Peleus Affair

[harzfeld]

What's your opinion about this?
http://www.uboat.net/articles/index.html?article=18
Read chapters 1-4.

Do you think Heinz-Wilhem Eck & his two officers deserved a death sentence?
http://uboat.net/men/commanders/232.html

[A Very Super Market]

Neil all or troll alien?

I'm fairly certain this has been discussed to death already.

[harzfeld]

Well, I am not here everyday, only when I learned of new mods. I brought it up cuz I am traveling to my patrol area in GWX 3.0, so it takes time. I am bored while traveling with no enemy ships in sight yet, so I looked up at U-boat website after some interesting radio messages on some U-boats while I travel at 256TC, then came cross to this story which got me interested.

[GoldenRivet]

I've never even heard of this incident.

My opinion... He should have pushed as far south as he could before dawn and left the "debris" alone. At least this is what I would have done.

He could have avoided detection if he acted conservatively over the next 48-72 hours.

No matter the intent... Straffing debris is pretty pointless, and could kill survivors ... Not worth it.

His best course of action would have been to let the ship just sail by unmolested.

[Freiwillige]

I would have to agree that this would be a war crime. First off he tarnished the U boatwaffe's reputation and set a precedent. Secondly several of his higher ranking officers were openly opposed to this idea. Yea he should have been found guilty. If he made it back to Germany the German naval staff should have put him on trial.

It was not the Kreigsmarines finest moment:nope:

[Murr44]

Their death sentences were well & truly deserved in my opinion...

[BasilY]

The action of Eck's was dumb, un-necessary, but the death sentence is too harsh for the crime:

1. He acted out of what he believe was a military necessity (although his judgment was wrong), not out of sadistic pleasure.
2. There are clear examples where allied military personnel giving clear order to shot survivors (not just debris) in the water (3 notable cases was given in the uboat.net article.) The claim of military necessity in those cases were even weaker.

The action of the ship's doctor, using a weapon while a non-combatant, was a major error in judgment. Whether he should be shot for that is up to debate.

If I were commanding a IXD, and someone told me all previous boat of this type has been sunk, I will probably act pretty jumpy as well. (Maybe not as jumpy as Eck, but I was not in a real war.)

Of cause, if I were in the shoes of the greek sailors, my opinions would be very different.

[harzfeld]

I agree its stupidity of them, and death penalty seems too harsh. And was this case being handled by politicians, so it was unfair trial? Image if their logbook or journal were destroyed before discovered by Brits, would they still get away with it? I remembered reading somewhere about Russia sub crew shot down some Norway fishermen at a port, did they get trial and sentence? I recalled some of Brits actions against civilians were considered as war crime, but only Allied weren't liability on anything they did were considered unethical? So was this case was more to peers or propaganda purpose than justice?

[Freiwillige]

It does not matter what the allies did. It is simply wrong what these men did. When these men commited there crime did they know of situations where the allies had done the same? I beleive that the commander had gotten close to what he deserved, the other two should have gotten much smaller jail time.

But.....A fair trial is also a must when condeming these men and not the debauchery of justice they had here or at Nuremburg.

[Kapt Z]

I've never even heard of this incident.

My opinion... He should have pushed as far south as he could before dawn and left the "debris" alone. At least this is what I would have done.

He could have avoided detection if he acted conservatively over the next 48-72 hours.

No matter the intent... Straffing debris is pretty pointless, and could kill survivors ... Not worth it.

His best course of action would have been to let the ship just sail by unmolested.

I agree.

[Sailor Steve]

I'll go with BasilY's summation, as it reflects my own feelings on the subject. If he did it because he thought he was protecting himself by sinking debris, and not from willful murder, then he deserved prison time for being stupid if nothing else; but the death penalty was a bit extreme under the circumstances.

The account of the trial itself is fascinating, and I had not read it before, even though I am a regular visitor to www.uboat.net (http://www.uboat.net). Thanks for the reference.