AoB finder wheel

[Sea Hawk]

I’m new to the simulation.
Got it 2 wks ago, I’ve got board of the easy settings and last night scored a couple of kills at reality over 70%.

These are excellent:-
The Hunt: An illustrated example of how to sink a ship (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88961)
Wazoo's Manual Charting & Targeting Tutorial (http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/)
Silent Hunter III Community Manual (http://mysh3.info/shiii)

I would love to try to the AoB finder wheel, but I've clicked on as many links as I can find and none of them work.

Can someone point me in the right direction please?

[makman94]

I’m new to the simulation.
Got it 2 wks ago, I’ve got board of the easy settings and last night scored a couple of kills at reality over 70%.

These are excellent:-
The Hunt: An illustrated example of how to sink a ship (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88961)
Wazoo's Manual Charting & Targeting Tutorial (http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/)
Silent Hunter III Community Manual (http://mysh3.info/shiii)

I would love to try to the AoB finder wheel, but I've clicked on as many links as I can find and none of them work.

Can someone point me in the right direction please?

hello Sea Hawk,
you will find it here : http://hosted.filefront.com/joegrundman/

bye

[Puster Bill]

Might I suggest you make yourself one of these:

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/5618/dsc00014um0.jpg
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5185/dsc00013ym5.jpg

You can find the files necessary to build it in this thread:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=114351

You can find an *EXCELLENT* set of instructions, with examples, in this thread:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=126824

I swear by my angriffscheibe.

[klh]

I also never leave port without my Angriffsscheibe!

[Contact]

So it's easy to calculate AOB when you see ship icons on the map. I wonder how to calculate it without ship icons present ? :hmmm:

This also concerns in calculating target speed using 3.15 min tactic :\

[kranz]

So it's easy to calculate AOB when you see ship icons on the map. I wonder how to calculate it without ship icons present ? :hmmm:

what do you mean? I just mark first bearing contact, wait 3.15, mark 2nd on the nav map, draw a line to get course, I check my wheel and change course to get sth near AOB 90, then you calculate AOB once again before shot. I play at 100% on NYGM

[Contact]

what do you mean? I just mark first bearing contact, wait 3.15, mark 2nd on the nav map, draw a line to get course, I check my wheel and change course to get sth near AOB 90, then you calculate AOB once again before shot. I play at 100% on NYGM

In calculating speed you measure distance which you get BEFORE AND AFTER 3.15 min ant multiply it by ten. The thing is you see a ship icon on the map which helps you to do the markings. My point of question was how would you calculate the speed or AOB without seeing ship icons on the navigation map ?

[kranz]

I have Bearing Overlay 3.0. I raise the scope, I see the target-you can either use the stadimeter or mast height to get the range. E.g- small merchant 4500 meters, bearing-50 deg. You start the stopwatch and immediately go to navi map. You zoom enough to get nice precission and draw a like from the center of you sub to 4500 meters using Be.Overlay markings. Then you wait 3.15 and do the same. Now you have to connect those lines, I mean those "points" with a third line which gives you target course. That's the way how I do it.:yeah:

[Contact]

I have Bearing Overlay 3.0. I raise the scope, I see the target-you can either use the stadimeter or mast height to get the range. E.g- small merchant 4500 meters, bearing-50 deg. You start the stopwatch and immediately go to navi map. You zoom enough to get nice precission and draw a like from the center of you sub to 4500 meters using Be.Overlay markings. Then you wait 3.15 and do the same. Now you have to connect those lines, I mean those "points" with a third like which gives you target course. That's the way how I do it.:yeah:

So does that bearing overlay disables ship icons on the map ?

I've found a thread about it here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/archive/index.php/t-79912.html

but it is quite old already ?

[kranz]

So does that bearing overlay disables ship icons on the map ?

I've found a thread about it here: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/archive/index.php/t-79912.html

but it is quite old already ?

I guess not though I have never played with icons ON. Bearing overlay is a TGA file with a very detailed series of circles giving 0-360 deg. divisions. Without B.O you wouldn't be able to mark bearing like 33, 247, etc. When I launch the game later on I will take some ss and post it here.

and, yes, Bearing Overlay is old but I guess there is nothing better.

[Contact]

I guess not though I have never played with icons ON. Bearing overlay is a TGA file with a very detailed series of circles giving 0-360 deg. divisions. Without B.O you wouldn't be able to mark bearing like 33, 247, etc. When I launch the game later on I will take some ss and post it here.

and, yes, Bearing Overlay is old but I guess there is nothing better.

Nice nice.. I want to give a try on this. Will I find this B.O. file in our download section ? Aaand how should I make ship icons dissapear from my nav map ?

Danke :up:

[kranz]

Nice nice.. I want to give a try on this. Will I find this B.O. file in our download section ? Aaand how should I make ship icons dissapear from my nav map ?

Danke :up:

Dunno about dl section but if you don't find it PM me with your e-mail, I will send you the file.(it's quite small) To disable icons you have to turn off proper option in Realism settings.

[XLjedi]

...how should I make ship icons dissapear from my nav map ?

In the game difficulty/realism settings just remove the checkmark from "Map Updates On" presumably, you'll be playing at 100%.

[Contact]

In the game difficulty/realism settings just remove the checkmark from "Map Updates On" presumably, you'll be playing at 100%.

Thanks I was not sure what this option does and since it does not have an impact on realism I always left it on.

Left to get bearing overlay 3.0.

I already feel small flames rising in my eyes from a thought I will get back on the hunt in a better shape :arrgh!:

[XLjedi]

Thanks I was not sure what this option does and since it does not have an impact on realism I always left it on.

Left to get bearing overlay 3.0.

I already feel small flames rising in my eyes from a thought I will get back on the hunt in a better shape :arrgh!:

It only has no impact on realism if you have GWX installed. I never thought that it was a particularly good idea to set it that way because I couldn't tell when someone said they play GWX at 100% if they meant they played with map updates on/off... but it is, what it is.

[Contact]

It only has no impact on realism if you have GWX installed. I never thought that it was a particularly good idea to set it that way because I couldn't tell when someone said they play GWX at 100% if they meant they played with map updates on/off... but it is, what it is.

True..

[Contact]

Ok so I already tried aiming without ships icon in torpedo tutorial and I made 2/2 direct hits. I just wish I had more accurate ruler to measure the distance to target.

[Sea Hawk]

Might I suggest you make yourself one of these:

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/5618/dsc00014um0.jpg
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5185/dsc00013ym5.jpg

You can find the files necessary to build it in this thread:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=114351

You can find an *EXCELLENT* set of instructions, with examples, in this thread:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=126824

I swear by my angriffscheibe.

This looks fantastic
I will make one tonight

[Contact]

Maybe I could use it in-game. Just not sure.. Do I need to use OLC GUI for that ? :hmmm:

I'm focused on one thing now. I need to figure out how to faithfully measure the distance to target in any weather while not using ship icons. Getting AOB and speed woun't be a problem I guess.

[Sailor Steve]

Two mods give you the whiz-wheel ingame: OLC-GUI and U-Jagd Tools. U-Jagd is the older and simpler mod; it gives you the tools to do the job. OLC-GUI adds on that and gives you a completely new screen to work with.

Either one is great to use for manual targetting.

[Contact]

Okay. I decided to try U-Jagd tool first.

This is the link: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=665816&postcount=1

Will it be compatible with GWX 3.0 ?

[Sailor Steve]

Should be, as it adds tools to the periscope and UZO stations and not much else. I used it with GWX 2.1 with no problems. Haven't put it on 3.0 simply because I have so little time to play manual targetting has become something of a bugbear for me.

[Contact]

Dunno about dl section but if you don't find it PM me with your e-mail, I will send you the file.(it's quite small) To disable icons you have to turn off proper option in Realism settings.


Tried this tool and I like it :yeah:

Just intallation could be JSGME compatible :)

One more question I would still like to ask.

for example original NSS_Uboat2A_shp.tga is 1.16 MB while tweaked NSS_Uboat2A_shp.tga is 7.21 MB ?

Why is such big difference here if it only makes Bearing tool look bigger on nav map ?

Thank You

[Contact]

Should be, as it adds tools to the periscope and UZO stations and not much else. I used it with GWX 2.1 with no problems. Haven't put it on 3.0 simply because I have so little time to play manual targetting has become something of a bugbear for me.

Excelent, could you pinpoint me which one of these i should download: http://hosted.filefront.com/joegrundman/ since there is at least two compatible with GWX ?

[Puster Bill]

This looks fantastic
I will make one tonight

Great! The in-game versions work well also, and some people swear by them, but personally I prefer something solid in my hand.

You could also use a generic slide rule. I used both a linear slide rule and a circular one before Hitman gave us this great whiz-wheel. The only difference with using a regular slide rule is you have to do one extra step to convert meters per second to knots.

[UberTorpedo]

Here's an interesting whiz wheel that only uses three bearings (at equal time intervals) to calculate the angle-on-bow. Speed and range are not involved.

http://files.filefront.com/3BearingAOBfinderpdf/;13179092;/fileinfo.html

cheers

[Pisces]

Here's an interesting whiz wheel that only uses three bearings (at equal time intervals) to calculate the angle-on-bow. Speed and range are not involved.

http://files.filefront.com/3BearingAOBfinderpdf/;13179092;/fileinfo.html

cheersThanks UberTorpedo. (Since I made it) It is an AOB-finder tool. Though it's not exactly what the OP was looking for. He is looking for something that works like the bearing/course/aob side of the Attackdisk. (In the PaulWasserman link the "Etchasketch’s AoB finder wheel" is mentioned, which does that)

But please let that not inhibbit somebody to try it out. Given enough time it is very accurate.

[Otto Heinzmeir]

Here's an interesting whiz wheel that only uses three bearings (at equal time intervals) to calculate the angle-on-bow. Speed and range are not involved.

http://files.filefront.com/3BearingAOBfinderpdf/;13179092;/fileinfo.html

cheers

So you can get AOB without range and speed. But don't you still need those to enter into the TDC? Are you able to get speed and range after you have the 3 bearings?

See I don't get this whole wheel. People make it sound like you can get the AOB in 10 seconds and then just fire with no regard for target speed or range. Even if its s shortcut to get AOB, don't you still need 2 or 3 timed plots to get speed.

I am talking about a game with no nav updates so you don't have range by looking at ship icons.

[Hitman]

Yes it only gets you the AOB, but between two observations you can use the fixed wire method (A method used n german U-Boats of WW1 and WW2 in certain situations) to get speed. With those two values (AOB and speed), as long as you shoot at a zero Gyro Angle, distance won't matter. :shucks:

[Contact]

I feel like I'm using quite "ancient" way to measure distance, speed, AOB.
Without any whiz-wheel so far.

All I do is: lock the target with attack periscope at dead stop. ID the ship. Measure the distance with periscope, while keeping in mind its bearing on my periscope I mark the location of the ship on nav map. Letting the clock go for 3.15 min. Then the same procedure again measure distance, mark the target on nav map. When I already got two marks I draw a line through them to get a course and resolve AOB from last mark position on the map. I measure distance between those two marks I made, multiply it by ten and I get the speed. All whats left to do is to enter values to TDC and fire.

Disadvantages: when in heavy seas it is PITA to get accurate distance with periscope.

[Contact]

I have Bearing Overlay 3.0. I raise the scope, I see the target-you can either use the stadimeter or mast height to get the range. E.g- small merchant 4500 meters, bearing-50 deg. You start the stopwatch and immediately go to navi map. You zoom enough to get nice precission and draw a like from the center of you sub to 4500 meters using Be.Overlay markings. Then you wait 3.15 and do the same. Now you have to connect those lines, I mean those "points" with a third line which gives you target course. That's the way how I do it.:yeah:

Hey I just noticed this: http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2865/missmatch.th.jpg (http://img7.imageshack.us/my.php?image=missmatch.jpg)

why it's such huge missmatch between overlay and a ruler ?!

[Pisces]

So you can get AOB without range and speed. But don't you still need those to enter into the TDC? Are you able to get speed and range after you have the 3 bearings?

See I don't get this whole wheel. People make it sound like you can get the AOB in 10 seconds and then just fire with no regard for target speed or range. Even if its s shortcut to get AOB, don't you still need 2 or 3 timed plots to get speed.

I am talking about a game with no nav updates so you don't have range by looking at ship icons.That tool I made definately DOESN'T allow a 10 seconds AOB fix. That can only be done by visual estimation, or maybe using the OLC Gui/U-jagd attack-periscope wheel. My tool takes quite alot of time to allow the bearing to move. Granted, the closer you are, the quicker it goes. But that also means things can get hecktic when you need to fire. I think it's better to use it to develop target course first. (and do the fixed wire method Hitman says in the meantime, IF the target is visual) Then use that to move ahead of the target at top speed.

If the target is still outside of visual range, I explain in this post (a bit, but in all honesty MittelWaechter made the image) how one can determine a (rough) figure for his speed:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1023518&postcount=26

[Hitman]

All I do is: lock the target with attack periscope at dead stop. ID the ship. Measure the distance with periscope, while keeping in mind its bearing on my periscope I mark the location of the ship on nav map. Letting the clock go for 3.15 min. Then the same procedure again measure distance, mark the target on nav map. When I already got two marks I draw a line through them to get a course and resolve AOB from last mark position on the map. I measure distance between those two marks I made, multiply it by ten and I get the speed. All whats left to do is to enter values to TDC and fire.


The problem is that for that to work you need a superb accurancy in the distance reading in BOTH measurements. If you can ID the ship positively and conditions permit a good measurement, of course you will get a decent solution. But the thing is, those parameters hardly ever happened in real life, nor in the game. Many times you have moderate seas that difficult the reading, or you identify wrong the target, or whatever. Therefore in real life same as in the game, the best thing is to do several measurements of distance and bearing and then average the results by drawing a line that goes through the center of them. That way you minimize errors, delays in the measurement (You can't always measure exactly when the clock hits the 3:15 point) and such.

[Contact]

True.. So I still in search for the best solution.

I need that U-jagd tool to try for GWX 3.0.

Downloading Pisce's Hydrophone Hunt tutorials now, will see what can I master of it

[kranz]

Hey I just noticed this: http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2865/missmatch.th.jpg (http://img7.imageshack.us/my.php?image=missmatch.jpg)

why it's such huge missmatch between overlay and a ruler ?!

because the scale of the bearing overlay tool is adjusted to ONLY ONE scale zoom position. So-if you pressed +/- button a few times you would find a matching scale-but only to one zoom value. This tool should be used only to get accurate bearing NOT range-only the ruler tool of org. SH3 is getting adjusted to zoom scale-no matter of what zoom your are you will always get good range-1000, 2000, 2350 or any distance.

[makman94]

because the scale of the bearing overlay tool is adjusted to ONLY ONE scale zoom position. So-if you pressed +/- button a few times you would find a matching scale-but only to one zoom value. This tool should be used only to get accurate bearing NOT range-only the ruler tool of org. SH3 is getting adjusted to zoom scale-no matter of what zoom your are you will always get good range-1000, 2000, 2350 or any distance.

no Kranz ! the scale in Pato's image is in miles and the ruler is counting meters . (but for some reason ,that only Pato knows, he didn't consider that 1ml=1.852 km. he made his scale taking 1 ml = 1.55 km)

bye

[makman94]

Thanks UberTorpedo. (Since I made it) It is an AOB-finder tool. Though it's not exactly what the OP was looking for. He is looking for something that works like the bearing/course/aob side of the Attackdisk. (In the PaulWasserman link the "Etchasketch’s AoB finder wheel" is mentioned, which does that)

But please let that not inhibbit somebody to try it out. Given enough time it is very accurate.

Pisces, your tool is very good ! (need some tiny -tiny fixes at the scales , i don't know what formula you used to create the scales but here is what i used to check them : tan(aob)=sinA/(B-cosA) , where A=|b3-b1| and B=sin|b3-b2|/sin|b2-b1| )

congratulations !

[UberTorpedo]

Did someone mention Etchasketch’s AoB finder wheel (http://files.filefront.com/AOB+Wheel+Wazoo+Tutorialzip/;13588020;/fileinfo.html)?

By the way, good job on your "3-Bearing AOB Finder" wheel, Pisces:up:

cheers

[kranz]

no Kranz ! the scale in Pato's image is in miles and the ruler is counting meters . (but for some reason ,that only Pato knows, he didn't consider that 1ml=1.852 km. he made his scale taking 1 ml = 1.55 km)

bye

according to what you say you should be always behind/ahead the difference between 1.852 and 1.55 so about 300 meters which is not true due to scale problem which I mentioned to be the most important reason why you shouldn't use bearing overlay to get range. Its scale works only for bearings, no matter where the mistake is.

[Pisces]

Pisces, your tool is very good ! (need some tiny -tiny fixes at the scales , i don't know what formula you used to create the scales but here is what i used to check them : tan(aob)=sinA/(B-cosA) , where A=|b3-b1| and B=sin|b3-b2|/sin|b2-b1| )

congratulations !There's no sine formula in there. It's:

1/tan(AOB1) = 1/tan(B2-B1) - 2/tan(B3-B1)

or

cotangent(AOB1)= cotangent(B2-B1) - 2* cotangent(B3-B1)

I know for sure the formula is correct. But please don't ask for the derivation. :damn:

Oh well, it's in this pdf (page 3-4): http://files.filefront.com/NOE+Bearings+Only+TMApdf/;9273917;/fileinfo.html

[makman94]

There's no sine formula in there. It's:

1/tan(AOB1) = 1/tan(B2-B1) - 2/tan(B3-B1)

or

cotangent(AOB1)= cotangent(B2-B1) - 2* cotangent(B3-B1)

I know for sure the formula is correct.

i didn't say that your formula was wrong Pisces ! in fact ,my formula and yours is exactly the same thing ! (in trigonometry you can change from tangments to sines or coses but i bet you know that)
when i said that need tiny-tiny fixes i meant that in some cases the tools 'loose' 1-2 degrees.maybe is a false at printing.
of course this will never be noticable in the game.for that is very good.
i mentioned it only for the tool itself...you know to be....perfect!
bye

[makman94]

according to what you say you should be always behind/ahead the difference between 1.852 and 1.55 so about 300 meters which is not true due to scale problem which I mentioned to be the most important reason why you shouldn't use bearing overlay to get range. Its scale works only for bearings, no matter where the mistake is.

no Kranz,you still don't get it . you can use (if you want) the Pato's scale at any zoom.i said that what you see in scale is in miles,so when the target is at 1000 in pato's scale then the distance (in meters) is 1000 x 1.55 = 1550 m and this is what the ruler shows

here is the Pato's scale in meters:

http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh372/makman94/patometers.jpg

[Contact]

So I need that tool in kilometers then.

I think kranz was pointing to the idea that this overlay tool is still good for marking bearing of the target on the nav map. The sad point of it: it is in miles and ain't helping to get more accurate range to target.

[Pisces]

i didn't say that your formula was wrong Pisces ! in fact ,my formula and yours is exactly the same thing ! (in trigonometry you can change from tangments to sines or coses but i bet you know that)
when i said that need tiny-tiny fixes i meant that in some cases the tools 'loose' 1-2 degrees.maybe is a false at printing.
of course this will never be noticable in the game.for that is very good.
i mentioned it only for the tool itself...you know to be....perfect!
byeYou are right. Both formulas match after a bit of a sine/cosine/tangent juggling act. Hadn't done that yet until now. (note to self: pen on paper proofs perfectness)

Tell me about those imperfect marks please. I thought I had all of them fixed. Correct alignment of the centers of the disks is very important if you want the marks to line up.

[Pisces]

So I need that tool in kilometers then.

I think kranz was pointing to the idea that this overlay tool is still good for marking bearing of the target on the nav map. The sad point of it: it is in miles and ain't helping to get more accurate range to target.Imho, plotting within 1.5 km is too short anyway. Maybe you can find a zoom level which makes a line of 15 km match with the 1.5 ring. Or you size up the image to make it that way with a graphics editing program.

[makman94]

gentlemen, pato's image is deadly acurate in EVERY zoom level ! in fact, more acurate CAN'T be ! it is working in EVERY ZOOM LEVEL ! all you have to do is to change miles to meters.
for example ,you see a ship at 1200 in pato's scale then the deadly acurate distance to target(in meters) is 1200x1.55=1860m...so simple!
you see it at 1250 in pato's scale then the deadly acurate distance to target(in meters) is 1250x1.55=1937.5m
you see a ship at 3000 (in pato's) then distance (in meters) is 3000x1.55=4650m

[GinoC]

no Kranz,you still don't get it . you can use (if you want) the Pato's scale at any zoom.i said that what you see in scale is in miles,so when the target is at 1000 in pato's scale then the distance (in meters) is 1000 x 1.55 = 1550 m and this is what the ruler shows


I just installed Pato's brg overlay and noticed the same discrepancy. Gott in himmel, why would he put it in miles? And not even the correct conversion for statute or nautical miles. That being said, I would prefer to work in NM, but I guess that's not the way the crazy Germans did things. ;)