SH3 Commander Idea

[GoldenRivet]

Could SH3 commander be modified to include a function of "letters from home"

what i mean is.. we get pop ups in SH3 Commander detailing transferrs and reassignments... could we not also get a pop up or perhaps an option to check mail?

perhaps a short letter or a cable from parents or from the girlfriend?

the letters could contain more and more distressing news about air raids etc as the war rages onward to later years. eventually the letters might not come, or they might come from a distant relative informing you that your family has died in a great air raid, or that your family has evacuated the city and has not been seen nor heard from in some time

eventually the letter could be replaced by a message that "telegraph wires are down, no messages are getting through" or "regrettably, the convoy containing your mail has been sunk."

something to really put the pity of the war into perspective

[Sailor Steve]

Probably could.

Good luck talking JScones into it.

[Jimbuna]

You getting homesick already :DL

[GoldenRivet]

Probably could.

Good luck talking JScones into it.

Why is that?

[von Kinderei]

I love that idea ...

Would sure make things more emmersive huh :up:

[andym]

It could make for some very interesting and comical downloads!

Liebe Adolf,the house had been bombed i am now living with with chap called Himmler,fuuny bloke,seems to know all about chickens.BTW your Mum wants to know if she can cash in your savings just in ceas you dont come back.

Liebe Annelise,

[Sailor Steve]

Why is that?
Because he announce a very long time ago that he was done working on Commander. He only agreed to 3.2 because he liked some of IABL's ideas. The likelihood of him doing it again is fairly low.

You can try, though.:sunny:

[Laufen zum Ziel]

Because he announce a very long time ago that he was done working on Commander. He only agreed to 3.2 because he liked some of IABL's ideas. The likelihood of him doing it again is fairly low.

Too bad. He has done some really great stuff & I don't think SHIII would be the same without his work. Wish him the best in his journey through life.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii113/laufen345/saluteofficerjs9.gif To you JS.

[TheDudTorpedo]

Because he announce a very long time ago that he was done working on Commander. He only agreed to 3.2 because he liked some of IABL's ideas. The likelihood of him doing it again is fairly low.

You can try, though.:sunny:

Hi Steve,

Would Jscones ever consider leaving the SH3 Commander code to a trusted SUBSIM member/confidant to continue his good legacy? It would be great to see some of the ideas raised here incorporated into Commander in the future :)

Regards,
Dud

[irish1958]

There is a mod in development which could do this.

[Sailor Steve]

Hi Steve,

Would Jscones ever consider leaving the SH3 Commander code to a trusted SUBSIM member/confidant to continue his good legacy? It would be great to see some of the ideas raised here incorporated into Commander in the future :)

Regards,
Dud
That has an even lower chance of happening. Jaesen is very protective of his work, and I doubt he would ever release the codes to anyone else.

As Irish1958 says, there have been others who talked of doing something similar for SH4, but so far talk is all we've seen. I'm not denigrating their ability to do it; they just have other things tying up their time for the present.

[TheDudTorpedo]

Fair enough, thanks Steve. :salute:

[JScones]

Probably could.

Good luck talking JScones into it.
Actually, fundamentally I don't have a problem with the idea. For me it's less than 10 lines of code (it would take longer to pack and distribute the end product). But my part's easy.

So let's think about it for a minute.

The people most likely to write to a Kaleun would be their parents, their wife and/or their girlfriend.

Remembering that the feature has to cover all Kaleuns across all careers, all possibilities have to be catered for. One of your Kaleuns may be married, so gets wifey letters, one may be single so gets girlfriend letters, one may get both.

So, considering a possibility of one letter per sender per month, there needs to be at least 210 letter variations (70 months x 3).

Now when I say per month, I mean on average. Unexpected delays will reduce the number of letters received per month...true, but a delay is just a delay, meaning that perhaps instead of one letter per month the Kaleun may get 3 letters per quarter instead.

Ship sunk so the letter didn't get through? Doesn't matter, the letter(s) was written and were it not for a random event the letter(s) would have made it (as far as SH3Cmdr would be concerned).

Now this doesn't mean that the Kaleun will get one/two/three letters every month (there would be random elements at play that ensured this didn't happen), it just means that they could get one/two/three letter per month.

But this lack of variation would see the novelty of the feature wear off very quickly, for unlike real life, you will be reliving the same months/years over and over again through different careers. So, at least one more variation of each letter would be required, so now we're looking at 420 unique letter variations. And even this is still limited because after two careers you'll start to see the same letters again.

So we've now (kinda) got parents, wives and/or girlfriends covered, what about everyone else? I'm sure Kaleuns received letters from other people - other relatives (uncles, sisters etc), friends serving in other arms of the Wehrmacht etc. So to avoid the letter always being from Mommy or Liebe, variations covering these "others" also need to be drafted. Let's say the potential for one "other" letter per month (yes, it will most likely be less, but remember the feature covers all your Kaleuns, not just one). And even this still assumes that every Kaleun has living parents (at some point at least).

We have now identified 490 potential letter variations minimum. So, we now see that my effort is nothing compared to GoldenRivet's, or whoever volunteers to write all these letter variations. ;)

There is a mod in development which could do this.Is this related to your medic idea?

[Otto Heinzmeir]

What do you need/. 492? I'll do one. If everybody does 1 or two we will be done in a week. How does one write to a generic Kaleun, hmm, for now I will call him Fritz.

Dearest Fritz,
I feel so horrible. While you were out to see, I had an affair with Wilhelm from across the street. I feel so awful, its just that I got so terribly lonely while you were at sea. I'm beside myself with anguish. Of course I didn't mean for it to happen. He was my old sweet heart from school days. We have broken it off and I hope you can forgive me.
Love,
Francesca

If you want a happier one I can try again.

Dear Gunter,
While you are on your fantastic mission to save the Fatherland, little Alfred fell off the backyard swing and bruised his elbow. He cried something awful. We took him to see the doctor but everything checked out alright. Just some scrapes and nothing broken. What a relief! Mum and I are very anxious about your adventures. Do you get to send mail at sea. If so please let us know how you are getting on. From everything we here the war should be over very soon. The radio constantly crackles with news of great victories by land, air and sea. Everyone here says hello. We all miss you dearly.
Your loving wife,
Heidi

[JScones]

490 is minimum. And that number just ensures a letter is received; it doesn't ensure a meaningful letter is received in an ongoing storyline.

To maintain a "story", you need LOTS more. I mean, you need to maintain an ongoing storyline for each scenario (ie wifey announces she's pregnant...9 months later wifey gives birth etc all has to be "remembered").

For example, with the minimum of 490 letters, you might get a letter this month saying "Dear love, You're dumped" and next month you might get one saying "Dear love, How I can't wait to see you next" and one the following month saying "This is to inform you that your wife died three months ago". Certainly nothing connected.

So, to make the feature worthwhile, someone would need to create many ongoing storylines that essentially have a list of pre-prepared and dated letters that make up the ongoing story.

This would mean that when the player starts a new career, SH3Cmdr would select a pre-prepared story and play it out throughout the life of the career (with certain random elements built in of course). So, for example, you start a new career today and SH3Cmdr picks the storyline that sees you married with three girls and with a father who writes often. Next career sees you as a loner with no living family or partner and only letters from your sister. And so on. SH3Cmdr kinda does this now in relation to generating your career history (ie post war summaries). For reference SH3Cmdr includes 54 post career variations and 51 post war variations. So imagine creating 50 storylines that must cover the entire war. Just one letter per month would mean 3500 letter variations need to be created.

In the end, it's very easy to generate any random letters from home; it's not as easy though to make it immersive and meaningful in the context of an ongoing life.

Oh, and don't forget the German and French translations. ;)

[nikbear]

Sorry to be O/T but,Mr JScones would it be possible to have the remove deck gun feature actually benefit the U-boat with speed?:06:As you know as it gets to 42/43' the chances of using the deck gun are few and far between so alot of U-boats had them removed to gain a little extra underwater speed,I think the figure mentioned in a book I read said it was between 1 to 1.5 Knots,Was wondering if that could be modeled in game via the 'remove' function in SH3Cmdr:hmmm:Just a thought:03:

[JScones]

That has an even lower chance of happening. Jaesen is very protective of his work, and I doubt he would ever release the codes to anyone else.
As many coders here will attest, I have no problems providing code snippets when asked (I even translate my code into the coder's preferred programming language).

However, SH3Cmdr includes a number of functions that are commercial-in-confidence, with limitations imposed through professional development contracts. These functions go nowhere in raw form.

[Otto Heinzmeir]

So, to make the feature worthwhile, someone would need to create many ongoing storylines that essentially have a list of pre-prepared and dated letters that make up the ongoing story.

For reference SH3Cmdr includes 54 post career variations and 51 post war variations. So imagine creating 50 storylines that must cover the entire war. Just one letter per month would mean 3500 letter variations need to be created.

Oh, and don't forget the German and French translations. ;)

Perhaps a lite version of 10 variations could be done to keep things manegable. Not all the letters would have to tie in, since ones from distant relatives that only appear once could be thown in any where. I think I could manage a series of 50 letters that have a theme as long as I keep them to one or two small paragraphs. I wouldn't want to commit to anymore than that. I'm no help with German or French either.

What I don't understand is how to address the letters. I take it you can't use Fritz because its unlikely that the Kaluen would be Fritz. If these letters are from a wife or loved one, Dear sir doesn't seem to fit. :hmmm:

[JScones]

Sorry to be O/T but,Mr JScones would it be possible to have the remove deck gun feature actually benefit the U-boat with speed?:06:As you know as it gets to 42/43' the chances of using the deck gun are few and far between so alot of U-boats had them removed to gain a little extra underwater speed,I think the figure mentioned in a book I read said it was between 1 to 1.5 Knots,Was wondering if that could be modeled in game via the 'remove' function in SH3Cmdr:hmmm:Just a thought:03:
Read through this... http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=92490 and this http://www.uboat.net/forums/read.php?20,65071,65071#msg-65071

Do you hear crickets in response to VH's request for solid data?

With no conclusive data provided, my choice not to model any positive effects was really a no brainer, especially when, in the absence of proof, the arguments against any positive effects are so damning.

[JScones]

Perhaps a lite version of 10 variations could be done to keep things manegable. Not all the letters would have to tie in, since ones from distant relatives that only appear once could be thown in any where. I think I could manage a series of 50 letters that have a theme as long as I keep them to one or two small paragraphs. I wouldn't want to commit to anymore than that. I'm no help with German or French either.

What I don't understand is how to address the letters. I take it you can't use Fritz because its unlikely that the Kaluen would be Fritz. If these letters are from a wife or loved one, Dear sir doesn't seem to fit. :hmmm:
Correct, not all letters would need to be connected, just ongoing ones from the same people.

Addressing wouldn't be a problem - SH3Cmdr knows the Kaleun's name. ;) You'd just write "My dearest %s||Here is what I want to say. I blah blah blah.||Until next|Your darling wife". | means new line, || means new paragraph.

You'd need to create the base storyboards first, and they would have to cover the entire war (August 1939 through May 1945). For example, one storyboard might go like:

1. Context: Married. One child. Both parents alive. One sister.


Wife main storyline covers pregnancy, birth, house bombing, death of child, move near sister-in-law.
Parent main storyline covers general chit-chat, father's heart attack, mother moving in with Aunt.
Sister main storyline covers marriage, pregnancy, birth, death of soldier husband, death of Kaleun's wife and child.

As life is linear, it doesn't matter when the Kaleun starts the career, but each subsequent letter might have to provide a bit more context than what would be required in RL so as not to confuse players too much (ie "Your wife Mary" rather than just "Yours Mary").

Intertwine the main storylines with general chatty letters (ie from mother "Your cousin Fritz just got a medal for whatever", from wife "How I enjoyed our time together last month" and so on like GoldenRivet suggests) and IMHO you have what I think is necessary to make the feature worthwhile.

But I don't think 10 storyboards will be enough. However, if creative people want to use this thread to post their ideas and you, perhaps with the help of others, can collate/build enough full stories (let's say 15 full storyboards), I will build the feature into SH3Cmdr. It would be a new action called "Read mail" and would open a list of all letters received up to the "current" date. As I said, 10 lines of code max.

[TheDudTorpedo]

What I don't understand is how to address the letters. I take it you can't use Fritz because its unlikely that the Kaluen would be Fritz. If these letters are from a wife or loved one, Dear sir doesn't seem to fit. :hmmm:

G'day. Thanks for the feedback JScones.

Otto: one way to tackle this would be to categorise the letters depending whom they are from. For example, we could have the following categories, which would allow a more generic address:

1. From parents - "Dear Son"
2. From siblings - "Dear Brother"
3. From wife/girlfriend - "Dear Love"
4. From friend - "Dear Friend"
5. From fellow comrade - "Dear Comrade"

However, JSCones code may actually be able to 'read' the first name (player name) you choose for the career, and substitue that into the letter, so a generic designation may not be required - the addresdee is simply a variable that can be populated by the career name.

The bigger problem is sending the right letter according to the correct date, and as JScones points out, with some 'connectivity'. For example, lets assume a Kaleun receives a letter from his parent/s informing him his brother was captured during the fall of Stalingrad. Well, that letter could only be received some date after the actual event. Im not sure how individual letters could be constructed such that the Commander code could ascribe them to the correct period...this sounds immensely difficult. The onus would be on individual letter writers to be factually correct with respect to historical events. Perhaps some form of letter template may assist here that "helps" Commander determine which letters can be sent on which dates, or not?

This sounds like a massive undertaking, but I think its worthy of some more thought. The level of immersion will dictate the effort required from the letters point of view. If we find a way to overcome the scale of the letters required, you can count me in to help.

This certainly is a very unique problem to overcome :hmmm:

*** Edit - just read your post JScones : mmm...I'm convined some form of template will help set up the storyboards. Do you agree? So...15 storyboards, each has what...say 3 letters a month (12 x 3 - 36), with an odd random letter thrown in for good measure (say 4 a year) which gives us 40 letters per year? From '39 to '45? 240 letters per storyboard? I think I could certainly do one storyboard...at a push 2. Who know, maybe more. Count me in.

[irish1958]

Is this related to your medic idea?
JScones,
Yes. We have a prototype but we are not to the alpha stage yet.

[irish1958]

5. From fellow comrade - "Dear Comrade"

The use of the term Comrade in the Third Reich would get you shot in a big hurry.

There is a random essay generator which writes nonsense essays that are in good English and have proper grammar. Perhaps something like this could be used and adapted to this project.

I think this idea is good, but the number of letters needed is a real problem.

[JScones]

G'day. Thanks for the feedback JScones.

Otto: one way to tackle this would be to categorise the letters depending whom they are from. For example, we could have the following categories, which would allow a more generic address:

1. From parents - "Dear Son"
2. From siblings - "Dear Brother"
3. From wife/girlfriend - "Dear Love"
4. From friend - "Dear Friend"
5. From fellow comrade - "Dear Comrade"

However, JSCones code may actually be able to 'read' the first name (player name) you choose for the career, and substitue that into the letter, so a generic designation may not be required - the addresdee is simply a variable that can be populated by the career name.
As I posted - "Addressing wouldn't be a problem - SH3Cmdr knows the Kaleun's name. ;) You'd just write "My dearest %s"". Basically SH3Cmdr would replace %s with the Kaleun's first name automatically.

The bigger problem is sending the right letter according to the correct date, and as JScones points out, with some 'connectivity'. For example, lets assume a Kaleun receives a letter from his parent/s informing him his brother was captured during the fall of Stalingrad. Well, that letter could only be received some date after the actual event. Im not sure how individual letters could be constructed such that the Commander code could ascribe them to the correct period...this sounds immensely difficult. The onus would be on individual letter writers to be factually correct with respect to historical events. Perhaps some form of letter template may assist here that "helps" Commander determine which letters can be sent on which dates, or not?

This sounds like a massive undertaking, but I think its worty of some more thought. The level of immersion will dictate the effort required from the letters point of view. If we find a way to overcome the scale of the problem letters, you can count me in to help.

This certainly is a very unique problem to overcome :hmmm:
No problem. It's no different than the Nightclub feature that already exists. Just put time-based messages into the following month. So news of brother Fritz getting captured in Stalingrad would "appear" in the Kaleun's mail box in April 1943 (to take into account postal time).

To visualise the database, it would look something like:

[0];storyline assumes married, child, parents whatever
193909=19390812|My dearest %s||Here is what I want to write.||yours lovingly|Wifey
193909=19390818|My son||When will you be home?||Your annoyed father
194001=19391203|Honey, does wifey know about me yet?||Your vixen
194304=19430306|Bro, I just heard that Fritzy got captured by the Russkis.
etc etc

The first date (YYYYMM) is the date that the letter appears in the Kaleuns' "mail box" and the second date (YYYYMMDD) is the date that the letter was written.

It's as easy as that.

[TheDudTorpedo]

The use of the term Comrade in the Third Reich would get you shot in a big hurry.


Sure...but the censors would ensure it was changed to Kamerad (or whatever the correct German spelling is) :DL

[TheDudTorpedo]

To visualise the database, it would look something like:

[0];storyline assumes married, child, parents whatever
193909=19390812|My dearest %s||Here is what I want to write.||yours lovingly|Wifey
193909=19390818|My son||When will you be home?||Your annoyed father
194001=19391203|Honey, does wifey know about me yet?||Your vixen
194304=19430306|Bro, I just heard that Fritzy got captured by the Russkis.
etc etc

The first date (YYYYMM) is the date that the letter appears in the Kaleuns' "mail box" and the second date (YYYYMMDD) is the date that the letter was written.

It's as easy as that.

Ah, OK.....the solution is to think like a programmer, and in fact you have provided the template! Definately count me in.

GoldenRivet: Sounds like its your project mate. How do you want to tackle this?

Thanks JScones - some smart code you have there.

[JScones]

With some switch support it could be even fancier.

For example:
[0];storyline assumes married, child, parents whatever
193909=c|19390812|My dearest %s||Here is a handwritten letter.||yours lovingly|Wifey
193909=c|19390818|My son||When will you be home?||Your annoyed father
194001=c|19391203|Honey, does wifey know about me yet?||Your vixen
194304=c|19430306|Bro, I just heard that Fritzy got captured by the Russkis.
194401=t|19431214|Herr Kaleun,||The Fuhrer regrets to inform you that whatever...
etc etc

The c and t entries denote the font to use to display the letter. c=cursive and t=typed (or whatever, just an initial musing, might even allow full font table names to be used so you can choose fonts based on what you have installed). Thus you could have some letters display in handwriting font and some in typewriter font.

Anyway, over to you guys.

[TheDudTorpedo]

Great! That is fantastic. I already have 2 storylines in my head....nope, not telling...its a suprise! I'll spend tommorrow fleshing out some details.

I was thinking of using your template as shown above JScones (ie. with the %s, ¦ and the t and c to make it easier for you). Is it OK to do that and simply generate a .TXT file for each storyboard?

Time to catch up on some NRL now :up:

[JScones]

I was thinking of using your template as shown above JScones (ie. with the %s, ¦ and the t and c to make it easier for you). Is it OK to do that and simply generate a .TXT file for each storyboard?
Yeah, use it as your guide. Just change the YYYYMM= to YYYYMMDD=. The DD just provides more flexibility (I'm not sure how frequently mail was delivered).

You guys have fun and when you have about 15 full storyboards, let me know.

[Otto Heinzmeir]

This sounds like a lot of work to me. I feel a nap coming on.:yawn:

[Sailor Steve]

Actually, fundamentally I don't have a problem with the idea. For me it's less than 10 lines of code (it would take longer to pack and distribute the end product). But my part's easy.

Possible responses:

A) Oh sure, make me look stupid again.

B) I'm so glad you agreed to look into this.

C) Ha! Tricked him again!

I'll go with B, with a possible all of the above.
:rotfl:

The way you've described it, it is a great idea, though one with a lot of work involved if it's to be done right. Looking forward to what comes of it.

Me, I have some ships to look up, and trouble to keep out of.:sunny:

[Myxale]

:timeout:

Gee, sometimes I feel i can't sail far enough these Days!
In RL my best U-Boot moments are mostly disturbed by wife or the phone...or both.:shifty:

And now you want to Torpedo my Virtual seafaring life...with..letters from the wife...:nope:

What happened to the "Das Boot" mantra

" Kein Telefon, keine Post...gut durchgelueftetes Boot!":rotfl:

[FIREWALL]

Yeah, use it as your guide. Just change the YYYYMM= to YYYYMMDD=. The DD just provides more flexibility (I'm not sure how frequently mail was delivered).

You guys have fun and when you have about 15 full storyboards, let me know.


In the book Iron Coffins They got their mail at the end of a patrol.

[JScones]

Possible responses:

A) Oh sure, make me look stupid again.

B) I'm so glad you agreed to look into this.

C) Ha! Tricked him again!

I'll go with B, with a possible all of the above.
:rotfl:

The way you've described it, it is a great idea, though one with a lot of work involved if it's to be done right. Looking forward to what comes of it.
Actually, I thought you were trying C, LOL.

Me, I have some ships to look up, and trouble to keep out of.:sunny:
Looking forward to your next ship names release.

[JScones]

:timeout:

Gee, sometimes I feel i can't sail far enough these Days!
In RL my best U-Boot moments are mostly disturbed by wife or the phone...or both.:shifty:

And now you want to Torpedo my Virtual seafaring life...with..letters from the wife...:nope:
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

[evan82]

I have a different sugestion. About crew uniforms. Can we change uniforms via SH3Commander in the future? I use 10 uniforms for crew. Scripting them in the CFG file is not comfortable. I like use more uniforms for my crew than 4 or 5. Each crewmann look more individually when I use more uniforms.:cool:
I only ask.:DL

[JHuschke]

Sounds like more realism to me! :DL

[Laufen zum Ziel]

JS

You never fail to amaze me.

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii113/laufen345/BabyCrying.gifI wish I could do what you do.

[Torplexed]

Somebody could work in a few increasingly angry letters from an irate landlord or bill-collector.

It'd provide some motivation for staying out at sea. :D

[Jimbuna]

Somebody could work in a few increasingly angry letters from an irate landlord or bill-collector.

It'd provide some motivation for staying out at sea. :D

Also how about a few (late war) informing of the tragic loss of loved ones as a result of bombing raids.

[TheDudTorpedo]

Indeed gentlemen.

My intention is to add as much historical realism into these letters as possible. I also plan to make them somewhat unique, so there will be some suprise plots creeping into some storylines :03:

[Sailor Steve]

I have a different sugestion. About crew uniforms. Can we change uniforms via SH3Commander in the future? I use 10 uniforms for crew. Scripting them in the CFG file is not comfortable. I like use more uniforms for my crew than 4 or 5. Each crewmann look more individually when I use more uniforms.:cool:
I only ask.:DL
You can already do that with Commander. Put the uniforms in the proper folder path in the date folders when you want them to appear. That's how I have my gramaphone music change every couple of months.

[GoldenRivet]

My recommendation is that we get at least 10 to 20 volunteers to write and submit letters in notepad format to JScones.

volunteers should make themselves noticed here, and we will begin assigning a particular war year for the volunteer to work on.

Letters should be long enough to have some sort of meaning, but short enough to keep player interest.

im thinking along the lines of 50 to 150 words.

so... any takers?

[Chad]

I'm in GR :DL


What are the guidelines, and maybe JScones could help with the programming to help include like the players profile name or something similar.

[JScones]

im thinking along the lines of 50 to 150 words.
:up: Good length.

[JScones]

What are the guidelines, and maybe JScones could help with the programming to help include like the players profile name or something similar.
For EACH letter I will need to know separately:


date the letter was written (in YYYYMMDD format for consistency)
date the letter is to be delivered (in YYYYMMDD format)
content of the letter (use placeholder %s to represent Kaleun's name)
font of the letter, either cursive or typed (c or t)
name and copy of image to be attached to the letter, in jpg format


Things to consider...


Use the two dates to simulate delivery delays. For example, have one letter "written", say, on 1 Jan 1940 but not "delivered" until 1 Jun 1940, while the next letter written on 1 Mar 1940 (ie "why haven't you responded to my last letter?") delivered on 1 Apr 1940.
You can refer to previous letters that don't exist to simulate letters lost in the mail. I have decided not to have SH3Cmdr interfere with your stories; you will have total control over what appears, or does not appear, and when.
You are not limited to just letters. Consider telegrams or other correspondence types. Use the c and t settings to tell SH3Cmdr to display the text in handwriting or typewriter font accordingly.
Images can be of anything you like. Think beyond boobs.

If you have any other "can the feature do...?" questions, post them here and I'll have a look.