View Full Version : About time, but better later than never (Border Patrol Agents sentences commuted)
Sooner, of course would have been better
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/01/19/bush-commutes-sentences-border-patrol-agents/
Stealth Hunter
01-19-09, 06:58 PM
What a stupid thing to be put in prison for. Shows how much amnesty our government is willing to show for illegal Mexicans, even if they're drug runners.:nope:
Our political values are so backwards that it's painful.
baggygreen
01-19-09, 07:11 PM
SH, I don't always agree with you, but on this one i do:up:
Seems as tho both the US and Aus legal systems favour the criminal's rights over the "victim's", for want of a better word in this instance
SteamWake
01-19-09, 07:26 PM
Im always amused when the media brands these two as 'accused of a shooting'. All they did was shoot him in the ass.
Probably one of the best moves Bush has done while in office.
Im always amused when the media brands these two as 'accused of a shooting'. All they did was shoot him in the ass.
They did a little more than that, including trying to cover up the crime.
Stealth Hunter
01-19-09, 10:30 PM
Should we care? The guy they shot was a drug runner illegally crossing the border from Mexico...
Zachstar
01-19-09, 10:41 PM
For trying to cover it up they deserve far longer but indeed it was way too long.
I could care less about a drug runner being shot. What I do care about is the agents being responsible and accountable. Because if they don't the bleeding hearts get more ammo to tear the defense of the border to shreds.
Aramike
01-20-09, 12:54 AM
Screw this noise. They should have been pardoned ... free and clear.
Their only crime was capping the guy in the ass instead of the head.
Zachstar
01-20-09, 01:26 AM
That has nothing to do with it compared to trying to sweep it.
That can't be tolerated PERIOD. While a decade for doing so is extreme. There is no reason to get off scot free for such actions.
Border Patrol agents have enough to worry about before bozos start getting accountability departments attention.
SteamWake
01-21-09, 11:48 AM
Here is a small taste of what these guys are dealing with...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,481084,00.html
AVGWarhawk
01-21-09, 12:06 PM
Screw this noise. They should have been pardoned ... free and clear.
Their only crime was capping the guy in the ass instead of the head.
Totally agree. Cover up or not, illegal, in the USA, pushing drugs that will end up in kids hands...should have popped him twice in the head.
Tchocky
01-21-09, 06:16 PM
Totally agree. Cover up or not, illegal, in the USA, pushing drugs that will end up in kids hands...should have popped him twice in the head.
That's really disturbing. Cops can break the law anytime they like? Shoot whoever they want?
Shooting an unarmed man who is running away from you is a crime. A serious one. Does the fact that this person was a suspected criminal at the time make a difference?
Captain Vlad
01-21-09, 07:43 PM
Shooting an unarmed man who is running away from you is a crime.
Actually, it isn't always. Shooting an unarmed suspect, even if fleeing, is quite reasonably permitted if the police office has strong reason to believe that, by letting the suspect escape, he'll inflict serious harm on another.
IE: If the guy you just arrested on that serial murder case tries to run, it's okay to shoot him.
Zachstar
01-21-09, 10:10 PM
No what is disturbing here is the lack of attention being given to the cover up.
The shooting has NOTHING to do with it. The cover up has everything to do with it.
What do you think accounts for a serious lack of respect for those who protect the border? Shootings? Nobody gives a hell about that. But when people feel that agents can get away from hiding what they have done they panic and feel the .gov is out to get them and hide it. Conspiracy theories fly and respect for the border patrol drops.
For petes sakes try to be rational if you are going to be deep right wing.
Jimbuna
01-22-09, 10:31 AM
Here is a small taste of what these guys are dealing with...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,481084,00.html
Charming I must say :nope:
Totally agree. Cover up or not, illegal, in the USA, pushing drugs that will end up in kids hands..
Seems like this is a rather large assumption to stake taking a persons life on...
AVGWarhawk
01-22-09, 01:13 PM
Totally agree. Cover up or not, illegal, in the USA, pushing drugs that will end up in kids hands..
Seems like this is a rather large assumption to stake taking a persons life on...
Does it?
Ramos and Compean were sentenced in connection with the shooting of Osvaldo Aldrete Davila, who was shot in the buttocks while trying to flee along the Texas border. He admitted smuggling several hundred pounds of marijuana on the day he was shot and pleaded guilty last year to drug charges related to two other smuggling attempts.
The guy was making a career out of it. Assumption that it will end up in kids hands? Your not serious are you? Recreational drug use is just for adults? The dealers ask for license to verify age now?
Tchocky
01-22-09, 01:14 PM
Yes he was smuggling drugs, but do you try to kill him?
AVGWarhawk
01-22-09, 01:17 PM
Yes he was smuggling drugs, but do you try to kill him?
They thought he was armed...so they say.
Drug use dated today
http://www.wmicentral.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=20244161&BRD=2264&PAG=461&dept_id=505965&rfi=6
Jimbuna
01-22-09, 01:35 PM
Never did like the pushers (scum of the earth)....in fact, always looked forward to bumping into them.
But the response should always be proportionate and measured.
AVGWarhawk
01-22-09, 01:44 PM
Never did like the pushers (scum of the earth)....in fact, always looked forward to bumping into them.
But the response should always be proportionate and measured.
Yes, equal force. I guess they figured that out after and decided on the cover up.
Jimbuna
01-22-09, 01:50 PM
Never did like the pushers (scum of the earth)....in fact, always looked forward to bumping into them.
But the response should always be proportionate and measured.
Yes, equal force. I guess they figured that out after and decided on the cover up.
Would you be kind enough to explain....It's probably me suffering from a sober moment but I don't understand what you mean :hmm:
AVGWarhawk
01-22-09, 02:24 PM
Never did like the pushers (scum of the earth)....in fact, always looked forward to bumping into them.
But the response should always be proportionate and measured.
Yes, equal force. I guess they figured that out after and decided on the cover up.
Would you be kind enough to explain....It's probably me suffering from a sober moment but I don't understand what you mean :hmm:
As you say proportionate and measured as to the response, I know it as equal force. Fight fire with fire. In other words, if a perp is putting up his fists to fight and the cop pulls out his gun and plants one in his cranium, that is not equal force. It would be excessive force in this case. Excessive force in this particular instance looks to be the problem, knowing they would be in trouble as a result, fabrication of stories commenced. Cover up.
Does it?
Ramos and Compean were sentenced in connection with the shooting of Osvaldo Aldrete Davila, who was shot in the buttocks while trying to flee along the Texas border. He admitted smuggling several hundred pounds of marijuana on the day he was shot and pleaded guilty last year to drug charges related to two other smuggling attempts.
The guy was making a career out of it. Assumption that it will end up in kids hands? Your not serious are you? Recreational drug use is just for adults? The dealers ask for license to verify age now?
The point is that you can't show the slightest proof that this person has put any marijuana in the hands of a child and even if you could a teenager smoking a joint is hardly something to start summarily executing people over.
After all alcohol is a drug too and underage drinking is a much bigger problem than underage marijuana use, so why don't we just start executing every teamster that has hauled a load of beer? How would that be different?
The fact is that these two agents went over the line and they deserved the convictions they received. President Bush agreed with that which is why he commuted their sentence instead of pardoning them of their crime.
Jimbuna
01-22-09, 05:50 PM
Never did like the pushers (scum of the earth)....in fact, always looked forward to bumping into them.
But the response should always be proportionate and measured.
Yes, equal force. I guess they figured that out after and decided on the cover up.
Would you be kind enough to explain....It's probably me suffering from a sober moment but I don't understand what you mean :hmm:
As you say proportionate and measured as to the response, I know it as equal force. Fight fire with fire. In other words, if a perp is putting up his fists to fight and the cop pulls out his gun and plants one in his cranium, that is not equal force. It would be excessive force in this case. Excessive force in this particular instance looks to be the problem, knowing they would be in trouble as a result, fabrication of stories commenced. Cover up.
Right....understand you now :yep:
Stealth Hunter
01-22-09, 06:05 PM
The fact is that these two agents went over the line and they deserved the convictions they received.
So shooting an illegal alien who resisted arrest by running from the border patrol with over 800 pounds of marijuana in his van is crossing the line?
The funny thing is Davila claimed his civil rights were violated... even though he wasn't a United States citizen and had to be given a visiting visa so he could legally stay in the country during the trial.:roll:
So shooting an illegal alien who resisted arrest by running from the border patrol with over 800 pounds of marijuana in his van is crossing the line?
Yes it is, and the courts as well as the last Chief Executive feel that way too.
The funny thing is Davila claimed his civil rights were violated... even though he wasn't a United States citizen and had to be given a visiting visa so he could legally stay in the country during the trial.:roll:
It's funny that foreigners have civil rights? You think they shouldn't?
Captain Vlad
01-22-09, 06:48 PM
I personally think that the argument that these fellows used reasonable force is iffy, but can't be completely discounted. If they thought he was armed, then, in their minds, he might've been seen as a danger to others and (potentially) lethal force was suitable to halt his escape. If he had a reputation as a dangerous criminal, the same reasoning could apply. But, and correct me if I'm wrong, he wasn't known as a dangerous man, and though they say they thought he was armed, at no point did he do anything but try and flee.
So if you believe the border patrol agents, they did they right thing by shooting. If you don't, they didn't. But then you get to the fact that they attempted to cover up the incident, which leads me to believe that they're not being entirely truthful.
It might've helped their case had the guy been smuggling something besides pot, which plenty of folks feel should be legal anyway.
As for civil rights for aliens...if you're in this country you're under our protection as far as I'm concerned. Unless you are trying to harm the country or someone who lives in it.
Stealth Hunter
01-22-09, 06:52 PM
The funny thing is Davila claimed his civil rights were violated... even though he wasn't a United States citizen and had to be given a visiting visa so he could legally stay in the country during the trial.:roll:
It's funny that foreigners have civil rights? You think they shouldn't?
It's funny that illegal aliens have American civil rights, because they're not citizens.
Stealth Hunter
01-22-09, 06:53 PM
So shooting an illegal alien who resisted arrest by running from the border patrol with over 800 pounds of marijuana in his van is crossing the line?
Yes it is, and the courts as well as the last Chief Executive feel that way too.
Wow...:-?
Again, this just goes to show how backwards our political structure is. We're easy on illegal aliens smuggling drugs across the border, but we let out cries of outrage when someone attacks one of these guys.:nope:
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