WIP - Pure manual targeting ...

[vanjast]

I'm just throwing together some Doccies and Tables to help those who like 100% 'realism' targeting through their scopes. A little bit of simple maths is required, which is why you're the Captain... right ?

A ship table where all measurements are scaled at 1 Nautical mile - Yes!! .. you're in the navy now :salute:
You'd use these measurements for range calculations
http://www.vanjast.com/Sh4Mod/ShipTable.jpghttp://www.vanjast.com/SH4Mod/ShipTable.jpg

When AOB = 90 you can read the ship speed off this table by timing the ship when it passes through X degrees on the scope gradations. When AOB < 90 you scale the timing accordingly. Most accurate measurement are from 0<AOB<45
http://www.vanjast.com/SH4Mod/ScopeSpeedMeasure.jpg


So a little test using Iowa as our 'guinea pig'.
While the ship approaches, we measure range, from mast height (No AOB) or from shiplength scaled to AOB. Read values off the first pic above.

We measure time it takes to cross 1 degree on the scope. Scale this to AOB, and read speed off the table (2nd pic) above. Punch in all the goodies into the TDC.

Timing..
http://www.vanjast.com/SH4Mod/StartTimer.jpg

Aiming/firing Tube 3
http://www.vanjast.com/SH4Mod/Tube3.jpg


Tube three hitting.... PURE MANUAL MODE
http://www.vanjast.com/SH4Mod/Tube3Hit.jpg

Accuracy is fairly consistent over all speed ranges.
Next post will be a link to all the goodies - must just clean it up and add a decent doc
:D

[Platapus]

Hey Buddy! If you want to sink American ships go back to SH3 LoL

We don't want your kind in the US Navy :har:

I do have a question about your speed chart. Is your chart easier to use then just timing the passage of the target across the stationary hairline of the scope and using the following formula

Speed (kts) = 1.94 x Length of ship (meters) / Time (seconds)

A simple conversion could be made for the ship length in feet (I am a metric type of guy myself). The advantage of this formula is that it is range independent and works pretty good for AoB under 45.

[vanjast]

We don't want your kind in the US Navy :har:
The Village People never convinced me to join the US Navy.. :D


Speed (kts) = 1.94 x Length of ship (meters) / Time (seconds)

A simple conversion could be made for the ship length in feet (I am a metric type of guy myself). The advantage of this formula is that it is range independent and works pretty good for AoB under 45.

This looks like it's the same idea except I put it in table format. I'm going to change this to a sliding ruler/circular chart thingy. It looks likes that formula gives an approximate reading, where as I'm looking for 'pinpoint' accuracy :damn:.
This is been geared for RFB where where you hit a ship matters.

[cgjimeneza]

this is excellent, Ive got a lot of slide rules (bot ATO and PAC)
but have never had the courgage to go manual

will this include all ships (TMO and or RFB + RSRD flavors)

as you know they add extra ship classes

good idea

but do try with a Kaga next time ok : :rotfl:

[Soundman]

Good post. I really like that scope you are using with the red lubber line. Where did you find it? A link would be greatly appreciated.

[vanjast]

Good post. I really like that scope you are using with the red lubber line. Where did you find it? A link would be greatly appreciated.
Over here (the 3rd mod) http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147702

It's made for RFB but could still work for TMO. The readme will explain.
Use JSGME to install it with TMO. If it doesn't work - uninstall it.

This is currently an addition to RFB and my RealNav mod (my next trick which is nearly finished - got sidetracked by this). Once complete I'll test with TMO.
:)

[Pisces]

We don't want your kind in the US Navy :har:
The Village People never convinced me to join the US Navy.. :D


Speed (kts) = 1.94 x Length of ship (meters) / Time (seconds)

A simple conversion could be made for the ship length in feet (I am a metric type of guy myself). The advantage of this formula is that it is range independent and works pretty good for AoB under 45.

This looks like it's the same idea except I put it in table format. I'm going to change this to a sliding ruler/circular chart thingy. It looks likes that formula gives an approximate reading, where as I'm looking for 'pinpoint' accuracy :damn:.
This is been geared for RFB where where you hit a ship matters.If I understand your second table right you want to measure speed by timing how long the bow (or whatever part) crosses 1, 2, 4, or 8 degrees in the scope? Right? Well, you need a range to the target for that, as a degree at 1nm is smaller than say 4 nm. The 4 collumns alow to correct for this range but would be cumbersome in use. And loose accuracy.

The formula that Platapus gives is as accurate as the identification you make and what's in the recognition manual. And what's really great, range is no issue at all. It is sensitive to your movement though. To avoid that, it requires having the periscope at 0 or 180, and being on course that is just infront of the target bow. You let the target pass an imaginary wall (immovable since you move along it) in the ocean made by the vertical periscope line. The target's own length determines the speed by how long it takes to cross it. Simple as that. No range or AOB to correct for. Only with near-bow and near-aft AOB it is difficult to measure since you can't see the begin and end of the ship as the structures and sides are in the way. But between 20-160 it's usually good. I would say this method is much more 'pinpoint accurate' as the one above.

[vanjast]

I've changed the whole concept, and am looking at a wheel.
I agree with the other methods, but they require you to keep your scope up for too long, to make a measurement.

What I want to do, is pop the scope up, make a quick bow measurement, down scope and work out all the TDC stuff, punch this into the TDC and then setup the shot. It requires a bit of homework for one person, but they had about 3 or more people doing this.

Another thing, is that if target courses and speed change at the last minute, one doesn't have the time to do 'longtime' measurements.
:cool:

[Pisces]

I've changed the whole concept, and am looking at a wheel.
I agree with the other methods, but they require you to keep your scope up for too long, to make a measurement.

What I want to do, is pop the scope up, make a quick bow measurement, down scope and work out all the TDC stuff, punch this into the TDC and then setup the shot. It requires a bit of homework for one person, but they had about 3 or more people doing this.

Another thing, is that if target courses and speed change at the last minute, one doesn't have the time to do 'longtime' measurements.
:cool:Ok, sliderule wheel is a perfect solution to the calculation.

But, you don't have to watch al the time. Just the time it starts to touch the line and when it's passed. You could take a peek every now an then to see how far it got (to finally pop up at the right tiime). Also, you can do it at long range. But still, what do you consider long? As an example from Sh3 (as I don't know how long the average pacific merchant is): 140m long ship (which would be 460ft or 155yds) at 7 knots takes 39 seconds to cross. If that Iowa is 270m long, at 10knots its taking 52.5 seconds.

If the target's course and speed change you've made a bad move anyhow, since you are likely detected. If not, it's a regular course change and you've got time enough to track and kill it until the next course change. But hey, if you feel like making it complicated, be my guest. :up:

[SpeedyPC]

Man! :hmmm: :06: I still don't understand about using Manual Targetting I've spend nearly 4 months learning and trying to do Manual Targetting, I hate auto I guess I never been in a navy sub to learn real life submarine.

A little bit of simple maths is required, which is why you're the Captain... right ? No :nope: not me and my sub boat. :nope: :nope: :nope:

Pssssss. pass me a drink I've got a Manual Targetting headage :damn: :damn: :damn:

[Platapus]

SpeedyPC.

Here is a suggestion for you.

1. First read some of the many really great guides in both the SH4 and SH3 forums. Check out some of the videos out there. They really help.

2. Load up SH4 and choose the AAA/Deck gun tutorial. There you will find a stationary and slowly moving targets. This way you will have plenty of time to set up your manual targeting setup.

Don't bother with the torpedo tutorial. That cruiser is moving too fast to learn manual targeting.

You can also load up a campaign and sink some of the stationary ships outside Pearl for practice. It is just practice and we won't tell anyone it was you sinking Americans. If sinking Americans bothers you, just use Mk 14's and the target ship will be perfectly safe. :damn:

The key is to read about one concept of manual targeting and then practice that concept on a stationary/slow target. Then go back and read about another concept and practice that. Since it will take time, you want a stationary or slow moving target.

Manual target seems complicated at first but it really is just a series of simple steps that need to be done quickly. Don't worry about learning all the steps at once. That is a lot to learn. Learning manual targeting is like eating an elephant. You do it one bite at a time.

Keep with it. Listen if a bunch of squidly academy grads could do it, so can you. :|\\

And the first time you sink a ship using manual targeting the rush you will get will make it all worth while.

Good luck and don't forget to open the torpedo doors. :arrgh!:

[cgjimeneza]

Man! :hmmm: :06: I still don't understand about using Manual Targetting I've spend nearly 4 months learning and trying to do Manual Targetting, I hate auto I guess I never been in a navy sub to learn real life submarine.

A little bit of simple maths is required, which is why you're the Captain... right ? No :nope: not me and my sub boat. :nope: :nope: :nope:

Pssssss. pass me a drink I've got a Manual Targetting headage :damn: :damn: :damn:

do a search for a fellow skipper named rockin robbins

he`s got some tutorials (video and text) under his signature

and he`s got a sligthly sub-nuclear mk-14 torp...... kaboom