Ijn Bb Kongo

[ZeeWolf]

UPDATE:The Battle Cruiser Kongo is complete and ready for download.

Click here to download ZeeWolfs_Kongo_MOD.zip (http://files.filefront.com/ZeeWolfs+Kongo+MODzip/;13182403;/fileinfo.html)



This Mod is compatible with SH4 V1.5- Run Silent Run Deep Campaign and Operation Monsun
This Mod includes new Kongo texture for IJN-Kongo. One texture was added to the dat file
for use with the deck and miscellaneous 3d mesh components. And some new 3d mesh components
were added that replaces the old.


ZeeWolf

The Battle Cruiser Kongo is undergoing a drydock inspection and re-fit and of
course a new and better paint job. Having added a new separate image for the
deck and some extensive UV rearrangement she is close to a redeployment date
and of course a download date.

ZeeWolf
.IJN BB/BC Kongo in Kure Gray
http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k442/autopilot_2008/IJNBB_Kongo4.jpg
http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k442/autopilot_2008/IJNBB_Kongo5.jpg
http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k442/autopilot_2008/IJNBB_Kongo6.jpg
http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k442/autopilot_2008/IJNBB_Kongo1.jpg
http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k442/autopilot_2008/IJNBB_Kongo2.jpg
http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k442/autopilot_2008/IJNBB_Kongo3.jpg

[miner1436]

Yes, Kongo has always had problems, messed up damage model, props not mapped to channel 2, inaccurate superstructure and lots of blue paint. Here is a link to what it's super structure should look like. Don't know why they didn't make the pagoda open like Fuso and Ise.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Kongo1944.png

Good work with the paint job:up:

[Webster]

glad to here its going along quickly for you, this is such a long time missing fix for the game.

thank you for doing this :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :yep:

[ZeeWolf]

Yes, Kongo has always had problems, messed up damage model, props not mapped to channel 2, inaccurate superstructure and lots of blue paint. Here is a link to what it's super structure should look like. Don't know why they didn't make the pagoda open like Fuso and Ise.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/Kongo1944.png

Good work with the paint job:up:

Thanks, that link is great. I needed a clear depiction of the paint
details and that image is perfect . I agree I'll checkout the damage model later after some
corrections that this ship deserves. The adding the separate image
will help greatly in custom skins. Anymore help with resource links
would be appreciated.:D

ZeeWolf

[miner1436]

No need for damage fix: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=135764

[LukeFF]

Looking good!

[LukeFF]

Anymore help with resource links
would be appreciated.:D

This is a good one:

http://www.shipcamouflage.com/images/Ijn2_sheet.jpg

Based on that, you might want to darken the hull/superstructure color to something more closer to the Kure paint chip.

[Orion2012]

Looking good. Keep up the work man!

[ZeeWolf]

glad to here its going along quickly for you, this is such a long time missing fix for the game.

thank you for doing this :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :yep:

You betcha Webster, I'm kinda getting into it. This is a very interesting ship as well
as a pretty good model. It looks like the devs didn't have the time that this ship
needed so they may have rush it. But I'll do what I can to get it looking good.

ZW

[ZeeWolf]

Anymore help with resource links
would be appreciated.:D

This is a good one:

http://www.shipcamouflage.com/images/Ijn2_sheet.jpg

Based on that, you might want to darken the hull/superstructure color to something more closer to the Kure paint chip.



Hey LukeFF that's cool man, I needed that:D I just finished darkening the hull
to the image from miner but the IJN color chart is fantastic I still have some more
stuff I am doing.


ZW

[virtualpender]

Excellent job! Look forward to this very much.

[tater]

That is GREAT.

I have already fixed some issues with Kongo, it is in the new RSRDC. I have added nodes to apply the radars she got over time, the director works, etc.

With new paint. Wow!

tater

[Webster]

glad to here its going along quickly for you, this is such a long time missing fix for the game.

thank you for doing this :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :yep:

You betcha Webster, I'm kinda getting into it. This is a very interesting ship as well
as a pretty good model. It looks like the devs didn't have the time that this ship
needed so they may have rush it. But I'll do what I can to get it looking good.

ZW

i didnt know you could fix the damage zones as well, so if you can and if you want another challenge, the shokaku carrier has a terrible damage model. its like the thing sits on a balloon under the bridge and it rolls over rather than sinking as it should, if you think you might be interested in it look here at an old thread i had about it: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=137911

i understand if you are too busy with other stuff, but if you could this would be another huge fix for the game.

webster

[miner1436]

I guess I could give the 3D model a face lift if you guys could help me make the occlusion map once im done.

[tater]

All the warships are getting the once over by observer.

I have put every single US sub attack on a warship into a spreadsheet so we can see the really important stuff, like how many hits various classes survived, and how badly damaged they were.

IJN CAs seem to be the most tough, one survived 4 torpedoes in one attack, and none were sunk with fewer than 4. Kong a was what, 3 hits (my spreadsheet is on my other computer).

[Webster]

All the warships are getting the once over by observer.

I have put every single US sub attack on a warship into a spreadsheet so we can see the really important stuff, like how many hits various classes survived, and how badly damaged they were.

IJN CAs seem to be the most tough, one survived 4 torpedoes in one attack, and none were sunk with fewer than 4. Kong a was what, 3 hits (my spreadsheet is on my other computer).

but its useless to me unless its released as a stock 1.5 stand alone fix mod because i dont use RFB

[ZeeWolf]

glad to here its going along quickly for you, this is such a long time missing fix for the game.

thank you for doing this :up: :up: :up: :up: :up: :yep:

You betcha Webster, I'm kinda getting into it. This is a very interesting ship as well
as a pretty good model. It looks like the devs didn't have the time that this ship
needed so they may have rush it. But I'll do what I can to get it looking good.

ZW

i didnt know you could fix the damage zones as well, so if you can and if you want another challenge, the shokaku carrier has a terrible damage model. its like the thing sits on a balloon under the bridge and it rolls over rather than sinking as it should, if you think you might be interested in it look here at an old thread i had about it: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=137911

i understand if you are too busy with other stuff, but if you could this would be another huge fix for the game.

webster

I'll check that out later Webster. I might be like the USS CA North Carolina, it sank
so fast it was laughable. It may take some time, I can't remeber off the top of
my head all I did to correct the North Carolina but I think I changed it's zon file
entirely with another ship that was comparable. But I fixed it.

ZW

[ZeeWolf]

That is GREAT.

I have already fixed some issues with Kongo, it is in the new RSRDC. I have added nodes to apply the radars she got over time, the director works, etc.

With new paint. Wow!

tater

I would imagine all you would have to do is to add the nodes
again to the dat file as raw chunks. But the my fix will be
1.5 stock compatible.:yep:

ZeeWolf

[tater]

It's less work to take just the DM stuff out of RFB than it is to redo every single zone on every ship, AND likely change weapons damages and radii for every weapon, IMO.

One requires tons of S3D and text file work, the other involves making a copy of RFB and delting files that are not related to damage.

YMMV.

[LukeFF]

IJN CAs seem to be the most tough, one survived 4 torpedoes in one attack, and none were sunk with fewer than 4. Kong a was what, 3 hits (my spreadsheet is on my other computer).

Wasn't Kako sunk by 3 torpedoes from the S-44?

[tater]

Kako claimed 4 hits, but the TROM says 3 hits.

I need to update my spreadsheet, it was straight typing from Alden, that's why I was saying if anything the numbers would be high since claimed hits were higher than real hits, likely. Alden was more concerned with confirming the results of the attacks and targets, and only lists the shots fired/hits from the patrol reports.

The most hits survived by a BB, however, was 2, and the fewest to sink was also 3.

So CAs were 4 survived, with one sunk by 3 (corrected).

I need to double check the lighter ships, I put all in fron Alden, and checked starting with the big boys vs the troms. Need to check all.

tater

[Webster]

Kako claimed 4 hits, but the TROM says 3 hits.

I need to update my spreadsheet, it was straight typing from Alden, that's why I was saying if anything the numbers would be high since claimed hits were higher than real hits, likely. Alden was more concerned with confirming the results of the attacks and targets, and only lists the shots fired/hits from the patrol reports.

The most hits survived by a BB, however, was 2, and the fewest to sink was also 3.

So CAs were 4 survived, with one sunk by 3 (corrected).

I need to double check the lighter ships, I put all in fron Alden, and checked starting with the big boys vs the troms. Need to check all.

tater

shouldnt that be the other way around? a cruiser should be easier to sink than a BB

[miner1436]

Work has started on the model.
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/7320/sh4img20090121153024828kv2.jpg

[tater]

Kako claimed 4 hits, but the TROM says 3 hits.

I need to update my spreadsheet, it was straight typing from Alden, that's why I was saying if anything the numbers would be high since claimed hits were higher than real hits, likely. Alden was more concerned with confirming the results of the attacks and targets, and only lists the shots fired/hits from the patrol reports.

The most hits survived by a BB, however, was 2, and the fewest to sink was also 3.

So CAs were 4 survived, with one sunk by 3 (corrected).

I need to double check the lighter ships, I put all in fron Alden, and checked starting with the big boys vs the troms. Need to check all.

tater

shouldnt that be the other way around? a cruiser should be easier to sink than a BB

I didn't make that up, that is what happened in RL.

The most hits survived by a BB was only that there were few attacks on BBs. No BB was torpedoed by a sub with 4, so they might have survived. More CAs were attacked, so there is more data. <shrug>

No akizuki DD hit with 1 fish sank, for example, and there were several hits like that.

[Webster]

well i feel it is more realistic to base the in game results you get to match the ships class, construction, armor, and design of the super structure.

i discount the real life log results for the reason i feel they are not a good enough sample to get a true image of the averages and often the record keeping was reporting what they did and not necessarilly what was needed. but i still think they give you a good guide to follow.

even if it was true in real life results, i dont want the game to have a CL need more torps to sink than a BB. this is where reality should yeild to the game having a properly balanced feeling.

[tater]

Variability was reality. Why would you think a CV with a fixed DM would always be harder to sink than a BB, BTW? Many CVs sank with 1 fish, usually due to uncontrolled fires.

As for the non-Shokakus taking many, I capsize them and they sink with virtually any single hit other than the extreme bow/stern. Any hit. Actually, IMO the hardest to sink I think is Taiyo (from back when I was testing her).

The goal for any such DM mod should be as much variability as possible since in RL, some ships took quite a bit of damage and survived. Shinano, in fact, could very well have survived. So if a given clas never sunk to one hit, but other classes (similar) did, then it seems reasonable that it should be possible for a 1-hit sinking. If the average was 3, then so be it.

I guess I'm totally against pulling chances out of thin air, they must be calibrated to something, and RL is it.

[tater]

CVEs were bizarre. Chuyo took 4 without sinking, Unyo took 3. No CVE sank with 1 hit that we know of, since the fewest hits on a sinking were 2. So I'd say a 1-hit should be possible, a two hit pretty likely. That said, absorbing 3-4 should be possible, too, if very rare for 4 (ideally).

Some CVs took 4 hits, others sank with 1, lol.

[Webster]

these are my average results for stock 1.5 with no mods based on a single mission target test of stationary sub shooting stationary targets using auto targeting to get identical hit locations each time. each ship was sunk 5 times to get the average results.

warship stock ************************************************** ****************************
yamato 10
kongo 6
ise battleship 4
fuso battleship 2
fleet carriers 3 (shokaku just 1 due to bad damage model)
heavy cruisers 3
escort carriers 2
light cruiser 2
seaplane tender 2
destroyers 1-2

merchant stock ************************************************** ****************************
Hog island 3
large modern oiler 3
medium old comp 2
large old split 2
large modern comp 2
small old oiler 2
old medium oiler 2
small passenger 1
old liner 1
modern liner 1
small old merchant 1
medium modern comp 2
medium split 2
medium old comp 2
small modern comp 1

as you can see, except for the fuso looking a little weak, the stock settings look pretty balanced to me and that is why i want them to stay balanced that way.

use my torpedo test missions if you want to check my results http://files.filefront.com/WEBSTERs+Torpedo+Test+Missions/;11090242;/fileinfo.html

[tater]

Shooting the same place is a bogus test if you understand the DM.

The stock DM has HITPOINTS.

Say, 600 for a BB (it's 500 or 600, can't remember). The range for a torp is like 170-230 or something. You could hit the tip of the prop that many times, and they'd still sink. Each hit subtracts HP, when it hits zero, BOOM.

BTW, I'm surprised you found a CL that took an average of 2 fish, they always sink with 1 for me as reliably as DDs. Funny that Kongo takes 6 when the real thing sank with 3, lol.

[LukeFF]

Kako claimed 4 hits, but the TROM says 3 hits.

I need to update my spreadsheet, it was straight typing from Alden, that's why I was saying if anything the numbers would be high since claimed hits were higher than real hits, likely. Alden was more concerned with confirming the results of the attacks and targets, and only lists the shots fired/hits from the patrol reports.

Hmmpf, you're going to find this funny, but the S-44's skipper also claimed 4 hits:

"Heard four torpedoes explode starting 35 seconds after firing first torpedo. Having heard torpedo explosions at short range before, there was no doubt about these. The surprising thing is that all four hit - sure is good to have a long target to shoot at."

:rotfl:

[Webster]

Shooting the same place is a bogus test if you understand the DM.

The stock DM has HITPOINTS.



then you are excluding anyone and everyone who is using auto targeting to play the game because auto targeting always targets the same area. its not about me understanding the damage modeling in the game. i do understand how it works but disregarding the damage caused by a second torpedo to the same spot is not realistic either.

if you dont hit the exact same spot with every test then you have no repeatable results so your test is not based on anything reliable. different compartments, bulkheads, and superstructures will be hit so nothing will be the same as the last test.

your in game results will always vary because of game conditions so for this reason and i understand this so all my test shows is the average results against ships armor levels and then other variables such as torpedo placements can increase or decrease the effective results.

[tater]

Based on hitpoints Yamato should be much harder to sink than in game since the hitpoints get removed by bombs, and she was hit by as many or more bombs than torpedoes.

As for auto-targeting... yeah, at one level I don't care in the least about that. Auto-target folks can always learn to crank the spread dial between shots. Designing the damage system to only be right when the shots all go through the same hole is less realistic than random hits, since hitting the same spot is the special case, not the other way around (there is only one way to do that, and infinite ways to NOT put them in the same hole).

It's pointless to argue this, but the stock game is every bit as broken as the stock campaign---if they couldn't be bothered to notice that there are 5 times as many Akizuki DDs in the opening month of the war alone than ever existed (and NONE existed during that first month of the war, either), why would you expect any fidelity in the DM?

All of this stuff takes huge amounts of testing, and they simply did not have time to test, they were barely given time to throw it out the door.

I'm not religiously attached to a no-hitpoint damage system, but the idea that any X hits, anywhere on the target should make it explode and sink is silly.

All this revolves around complaints about RFB that don't make sense to me, because I sink ships with the same number of fish that you claim they should sink with. I'm not some TDC guru, either, I miss alot, and as I said, I'm happy to just hit the ship at all, while I aim as a spread usually, I'm in no way aiming at particular spots, just trying to get as many hits as possible.

Put it this way, if you are running the stock campaign, the number of hits to sink should be the least of your complaints, the 4 CL-sized akizukis with crew skill set to low-grade moron escorting 4 tramp steamers... THAT should be your major complaint, lol.

[Webster]

The Battle Cruiser Kongo is undergoing a drydock inspection and re-fit and of
course a new and better paint job. Having added a new separate image for the
deck and some extensive UV rearrangement she is close to a redeployment date
and of course a download date.

ZeeWolf


just wondering how things were going with this fix? hope its going ok

[ivank]

Work has started on the model.
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/7320/sh4img20090121153024828kv2.jpg

What are those?

[tater]

BTW, my Real IJN mod (in RSRDC right now) has Kongo already fixed up a bit, though NOT her textures. I added nodes to place radars on her, for example.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/tatersw/SH4/kongo.jpg

[miner1436]

What are those?

Skylights I think, im taking a break from kongo, trying to figure out how to detach faces on the new Nagato mod.

http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=41984902ij2.jpg

[ZeeWolf]

Hi guys, thought I'd give you an update:)

ZeeWolf

.
http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k442/autopilot_2008/IJNBB_Kongo7.jpg

http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k442/autopilot_2008/IJNBB_Kongo8.jpg

[tater]

Nice, what did you use for the mainmast change? (funnels look nice as well).

:up:

[ZeeWolf]

Nice, what did you use for the mainmast change? (funnels look nice as well).

:up:

Thanks tater, I redone the mast after I did some snooping around on the web for
details and images.

ZeeWolf

[tater]

You made the model yourself? Excellent!

[tater]

One suggestion:

Make sure that the Type 13 radar you have installed on the mast is not fixed to the mast model. That way it can be off earlier in the war, and on once Kongo gets her air-search radar.

The same goes for the type 21. Both radars are already in game, they just needed to be added to the models. Note that you can do this in the eqp file if you place Y nodes.

tater

[ZeeWolf]

One suggestion:

Make sure that the Type 13 radar you have installed on the mast is not fixed to the mast model. That way it can be off earlier in the war, and on once Kongo gets her air-search radar.

The same goes for the type 21. Both radars are already in game, they just needed to be added to the models. Note that you can do this in the eqp file if you place Y nodes.

tater

ok, will do

ZeeWolf

[tater]

You can alwats have it as a separate 3d model within the dat, that's NP.

What I did with the Real IJN mod (in RSRDC, or I can up Kongo for ya) is placed the type 13 where I wanted, then placed a Y node at the same coords. The, dumped the radar. Now, int he eqp file, the radars can be off, then on as the date changes automatically.

I did this for most IJN ships in RIJN. I didn't do a few for want of either better late war masts, or a good bracket to install it.

Kongo
also gets a Type 21 on top of the pagoda gun director. Same deal, a Y node right on the top surface of the director, then add the type 21 in the eqp file (the type 13 and 21 radars are in guns_radars.dat.

Note that I have added a few variabt versions of those radars, too. Mostly ersatz brackets since I lack the 3d chops to build them from scratch.

<S>

tater

[LukeFF]

Looking superb! Me likes that new paint job as well. :|\\

[ZeeWolf]

You can alwats have it as a separate 3d model within the dat, that's NP.

What I did with the Real IJN mod (in RSRDC, or I can up Kongo for ya) is placed the type 13 where I wanted, then placed a Y node at the same coords. The, dumped the radar. Now, int he eqp file, the radars can be off, then on as the date changes automatically.

I did this for most IJN ships in RIJN. I didn't do a few for want of either better late war masts, or a good bracket to install it.

Kongo
also gets a Type 21 on top of the pagoda gun director. Same deal, a Y node right on the top surface of the director, then add the type 21 in the eqp file (the type 13 and 21 radars are in guns_radars.dat.

Note that I have added a few variabt versions of those radars, too. Mostly ersatz brackets since I lack the 3d chops to build them from scratch.

<S>

tater

Hey that would be cool if you could upload it for me. I am at the point now I could
roll in your changes and take advantage of your help.:)

ZeeWolf

[ZeeWolf]

Looking superb! Me likes that new paint job as well. :|\\

Thanks LukeFF

ZeeWolf

[tater]

No problem. I'll put it together for you later today.

[chrysanthos]

nothing works here....

[mad]

Is there a new link somewhere?

[AOTD_MadMax]

Great work but the link is dead !

Regards

Maddy

[chrysanthos]

zeewolf can you send me a readme on how to fix the damage zones in the old kongo? i am to useless to make it alone:(

[Chrisi078]

link is dead

[baronfrost]

Hello, please post a new link, and will this mod work with Op Monsun ?

[Webster]

try a PM to Zeewolf asking him to fix the link but that doesnt get a reply or if a link isnt found from any other source then you can still get it by just taking the BBKongo file from the "sea" folder found in my GFO mod and add it to your game

[Taeny]

Does anyone still have Kongo mod with career?