[WIP] Letters From Home Mod

[GoldenRivet]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_JGyMlGQKTSM/SeAXo-sdVHI/AAAAAAAAAVE/MYMnadhtdrc/s320/LFH.jpg

A work in progress as an addition to SH3 Commander by JScones

A mod by:

GoldenRivet
TheDudTorpedo
UnderSeaLcpl
Contact
Chad
Sharkley
Brag
TorpedoMo
Archive1

Currently, the Letters from home mod is a work in progress which, is intended to serve as a total immersion mod by functioning through SH3 Commander.

Letters From Home will provide your Kaluen with an option to check mail at the start of each patrol while in port.

Letters will develop a story line for your family, friends, parents, wives or girlfriends or even your children. Sometimes mail will be held up by allied air raids, in later war years you may not hear from your family at all... and sometimes... your entire family may even be killed in an air raid.

The goal of the Letters from home mod is to not only provide you with something to look forward while being in port between missions... but it is also meant to tell a story of the second world war that is often overlooked; The interpersonal relationship between those at home and those abroad.

The mod is loosely planned to work as follows:

A high number of random story lines are currently in development.

once these story lines are complete (made so by a series of letters that moves the story line along) they will be submitted to JScones for inclusion into a release of SH3 Commander.

when you start a new career in 1939, your commander will be randomly assigned one of these story lines. As the war rages on, the story line will develop in a logical sequence until the completion of the war.

Will your family survive the allied air raids?

will the bomb shelter in your parents basement hold together?

will the advance of the Russian front well into your home town separate you from your family for untold decades as Germany is devided into East and West?

the answers lie in the storied pages of... Letters from home.

progress to be posted in this thread

EDIT: UPDATED 4/11/2009 1955 HOURS CENTRAL USA

[GoldenRivet]

We are still taking volunteers.

if you are interested in participating, please visit:

Tonnage Wars - Index (http://www.themfc.com/index.php)

sign up and and look for the Mod workshop forum

[von schatten]

Fantastic idea. Looking forward to this one.

[HW3]

What a outstanding idea!:up: Like von schatten, looking forward to this one.

[Sharkley]

Here is a great timeline for WW2, this one deals with the battle for the Atlantic. May be of use in storylines etc.

1939 (http://www.worldwar-2.net/timelines/war-at-sea/atlantic/battle-of-the-atlantic-index-1939.htm)

1940 (http://www.worldwar-2.net/timelines/war-at-sea/atlantic/battle-of-the-atlantic-index-1940.htm)

1941 (http://www.worldwar-2.net/timelines/war-at-sea/atlantic/battle-of-the-atlantic-index-1941.htm)

1942 (http://www.worldwar-2.net/timelines/war-at-sea/atlantic/battle-of-the-atlantic-index-1942.htm)

1943 (http://www.worldwar-2.net/timelines/war-at-sea/atlantic/battle-of-the-atlantic-index-1943.htm)

1944 (http://www.worldwar-2.net/timelines/war-at-sea/atlantic/battle-of-the-atlantic-index-1944.htm)

1945 (http://www.worldwar-2.net/timelines/war-at-sea/atlantic/battle-of-the-atlantic-index-1945.htm)

[UnderseaLcpl]

@ Sharkley- thanks for the timeline:up:


So.....can we discuss plotlines and stuff here? Or do we have to keep them secret?

[Sharkley]

My thought would be to make them public without diving into to much detail unless needed or asked for.

I mean the history is already written so plot lines should follow this to some degree..

[GoldenRivet]

limited publicity i would think.

for example i have developed the characters a wife for the kaluen in my story line, his parents and a baby boy. his friend Josef always seems to be out to sea and is sending him little notes now and then about his victories and challenges at sea.

the wife sends news from home, occasionally mentioning the childs first steps or first words etc etc or she may reflect on old times she had with the player in peace time.

our goal is to develop the idea that the player who takes the time to read these letters from home will eventually begin to care for the character - and when letters stop coming, or are delayed for a mission or two - the player should hopefully start thinking "man- i wonder what is going on? i have not been getting any letters from home"

of course like any good book or story you dont give away the ending or hint at it too much... but there are numerous plot outcomes possible

either the family has escaped bombing raids into the country, or they are constantly on the move from advancing fronts, or perhaps they have been tragically killed im a bombing raid?

there are dozens of possibilities.

EDIT:

a word about time lines... i have been using a similar time line to that which sharkley posted however a word of caution which you already may know... some of the events of the war the characters may not hear of for a few days if at all... so for example, if a U-boat sinks or the USA signs the lend lease agreement - the german mother character might not know of these things.

just something to think about

[UnderseaLcpl]

That all sounds reasonable, but it is too bad we can't share plotline ideas too much, we might be able to come up with some good stuff and keep from giving the player too much of the same. I trust that will be fixed in the editing process if it happens.

I have one more question, though. Can we set up an email account to send these things or do we have to use PM? The text limits on PM make it hard to send more than two month's worth of correspondence at one time. Also, what kind of timetable are we working with here?

[Sharkley]

In order to do that a "Private" forum would be needed for a select few.

I guess it could be done if we ask nice enough to the mods or create a board somewhere else on a temp basis.

[Sailor Steve]

Looks like it might be a good one! Best of luck to the writers.:sunny:

[TarJak]

Can't wait!:yeah: Great idea fellas.

[Archive1]

Seems like an interesting idea. How do you intend to handle the existence of heavy censorship by the Security Service? Not only would the 'folks at home' not know about a great deal of stuff (except via clandestine radio and the BBC) but they would have been precluded from divulging events considered useful knowledge to the Allies - eg, the results of a local bombing raid, the transfer or frontline experience of a family member ("Your brother, Kurt, was recently injured in the retreat from Benghazi last month." etc)

How will the 'letter' appear onscreen? As a popup? I would suppose that Scones will be the guru for that since they will be part of his commander program.

Is the group listed at the beginning the entire group writing, or are you accepting volunteers with some writing experience and a reasonable command of the language?

I should think that the writing group will be rather small and, thus, able to communicate via personal email. Perhaps a free email account used by all - such as Lycos, Qmail, hotmail, Juno or some equivalent - would suffice. In that case writers can move product around the horn with ease and rapidity and keep the suspense behind the tapestry, as it were. I would not broadcast too much to the sim world or the randomness and mystery will be at least diluted if not destroyed.

Might be helpful to see if one can involve a female writer. Hairy males are at a disadvantage when it comes to simulating "Anna" or "Schwester Liese" or a mother.

I seem to remember Scones working on an Award Project in which certificates equivalent to awards would somehow become part of the Commander's file. Perhaps this would substitute for that.

Archive1

[Laufen zum Ziel]

That all sounds reasonable, but it is too bad we can't share plotline ideas too much, we might be able to come up with some good stuff and keep from giving the player too much of the same. I trust that will be fixed in the editing process if it happens.

I have one more question, though. Can we set up an email account to send these things or do we have to use PM? The text limits on PM make it hard to send more than two month's worth of correspondence at one time. Also, what kind of timetable are we working with here?

Set up a free email account at yahoo with a password. Once the account is set up give the Password via PM to those involved in your great project. Each of you then would be able to check/add daily to the account. Downside is only one password so you would all share and manage the email.

Good luck.

[GoldenRivet]

("Your brother, Kurt, was recently injured in the retreat from Benghazi last month." etc)

LFH MOD translates this as "Your Brother, Kurt, Has not been heard from for almost two months now." or similar message. Occasionally, the sensors will in fact heavily edit a message from home :up:

How will the 'letter' appear onscreen? As a popup? I would suppose that Scones will be the guru for that since they will be part of his commander program.

this has not been finalized and will ultimately be up to JScones... however, my thinking is that there will be an addition to the menu where you can select "update your personnel file, manage your crew, review your patrol logs, CHECK MAIL." or some similar function.

Is the group listed at the beginning the entire group writing, or are you accepting volunteers with some writing experience and a reasonable command of the language?

so far, yes. more volunteers are needed, ideally as much as 15 total would be good but probably not more than that.

I should think that the writing group will be rather small and, thus, able to communicate via personal email. Perhaps a free email account used by all - such as Lycos, Qmail, hotmail, Juno or some equivalent - would suffice. In that case writers can move product around the horn with ease and rapidity and keep the suspense behind the tapestry, as it were. I would not broadcast too much to the sim world or the randomness and mystery will be at least diluted if not destroyed.

Im looking into options for alternative means of communication, however with the Easter Holiday holidays we are on a bit of a slow weekend to start with. Im open to suggestions at this point and we should have something resolved by the end of the week.

Might be helpful to see if one can involve a female writer. Hairy males are at a disadvantage when it comes to simulating "Anna" or "Schwester Liese" or a mother.

This i have considered but i can only work with those who volunteer. I guess as players of SH3 and as males - we sort of know what sort of things we want to hear from our "Annas and Elizabeths" at least one of our members has military experience and is used to reading these letters - we all know what sort of things moms say when they write to us or call :DL

[GoldenRivet]

Great News -

Brag - our esteemed colleague and author of "Kingmaker" and the Balz saga has just agreed to help us out with the mod.

:rock:

[UnderseaLcpl]

Great News -

Brag - our esteemed colleague and author of "Kingmaker" and the Balz saga has just agreed to help us out with the mod.

:rock:

:rock: indeed! His stuff should be epic!


Wait, no.... on second thought, kick him out. He'll make me look bad:cry:

[JScones]

I seem to remember Scones working on an Award Project in which certificates equivalent to awards would somehow become part of the Commander's file. Perhaps this would substitute for that.
This kinda fell by the wayside.

However, I was conversing with Laufen zum Ziel last night and felt buoyed enough to revisit the initiative, at least initially with something simple. I have revisted the thread and posted what I did last night. See it here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=131580&page=3).

[JScones]

("Your brother, Kurt, was recently injured in the retreat from Benghazi last month." etc)

LFH MOD translates this as "Your Brother, Kurt, Has not been heard from for almost two months now." or similar message. Occasionally, the sensors will in fact heavily edit a message from home :up:
I assume letters will also include information tainted by propaganda + fog of war? For example, mention of the pending great victory at Stalingrad, or the great fightback against the Americans in North Africa (for example)?

How will the 'letter' appear onscreen? As a popup? I would suppose that Scones will be the guru for that since they will be part of his commander program.

this has not been finalized and will ultimately be up to JScones... however, my thinking is that there will be an addition to the menu where you can select "update your personnel file, manage your crew, review your patrol logs, CHECK MAIL." or some similar function.
Correct, it will be a new action titled "Read mail" (because all the letters you've received so far will be there to view).

[JScones]

That all sounds reasonable, but it is too bad we can't share plotline ideas too much, we might be able to come up with some good stuff and keep from giving the player too much of the same. I trust that will be fixed in the editing process if it happens.

I have one more question, though. Can we set up an email account to send these things or do we have to use PM? The text limits on PM make it hard to send more than two month's worth of correspondence at one time. Also, what kind of timetable are we working with here?
Set up a free forum or piggyback onto one that exists (for example here, bts-mods, or Tonnage War). You'll only need to use it for a short time.

[TarJak]

This site might help in terms of some ideas for the style of the letters if not the content: http://ww2.letters.ie/

[JScones]

For complete immersion/authenticity I can always use a period Sütterlin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%BCtterlin) script...

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8671/image1ijg.jpg

Yes, believe it or not the letter above is in English. ;)

[Hitman]

Yes, believe it or not the letter above is in English. ;)

If you think that's complicated, then take a look at the russian cyrilic alphabet....and its hand-written variant :doh: The most confusing part of it is that many signs we are used to, have a different meaning (F.e. our "C" is their "S") but then also change again when hand-writing to another symbol, sometimes coincident with the printed format, sometimes not.

Anyway, great effort for inmersion guys, looking forward to it :up:

[LordNeuro"Serbia"]

I dont know is it spoken about it bat i think it would be good idea too add pictures too, from home if is possibol. Then whean u reciv leter u get pictures too of u wife, girfrend , kids and so on. But theat may be hard too implement. Well just a thot.:smug:

[Sharkley]

Spoke to GoldenRivet via PM and have a MOD forum setup on the TW site.

Click my sig and create a account and zi'll set us up in a membersgroup.
:salute:

[GoldenRivet]

I just registered a few minutes ago.

sorry it took so long guys.

Sharkley if you dont mind PMing the other members about this? i would appreciate it :up:

[Sharkley]

Not a problem,

I'm make sure everyone is PM'd with 24 hours

Ok, I have sent all PM's, if I missed anyone please reply to this post or PM me.

Many Thanks

[Archive1]

Here's one example ot fonts that appear handwritten but are still readable, and of, perhaps, what you have in mind.

Maybe you could add me to the PM list as a 'volunteer' writer?

Johan,

I understand that shortly you will be leaving for sea duty although, of course, you cannot tell us exactly when or from where you will depart die Heimat. But this old man can guess!
My lips are sealed however.

I should tell you that your graduation from Unterseeboot school was a proud day for this old soldier. And, hard as it is to say, I agree with your mother – you look better in your uniform than I did. I was impressed by the professionalism and commitment that your fellow graduates displayed. Deutschland is proud of all of you!

The coming months will be hard, I know, when many decisions about things still not experienced will have to be made, but you have been well trained by excellent officers who served our country in the last war. They expect you to carry their work forward and in a way, finish the job they had no chance to complete.. The new government of Herr Hitler seems to be well focused upon rebuilding a strong military, both Army and Navy. We hope the Reichstag will have the strength of will to provide the money needed to give you and your Kameraden the weapons and boats you need to win. Of your patriotism and courage we have no doubt.

I’’ll quit here and let your mother add a few words.

Do your duty to God and Country, son.

Liebechen Johan:
Please be careful and return to us safely.. I shall keep you in my daily prayers until you are back with us. Anna sends her greetings too. We see her often on weekends when she visits from Hamburg. Mutti

[JScones]

Here's one example ot fonts that appear handwritten but are still readable, and of, perhaps, what you have in mind.
Yes, I will be using the Desyrel font for handwritten letters.

Like the rest of the SH3Cmdr interface, players will be able to choose between it, or a standard system font, to display handwritten letters.

Which makes me think - will you want letters written in different coloured pens? If so, tell me the colours you plan on using (I guess the usual three of black, blue and red).

[GoldenRivet]

i would think black or blue would be most frequently used.

or grey for pencil? :hmmm:

[GoldenRivet]

Please see page one post #1 for an updated list of Volunteers

thanks

[JScones]

Yeah, I can do grey.

[Archive1]

JScones:
I've put this example into several versions of various free handwriting and typewriting fonts. Would it be at all useful for you if I uploaded them to you to review alternatives? You may already have fixed in your mind what you want to use; if so I won't bother you, otherwise let me know and I can PM you with the other examples and give you links (or the TT fonts themselves) for the fonts. The examples are done in Word, and I know now that they will be submitted in Notepad versions.

Oh - I think that only black and blue would be appropriate. My example was in color merely to be readable against a black background.
Cordially, Archive1

[Archive1]

GoldenRivet:
Do we have a fluent German speaker on board? The inclusion of an occasional (and correctly used and spelled) German word would certainly add some, at least marginal, atmospherics to the 'letter' - my German is quite rusty and I'd not trust it very far. Been a long long time since I was stationed in Germany (Spangdahlem AFB).

[GoldenRivet]

TorpedoMo speaks German.

go to Tonnage Wars - Index (http://www.themfc.com/index.php) and register to volunteer if you have not already done so, then look for the "Mod Worshop" section

[martes86]

Sorry to be the opposite note here, but, in my opinion as a great U-Boot fan (I'm from the community "24 Flotilla", in case you don't know me), this is wrong and of no real use to the community. We're supposed to be the Kaleun ourselves, with our real names whatever they are, so of what point is it to be called Johann and get letters from a mother or a wife we don't have (at least, not where the fictional one is from)?

Seeing these "letters" here looks like romantizising too much U-Boats or the events surrounding them, and frankly, I wouldn't like to see SH3 converted into a soap opera, or worse, the open (but not really explicit) justification of specific war events or behaviours (like the greatness of Hitler's figure) that should be reprobable, even for an U-Boot fan. In my opinion, there are some limits as to what should a mod represent or implement in our sims, and while some friends of mine think that the line has been crossed a few times regarding some individuals' behaviour and therefore this mod comes as no surprise to them, it has greatly surprised me.

I think you should all reconsider the purpose and existence of this mod, as it goes beyond a point where I honestly think only movies and reenacters should go. Remember when the real Zentralemaat Pilgrim shot himself after seeing Das Boot? Then imagine what would he have felt after seeing what you guys are doing here. One thing is pretending we're all Kaleuns commanding our sub, sinking merchants, and other thing is pretending we even have a Hitler-glorifying wife, which I honestly think adds absolutely NOTHING to SH3 realism. Please use your time in something more useful like scripting missions, or doing skins, or making new ship models, but please stop going so deep with the so called "realism" or "inmersion", I think we already feel "inmersed" just by commanding our ship and sinking the enemy.

Thanks for your time.


PS.: Oh and, please, moderators, don't edit my post, it's in no way my intention to cause trouble, I write this as an honest and personal opinion, and in no way should be associated with the 24th's official position, even though we ban any glorification of the nazi regime.

[AndyW]

TorpedoMo speaks German.

go to Tonnage Wars - Index (http://www.themfc.com/index.php) and register to volunteer if you have not already done so, then look for the "Mod Worshop" section

I volunteer to translate letters fron english into german. But given the project scope of 500-700 letters, my help would be limited to maybe 1-3 letters per working day, I'm afraid. And to be honest, I'm not sure if I have the nerve to translate hundreds of letters in my little free time. So either this going to be a "limited edition" of a cuople dozen letters in German or just some occasional letters in German, while the others are in english, not sure

Cheers,

[GoldenRivet]

First Martes86 i want to let you know that your opinion is valued, and we appreciate the input. I will do my best to address the issues you have brought up one by one here.

this is wrong and of no real use to the community. We're supposed to be the Kaleun ourselves, with our real names whatever they are, so of what point is it to be called Johann and get letters from a mother or a wife we don't have (at least, not where the fictional one is from)?

This mod is solely for those players who use "SH3 Commander" to run SH3. It simply wont work and cannot work unless you are an SH3 Commander user. The name you select for your commander is handled through SH3 Commander... a function in SH3 commander allows us to use your commanders name for all letters. This way whenever you're commander receives a letter in the SH3 Commander program it will always be addressed to your specific commander and it will always be from a specific individual from within a story line. ie "Mother" or "Loving Wife, Wilga" or whatever. This way... when you have decided your commanders name is "benny wilhelm" your letters will all be addressed to "benny wilhelm" and the name "johann" or "josef" or "willy whacker" is not forced on you.

Seeing these "letters" here looks like romantizising too much U-Boats or the events surrounding them, and frankly, I wouldn't like to see SH3 converted into a soap opera, or worse, the open (but not really explicit) justification of specific war events or behaviours (like the greatness of Hitler's figure) that should be reprobable, even for an U-Boot fan. In my opinion, there are some limits as to what should a mod represent or implement in our sims, and while some friends of mine think that the line has been crossed a few times regarding some individuals' behaviour and therefore this mod comes as no surprise to them, it has greatly surprised me.

The simple solution is - dont download and install the mod, this mod (nor any other) will be FORCED on you to use. :up:

Be aware that NONE of the letters will likely have anything good to say about Hitler and his destruction of Germany from within. and nothing in the mod will serve to glorify nazism.

I think you should all reconsider the purpose and existence of this mod, as it goes beyond a point where I honestly think only movies and reenacters should go. Remember when the real Zentralemaat Pilgrim shot himself after seeing Das Boot? Then imagine what would he have felt after seeing what you guys are doing here. One thing is pretending we're all Kaleuns commanding our sub, sinking merchants, and other thing is pretending we even have a Hitler-glorifying wife, which I honestly think adds absolutely NOTHING to SH3 realism. Please use your time in something more useful like scripting missions, or doing skins, or making new ship models, but please stop going so deep with the so called "realism" or "inmersion", I think we already feel "inmersed" just by commanding our ship and sinking the enemy.

Thanks for your time.

Again i reiterate - this mod has nothing to do with Hitler. In fact i have already scripted nearly 2 years worth of correspondences and not a single one of them ever once mentions Hitler or Nazis.

the sole purpose of this mod is to provide the player with a bit of history as to the sorts of things that happened on the home front.

in reading books about the U-Boat war... there is a very specific theme of a u-boat crewmen who KNEW his home town was being bombed around the clock all day every day by enemy bombers. and his only way of knowing whether his wife or girlfriend or parents etc were still alive was to receive a letter from them.

sometimes no letters would come for many weeks or months leaving the crewman to wonder if his wife and children were ok.

the purpose of this mod is to give "SH3 junkies" that specific level of immersion into an un-tapped vein of history.

please understand that thus far i have received no letters for inclusion into the mod which represented a glorification of Hitler or the Nazis - which is not and never was once considered to have anything to do with the purpose of the mod. most of the letters talk about children missing their fathers, or parents hiding in a bomb shelter, or "your missing how pretty the snow is come home for christmas" sort of things

as with all mods

"dont like it??? - dont download it"

if someone were to make a mod which turned all the ships and subs pink and they shot rainbow lazers at one another - i wouldnt like it... but i can almost promise you someone out there would... but the fact of the matter is - nothing requires me to download it. :up:

[martes86]

First of all, thanks for taking the time to answer.

Now, of course I am aware no one is forcing me to download this, I never said that I was being forced. My main concern is that "all this", in the global sense of referring to the subsimming community, becomes something that only a few here will end up liking as sort of a distorted reality, derelict because everyone else ended up hating what surrounds the subsimming world.

I've already heard word from real-life officers (and some members) that dislike the way we surround of community-stuff (from daily posts to member avatars) the whole thing, and that see it as an open offense to what the real deal represents. I can't imagine the shame put over us if we start stuffing areas where our own imagination should be (and has always been) more than enough. It's fun to use the machines, and even have some roleplay as the kaleuns vs the admiralty and all that... but how could we look at the eyes of the real men that fought that war as we "simulate" feelings in a product that isn't nowhere near actually being of such a deeply dramatic content?

I've read about an actually nice turn for the idea, that would be sort of a lobby (a bar if you wish) where other officers would get together and brag about their succeses or other happenings in the fronts.

About nazi glorification, well, I am aware that this might not be the final stuff, but still, it has worried me how it (or better said, "what") was written:

The new government of Herr Hitler seems to be well focused upon rebuilding a strong military, both Army and Navy. We hope the Reichstag will have the strength of will to provide the money needed to give you and your Kameraden the weapons and boats you need to win. Of your patriotism and courage we have no doubt.M

It concerns me that such mods, and their respective contents, will project an image of us that doesn't correspond with what and who we really are. Some U-Boot fans give the impresion of actually being charmed by the "goodness" of the Reich themselves, and their specific behaviours later mark us normal fans, making us look like if we all U-Boot (or german army in general for that matter) fans are just a bunch of neo-nazis. Some people I've met and that have known of my hobbies already thought I was some sort of neo-nazi or extreme right-wind, but I bet that if they saw this stuff, they'd probably call the police directly, or something like that. For me, it's not a matter of playing or not the mod, it's a matter of how the rest of the world will look upon us, as I bet on a grander scheme for subsims.
And even if you couldn't care less about what other unrelated people thought about you (I don't care either), you still need society to live, or one risks becoming isolated. It is my dream that one day we can all do this sort of stuff without having to hide it from the public (and girls, if one wants to marry at one time) and such, afraid that they'll think we're all demons or freaks that have never seen the light of day (some people already think that of net users anyways).

I hope I left all points understandable for anyone. :)

Cheers

[GoldenRivet]

if a quote like that were contained in any letter to be included in our mod - i have not seen it yet... The line you quoted was not from any official letter submitted to be part of the mod... it was intended as period gibberish used to demonstrate various styles of fonts to use with the mod.

however if it were submitted for inclusion into the mod, im certain that it would be illustrated into the story line in such a way so as to demonstrate how the german people had a large admiration for hitler that quickly turned to disgust with hitler over the course of a few years. - in that regard i would stand behind the submission of the letter.

i could discuss the reasoning behind doing this mod or not doing it to no end... so we should avoid getting tied up into lengthy discussion.

All i can say is that the mod will be completed to the strictest sense of historical accuracy while maintaining sensitivity toward the views of others and not glorifying Nazism.

Please understand that i have received dozens of messages of support for this mod from many people who feel it would be a fantastic immersive addition to SH3... while i value your opinion... thus far you have been the only person speaking against it... and i greatly appreciate your ability to do so respectfully. :up:

Please understand the most of the concept of the LFH mod will concentrate on letters from parents and girlfriends - mostly speaking of how you are missed and worried for, babies first steps, etc etc.

this is intended to be letters to a soldier doing his duty at the front... not a letter to a foaming at the mouth, sharp toothed ghestapo officer. ;)

[Sharkley]

I think if anything a mod such as this, handled correctly of course, could shed a very positive light on things. It could bring a new level of realism to this simulation and allow the players to view the crew as actual people and any vessels lost within this conflict containing actual people, all with dreams and hopes. Maybe no longer will they be charging in for death and destruction and perhaps, just perhaps a historical interest could be drummed up in a few who treat this simulation as a arcade game and they will learn just what a terrible conflict this was for all involved. My hope is this mod could provide a higher respect for those who served, simulating simple actions may not be enough but allowing the player to feel that any loss could be real and the effects it could have.

In closing I see both points, I am sure Ubisoft had to deal with many aspects when creating this simulation, I am sure if handled with respect a positive outcome can be had.

[GoldenRivet]

agreed :yeah:

[Archive1]

Since the comment from martes86 included a quote from the example I posted I suppose I should step in and respond.

I understand martes86 objections and they are proper and respectable. I also agree with Sharkley and GoldenRivet and they are also appropriate.

I think that we cannot change history by ignoring it and it cannot be refuted that at the beginning of the war the people of Germany were hopeful that Hitler would lead the country back into a position of power and respect following the debacle of WWI ,the heavy hand of the following Armistice and the depression that ensued. I believe early on they (especially a retired military man like the one I invent and quote) would hope the military would be well funded and supported by the new Chancellor and the Reichstag so their serving men and this writer's son would have appropriate equipment and thus be at less risk. But circumstance would change that opinion of Hitler and his henchmen and future letters would reflect increasing disgust and disillusionment - at least to the degree permitted by censorship.

It was and would not be my intent to glorify the Nazi regime - my father fought in that war.

At the same time the UBoat service was early on, the least Nazi-infiltrated and influenced of the services. That also changed, alas, as the mortality rates increased and replacements were of lower quality. I believe any letters should reflect the events as they took place - one set of censors working for the Gestapo was enough.
Archive1

[martes86]

if a quote like that were contained in any letter to be included in our mod - i have not seen it yet... The line you quoted was not from any official letter submitted to be part of the mod... it was intended as period gibberish used to demonstrate various styles of fonts to use with the mod.

Well, I realised I made a mistake in not taking all the facts, and seeing the part I quoted sort of made me stand guard. I guess we should wait for finalized content to judge what's in it. I still would like to ask for caution when publishing such excerpts of written literature in the forums, as they can lead to confusion that doesn't benefit the view society (and I'd say, even developers) get of us.


All i can say is that the mod will be completed to the strictest sense of historical accuracy while maintaining sensitivity toward the views of others and not glorifying Nazism.

As I said before, I'll wait to have the final materials, so these words are enough for me. :)


Please understand that i have received dozens of messages of support for this mod from many people who feel it would be a fantastic immersive addition to SH3... while i value your opinion... thus far you have been the only person speaking against it... and i greatly appreciate your ability to do so respectfully. :up:

And so I thank you for positively taking my concerns. Constructive criticism benefits everyone, and makes the communities go forward, specially if they are heard as has been the case. No bad feelings! :rock:

Cheers :salute:

[Sharkley]

martes86, Archive1, GoldenRivet you've all acted like true gentlemen and should be applauded, far to many times people's views lead to disputes and hurt feelings. I am happy to say this is not the case here, I look forward to continuing this project under the guidelines created here.
:salute:

[Archive1]

G'Rivet and Sharkley: the Mod Workshop link seems to be broken...at least I cannot log on to it. Am away from the US from 10 May thru 20 May. But may (may) be able to connect to the web.

[ivank]

I am very interested in how you are doing this, as this would be really nice as an extra add-on for my The Surface Warfare Super-Mod! If you would not mine PMing or emailing me info on how this is being done, that would be great.

[Archive1]

Back to the forum and wonder what is going on with this project. Still cannot log onto the Mod workshop. Is the thread and project dead?

[Laufen zum Ziel]

martes86, Archive1, GoldenRivet you've all acted like true gentlemen and should be applauded, far to many times people's views lead to disputes and hurt feelings. I am happy to say this is not the case here, I look forward to continuing this project under the guidelines created here.
:salute:
Well said.

[Archive1]

Laufen: Well, yes, but it looks like the whole project has collapsed. I have forwarded a year's worth of 'letters' but the Mod Workshop link is no longer working and there is nothing here in the forum to indicate that the project is still 'alive'.
I would guess that people who do not write in a professional way found out that it takes a great deal of effort and discipline to produce a product that is worth reading.
Ah Well.

[Laufen zum Ziel]

Sad. JS always turns out quality work and I was looking forward to this project.

[GoldenRivet]

I have an entire campaign worth of letters, and i have been submitted a couple of others from modders.

the setback for myself early in the project was - a vehicle fire in my driveway which had also set my home on fire and the repairs which followed for nearly a month's time.

the second problem the team faced is that the entire communication system of the project went down and has been inaccessible to us for a couple of months now.

I would like to see the project move forward, however i have only received 2 serious attempts at getting an entire campaign of letters together.

the work from the individuals who contributed is greatly appreciated, however we cannot release a respectable mod with only 3 full campaigns of letters. otherwise the player would live the same three "story lines" over and over and over again and it would be far too repetitive.

frankly im not sure where to go from here and im fairly disappointed in where this has gone from a logistics standpoint, however i am proud of those who contributed... unfortunately - so far it has not been enough to see the project through to any sort of respectable conclusion.

Im open to discussion or ideas

[Archive1]

GR: Good to hear from you and sorry to hear about the home problems. Reality always trumps virtuality.

One additional problem now is that (at least in the northern hemisphere) summer is here and lots of folks are going to be occupied with family vacations, outside yard chores, other summer activities and sitting down to write some stuff for a project (unless it's professionally based) is not going to have a very high priority. Although I did send you a full career's worth of material, I find myself in this category: just too much to do right now.

I also really do believe that many people who do not write either professionally or semi-pro, just find the discipline and creative requirements more difficult than they expect - they start with very sincere good intentions and then bog down, time goes by and then the whole thing just comes apart. Rather like that novel you started 10 years ago and always intended to finish, but....

Clearly only three careers of material is just not enough.

Couple of thoughts:
1. have people just write 6 months of material...I'd guess many careers don't last that long (or make it 12, but not 4 years). The amount can always be expanded, but it will not be so intimidating to commit to a smaller requirement;
2. put a temp 'hold' on the project keeping in mind a small corps of contributors, and restart it in the fall - maybe a new version of SH will arrive later in the year anyway.

Welcome back. Hope the house is put together or well on the way to recovery.
Archive1

[GoldenRivet]

2. put a temp 'hold' on the project keeping in mind a small corps of contributors, and restart it in the fall - maybe a new version of SH will arrive later in the year anyway.

this is my intention.

hope it pans out! but i am not going to hold my breath. reading the story lines from you and a couple of others i am very impressed and this could be a HUGE immersion mod.

we will just have to wait and see.

for now i think it is pretty well tabled until September or later.

[Herz]

Looking forward to this if you guys are able to overcome the mentioned problems.

[Archive1]

GR:
Sounds good. Let's try to personally set up some 'tickle file' that will alert us to revisit the project in late August (?) to get started again. Keep in mind that JScones (with the help of several others) has produced several replicas of documents for commanders that he thought he might integrate with this project - at least that's my interpretation of some of his comments. Look at his "Request for assistance from someone good on graphics." forum thread, down a ways, around page 52 or 53. It may turn out (alas) that there is just not a large enough stable of writers to put out enough product to make it work, but another pass may produce a different outcome. We'll see.

Herz: Is that a self portrait of you that accompanies your message? Lookin' good! "Take her down, Chief!"

[johan_d]

Interresting idea, and would be indeed help your character imagination.

[Archive1]

johan_d: Don't know if you are a writer (in English or German) or not. If you are we can use you for this project. Sign in again later in the summer and we can see where this goes.

[Archive1]

Golden Rivet:
Check your pm box, please. I sent you a followup to the last message regarding a 'restart' of this project in the fall. Do we go forward or shut it down?
-=Archive1=-

[Myxale]

Even though I used to joke that this mod is too close to RL,:O: I'm glad to see it commin' along!

We're thankful for every addition to SH3:salute:

[Will-Rommel]

I'd love to use this mod. Keep going please ! :yep:

[Rapt0r56]

Outstanding Work, lookig forward to it :up:

[Wildhawke11]

This would be a superb mod . Having said that depending how long it takes lets not forget Sh5 is due to be made and as its in the Atlantic, if it lives up to expectations of course. I would make a calculated guess at least two thirds of us is my guess to use the new SH5. As i said just a thought guys.

[Nostromo]

Really hope this gets going again, it sounds fantastic :)

[bojan811]

This is an epical idea.
I would like to help but mu english sucks.
:oops:

I know you will do a good job with out me.

Can wait to try it out.

Cheers felas.

[JScones]

Just FYI there now definitely won't be another SH3Cmdr release, so it can no longer be considered as the platform for this initiative. Sorry guys, but near 6 months have now passed since this project was announced and with SH5 around the corner, I can't justify further updates to SH3Cmdr.

[Aleksandar the Great]

http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/8851/stiglaposta.jpg

[GoldenRivet]

Just FYI there now definitely won't be another SH3Cmdr release, so it can no longer be considered as the platform for this initiative. Sorry guys, but near 6 months have now passed since this project was announced and with SH5 around the corner, I can't justify further updates to SH3Cmdr.

This is more or less the same information i have shared with those who have PMed me about the project.

I would love to see it completed, however we had too many RL issues early in the year, and some communication issues to overcome as well.

the content i received from the team members for the mod was great! I'm sure you would have all really loved it.

however, depending on what happens with SHV, I am open to the idea of releasing this as a mod pack for SHV. but it was barely enough content to serve as a proof of concept. realistically, this mod could take many months to develop if we had at least a dozen volunteers.

JSCONES? would you plan to release an SHV Commander? :06:

or is it too early to say?

[JScones]

JSCONES? would you plan to release an SHV Commander? :06:

or is it too early to say?
If it's needed, then yeah, I've stuck up my hand to volunteer. More info here... http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=155569

I've already given it some thought...don't expect an SH3Cmdr clone for SH5... ;) Whatever I develop for SH5 will be from the ground up, and hopefully with assistance/input from other resident developers. To that end, I'd love to see a few names sharing the credit for "SH5Cmdr".

[Laufen zum Ziel]

If it's needed, then yeah, I've stuck up my hand to volunteer. More info here... http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=155569

I've already given it some thought...don't expect an SH3Cmdr clone for SH5... ;) Whatever I develop for SH5 will be from the ground up, and hopefully with assistance/input from other resident developers. To that end, I'd love to see a few names sharing the credit for "SH5Cmdr".

JS,

Thank you for your past projects & thank you for any thing you can do for SH5 in the future.