How can I suck so much as SH4 when I am good at SH3?

[Platapus]

Ok clearly this has to be a case of operator error. I would greatly appreciate any advice.

I have been playing SH3 (gwx+olc) for a while and I am pretty good at the manual targeting (80% realism). I have no problems with manual targeting with SH3. I put holes in the floaty things all the time.

I recently dusted off Sh4 (1.4+ TM) at 79% realism and I can't hit a bull on the butt with a bass fiddle. Even setting up a sweet "Dick O'Kane" and shooting four fish I miss :damn:

I have to be missing something real simple and stupid as that is the type of Captain I am. :88)

Lemme see if I understand SH4 manual targeting and perhaps one of your smart guys (including the ladies, of course) can help this landlubber. This is what I have been doing.

Setting up a "Dick O'kane" approach.

1. Take several sightings to get speed and course plotted. I still use 3:15 as I have SH4 setup for metric.

2. Position sub appropriately for a 90 degree intercept at less than 1000 meters. Standard just like SH3.

3. Open the data entry wheel

3a select speed and rotate wheel to indicate speed of target in knots, Hit red triangle to send data to TDC

3b select AOB and set AoB to 90 degrees (yes making sure I have port and starboard correctly set [made that mistake way too often]). Hit red triangle to send data to TDC

4. Set periscope to 350 (for starboard approach) or 010 (for Port approach). Keep periscope stationary.

5. Set torpedo depth for all tubes

5a do nothing with PK

6. Open all torpedo doors

7. Wait for juicy parts of target to pass stationary periscope

8. Torpedoes Los! er I mean Fire torpedoes as juicy parts pass hairline.

9. See all torpedoes miss target :cry:

What step am I missing? All I am doing is sending two pieces of data to the TDC. I am not doing anything with the range (one time I spun the range to the max).

I only hit the red triangle twice (to enter speed and AoB). Do I have to activate anything else even if I am not using the PK?

Am I missing something. I have set up perfect "O'kane" approaches about 5-7 times and always miss. In SH3 I never miss with a good setup.

Help me before I defect back to the Kregsmarine. :oops:

[Fincuan]

You procedure is just about ok, but you forgot one fundamental thing: In a Fleet boat the periscope is not tied to the TDC.

US TDC does not update the gyro angle based on where the periscope is pointing, unlike its German counterpart, but based on either manual user input or PK. Sending range also sends bearing, and it's always a good habit to click the "Send to TDC" button twice whenever sending the range.

In other words your procedure needs one step corrected. I would also do this before you set AOB, just in case, and also use the real AOB instead of 90. This AOB is of course only valid for 90 degree intercepts.

3b) Point the scope to the 350 or 10. Spin the range wheel to for example 1500 meters, hit "Send to TDC" twice.
4) Set AOB to 80 port or starboard, "Send to TDC"

[AngronIsAngry]

I believe you forgot adjusting AoB according to lead angle. If you are missing only by a short distance that could be it.
While I don't know if 3:15 is the meter equivalent of the 3minruleofthumb for imperial, there is a Nomograph mod in meter out there too. Maybe that helps too, at least I hope it will.

[Fish40]

Also you need to do a couple of steps with the range wheel. First, manualy drag the wheel to read the maximum (I believe it's clockwise till it can't go any more). Then send this to the TDC. Next, set your AOB to 80 degrees port or starbord, and set the scope to the 10 degree lead angle; ie target approaching from the right, point scope at 10 degrees. Target approaching from the left, point scope at 350 degrees. When this is done, send to TDC again.

I use this method with great results. I have found that obtaining an accurate speed is critical with this method.

[Platapus]

You procedure is just about ok, but you forgot one fundamental thing: In a Fleet boat the periscope is not tied to the TDC.

:doh: I forgot about that "little" detail. <hanging head in shame> :oops: I must have been hungo---uh sick that day in Sub School. ;)

3b) Point the scope to the 350 or 10. Spin the range wheel to for example 1500 meters, hit "Send to TDC" twice.
4) Set AOB to 80 port or starboard, "Send to TDC"

Much thanks for this tip. Perhaps tonight I can finally poke a few holes in the Japanese floaty things.

Angron, Yes 3:15 is the same as 3:00 just for metric. I am a metric kinda guy so I like to keep everything in metrics. I disabled the Nomograph in SH4 as I don't like Nomos I can't move. I will look for a good nomo mod as they sure are handy for times when you can't do 3:00/3:15.

[Fish40]

Platapus, if you haven't red this, it's all explained here: http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu45I.H5Jdz4BKABXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzcWFyOGJ yBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0gyMjdfMTMz/SIG=12cq05j19/EXP=1233144264/**http%3a//www.subsowespac.org/forum/index.php%3ftopic=374.0

[Rockin Robbins]

Please visit the Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1025180&postcount=1) thread for some really cool 3/5 printable cards for the Dick O'Kane Method, the John P Cromwell Method and the Vector Analysis Method. Yes, I can assure you that it is just as frustrating to go from the American to the German Boat. I had to deficate on the poop deck until I could find out what the @#$#% they call the bathroom.:nope:

Interestingly, Nisgeis tells me that in the real American boat you could directly hook up the periscope bearing to the TDC, but that we can't do that in the game. That's frustrating!

[groomsie]

Please visit the Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1025180&postcount=1) thread for some really cool 3/5 printable cards for the Dick O'Kane Method, the John P Cromwell Method and the Vector Analysis Method. Yes, I can assure you that it is just as frustrating to go from the American to the German Boat. I had to deficate on the poop deck until I could find out what the @#$#% they call the bathroom.:nope:

Interestingly, Nisgeis tells me that in the real American boat you could directly hook up the periscope bearing to the TDC, but that we can't do that in the game. That's frustrating!

RR, in looking at your cards I realize somehow I've made my "Cromwell" attack into the "vector" attack...they are similar, but the vector attack is more work to calculate and so when I'm in a hurry I tend to avoid it--the Cromwell attack as you lay out is simpler to execute than what I've been doing, so maybe now with the clarification these great aids have given me perhaps the "Cromwell" technique will become more utilized in my attacks. Many Thanks!!

[Rockin Robbins]

Glad to help. The reason I have the vector analysis attack in there is that it calculates a zero gyro attack for any combination of courses for submarine and target. And as you gain practice, you'll find yourself setting it up so quickly you won't believe it. Oh! And the vector analysis method doesn't care whether it's in a submarine or a U-Boat.

Just make sure you have set target speed to zero and/or AoB to zero or 180 before you use it or the torpedo doesn't go out at zero gyro! Target speed zero by itself is all you need and that's the quickest to set.

[Platapus]

Oh I well remember RockinR's explanation. :yep: About 6-8 months ago he, very very patiently explained Dick's technique to me. He was even able to do so using very small words and he typed them real slow as he knows I am not a fast reader. :up: Most appreciative of his patience.

In using Dick's technique in SH3 it was a little different because, as Fincuan pointed out American subs aint German subs. :know:

I really appreciate you guys setting me straight on this. It was frustrating seeing INJ sailors enjoying a pleasure cruise.

One other question on a different topic. If I never intend to use the german missions in SH5 1.5 is it really worth getting? What will I get for my precious 10 bucks if I stick with American subs in SH5?

[Rockin Robbins]

I like U-Boats. I know it might not seem like it for some of my posts in the best front-line sub thread, but I've put in lots of time in U-Boats and Fleet Boats. I like the Fleet Boats better for a laundry list of reasons, but that doesn't mean I don't have a blast in the U-Boat. U-Boats in SH4, where you can save a career with assurance that it will be there when you play again, are just great.

Being a good U-Boat skipper will make you a better Fleet Boat skipper and the other way around too! You learn to think U-Boat and Fleet Boat. You learn to adapt the tactics of one to the other. That was the beginning of the Dick O'Kane attack, a bullschnitzel session about adapting U-Boat Fast-90 technique to Fleet Boats. I spent three months in the U-Boat after the publication of SH4UBM. It was time well-spent.

Just don't make the mistake of a lot of people around here of judging the U-Boat by Fleet Boat standards and saying "this sucks because it doesn't work like that." Well this isn't that, THAT is that. U-Boats and Fleet Boats are different! They should stay that way. SH3 and SH4 are different. They should stay that way.

I highly recommend SH4UBM. And I highly recommend spending some U-Boat time, even if you don't think you're interested. They grow on you.

[Task Force]

Yea, ive never understood those TDC things, Now after 2 years, I just have to look at the target, think the attack over, and fire.:yep: (no math needed.) and I almost always hit. I only miss in bad weather, or when the AI does one of its magic super stops while the torpedo goes infront of it.:shifty:

[surf_ten]

RR I definately enjoyed and learned much with your Dick o'kane videos. I used the same fast 90 approach in SHIII as well, but I too needed a orientation lesson in fleet boat methodology. Since your lesson, many honorable Japanese have had to take a crash course in the use and operation of various floatational devices.

[PurpleCity]

Correct me If I'm wrong but in a Fleet boat, you can tie the periscope bearing to the TDC by enabling the position keeper. Meaning you don't have to update bearing when you fire if PK is enabled.

[Munchausen]

Correct me If I'm wrong but in a Fleet boat, you can tie the periscope bearing to the TDC by enabling the position keeper. Meaning you don't have to update bearing when you fire if PK is enabled.

:-? Incorrect. PK tracks the target's progress ... but is only as accurate as the data sent to the TDC. Over time, PK accuracy will usually degrade. It is always a good idea to take a final bearing before shooting.

One word of caution: check your target's heading after sending bearing data to the TDC. Sometimes, sending a final bearing will also send your last adjusted AOB ... not a good thing if AOB has changed.