WoW (& other mmos)

[NeonSamurai]

This is a split off from another thread, and I'm too tired write a better title...



I have to say I've never understood the draw to wow (and other mmos) other then comparing it to an addiction. The game is dull and repeditive beyond belief, and the incentives to play are addictive types (get that next level, or next item). I played it when it first came out but droped it after about 4 months. The grind in it was unreal and got worse with every expansion which keeps the addicts playing.

[kiwi_2005]

Slightly OT but I have to say I've never understood the draw to wow (and other mmos) other then comparing it to an addiction. The game is dull and repeditive beyond belief, and the incentives to play are addictive types (get that next level, or next item). I played it when it first came out but droped it after about 4 months. The grind in it was unreal and got worse with every expansion which keeps the addicts playing.
I know how you feel about wow Neon your mention it many times :) Funny that i dont find mmo's dull at all, I like the social part of it i can log in and spend hours just chatting with guild members then we might head off to raid a city or do some pvp etc., ive past the grinding part of it, soon as i turn 80 and got reasonable gear i stopped grinding. Now i just log in to chat, do a few pvp matches with guildies or we run around the gameworld being idiots. When its time to work i work, time to eat i eat, time to do the odds and ends around the house i do that to. When its time for gaming I load up Wow or any other game that interests me. I dont see it as an addiction as i dont take wow seriously like many do. Im sure some treat wow as if its there real life. What i mean when saying Fallout 3 has gotten me of wow is there was no other game that has caught my interest apart from the odd loading up SH4 now and then i needed something that gave me a reason to keep playing it. Fallout 3 has done that.

There are many that are bent on having the best gear doing the end raids, finishing all the achievments getting exalted with as many factions and the list goes on. If they play the game or any mmo this way then yes addiction will settle in before you know it. But if you play for the fun factor and log in a few hours a night or every other night then its not an addiction just a hobbie you like doing.

I should add, I belong to a great guild where we dont give a hoot that we suck badly, we suck at raiding we suck at pvp cause we dont care about the status label. We play for the laughs. We suck! :D

[NeonSamurai]

Sorry i got a bit of an axe to grind on mmo's

Ya the socialization aspect is a positive (Though that can be addictive too). I just find them totally mind numbing, it also doesn't help that most friends I've made in those games tend to be power gamers.

I don't hate all mmo's I do like tactical/militaristic games. For example i loved Planetside in beta before SOE started wrecking it right after release, I liked WWIIOL at the start thought the bugs and then the devs endlessly bending to the constant allied whines (like the "glass gun char" whine) which killed it for me. Unfortunatly there arnt very many of those kind of games, and im utterly fed up with the fantasy mmo games, particularly based on the western world (i would like a good medieval fantasy japan mmo though).

Anyhow I may split this part off to a new thread continue the debate. So feel free to respond.

[kiwi_2005]

Your probably heard of Lineage 2 they say thats a great asian mmo, ive never tried it. I use to play MUonline free mmo before wow that was ok i stuck with it for 2yrs, there's also 'Perfect World' which has nearly 250million players & is based on Chinese Mythology. So much for wow advertising its 11million:)

As you probably know their are basically 100's of Asian based MMOS out there some are total crap but now and then your stumble along a gem. Some very good free mmos as well.

Top 100 mmos
http://www.the-top-tens.com/lists/top-ten-mmorpg-games.asp

[NeonSamurai]

Lineage 2 is Chinese i believe, I mean Japanese mythology/feudal japan (ie samurai, shinobi etc). I played a couple of Chinese mythology ones before, most were free to play but had unimaginable grinds which you could offset by paying money, and yes most are sheer crap or not realy mmos.

Anyhow splitting this off

[Dowly]

And Lineage 2 is the usual dark elves etc. stuff.

I used to play tons of MMO, freeware Conquest being prolly the one I played the most, then got bored to the endless grinding (IIRC, the game was capped to lvl130 with additional 130lvls if you wanted to reborn once you capped).

Then had a break for few years and now playing Warhammer Online, which, IMO, is GREAT! Mostly because it eliminates the need to grind. Of course, you can do it if you want to, but it isnt good for leveling because in WAR, there's 2 ranks. One is the normal rank you gain by experience and the other one is called Renown Rank, which you can only gain by getting renown experience in PvP battles. The Renown Rank pretty much tells you how good gear you can use, some gear have both ranks as requirements, some only have a RR requirement.

Also, there is a 3rd bar you can fill up, the influence bar. On every chapter there is 2 bars of this kind, the public quest influence bar that is filled by doing public quest. And then there is tier influence bar, which is filled by doing PvP.

The tier influence bar and the Renown Rank are two things that makes grinding useless, as you can rank sure by grinding, but you cant get the gear from the RR and the rewards from tier influence (the rewards being very good gear).

This is why I think WAR is better than the rest I've played. Cant wait to see how it is year from now. :yep:

If you want to know more about WAR, check these interviews of the Paul Barnett himself:

Pt.1 (check the rest from the play menu thingy)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmy2OFipkyE

And here's Paul Barnett telling about the quests of WAR:
Pt.1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-15TzSoU1Y
Pt.2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9CrovsAvcg

[Falkirion]

Most of the time I've played WoW I've had a good guild with good people. Really helped to keep me interested in the game, since at times gchat could get fairly crazy with all the different twists and turns the conversation took.

I dont patricularly like the whole hardcore raiding aspect to it though, or the rep grinding. Actually got 2 exalted Northrend factions now for different reasons. One was for an epic fishing pole, the other was for a dragon mount. Aiming for a 3rd to get a giant mammoth mount too.

[Blacklight]

Ultima Online is still the best in my opinion. Regardless of the fact that it's like 10 years old and the 2D client looks cleaner and crisper than the 3D one. There's no other MMO that lets you do anywhere NEAR as much as that game lets you do.

Name another MMO where you can build your own house/castle/whatever. from scratch. Or where you can own a boat, and go fishing with your friends. Name another MMO where you can get together with your guild, bring a bunch of tables and chairs down to the lowest, most evil and mose heavily traveled dungeon to set them up and have a bake sale with stuff that you actually COOKED !
There's so many craftables in that MMO that you can really get your character looking unique. Also.. in other MMO's you're locked into your character class. In UO, If I made a warrior and decided that I wanted him to be a wizard instead, all I have to do is get him a magic book, some scrolls and start him studying and practicing.
Also, most other MMO's devolve into "Here's your first mission" "Good. You completed your mission. Go talk to this next contact for your next mission".. etc.
UO doesn't do that at all. They just drop you into the world and what you do from that point on is up to you. It's amazing what you can accomplish in that MMO with a little imagination and injenuity. :up:

My other MMO is City of Heroes/Villains. Yeah.. it's "Talk to this guy.. get mission... complete mission...talk to next guy.." but hey ! It's SUPERHEROES AND SUPERVILLAINS !!! :rock:
They've also made a lot of improvements to the game. They now have an auction market, craftables, and multiple character builds as well as the ability to go back in time to try missions that you missed in the past.

[kiwi_2005]

Most of the time I've played WoW I've had a good guild with good people. Really helped to keep me interested in the game, since at times gchat could get fairly crazy with all the different twists and turns the conversation took.

I dont patricularly like the whole hardcore raiding aspect to it though, or the rep grinding. Actually got 2 exalted Northrend factions now for different reasons. One was for an epic fishing pole, the other was for a dragon mount. Aiming for a 3rd to get a giant mammoth mount too.
So your a pvper then like myself, do you agree with what this guy is saying. He makes some good points, they Blizzard should replace their designers who think up this BS for pvp. I have full pvp gear the savage/hateful at the moment yet its total crap in pvp. So frustrating they have made pvp worse not better and thrown in a Hero class that Crowd Controls everyone.

Number 5 says its all i myself have clocked over 55000 pvp kills yet a Raider can get the pvp gear in RAIDS with not even one pvp kill now. Crazy.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14133218653&sid=1


To Blizzard 1Million thumbs down

Hey Blizz, did the title catch your attention? We all know it did, but the title is not the whole story.

Have you read the threads here lately? Have you even adequately assessed the feedback from the player base concerning the current state of PvP in your game? Are you even remotely aware or concerned with the widespread dissatisfaction with the decisions of your developers?

Let me point out to you the top 5 reasons why the PvP player base is pissed off, ok?

1. Resilience is clearly broken. We have wasted our trime collecting this "powerful" BG gear only to discover how utterly useless it is, and what a big waste of time it was to get it. How can someone with 650 resilience and 21000 HP still be critted for 13k and 2 shotted? I hate to ask this question but ... was this intended? Why did you design a game where 700 Resilience is ineffective in the Battle Grounds, yet the gear we get from the BGs gives an approximate max resilience of 700 with gems? So then you allow the Arena players to come into the BGs with their 1100 Resilience and superior gear, and destroy the BGs players? How is it that you force the Arenas on the BG players by basically saying, "Resilience not good enough for you in the BGs? Well then, play the Arenas if you want more resilience?"

And that is precisely how Resilience is broken in this game. You attempt to force the BG players into the Arenas to get better gear by purposely making the gear they get in the BGs useless as far as resilience is concerned.

Have you considered the concept that NOT EVERYONE LIKES THE ARENAS? So you penalize the BG players by giving them inadequate gear for their efforts? Is their $15.00 a month somehow worth less than an Arena player's $15.00 a month?

Clue in.

2. Damage is outrageous. I'm a Ret Paladin so I know all about it. But so does the Arcane mage, the Druid, and the Rogue. These 4 classes, as well as the Deathknight, are owning the Arenas at the expense of the hunter, priest, shaman, warrior, and warlock. You have excluded half the player base from viable competition in the Arenas. Was this intended?

3. Crowd Control is ridiculous. For years now the player base has constanly complained about the excessive loss of control of their character in PvP. So how did you respond to that? You created a new class which has the most excessive crowd control abilities of them all, and called it a "hero class." As if the CC abilities in the game were not already stupidly excessive, you then roll all those abilities into one class and make things even worse? Is making things worse also intended? Everyone knows why the DK is doing so well in the Arenas, and it's NOT because it's a damage dealing or healing class.

4. Your obsession with the Arenas is excessive. Thread after thread here on this forum clearly indicates that the VAST majority of the player base does not enjoy the Arenas at all, and in fact they would rather see some love given to the BGs. You seem to think the Arenas is all that and a bag of chips, when the reality is that you'd be lucky to see 10% of the player base actually participating in it. So what about the other 90% who pay the same money as the 10%? Oh, let me guess ... this was intended?

5. You are denying BG players epic gear for PvPing. As if this wasn't insulting to the BG players enough, you add further insult to injury by providing the epic PvP gear to PvE raiders! For example, on the Alliance side, the Silver Covenant will provide the Hateful Gladiator's Scaled Legguards for 45 Emblem of Valor! Therefore, the PvE crowd can get the top PvP gear without ever stepping inside a BG or the Arenas, yet the BG players who do nothing BUT PvP can't get that gear as a PvP reward? A PLAYER WHO HAS NEVER EVEN GOTTEN ONE SINGLE HONOR KILL CAN GET BETTER PVP GEAR THAN A BG PLAYER WITH 50,000 HONOR KILLS?

Who's "stroke of genius" was this?

Now which on of you Blizzard developers has the guts to tackle this thread and address these issues head on for the sake of the PvP player base? Or would you rather see this forum quickly become a ghost town due to player inactivity instigated from your lack of effort in addressing the concerns of the players?

From what I am seeing from the players base, and from what I am experiencing personally, all I can see so far with WotLK in regards to PvP is a massive 1 Million Thumbs Down. And I have 2 thumbs down myself.

For those of you reading this for the first time, Blizzard has "discretely" decided to lock this thread, allowing only the editing of previous posts, including this one.

HEY BLIZZARD! IS LOCKING THE THREAD THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN RESPOND TO THE TRUTH ABOUT THE POINTS I MADE ABOVE? OR DO ANY OF YOU HAVE THE GUTS TO TACKLE THE POINTS?

/signed

[Falkirion]

Nah I'm not a pvper either. I just like the social aspect to the game, I dont have the time to raid and I dont have the patience or effort to get geared to raid. I just like jumping in wow to spend some time with online friends.

[kiwi_2005]

Nah I'm not a pvper either. I just like the social aspect to the game, I dont have the time to raid and I dont have the patience or effort to get geared to raid. I just like jumping in wow to spend some time with online friends.

Yeah me too the social bit is what draws me, but sometimes i get serious (really I suck) and do some pvp. Raiding bores me.

[NeonSamurai]

I have to say pvp bores me too, gear plays way to much of a factor, so to be good at pvp (or anything in that damn game) you gotta grind your life away keeping up

[kiwi_2005]

MMO's Banned in NSW Australia. :har: This move directly affects games such as World of Warcraft (http://au.pc.ign.com/objects/016/016985.html), Warhammer Online, Age of Conan and Pirates of the Burning Seas – titles that don't contain a single-player experience, and therefore did not apply for classification. The previous understanding was that online games, by their nature, fell outside of traditional national classifications – a loophole that the Classifications Board want stitched up.

http://au.games.ign.com/articles/950/950795p1.html


Australia, February 3, 2009 - In a shocking move this morning, the Sydney Morning Herald (http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/biztech/no-classification-online-games-legal-minefield/2009/02/03/1233423203018.html) has reported that Australian retailers will no longer be allowed to sell any online game that has not been classified by the Australian Classification Board.

This move directly affects games such as World of Warcraft (http://au.pc.ign.com/objects/016/016985.html), Warhammer Online, Age of Conan and Pirates of the Burning Seas – titles that don't contain a single-player experience, and therefore did not apply for classification. The previous understanding was that online games, by their nature, fell outside of traditional national classifications – a loophole that the Classifications Board want stitched up.

According to the report, a spokesperson for NSW Attorney-General John Hatzistergos said the NSW Classification Enforcement Act prohibited publishers and retailers from selling unclassified computer games. The spokesperson also encouraged individuals to report any retailer or individual found operating outside of the Classification Act of 1995.

"The NSW legislation covers computer games bought online as well as those bought in stores, and treats single, multi-player and online games the same way," he said.

Australian police will be responsible for enforcing the penalties, which range from $1100 to $11,000 for individuals and/or 12 months' imprisonment, and approximately double those figures for corporations.

[darius359au]

MMO's Banned in NSW Australia. :har: This move directly affects games such as World of Warcraft (http://au.pc.ign.com/objects/016/016985.html), Warhammer Online, Age of Conan and Pirates of the Burning Seas – titles that don't contain a single-player experience, and therefore did not apply for classification. The previous understanding was that online games, by their nature, fell outside of traditional national classifications – a loophole that the Classifications Board want stitched up.

http://au.games.ign.com/articles/950/950795p1.html


Australia, February 3, 2009 - In a shocking move this morning, the Sydney Morning Herald (http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/biztech/no-classification-online-games-legal-minefield/2009/02/03/1233423203018.html) has reported that Australian retailers will no longer be allowed to sell any online game that has not been classified by the Australian Classification Board.

This move directly affects games such as World of Warcraft (http://au.pc.ign.com/objects/016/016985.html), Warhammer Online, Age of Conan and Pirates of the Burning Seas – titles that don't contain a single-player experience, and therefore did not apply for classification. The previous understanding was that online games, by their nature, fell outside of traditional national classifications – a loophole that the Classifications Board want stitched up.

According to the report, a spokesperson for NSW Attorney-General John Hatzistergos said the NSW Classification Enforcement Act prohibited publishers and retailers from selling unclassified computer games. The spokesperson also encouraged individuals to report any retailer or individual found operating outside of the Classification Act of 1995.

"The NSW legislation covers computer games bought online as well as those bought in stores, and treats single, multi-player and online games the same way," he said.

Australian police will be responsible for enforcing the penalties, which range from $1100 to $11,000 for individuals and/or 12 months' imprisonment, and approximately double those figures for corporations.


Funny thing is , this would only effect NSW ,so I can see it now , the ACT starts selling MMORPG's as well as porn to people from over the border in NSW :rotfl:

Course , the real reason for this is that the NSW government has racked up a huge debt through ineptitude, and now their hunting around for ways to squeeze people and businesses to fix their problems:nope:

[OneToughHerring]

Used to play WoW for a while, what a load of ****. It was like a MUD with better grafix, boring and repetitious. After that I kinda got fed up with games for a pretty long while, only recently gone back but with mostly military RTS (the close combat-series and add-ons) and strategy & simulations like SH3 that I can play and forget when I feel like it.