You guys still think this can't happen here?

[SUBMAN1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaTiRM_0T24

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Looks like they called it off:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=89527

But this should scare quite a few of you out there.

-S

[SUBMAN1]

Every time I bring this crap up, you guys said it couldn't happen here. I'm paranoid, blah blah blah. Let me tell you this, this wouldn't have been tolerated 20 years ago.

-S

[UnderseaLcpl]

Is this a SUBMAN-only thread or am I allowed to comment?:D

[SUBMAN1]

Is this a SUBMAN-only thread or am I allowed to comment?:DSorry - posted three thoughts in a row. I will try to keep the # of posts to a minimum.

Feel free to comment! :salute: I want to hear peoples comments. I hope it is outrage to the point of calling ones representatives.

-S

PS. All of the Subsim GT threads are of Subman property, so remember that upon engaging in any one of them! (jk Neal! :D)

[Max2147]

Reminds me of the "Communist uprising" in Mosinee in 1950.

[nikimcbee]

Is this a SUBMAN-only thread or am I allowed to comment?:D

oh, just wait til I run wild in here.:haha:

[UnderseaLcpl]

First, I'll admit that this can be viewed as a bit paranoid. There's a good chance that maybe this unit was just looking to get some hands-on training. Maybe the brass was a bit too overenthusiastic, I don't know. It does happen.

However something about it doesn't sit right with me. Besides the dubious training value of such a scenario (arms caches tend to be hidden or buried in Afghanistan and Iraq, and local insurgents are almost impossible to locate using overt searches), there are other factors.

1) A change in search protocol: It's been a while since I've searched a domicile for weapons, but this protocol they are using is quite different. The rule used to be that you would secure the perimeter of the house and demand entry. Meanwhile, the surrounding area would be examined for booby traps and anything suspicious (disturbed dirt, ropes, or anything that could be used as a marker, etc...)
The part where the person being searched is the one who opens everything is the same (might be trapped), but the procedure is a lot more demanding on the searchee (Stand there! Open That! Move This!), but that may just be for the benefit of the volunteers.

2) "Cordon and Knock" is a strategy that was only rarely used in 05-06 (at least in Al Anbar). Ineffective at locating insurgents. It takes too long, they have too much time to hide themselves and anything else. It was only used when we visited a "friendly" community, one that hadn't been searched in a while. For everything else we used something more akin to "Get Intel from an Informer and Raid".

Could be that the Guard hasn't been informed of recent developments, or that TTP has changed. Still, it makes me uneasy.

3) Selection of an Township as a training ground: It could be that the Guard doesn't have access to any of the many MOUT (Military Operations in Urban Terrain) facilities or that they don't have access to "roleplayers" to serve as residents, I don't know.
Nonetheless, this kind of training is woefully inadequate for training in today's thaeaters of operation. There are a lot of small but vital things this training environment doesn't cover including Arabic speech, cultural iconography that is common to fundamentalist Islam, suspicious vehicle identification, speech inflections (indicating nationality), proper ID verification, and cultural "sensitivity" training.
It would seem that this would make this township a poor choice for training for any kind of impending deployment. And that's to say nothing of all the artificial restrictions that must be used when searching an American community.
Could be, like I said, that the brass is too overeager, or maybe to naive to realize the importance of these elements.
Still unsettling somehow.


I'm not prepared to say that I think they may be training for operations in U.S. urban areas, yet. If the military attempts to replicate this excercise with different parameters, I'd be concerned, but as I know nothing of previous attempts at such a thing, I'll just be suspicious for now.

[longam]

Well I believe some guy standing in front of a Mill with a cool hat....this is :up:

[Overboard]

Has to be BUNK.

[Aramike]

I personally think you're reading too much into it. This ultimately is an exercise that DID NOT happen.

[Spike88]

I agree with Aramike. Although I could see how this could worry people. But I think if it was really going to be about martial law it would be silenced more, as this does and has set up red flags for certain people.

[Spike88]

As a side note, I love how everyone who's really against this bring up god. :yeah:

[August]

Military training exercises on civilian property are nothing new. I participated in several of them back in the early 1980's, chasing Special Forces teams around upstate Vermont and New Hampshire.

We've also been running them for years overseas. I can't tell you how many German barns i've slept in and how many farmers fields we tore up.

[Spike88]

The whole issue I have with this is people are willing to go to arms against the National Guard. Really the soldiers who would of been partaking in this exercise would just be doing their job.

[Aramike]

The whole issue I have with this is people are willing to go to arms against the National Guard. Really the soldiers who would of been partaking in this exercise would just be doing their job.Well, if it came down to it, wouldn't people going in arms against the Guard be simply excercising their Constitutional rights? And wouldn't the Guard's soldiers be following an illegal order?

Personally, while I believe that people are reading way too much into it (as August pointed out, this is a fairly standard practice), I also believe that "just doing their job" is no reason for any American to sacrifice THEIR rights...

[Spike88]

Your issue would be true if they had unconditional proof that this was martial law. But they don't, they are just reading too far into this and assuming what it is. My issue is with people getting ready to get in a gunfight with people who are there training, or atleast under the impression that they are training.


This issue reminds me of the assumption song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TywmpMQYojs

[sunvalleyslim]

This tells me that there is a possible threat of some form of terrorist activity that the government is planning for. However to try to make this an exercise utilizing the public to make this exercise real doesn't feel right.
I was in downtown L.A. this weekend working on a pilot film called "Flash Forward" while filming, two large military helocopters came racing down southbound along on 110 (Harbor Freeway) between the high rises of Los Angeles at about 600 ft off the deck. This is not a natural occurence in L.A. where restrictions are 1500 ft. The explanation was, #1 they were trying to stay out of LAX Airport fly zone which is 20 miles away. Or #2. They're the military they can do whatever they want. So my question was why? Why fly that low through high rises without a known threat. Was it an exercise for something in the future? Or simply overzealous airjockeys flying through? In this poltical correct time I can't think that it was just a joyride through L.A. Give me your opinion..........SVS

[August]

This tells me that there is a possible threat of some form of terrorist activity that the government is planning for. However to try to make this an exercise utilizing the public to make this exercise real doesn't feel right.
I was in downtown L.A. this weekend working on a pilot film called "Flash Forward" while filming, two large military helocopters came racing down southbound along on 110 (Harbor Freeway) between the high rises of Los Angeles at about 600 ft off the deck. This is not a natural occurence in L.A. where restrictions are 1500 ft. The explanation was, #1 they were trying to stay out of LAX Airport fly zone which is 20 miles away. Or #2. They're the military they can do whatever they want. So my question was why? Why fly that low through high rises without a known threat. Was it an exercise for something in the future? Or simply overzealous airjockeys flying through? In this poltical correct time I can't think that it was just a joyride through L.A. Give me your opinion..........SVS

Maybe they were props in the movie being filmed two blocks over?

[Spike88]

Not to stir the whole conspiracy theory pot. But your story does remind me of an occurrence that happened the other night. It was about 1 in the morning and I was laying in bed. I could hear the low roar of a jet fighter in the distance. Mind you Homestead Airforce base is about 10 miles south of us. Well, I'm laying there just about to fall asleep when it grows a lot louder. It sounded like it was low to the ground. I mean it was extremely loud. I dont know if it was a single fighter that did pass overs the same locations several times, or several different fighters. It goes on for about 5 minutes with the sound raising and falling, enventually I can hear them going off in the opposite direction. I was just about to fall asleep again, when 10 minutes later when it came back going in the direction that it came from, and the sound lasted for another 3 minutes before it was silent again.

[Aramike]

Your issue would be true if they had unconditional proof that this was martial law. But they don't, they are just reading too far into this and assuming what it is. My issue is with people getting ready to get in a gunfight with people who are there training, or atleast under the impression that they are training.


This issue reminds me of the assumption song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TywmpMQYojsUmm, well, that was kind of the context I was referring to, yes.

[Aramike]

Why fly that low through high rises without a known threat.Perhaps so they can prepare for doing it when there is a known threat...

[baggygreen]

Or, you came very close to being involved in some sort of big attack that was thwarted..

Who knows. I do know that we're not told everything because the public as a collective whole simply can't take it. Example? What if that 'terrorist' bush's 'illegal' camp in cuba turned up a genuine threat within the states, which was then stopped. That would cause one half of your population to collapse in on itself, that 'dopey guy' doing something right by you.

Just an example there...:O:

[Oberon]

Reminds me of a Simpsons episode :hmmm:

http://moviesmedia.ign.com/movies/image/article/745/745224/simpsonsinline_1163177884.jpg

Years ago though, I was living out in a fairly remote area (still pretty remote where I am now but at least there's some amenities nearby now :haha: ) and an army Lynx came over very low and proceeded to come down to about a couple of feet off the ground in a nearby field, some soldiers jumped out, stood around for a minute and then jumped back in, shut the door and the Lynx flew off.
Something pretty striking for a nine year old to witness :yeah:

[SUBMAN1]

Military training exercises on civilian property are nothing new. I participated in several of them back in the early 1980's, chasing Special Forces teams around upstate Vermont and New Hampshire.

We've also been running them for years overseas. I can't tell you how many German barns i've slept in and how many farmers fields we tore up.
Now let me point out what you are all missing - You weren't training to open cupboards to look for weapons to confiscate in every single home you entered. You were doing legitimate training.

-S

[Aramike]

Military training exercises on civilian property are nothing new. I participated in several of them back in the early 1980's, chasing Special Forces teams around upstate Vermont and New Hampshire.

We've also been running them for years overseas. I can't tell you how many German barns i've slept in and how many farmers fields we tore up.
Now let me point out what you are all missing - You weren't training to open cupboards to look for weapons to confiscate in every single home you entered. You were doing legitimate training.

-SSeriously? How do you know what training was for?

I've observed many an exercise where this activity took place - decades ago.

[Etienne]

Military training exercises on civilian property are nothing new. I participated in several of them back in the early 1980's, chasing Special Forces teams around upstate Vermont and New Hampshire.

We've also been running them for years overseas. I can't tell you how many German barns i've slept in and how many farmers fields we tore up.
Now let me point out what you are all missing - You weren't training to open cupboards to look for weapons to confiscate in every single home you entered. You were doing legitimate training.

-S

The article specify that they would only have searched house that volunteered to be searched. That kind of negates, well, all of the legal arguments. If you want to invite soldiers to search your houses, you're free to do so.

Few years back, I was in the Med during a gigantic NATO exercise (Well, it sounded gigantic to us anyway); all vessels in the area received NUMEROUS warnings of the exercices, and requests for volunteers were sent out with those warnings (You could volunteer to be used as escort practice up to getting boarded by guys from an helicopter. It was pretty specific.)

I suppose they were planning to do pretty much the same thing.

[danurve]

Seems to me K-town was live surreal training. Didn't matter if you had means of self preservation, if you were young and healthy, or an 80 year old woman.

[surf_ten]

The NWO conspiracist are going ga ga over this story. I guess the whole financial collaspse is supporting people's beliefs that the evil cabal of elistist are out to get us non essential beings.

[Onkel Neal]

Every time I bring this crap up, you guys said it couldn't happen here. I'm paranoid, blah blah blah. Let me tell you this, this wouldn't have been tolerated 20 years ago.

-S

I would like a summary in the post, so I can decide if I want to click on the link.

[surf_ten]

Every time I bring this crap up, you guys said it couldn't happen here. I'm paranoid, blah blah blah. Let me tell you this, this wouldn't have been tolerated 20 years ago.

-S

I would like a summary in the post, so I can decide if I want to click on the link.

Essentially the National Guard wanted to conduct a search and detain operation in some small town in western Iowa. Basically they were going to go house to house searching for a weapon's dealer provided the homeowner gave permission for their search. They was also going to cordon off the town streets to prevent people to come and go. This excercise is to help the guard unit train for real world deployment in Afganistan at least that is the cover story. The excerise was canceled.

[August]

Now let me point out what you are all missing - You weren't training to open cupboards to look for weapons to confiscate in every single home you entered. You were doing legitimate training.

-S

Well weapons searches are legitimate training, but unlike these National Guardsmen we weren't from the area so we wouldn't have the ties to the community that they did either.

Besides what self respecting insurgent keeps his weapon in the kitchen cupboard? :roll: