hopeless ASW - how is a guy supposed to get killed here?

[Keelbuster]

I've been testing out the AI for the purposes of training myself in evasion. I created a scenario where I'm detected by 4 Captain class DDs (crew set to Elite), in perfectly still water, june 1944. They proceed to asdic me and hunt me, doing DC run after DC run. Sadly, they can't score a hit. I'm driving along at 2kts at 100m, without silent running on. They've scored a few grazes, with minor damage, but nothing serious. I haven't even been taking evasive action - just driving along in a straight line. They've pinged right up until they're attack run, meaning they should have perfect information on me. Still, they can't seem to connect. I'm disappointed since they are so poor under perfect ASW conditions. They've been at it for over an hour, maybe 20 or 30 DC runs with hedgehogs, and no major hits.

I'm using GWX 3.0 with longer repair times mod. I was doing this 'training' in order to get used to the new damage model. Sadly, I can't seem to receive any damage. Worse, when I drop down to 165m, they lose me instantly - no asdic, they seem completely blind.

Anyone else notice this sort of pathetic ASW performance? I wonder if the LRT mod might have changed ASW behaviour? This might affect their detection abilities (I seem to remember that in previous mod setups - like earlier GWX, asdic could find you at a 165m), but not the precision on their basic DC attack, right? These guys can't seem to drop the cans on me. They're either the wrong depth, or more commonly, the DCs are dropped right on me so that by the time they go off, I've moved on (even at 2kts!). What they need to do is drive over me and drop them in front of my path, at my depth. Anybody else finding it hard to get killed?

[FIREWALL]

More like the other way around for me. :haha:

in 43 I had a flower corvette that had an unlimited amount of dc's and stayed on me it seemed forever.

I went to 200m and silent running with a zigzag and that sucker stuck to me like glue.

[Lanzfeld]

KeelBuster,

Are you, by chance, using SH-3 Commander in these tests?

If you are, maybe there is a "thermal layer" above you put in by SH-3 Commander.

[Keelbuster]

KeelBuster,

Are you, by chance, using SH-3 Commander in these tests?

If you are, maybe there is a "thermal layer" above you put in by SH-3 Commander.

Oh wow - good point. I didn't think of that. I'll check out SH3 commander when back to port. It really did feel like a thermal layer (I started asking myself if maybe it _was_ more realistic to disappear like that:). That might affect my detection problem, but what about my bonehead DD behaviour problem?

[FIREWALL]

Is the thermal layer in SHC something you activate or is it just done by default ?

[mx]

Is the thermal layer in SHC something you activate or is it just done by default ?

it's in random_events.cfg in cfg folder at sh3cmdr location but i have no idea how to edit it to, for example, set the thermal layer to 200m or so..

[FIREWALL]

Is the thermal layer in SHC something you activate or is it just done by default ?

it's in random_events.cfg in cfg folder at sh3cmdr location but i have no idea how to edit it to, for example, set the thermal layer to 200m or so..


@ mx Found it, opened it, looked at the thermal layer part and.... couldn't make heads nor tails of it. :har:

[BasilY]

DD in 44 is very lethal in GWX 2.1. Even with themal layer (which is rarely above 150 meters, I think), being at 100 meter should be VERY dangerous.

[Weiss Pinguin]

Is the thermal layer in SHC something you activate or is it just done by default ?

it's in random_events.cfg in cfg folder at sh3cmdr location but i have no idea how to edit it to, for example, set the thermal layer to 200m or so..
The thermal layer is on by default with SH3, and it sets the layer to a random depth everytime you run SH3.

[Keelbuster]

DD in 44 is very lethal in GWX 2.1. Even with themal layer (which is rarely above 150 meters, I think), being at 100 meter should be VERY dangerous.

Yea - I was running at 100m, and clearly above any thermal layer because they were pinging me actively, and seemed to know where i was (making DC runs overtop of me). However, with no evasion whatsoever on my part, they weren't able to sink me - much less score a direct hit, and again, probably over about 20 or 30 DC runs. :hmmm:

[mx]

DD in 44 is very lethal in GWX 2.1. Even with themal layer (which is rarely above 150 meters, I think), being at 100 meter should be VERY dangerous.

Yea - I was running at 100m, and clearly above any thermal layer because they were pinging me actively, and seemed to know where i was (making DC runs overtop of me). However, with no evasion whatsoever on my part, they weren't able to sink me - much less score a direct hit, and again, probably over about 20 or 30 DC runs. :hmmm:

DD's are charging you're last known/current location, and when you're at 100m even at 2knt speec, by the time the DC's reach that depth you're gone. my guess is that in sh3 there is no coded behaviour that, well, predicts where you'll be in, let's say next 3-5 minutes. what i'm trying to say is: if i were a DD i would crap all over your current location, as well as further to it, at your last known course, but the sh3 DD's stop droping Depth charges after a 30-50m lenght or so, short bursts of depth charching and they turn arround

[A Very Super Market]

Try setting the ship to veteran, elite may cause a bit of problems.

[GoldenRivet]

Try setting the ship to veteran, elite may cause a bit of problems.

correct.

set the AI to veteran, run SH3 without running SH3 commander and try the test again.

you'll wish you didnt.

[Keelbuster]

Try setting the ship to veteran, elite may cause a bit of problems.

correct.

set the AI to veteran, run SH3 without running SH3 commander and try the test again.

you'll wish you didnt.

Ok - will sober up and try this asap. Thx.

[BasilY]

DD in 44 is very lethal in GWX 2.1. Even with themal layer (which is rarely above 150 meters, I think), being at 100 meter should be VERY dangerous.
Yea - I was running at 100m, and clearly above any thermal layer because they were pinging me actively, and seemed to know where i was (making DC runs overtop of me). However, with no evasion whatsoever on my part, they weren't able to sink me - much less score a direct hit, and again, probably over about 20 or 30 DC runs. :hmmm:

Even if they can't sunk you with depth charges, how are you going to re-supply oxygen if the DD's are on top of you?

[bgey]

set the AI to veteran, run SH3 without running SH3 commander and try the test again.

eh? :06: Where can you adjust the I of the AI? Don't think I've seen that before. :hmmm:

Benny

[harzfeld]

DD in 44 is very lethal in GWX 2.1. Even with themal layer (which is rarely above 150 meters, I think), being at 100 meter should be VERY dangerous.
Yea - I was running at 100m, and clearly above any thermal layer because they were pinging me actively, and seemed to know where i was (making DC runs overtop of me). However, with no evasion whatsoever on my part, they weren't able to sink me - much less score a direct hit, and again, probably over about 20 or 30 DC runs. :hmmm:
Even if they can't sunk you with depth charges, how are you going to re-supply oxygen if the DD's are on top of you?
I would use snorkel, head to nearest Axis port that have Axis warships, planes, or shore guns to take care of the problem. :smug:

Edit; their DCs aren't unlimit, you can stay underwater long enough for them to run out of DCs. I think you have to surface or use snorkel between 24 to 48 hours. I don't remember how long oxygen runs out exactly to get all crew killed.

[bgey]

eh? :06: Where can you adjust the I of the AI? Don't think I've seen that before. :hmmm:

Never mind, I guess this is a setting in the mission editor and not a 'normal' game setting. :88)

Benny

[Keelbuster]

Try setting the ship to veteran, elite may cause a bit of problems.

correct.

set the AI to veteran, run SH3 without running SH3 commander and try the test again.

you'll wish you didnt.

Ok - testing out the Veteran crew DD. I seem to notice a difference already - still running at 100m, 2kts, no silence and they've scored two close hits, causing flooding in 3 compartments. This a good thing. Sort of:) Anyway - yea, I'll let you know how long it takes them to sink me.

[Keelbuster]

Ok - so after 80 minutes of DC runs by the 4 DDs, they had inflicted moderate flooding in 6 compartments. This was enough to 'sink' my boat, travelling at 2kts. I'm going to try to rest on the bottom and fix it (if i can, because the LRT mod has chalked up like 150 hours of repairs). There was a thermal later at about 140m, because pinging abruptly stopped. I check out SH3 commadner (v. 3.2) and I didn't see any option for thermal layers. If they're automatic, that's too bad because I want to use SH3 commander for all of its great features. I wonder if I could just make the thermal layer deeper...?

[GoldenRivet]

thermal layers in SH3 Commander - as i understand it - simply sets the max sensor range to a variable value.

for example, DDs asdic will still function properly, however its max range will only be about 150m or 200m or whatever random property it is assigned.

sometimes it is far deeper than you dare ever go, sometimes it is very shallow.

I dont know what it is with "elite" unit status but they dont seem to try as hard in some cases.

for example... most if not all "elite" air units will not even drop their bombs on you unless they are setting themselves up for a perfect attack against you. which it is almost never perfect.

wierd :doh:

i think as long as elite status units can be avoided - the damage and ability of the AI to inflict it is pretty spot on in GWX 3.0

[AndyW]

Notice to myself: Enlist on KptLtn. Keelbuster's boat to survive WW II - the man has a lucky streak. :DL

Cheers,

[Keelbuster]

P.S. - I just thought I'd finish off my 'sinking' story. After they had 'sunk' me, I was left with days of repairs thanks to the LRT mod. In order to keep from sinking below crush I had to run at 6kts - thankfully for the thermal layer, they didn't hear me, and I managed to drive outside of their visual range - just before my battery died. I set best repair crew I had on the worst compartment, surfaced and ran flank to recharge, air out, and prevent further sinking (when on the surface, you can stay afloat with major flooding). I drove straight for the most shallow part of Rockall. In the next 5 hours or so, my damage boys solved the flooding in the stern compartments. I had bow quarters and bow torpedo flooding badly, so I set them to work there. Daylight came, and with it came my first flight of bombers. I crash dove, but to my horror, my front-heavy boat went into a steep dive and was obviously going to drop like a stone. I hit all-reverse, and blew ballast - She just barely came back, eventually to surface, with zero compressed air left. I dodged about 8 or 9 strafing runs, taking minor damage each time (my AA guns were damaged and out of order, and I hadn't repaired them since my priority was flooding control). I was forced to run the gauntlet, surfaced, until I reached the shallows where I could sink and rest on the bottom, safely above crush depth, and repair while the planes passed overhead. After another two hours of running for the shallows, dodging a second round of bombers I finally reached the shallows and dove. I bottomed out, and all looked good - the flooding was receding in both front compartments - I was going to make it. Just another 12 hours or so of repairs, and this baby would be seaworth again. I hit TC. 'We're taking damage'. I go back to my crew screen to find the damage repair team, and everyone in the bow crew quarters DEAD. Perplexed, I eventually discovered the existence of the 'Seabed Repair Mod'.
:)

[Faamecanic]

Is being able to rest on the bottom unique to GWX? I noticed I did this once after a nasty DC attack drove me to 230m..and I didnt get more damage on the bottom. I think stock SH3 you couldnt hit bottom without damage.

[AndyW]

You'll need to install the "Seabed Repair Mod" to lay on the bottom of the ocean without getting harm, but reading Keelbuster's experience makes me nervous
The SRM did work well so far in my careern no signs of a TC death.

Cheers,