[needed] Avenger TBF launching torpedoes for the IJN campaign

[keltos01]

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2985/tbf.jpg (http://img23.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tbf.jpg)

http://www.acepilots.com/planes/avenger.html

I remember that someone here at subsim managed to make a plane fire torpedoes instead of bombs at the submarines.

I need a TBF Avenger aircraft that can fire a torpedo at us IJN submarines ;)

Then what I need is for that torpedo to be a MK24 "Fido" homing torpedo (=MK27).

Those were used both in the Atlantic and Pacific theaters against submarines, resulting for example in the sinking of I-52 in the Atlantic helped with the use of the first sonobuoys.

As this aircraft/weapon combination was a truly potent and historically accurate one I would like to see it implemented in our japanese campaign.

Who can help ?

Keltos

[rubenandthejets]

AOTD MAd Max is your man!

Check out FOTRS-there are some good example missions and on my first campaign run out of Manilla a Betty chopped me to bits with a torp and repeated cannon strafing runs!

I watche the rckets going into a ship in a demo. mision and BOOYAH! It's great stuff, nay, SUPERB!

[xristoskaiti]

that are this?? mad max..... :D

[keltos01]

that are this?? mad max..... :D

do you mean that are his?

I know someone here managed to have planes fire torpedoes instead of bombs, I need the same, but firing the mk27.. or if I get the mod firing the torp I can figure out how to make it fire the homing torp..

keltos

[tater]

There is an air-dropped fish in Library. I have no idea if it is hard-coded like the sub torpedoes. Maybe not.

It's easy, you make a loadout for the plane, and put the air dropped fish on a bomb node. Done.

Follow the example of the Kate. Not that there are loadout "types." Copy the ones that work.

They will then drop the air-fish.

You can then alter it to see if it can be acoustic. If it can, clone that, and see if it still works (ie: there is no hard-coded list of fish like sub fish).

That's the way I'd go since we know air-dropped fish work.

tater

[xristoskaiti]

I believe old I had made a mission with air torpedo..... perhaps with
the TMO....:hmmm:

[peabody]

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2985/tbf.jpg (http://img23.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tbf.jpg)

http://www.acepilots.com/planes/avenger.html

I remember that someone here at subsim managed to make a plane fire torpedoes instead of bombs at the submarines.

I need a TBF Avenger aircraft that can fire a torpedo at us IJN submarines ;)

Then what I need is for that torpedo to be a MK24 "Fido" homing torpedo (=MK27).

Those were used both in the Atlantic and Pacific theaters against submarines, resulting for example in the sinking of I-52 in the Atlantic helped with the use of the first sonobuoys.

As this aircraft/weapon combination was a truly potent and historically accurate one I would like to see it implemented in our japanese campaign.

Who can help ?

Keltos

There is a US torpedo plane in the game and it will drop torpedos and can hit you. I did a quick mission and they do work and did hit me. But only with one torp out of 3. But of course there were only 3 planes so that is not a lot.
It is the ATB_USTorpedoBomber. It also looks very similar to the one you have a picture of, so I think it is supposed to be the same one, maybe not 100% accruate in detail but how many planes have you actually seen in the game? And of the ones you have seen, how many were close enough to identify? Not many I'm sure.

Peabody

[AOTD_MadMax]

Hi Captains,

in FOTRS i worked out the Avanger !
She fires Torpedoes just in the same way the US_torpedobomber does.
For the japanese i worked an different air-torpedo.

If you wanne have an air-torpedo with an accoustic search-head like the shorty got it, i can make it for you but i dont know if they was realy used as air-torpedoes
I also worked out an Torpedo-Dummy.
The dummy is needed for low-level-fighters.

You can use the whole stuff for your project mate !:up:

Greets

Maddy

[keltos01]

Hi Captains,

in FOTRS i worked out the Avanger !
She fires Torpedoes just in the same way the US_torpedobomber does.
For the japanese i worked an different air-torpedo.

If you wanne have an air-torpedo with an accoustic search-head like the shorty got it, i can make it for you but i dont know if they was realy used as air-torpedoes
I also worked out an Torpedo-Dummy.
The dummy is needed for low-level-fighters.

You can use the whole stuff for your project mate !:up:

Greets

Maddy

Thanks Maddy, please do make it !

yes they were usesd against jap subs in large numbers... quite a few went down from those mk 24 "mines"

keltos

[keltos01]

Hi Captains,

in FOTRS i worked out the Avanger !
She fires Torpedoes just in the same way the US_torpedobomber does.
For the japanese i worked an different air-torpedo.

If you wanne have an air-torpedo with an accoustic search-head like the shorty got it, i can make it for you but i dont know if they was realy used as air-torpedoes
I also worked out an Torpedo-Dummy.
The dummy is needed for low-level-fighters.

You can use the whole stuff for your project mate !:up:

Greets

Maddy

Mk 24 "FIDO" Air-Dropped ASW Homing Torpedo

The primary aspect of U.S. World War II torpedo development, apart from copying electric torpedoes, was the design of a air-launched homing torpedo, fast enough to catch a submerged submarine, yet slow enough to enable the torpedo to hear the noise of a submarine over the flow noise created by itself. 12 knots was thought to be perfect.
Work by General Electric, Harvard and Bell Laboratories, begun in 1941 led to the Mk 24 "mine", a designation maybe due to security necessities, which carried a 42kg Torpex charge, enough for the expected impact detonation. The torpedo could run for up to fifteen minutes, yet most hits were scored directly after the submarine's dive.
The main weapons carry within the Navy were the TBF Avenger and PBY Catalina, which employed the weapon in lieu of and supporting depth charges. The first victim of the new weapon was U-467, sunk by a plane of VP-84 in the Atlantic, May 25th, 1943. Following her would be 31 boats, with another 15 damaged. (Numbers for the U.S. Atlantic Fleet only, no figures found for Pacific drops. Likely none were executed. Weapon is included for the sake of completeness and the possibility that it actually WAS used.).FIDO could be dropped at 125 knots from 250 feet. FIDO homed via four hydrophones and a simple steering mechanism pointing the torpedo toward the source of the noise.

Typical mission profiles included forcing the submarine to dive, then drop the torpedo onto its head.
http://www.microworks.net/PACIFIC/armament/mk24fido_air.htm (http://www.microworks.net/PACIFIC/armament/mk24fido_air.htm)

The first sinking with FIDO occurred in May 1943 and was possibly U-640 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Unterseeboot_640&action=edit&redlink=1) or U-657 (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Unterseeboot_657&action=edit&redlink=1). During its career, the torpedo sank a total of 37 submarines, achieving an effectiveness of about 22%, compared with about 9% for depth charges.
from US Navy OEG Study No. 289, 12 August (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_12)1946 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1946) provides the following data related to Mark 24 effectiveness:

Number of attacks in which Mark 24s were launched 264

Total number of Mark 24 torpedoes launched - all targets 340

Number of Mark 24s launched against submarines 204

Number of Mark 24 attacks on submarines by US aircraft 142

Number of submarines sunk by FIDO 31

Number of submarines damaged by FIDO 15

Number of Mark 24 attacks on subs by Allies (primarily British) 62

Number of submarines sunk by FIDO 6

Number of submarines damaged by FIDO 3

Total number of submarines sunk by FIDO (German & Japanese) 37*
Total number of submarines damaged 18

*Note: Includes five Japanese submarines sunk;
1 in the Atlantic
4 in the Pacific

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_24_FIDO_Torpedo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_24_FIDO_Torpedo)

[keltos01]

bump

[AOTD_MadMax]

Hi Keltos,

its not forgotten to make this torpedo for you mate.
Only Time is the reason why i havent work it out until yet.
I will let you know if they are ready !

Greets

Maddy

[keltos01]

cheers Maddy

with this one and the rocket firing ones, and the ship firing rockets, we will have an interresting campaing indeed..

and we are working on the AI Somers firing torpedoes... if you need it when it is done, call !

keltos

[peabody]

cheers Maddy

with this one and the rocket firing ones, and the ship firing rockets, we will have an interresting campaing indeed..

and we are working on the AI Somers firing torpedoes... if you need it when it is done, call !

keltos

Ok, we are doing a Japanes Campaign and you have:

Planes firing rockets
Ships firing rocket
Ships firing torpedos
Planes firing torpedos
and you want Subs firing torpedos.

Let's just make a US Minelayer to mine all Japanese harbors and get it over with. We can save fuel, so we don't sail 1000 miles to get blown up.

:har::har:

Peabody

[Starforce2]

With everyone blowing everyone else up this new mod ought to be good:arrgh!:

[keltos01]

Maddy

can you equip it with a homing torp ? that would be historically accurate against IJN subs..


keltos

[Admiral Von Gerlach]

This was indeed a hush hush top priority project during the WWII, my former father in law worked on it and the proximity anti aircraft shell,and also developed some of the first effect sound speed theory for sonar. I dont know details about use in the pacific but i do believe they did use it there....that will be another question i wll ask that retired USN officer here who is the guy who i mentioed to you was ComSubPac...see if he knows.

[keltos01]

This was indeed a hush hush top priority project during the WWII, my former father in law worked on it and the proximity anti aircraft shell,and also developed some of the first effect sound speed theory for sonar. I dont know details about use in the pacific but i do believe they did use it there....that will be another question i wll ask that retired USN officer here who is the guy who i mentioed to you was ComSubPac...see if he knows.

Thanks Admiral !
I am sure they used them in the Pacific, I have seen that data somewhere here... wait... ;)

but by all means do ask the USN officer !

keltos

could we randomize the torpedo ? meaning only once in a while you get a mk 24 ?

[Bubblehead1980]

I have read about homing torpedos used fairly regular basis in the PTO with good results.Used more in the ATO but Allied ASW was more active in the ATO.

I would love to see homing torpedos from planes(enemy subs if possible) in later years of IJN campaign.However, hope they will not be 2009 era smart bombs that ALWAYS hit.

Something I would like to see are plane dropped depth charges that can explode down to say 250-300 feet.

Ah, can't wait for this mod:salute:

[keltos01]

The following is from "US Navy Torpedoes" by Frederick J. Milford:
"340 [Fido] torpedoes [were] dropped in 264 attacks of which 204 were against submarines. In 142 attacks US aircraft sank 31 submarines and damaged 15; in 62 attacks against submarines other Allies, mainly British, sank six and damaged three. Most of these submarine sinkings were German U-boats in the Atlantic, but five Japanese submarines were sunk by Fidos, one, I-52, in the Atlantic and four in the Pacific. OEG Study No. 289, 12 August 1946, is the main source for this conclusion."

I heard there was in the Altantic Op Theater a 1 ton depth charge that had been used against subs : one dd would creep and listen, one would move on top of the target sonar off and drop the DC !

keltos

[G.K.]

Mark X DC... Quite an interesting weapon:o

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMBR_ASW.htm

[keltos01]

interresting data too :

Mark VII Heavy .

Date Of Design N/A

Date In Service 1940

Total Weight 420 lbs. (191 kg)

Explosive Charge 290 lbs. (130 kg) TNT

Sink Rate / Terminal Velocity 16.8 fps (5.1 mps)

Settings 300 feet (91 m) max

Notes: This had a 150 lbs. (68 kg) cast-iron weight attached to increase the sinking rate. The British claimed this DC would split a 0.875 inch (22 mm) hull at 20 feet (6.1 m) and force a submarine to surface at about twice that distance. A minol charge introduced in 1942 increased these distances to 26 feet (7.9 m) and 52 feet (15.8 m), respectively.

Mark X, X* and X** .

Date Of Design 1941
Date In Service 1942

Total Weight 3,050 lbs. (1,383 kg)

Explosive Charge 2,000 lbs. (907 kg) TNT

Sink Rate / Terminal Velocity
Mark X: 6 fps (1.8 mps)
Mark X*: 21 fps (6.4 mps)
Mark X**: 50 fps (15.2 mps)

Settings
Mark X: 220 feet (67 m)
Mark X*: 640 feet (195 m)
Mark X**: Depths down to 1,500 feet (457 m)

Notes: Intended for launching from a 21 inch (53.3 cm) torpedo tube. The slow sinking speed of the Mark X was so that the launching ship could get clear of the explosion. In 1943, the Mark X* was introduced. This had a faster sinking and deeper depth setting intended to combat the deeper diving U-boats that were becoming more prevalent. In 1945, the even faster sinking Mark X** was developed for use against the newer, deeper diving U-boats, but this version was not introduced into service, as the ahead throwing weapons had obsoleted it.

but how can we make the game chose different dc ? I thought there was one for all type only ?

keltos

[keltos01]

Hi Maddy !

[keltos01]

any news ?

[AOTD_MadMax]

Sorry Mate,

not yet !
We from AOTD are very busy in the moment with upcomming Onlinecampaigns in SH3 / SH4 and IL II !

I will work it out when i got enough time for it.

Greets

Maddy

[keltos01]

Sorry Mate,

not yet !
We from AOTD are very busy in the moment with upcomming Onlinecampaigns in SH3 / SH4 and IL II !

I will work it out when i got enough time for it.

Greets

Maddy
ok thanks mate !!!

keltos

[Webster]

Ok, we are doing a Japanes Campaign and you have:

Planes firing rockets
Ships firing rocket
Ships firing torpedos
Planes firing torpedos
and you want Subs firing torpedos.

Let's just make a US Minelayer to mine all Japanese harbors and get it over with. We can save fuel, so we don't sail 1000 miles to get blown up.

:har::har:

Peabody

the way things are going japan might just lose the war :hmmm:

[keltos01]

actually the Air Force did use B-29's to drop mines on japanese harbors, thus earning quite a few sinkings ! ;)

But if you read Orita's I-Boat Captain you'll notice that the submariners did indeed achieve quite a lot.


keltos