Graphics problems

[robbythesub]

I am using a PC with Sh3 GWX 2.0 with U Boat 1.2, using a ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro and am getting the famous black triangle issue, as well as jerky graphics.
The rest of the system is 3GZ twin core processor, vista 32 and 3GB RAM.

I have heard of this problem before and wondered if anyone knew what the answer is?

I have heard about re clocking your card using software atitool but it doesnt seem to support vista- can anyone help?

Many thanks :arrgh!:

[robbythesub]

Thanks for the rush of advice guys! :shifty:

[bybyx]

:hmmm:

My advice for you would be to update your video card drivers.
Another thing would be to buy a better video card. The Hd 2400pro is a old generation card and finally a more detailed description of your pc would be useful :yeah:

[irish1958]

see:http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=109135&highlight=Black+triangle
I suggest you do a search of the forum before posting, especially if you want an immediate answer to your problems.
This is a known problem, especially with old ATI cards, especially with original drivers. When I had an ATI card, I used the latest Omega drivers

[robbythesub]

Hi and thanks for the replies.

The first thing I did was update drivers so it seems that the card is old in that machine- I will update.

Regards

[robbythesub]

Just as a further point- if updating to a far better card, how do you know which card to buy, since I assume they dont all fit every machine?

Thanks again :up:

[TheDarkWraith]

I was an ATI guy now I'm only nVidia. I got on nVidia's website and found the physical dimensions of the video card I was looking to get (~10.5" long - 8800GTX) and then I contacted the manufacturer of my case (Antec 900) to get the inside physical dimensions to ensure it would fit (it was close about .5" to spare)
Now you also have to ask yourself what your motherboard supports. Do you have AGP,PCI-E, or god forbid PCI? If you have PCI-E what version? 1.0 or 2.0? These will all weigh in on your video card purchase. I'm stuck with my 8800GTX and can't upgrade to the GTX 295 until I get a new motherboard that supports PCI-E 2.0.

[bybyx]

Just as a further point- if updating to a far better card, how do you know which card to buy, since I assume they dont all fit every machine?

Thanks again :up:

That depends on the slot which the card was made for. Check your motherboard. If you have a AGP slot then a AGP card if you have a PCi express the a PCi express card.
There are two generations of PCiexpress standards: PCix 1.0 and the more recent 2.0 which gives you twice the bandwidth. As for which video card that depends on your budget.

[Wreford-Brown]

There's a load of advice on the Hardware/software forums:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=235

[robbythesub]

Thanks guys for your valued comments- I use a better nvidea card on my UK machine (GE Force 7900 GS) and it runs faultlessly with no frame rate problems, so really can enjoy the latest mods to their very best.

The card causing problems is on another machine at my house in france, and since I must have the u boat fix when there too, I am going to upgrade it!

The machine has good processor and RAM but this card seems poor, and the above comments confirm what I thought.
The sub seems to jerk across the sea rather than move smoothly when using the ATI card machine.

Personally, I seem to favour n videa and have never has any problem with the black pyramid issue with these cards.

I will try to find out what slot and system the motherboard has, but am not really sure on this issue so may need to ask someone who does know.

Cheers! :arrgh!:

[IFRT-WHUFC]

I recommend an 8600 GTS card there cheap enough and should work in your current system!!

ok
Rick

[4H_Ccrashh]

When dealing with older games, newer drivers are sometimes not the best thing to have.

I have an ATI 4870x2, the new drivers cause me all kinds of problems, including graphics hiccups.

for me the test is FRAPS, Normally I get outstanding FPS when recording. If my driver isn't working properly I can tell by starting FRAPS and try to record something.

IF the FPS during recording is low , and by low I mean it drops to 4, I know the drivers are an issue. I'm running the 8.5 driver and having no problems.

I had this same problem with my last ATI card a 3870x2.

Another cause of graphics issues can be trying to force the new cards performance onto an old program.

This is usually an Anti-Aliasing problem I actually received a dramatic increase in FPS by turning it down to 2 or 4. I can't see any difference in how the game looks and I lost the "geometric shapes floating in the sky.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/Ccrashh-PR-/AA.jpg

This was a major problem with my IL-2 game until I figured it out.

Also try turning the Catalyst AI setting from "Advanced" to "Standard". This helped remove all of my graphics anomolies. Stuff like black sky, wierd rivers and wavy lines all over the ground.

Overclocking can cause issues with older games. Any of you who were around and computing back in the days of the old 8088 , 286, 386, 486, 486DX2 and 486DX4 days will remember that when you upgraded your computer sometimes the old games wouldn't work anymore. You had too much horsepower. Back then we did stuff like turning off emm386.exe and not using any extended or expanded memory functions to get old games to work.

Overclocking a video card to run an old game is like trying to run a Ferarri engine on 2 tablespoons of gas. Try turning the overclock down or off. You can create different profiles in you ATI CCC that will reconfigure you Graphics and even adjust fan speeds AND start the program you want to play. It's possible to customize the Grpahics horsepower and taylor it to each game whether new or old.


Hope this helps.

Ccrashh

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/Ccrashh-PR-/subsimlatin.jpg

[robbythesub]

Thanks for your messages guys- I am in touch with ATI technical dept prior to getting your recommendations also.
I have not done any overclocking as I was worried about overheating (and dont really know how to!).

I have read the links sent to me above also within this forum, and it would certainly appear that my card is an old one for this game requirement (especially with the many great new mods that I am running with the game), so will upgrade it asap.

Cheers for now :up:

[bybyx]

My pc is:
Cpu: Intel core2duo 8400
MB: Gigabyte EP43-DS3L
Ram: 2 Gb Ram 1066 ddr2 Mushkin in dual channel
Video: ATI 3850 with 512 mb/ram and the latest drivers.
I don't have any graphic problems as I play SH3 and SH4 without a glitch. From my experience I discovered that for some games you need to setup a graphic profile in your card's driver. I will go against a Nvidia 8600gts because it is an old card in the same generation with Ati 2400. Sometimes Windows Vista is the problem and it is known that graphic performance in games drops when using Vista. I would choose a card belonging in the latest generation of products. From Ati is the 4000 series and from Nvidia the Geforce 200 series.

[irish1958]

i agree with bybyx; just because a card is cheap doesn't mean it is a good buy. Also in the future, you will want to play the new games as they come out, and so you might be disappointed in your card.
4H_Ccrashh, thanks for the info; I also have found that the AA settings do better if kept low as it is really a frame rate killer.

[robbythesub]

Thanks for the updates guys- however I am not sure that vista is the problem since I run it on both machines, which both have the same RAM and in fact, the machine with the nvidea GS 7900 has less processor power (2.4GZ) than the one with the ATI Radeon card, which has a processor with 3GZ (both twin core).

Such a minefield knowing which card to go with! :up:

[bybyx]

A good card for the money is a Ati 4850. It has support for dx10.1 and shader moder 4.1. If you buy one get it with a nonstandard cooler because it is way better.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gainward-hd4850-1024mb-gs_3.html#sect0

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048%20106792627%201067940677&name=Radeon%20HD%204850

Something from Nvidia's side:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gts-250,2172-2.html

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130464

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048%201305520548%201069633099%20106792634 %201067940781&name=GeForce%20GTX%20260.

A word o caution when you buy a video card because the new ones are in need of some quality power supply

[robbythesub]

Thanks and prsumably by power supply- you mean mains power supply to the plug socket rather than power within the PSU?

I may go to nvidea as I prefer those, and do you know whether the GTS 250 will fit into my machine that has the ATI Radeon 2400 currently?

I am not that used to upgrading graphics cards, so dont want to buy one that doesnt fit obviously!

:up:

[Wreford-Brown]

Rubini has given some excellent advice over in the SH4 threads:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=128517

The advice is based on using nVidia cards but you should be able to apply the same or similar settings to your ATI which may improve the way the game looks.

Nothing ventured...

[JCWolf]

Advise...


NVIDIA

[robbythesub]

Thanks guys- blimey I am even more confused as to which one will fit and which to go for now!
Love the site JC Wolf and I am STILL playing u boat 1.2, and looking forward to the update!

I shall need to spend many hours trying to decide which card to go for, but wont need it until I go back to the other PC in France late in April, so have time to work it out.

Meantime, my nvidea GS 7900 is running the game beautifully here....!

Cheers :sunny:

[Wreford-Brown]

Thanks and prsumably by power supply- you mean mains

The PSU power is very important - my computer had a 280W PSU so when I upgraded my graphics card I had to upgrade my PSU as well.

Most cards have a recommended minimum wattage - most of the new nVidias need 400W+ and I assume that the ATIs are similar.

[bybyx]

Thanks and prsumably by power supply- you mean mains power supply to the plug socket rather than power within the PSU?

I may go to nvidea as I prefer those, and do you know whether the GTS 250 will fit into my machine that has the ATI Radeon 2400 currently?

I am not that used to upgrading graphics cards, so dont want to buy one that doesnt fit obviously!

:up:

By power supply I mean the PSU. I have a Chieftec560W. If you want to know whether a new video card will fit, check your motherboard. Please give more details about your PC . For example:
CPU: Brand(Amd or Intel), model( Core2duo, Phenom, Athlon, Pentium Dual Core) , frequency(2.2GHz). This is important because you need to find a balance between cpu and videocard. A very slow cpu and a powerful video card it is not a good ideea as well as a powerful cpu and a very slow videocard.
MB: The way a post it earlier ( Gigabyte Ep43-ds3l). It is important in order to know what kind of slot you have for the videocard.
Ram: Type( ddr2 or ddr3, frequency) It always helps to have more Ram. 2gb it is minimal these days, 4gb it is great and 8gb it is fantastic.
PSU: like Antec, Corsair, Zalman or other brand and the power, like 500w or more, or less. The PSU is very important because it provides power to the components in your PC and all the modern videocard usually need another connector for power besides what they receive from the slot. Especially for a video card the most important thing is the +12volts rail or rails depending on the PSU and how many amps they have on that rail.
CASE: Your PC case is important because some of the big videocard of today are, well..., big and they don't fit in smaller cases.
If you are not sure what to do go to a computer store near you and ask for proper advice. An also if you have a friend who knows computers go with him. It is what I would do if I was in your place. However be careful because from my experience they will always try to persuade you to fool you especially when they smell that you don't know much about PC's.
PS:
Regarding the 250GTS please remember that this card is just a 9800gtx+ renamed GTS 250.

[robbythesub]

Thanks- and here is my spec copied from dxdiag with the only change now that RAM is 3MB not 2.5 as on this list.

Machine name: PC-DE-USER
Operating System: Windows Vista™ Édition Familiale Premium (6.0, Build 6001) Service Pack 1 (6001.vistasp1_gdr.080917-1612)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: Acer
System Model: Aspire M1600
BIOS: Phoenix - AwardBIOS v6.00PG
Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) D CPU 3.00GHz (2 CPUs), ~3.0GHz
Memory: 2558MB RAM
Page File: 826MB used, 4507MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 10
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
DxDiag Version: 6.00.6001.18000 32bit Unicode
------------
DxDiag Notes
------------
Display Tab 1: No problems found.
Sound Tab 1: No problems found.
Sound Tab 2: No problems found.
Input Tab: No problems found.
--------------------
DirectX Debug Levels
--------------------
Direct3D: 0/4 (retail)
DirectDraw: 0/4 (retail)
DirectInput: 0/5 (retail)
DirectMusic: 0/5 (retail)
DirectPlay: 0/9 (retail)
DirectSound: 0/5 (retail)
DirectShow: 0/6 (retail)
---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: ATI Radeon HD 2400 PRO
Manufacturer: ATI Technologies Inc.
Chip type: ATI Radeon Graphics Processor (0x94C3)
DAC type: Internal DAC(400MHz)
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_94C3&SUBSYS_E400174B&REV_00
Display Memory: 1140 MB
Dedicated Memory: 116 MB
Shared Memory: 1023 MB
Current Mode: 1440 x 900 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor: Moniteur Plug-and-Play générique
Driver Name: atiumdag.dll,atiumdva.dat,atitmmxx.dll
Driver Version: 7.14.0010.0549 (English)
DDI Version: 10
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 12/5/2007 03:43:52, 3117568 bytes
WHQL Logo'd: Yes
WHQL Date Stamp:
Device Identifier: {D7B71EE2-D783-11CF-DE76-0AC4A1C2CA35}
Vendor ID: 0x1002
Device ID: 0x94C3
SubSys ID: 0xE400174B
Revision ID: 0x0000
Revision ID: 0x0000
Video Accel: ModeMPEG2_A ModeMPEG2_C

I appreciate your assistance on this matter, and I will have to check with a local store as the machine is in France currently and I am in England!

:up:

[bybyx]

I looked over you data but I still can't find info about video card. Since it is a Ati do the following:
Go to Catalyst Control Center and look for the info like I posted in the screen shot:
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1368/55180583.png
If it is a PCI express then you need one such card, and by looking at your Pc, I personally would not buy something more than a Ati 3850 ar something similar from Nvidia like the 9000 series. However it it is a AGP card the you choices are more limited.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010380048%201305520549%20106792462%201067933728&name=Radeon%20HD%203850

[robbythesub]

Thanks and I will have to keep that on record for when I go again- I can see the word PCI in amongst the data above, so maybe it is a PCI BUS ? :up:

[bybyx]

Put a screen capture here to be sure.

[shegeek72]

Overclocking can cause issues with older games. Any of you who were around and computing back in the days of the old 8088 , 286, 386, 486, 486DX2 and 486DX4 days will remember that when you upgraded your computer sometimes the old games wouldn't work anymore. You had too much horsepower. Back then we did stuff like turning off emm386.exe and not using any extended or expanded memory functions to get old games to work. Yer showing your age. ;)

Me too. I remember when Doom 1 was bleeding edge and 16 megs of RAM was smokin' and cost $600!
--
http://tarasresources.net/sh3_wac_banner3.jpg

[robbythesub]

I can remember having a spectrum with a submarine game whose name escapes me, and droning across an empty blue patch for days without seeing the one enemy ship in the game!
That was the grass roots of my love of SH3 though I am sure! :up:

[IFRT-WHUFC]

I can remember having a spectrum with a submarine game whose name escapes me, and droning across an empty blue patch for days without seeing the one enemy ship in the game!
That was the grass roots of my love of SH3 though I am sure! :up:

If it's the same game i had on the Amstrad 6128 then that would be Silent Service!!

great game for its time!!

Rick

[robbythesub]

Yes thats right- it was the original Silent Service and a cracking game for this time!

How things have changed is amazing! :salute: