ...

Nisgeis

04-26-09, 11:41 AM

Your prob's...
Read and understand ...

I see you have been removing some of your more obnoxious posts from the forum, well done :yeah:.

Is that black area still able to display contacts?

Nisgeis

04-26-09, 05:35 PM

Well, reading between the lines...

Are you returning black instead of the radar screen texture to remove the default bearing numbers?

Hitman

04-27-09, 02:38 AM

Isn't the black area simply an alpha channel mask? I did it with good results as seen in the screens I posted above :hmmm:

Anvart

04-27-09, 02:49 AM

No ...
But ...
You have made all correctly! :up:
...
My pic's ... are entertainment only ... :oops:

I see you have been removing some of your more obnoxious posts from the forum, ...
Because i see you do not understand me... and consequently you write different bosh...

Nisgeis

04-27-09, 06:21 AM

Wouldn't it be better to have the whole PPI screen display targets, rather than blanking off a section?

Hitman

04-27-09, 07:26 AM

Wouldn't it be better to have the whole PPI screen display targets, rather than blanking off a section?

To blank a small section has both the utility of hiding the waful encoded numbers and also allwoing to give the radar display the exact look it had, with a bearings ring on the outside. I had already planned changing the distance display in the obj or sim file to ensure that you would still see on the visible part the maximum distance intended. And since we can place the camera closer, you won't have any problem in seeing the details accurately. :up:

Nisgeis

04-27-09, 12:27 PM

To blank a small section has both the utility of hiding the waful encoded numbers and also allwoing to give the radar display the exact look it had, with a bearings ring on the outside. I had already planned changing the distance display in the obj or sim file to ensure that you would still see on the visible part the maximum distance intended. And since we can place the camera closer, you won't have any problem in seeing the details accurately. :up:

Why not just remove the numbers and still use the full amount of the display, so the targets displayed under the new numbers? As an aside, as far as I know, the bearings weren't shown on the actual display in the SJ sets. I think they were on the wheel that rotated the head round.

How about:
Border = 10 in RadarView ...? :03:

I don't think that setting has any effect on the PPI scope, only the 'A' scope.

Hitman

04-27-09, 12:50 PM

How about:
Border = 10 in RadarView ...? :03:

Nope, that doesn't work, have already tried.

Why not just remove the numbers and still use the full amount of the display, so the targets displayed under the new numbers?

Because the real SJ displays actually had that dead zone on the border of the screen, a rim with the bearing numbers.

As an aside, as far as I know, the bearings weren't shown on the actual display in the SJ sets. I think they were on the wheel that rotated the head round.

No, no, they were there. Look closely at this pic (it has the numbers in an outside ring each 30 degrees)

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/5421/p2050014.jpg

Nisgeis

04-27-09, 01:24 PM

Wow, they're tiny :) and that border is very small. No wonder I never noticed before - That looks like the USS Cobia's set?

Hitman

04-27-09, 02:37 PM

Yes, it's the USS Cobia SJ PPI display :up:

And this is the mask overlay I have prepared for it, when the mod is finished :D

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/5545/blurredsjred.jpg

Anvart

04-27-09, 11:32 PM

Yes, it's the USS Cobia SJ PPI display :up:

And this is the mask overlay I have prepared for it, when the mod is finished :D

:up:
...

LukeFF

04-28-09, 12:37 AM

Yes, it's the USS Cobia SJ PPI display :up:

And this is the mask overlay I have prepared for it, when the mod is finished :D

Now that is a PPI display! Good job on that!

EDIT: the only thing that I can bring up is the orientation of the bearing numbers. This illustration of the SC/SK radar from the 1945 Radar Operator's Manual shows the bearing numbers oriented slightly different:

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/radar/img/fig4scsk-2.jpg

Now, it may be that you have other detailed images of the SJ-1 PPI that confirm it's correct as it is now. Just thought I'd bring this up, nonetheless.

Nisgeis

04-28-09, 06:43 AM

The radar manual for the SJ set talks about drawing on bearing lines and range rings with a grease pencil, so it seems unlikely that it was an original feature to have the bearing lines on the scope. The accurate bearing graduations were on the wheel, marked in quarter degrees. But it doesn't really matter - the in game set doesn't allow accurate ranges on multiple targets, so we'll have to make it the best we can with what there is to work with.

Hitman

04-28-09, 07:26 AM

EDIT: the only thing that I can bring up is the orientation of the bearing numbers. This illustration of the SC/SK radar from the 1945 Radar Operator's Manual shows the bearing numbers oriented slightly different:

Thanks Luke, I had that picture but after digging around, it seems that radar wasn't ever installed in fleet boats. I have however pictures of late war models of the SJ display, which seems to have evolved considerably. In the Batfish it even included rotable ring linked to the compass repeater which showed at the same time true and relative bearings to the target, as well as very detailed bearing lines for precision (This pic was posted here long ago by someone I can't remember now, many thanks in any case to him for sharing):

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/9769/batfishradar.th.jpg (http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batfishradar.jpg)

The radar manual for the SJ set talks about drawing on bearing lines and range rings with a grease pencil, so it seems unlikely that it was an original feature to have the bearing lines on the scope.

It probably wasn't in the first models, however it might have been in later ones. The picture I showed above of the USS cobia radar shows not just drawn lines, but also lines that are evidently in 3D, i.e. there is some kind of dent or engraved channel in the glass that will later light up when the radar is switched on.

Take a look at this second picture of the PPI of an SJ radar, but switched off:

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/7500/imagen1heh.jpg

These lines that show there are evidently different, not in 3D but instead draw on the glass. But the display on the Cobia looks like the one from Batfish above, the lines are tiny glass tubes. :hmmm:

Nisgeis

04-28-09, 03:07 PM

Got a spare bit of time and here is the new shader with a simple sample grid, ready to be drawn on however Hitman sees fit.

http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg307/Nisgeis/SubSim/AScopeGrid.jpg

Hitman

04-28-09, 03:13 PM

COOL :yeah:

Will test and report :salute::ping:

LukeFF

04-28-09, 11:54 PM

Thanks Luke, I had that picture but after digging around, it seems that radar wasn't ever installed in fleet boats. I have however pictures of late war models of the SJ display, which seems to have evolved considerably. In the Batfish it even included rotable ring linked to the compass repeater which showed at the same time true and relative bearings to the target, as well as very detailed bearing lines for precision (This pic was posted here long ago by someone I can't remember now, many thanks in any case to him for sharing)

Nice detailed pic there. :cool: You are right, the SC/SK series of radar sets wasn't installed in fleet boats. It was the standard air search radar for surface units from about early 1943 onwards.

Hitman

05-12-09, 07:05 AM

This is the problem I get (It is also there if I give the radar a larger texture):

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2391/problemtgw.jpg

Anvart

05-12-09, 07:22 AM

I don't see ...
On left part ...
you have angular numbers through 30° ?
What texture i see on right part?

P.S.
At first ... in NSS_Gato_CT.sim file you have repeated Demonizer's error ...

Hitman

05-12-09, 08:44 AM

On left part ...
you have angular numbers through 30° ?

Yes, the problem seems to be that both PPI and A-Scope are rendering in the background an old texture from Nisgeis' mod.

OOOOOOOOPPPPPSSSSS :o:o Now that I write this, I have just fallen from the tree!! I think I have the solution, hang on I will come back in a moment :ping:

Hitman

05-12-09, 09:01 AM

OK, problem SOLVED!! Me idiot had put a wrong name in the .sim file, hence it was reading the OLD texture and not the new one :damn:

When I was writing the message above and said that the game was reading the old texture....I realized that something had to be pointing at it, then.

Anyway, it works now perfectly :yeah:

Only a minor tweak still to do, adjust the PPI distance displayed, and ready for final testing and release :ping:

Anvart

05-14-09, 06:26 AM

One of the most simple solutions:

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/2301/hit03.jpg

AVGWarhawk

05-14-09, 07:43 AM

Looks fantastic gents:yeah:

jmr

05-14-09, 01:08 PM

Wow I like that!

jmr

05-19-09, 03:40 PM

How is this progressing?

:D

Hitman

05-19-09, 04:41 PM

Funny that you ask....

Beta version has just been sent to Nisgeis and Anvart ten minutes ago for approval, if they find it OK it will be released inmediately, both in Metric (With optional digital range readout) and Imperial (without digital range readout) versions :D

Features:

-Hi res PPI and A-Scope display (1024x1024)
-A-Scope with single background and range scale
-PPI with historical layout
-Tweaked cameras to allow checking the bearing dial from A-Scope
-Re-scaled PPI to fit the new reduced part of the screen
-Range readout (Only in metric system version)
-Recalibrated and fixed radar bearing indicator (Above the A-Scope)

Current range precision with the new scale is +/- 50 yards when using the 20.000 yards scale, +/- 150 yards with the 60.000 yards one.

Previews:

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/1993/radardisplay.th.jpg (http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=radardisplay.jpg)

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/1862/ascope.th.jpg (http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ascope.jpg)

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6523/ppi.th.jpg (http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ppi.jpg)

Highbury

05-20-09, 01:26 AM

That is very impressive.

Ubisoft should really just make a new engine every year or two, sell it for $20 and give it free to the modders here :)

As always in this game and the previous ones, you guys really do make it worth playing.

polyfiller

05-20-09, 05:22 PM

Hitman - great news about the mod.... I'm working on the TSWSM and wondered if yoyu could advise on how to get the digital range readout to show up in the deck gun station (I do have a very good reason for doing this) ? I'm guessing it's a mod of the menu.ini file ?

Hitman

05-21-09, 10:23 AM

You want the digital readout from the radar to appear at the gun station? I take it you are after radar-directed gun control, right?

Theoretically this should be possible as long as you do it on a 3D station(Though Nisgeis is the one who can tell better) by adding the 3D model of the digital readout to that station and then configuring it to display the radar numbers in Silent 3ditor (That's basically what Nisgeis did if I understood his mod correctly).

You won't be able to do that in a 2D station, however, because you need to place the 3D model somewhere, which you can't do in a 2D station.

Oh, and AFAIK this all also isn't done via the menu_ini (As that one is exclusively for the 2D stations), but via 3D models instead, as explained.