What might this be...? Screenshots included

[Hoggorm]

Hi all,

Just got DW in the mail today, and I see that I will need to print the .pdf manual before I can get started...

Is there any tutorials awailable somewhere that a newbe like myself can use to try a mission or two? Just to get a quickstart.

While testing the sim I discovered these boats, and wonder why they are displayed like that?

#1:
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=5ny2n3t0m1d&thumb=5

#2:
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=nonwullzyyh&thumb=5

Thanks for answers!

[Kapitan]

Your playing with show truth off the 2nd one the wire frame is a possible contact plotted onto the nav map by the TMA crew, it updates when more sensors or course changes or a solution changes, which leads me to think you also have auto TMA selected.

The first one a boghamma is a motor gunboat north korea posses them and also hand grenades they are fast attack craft.

[Kapitan]

There is a few on you tube theres plenty of manuals about.

some useful sites

www.subguru.com (http://www.subguru.com)

also see my signature for the commanders accademy dive centre they are real good also.

[Hoggorm]

Thanks!

Your right :)

[Blacklight]

Check out www.subguru.com (http://www.subguru.com)

In the Downloads section are a LOT of informative guides.

Also, if you want to make the sim more realistic, patch the game up to verion 1.04 and then download the LuftWolf and Amizaur's Weapons and Sensors Realism Mod (LWAMI) Version 3.08 (http://www.subguru.com/DW_missions/LWAMI_308_Full.zip)(LWAMI mod). It adds a lot more units, and adjusts things to more realistic specs. It also fixes a number of inconsistancies in the stock version. It makes a big difference in gameplay.

Both the 1.04 patch and the LWAMI mod are right next to each other in the downloads section on the Subguru site. :up:

[Theta Sigma]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABwAAAAOCAYAAAA 8E3wEAAAABmJLR0QA/wD/AP+gvaeTAAAACXBIWXMAAAsTAAALEwEAmpwYAAAAB3RJTUUH1Q UUDyoqJjAqRwAAAN1JREFUOMu1lMkVwyAMBYe0JGpCNUFNVk3k 4AUwxPGS+ILxkzX8jyTH/Sfu9nrmJ3cXlnMASyWRPwd2d5XlHCBZn1BthcbRAdxTZQDI8k3 mQzg11rhF+QZ9jdNOcQib6GFQYJYgCFucSRf6GsLU6wEY5yubT FqF2yq1vRwr3INXdQUWG+je1pELX4ED1wDyRAR0WfuAA9gloIT yvsFMIMgYInYRqF6rO9Sqz9qkO5ilyo0o3YBwJ+6vrdQonxWUQ llhXeHcb/wabMPkP2n81ocAIoLZrMqn/4y2RwP8DcQ+d6rT9ATiAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC


Then if you're really adventurous, you might want to try some of the recent mods like Alfa Tau and Reinforce Alert (RA). I'd advise a backup of your game folder first, though.

[Hoggorm]

I'm still looking for a tutorial that I can follow in game. "Press this, now do this, watch this" and so on. I believe there was something like that in the 688(I) Hunter Killer manual years ago... Can't seem to find it in DW, and that means I must read the complete manual before I can start learning while in the game?

I'm very interested in the highest realism possible, so I'll check out the "LuftWolf and Amizaur's Weapons and Sensors Realism Mod (LWAMI) Version 3.08". Thanks!

What mods are "must have"? I see there are a lot of sound mods. Besides the LWAMI mod, what should I download and install.

Thanks!

[Dr.Sid]

Generally, LWAMI is the one mod to rule them all. All others are just cosmetic features.

As for manual .. focus on one platform, read it at once (it's not that much text) .. and don't worry about jumping into some easy mission. Use 'show truth' and learn to control the platform and fire weapons first, then go for sensors.

[goldorak]

Generally, LWAMI is the one mod to rule them all. All others are just cosmetic features.

As for manual .. focus on one platform, read it at once (it's not that much text) .. and don't worry about jumping into some easy mission. Use 'show truth' and learn to control the platform and fire weapons first, then go for sensors.


Now hold on a second Dr. Sid. Saying that RA and AT3 are only cosmetic improvements is not really true. These 2 mods, particularly RA are much much better than lwami ever was. Not only because of the new playable units, but also because the ai in RA behaves much more realistically (that is until you finish comsubsim ;) ).

[Hoggorm]

Ok, thanks!

I've printed the manual now, so I'll start learning :)

For the time being I would only consider realistic addons/mods. I've downloaded LWAMI. Where can I find the others? As I am a newbie, haven't even played the sim yet, I'm not looking for new platforms yet either. But I guess I will someday? :)

[Weiss Pinguin]

Ok, thanks!

I've printed the manual now, so I'll start learning :)

For the time being I would only consider realistic addons/mods. I've downloaded LWAMI. Where can I find the others? As I am a newbie, haven't even played the sim yet, I'm not looking for new platforms yet either. But I guess I will someday? :)
Check the Mods Section for threads on RA and Alfa Tau, although currently only the RA thread has a link.

Also, this training mission (http://www.commanders-academy.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11403) by Molon Labe really helped me out. Switching between the game and the walkthrough got somewhat tedious, but at the end of it I felt a lot more confident. (Even though I didn't actually find the Victor at the end... *ahem*) Something else I found helpful was the "Things I learned as a newbie (http://www.commanders-academy.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41)" thread at Commanders Academy.

Bought the game last week, and I have to say it's sucked me in hook, line, and sinker. I had no idea what to at first, but after reading around and playing through the demo missions I got the hang of it.

That said, I still have no idea how work out a target motion analysis, but hey, pretending you do is half the fun, right? :lol:

[Theta Sigma]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABwAAAAOCAYAAAA 8E3wEAAAABmJLR0QA/wD/AP+gvaeTAAAACXBIWXMAAAsTAAALEwEAmpwYAAAAB3RJTUUH1Q UUDyoqJjAqRwAAAN1JREFUOMu1lMkVwyAMBYe0JGpCNUFNVk3k 4AUwxPGS+ILxkzX8jyTH/Sfu9nrmJ3cXlnMASyWRPwd2d5XlHCBZn1BthcbRAdxTZQDI8k3 mQzg11rhF+QZ9jdNOcQib6GFQYJYgCFucSRf6GsLU6wEY5yubT FqF2yq1vRwr3INXdQUWG+je1pELX4ED1wDyRAR0WfuAA9gloIT yvsFMIMgYInYRqF6rO9Sqz9qkO5ilyo0o3YBwJ+6vrdQonxWUQ llhXeHcb/wabMPkP2n81ocAIoLZrMqn/4y2RwP8DcQ+d6rT9ATiAAAAAElFTkSuQmCC


Alfa Tau isn't difficult to find. Just Google "AlfaTau3.1".

[Hoggorm]

Thank you Weiß Pinguin! That mission was exactly what I was looking for! :p

I found the Victor, but I must be traveling a bit to fast because he fires at me long before I have a good TMA on him :shifty:

Can I also ask what the main features of the add-ons (LWAMI, RA and AT3) are? Why are they the best? Are they realistic?

[goldorak]

AT3 and RA add a lot of new playable units (trafalgar, virginia, udaloy, udaloy2, type 212, bear, helix, oscar, etc...).
AT3 is based on lwami, RA on the other had is based on the old SCX database.
You can't go wrong with either of them.

[kpv1974]

Generally, LWAMI is the one mod to rule them all. All others are just cosmetic features.

As for manual .. focus on one platform, read it at once (it's not that much text) .. and don't worry about jumping into some easy mission. Use 'show truth' and learn to control the platform and fire weapons first, then go for sensors.

Visiting the forum, I found that unfortunately most of the players don’t know much about this simulator. I mean an internal logic of the game.

Sometimes players don’t understand obvious bugs at all (or shamming, that there are no problems), illogical behavior of the units, etc. Particularly it’s well noticeably when the question is that, what mode is better.

Ask the beginner: “What mode would you chose — "SuperNAVYRealismMod" or "BetaWater"?”.
What will be an answer?

Of course, the name "Weapons and Sensors Realism Mod" is promissory.
But all the guys who say: "LWAmi is the best for prototyping the real processes", — look like people with a banner says "ATTENTION. I DON’T KNOW MUCH ABOUT WHAT I’M SAYING!"
I don’t want to offend the developers of the LWAmi mode, because people put their time and efforts into improvement of this cripple DW, but I want to say the following:

When I bought DW, I’ve got a half-finished item. Any technically educated person will confirm this. Probably developers of DW have certain reasons to hate the buyers of their product...
Glaring errors don’t corrected, modification of the play is prohibited.
But maybe they simply wanted to use all of us as beta-testers for improvement their DWPro?

Installation of LWAmi or Alfa Tau (which use the doctrines of LWAmi) doesn’t much correct the situation.
However it was, but absence of the alternative forced me to do the own mode.
I take a direct participation in development of RA with a group of like-minded persons, people with high technical education. In process of the work on it there were eliminated more than 100 different sorts of bugs! about which nothing is known to 99,999% of the players. It will take a lot of time for me and space in the forum to enumerate all of them.

I have written this not for advertisement of RA.
Having analyzed all available modes, players will do their conclusion themselves as for what mode have the most realistic physics, behavior of AI units and, modeling of the weapons.
My aim is to get a worthy simulator, rather than something, having what you want to delete just after installation.

Also I want to say special thanks to some participants of the forum, engaged in active persecution of RA mode and its major developer. Thank you very much! Your behavior and miscellaneous statements made a great fun for us and stimulated us to do everything very qualitative to be clear even to the most inexperienced player.
Guys, RTFM! Think and analyze about what you write, otherwise you will look like people with a banner mentioned above.

And now to the question of the next mode version release.
At the present moment there is an active work on doctrines and graphics (thank for this designers of the DW, which don’t find time for this). The graphics take particularly much time.
The new models of all 688`s, Harushio, Kilo, KiloImp, Kilo with pump-jet (Alrosa) are ready.
The new models of Seawolf, Sturgeon, 212A, Delta-IV, Victor-3 are coming soon.
Muzzle doors animation of all operated units will be used in the mode.

Since amount of the hands and free time is limited, we can’t tell an approximate time of the new version release.

The problems with Sukhoi resource have forced to move on to:
http://www.redrodgers.com (http://www.redrodgers.com/)

News and new information can be founded here: http://www.redrodgers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=172 (http://www.redrodgers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=172)

You can post your propositions here:
http://www.redrodgers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4912

Keep watching the news!
All remarks and critiques are welcome.

Good luck!

[goldorak]

Hi Kpv1974,

You said


...
The new models of all 688`s, Harushio, Kilo, KiloImp, Kilo with pump-jet (Alrosa) are ready.
The new models of Seawolf, Sturgeon, 212A, Delta-IV, Victor-3 are coming soon.
TA animation of all operated units will be used in the mode.
...



Does this mean that the Type 212A will use a Towed Array ? :stare: :DL

[kpv1974]

Hi Kpv1974,

You said


...
The new models of all 688`s, Harushio, Kilo, KiloImp, Kilo with pump-jet (Alrosa) are ready.
The new models of Seawolf, Sturgeon, 212A, Delta-IV, Victor-3 are coming soon.
TA animation of all operated units will be used in the mode.
...



Does this mean that the Type 212A will use a Towed Array ? :stare: :DL

Yes.

[goldorak]

Yes.


:yeah: :D :woot: :up: :sunny: :salute:

Great job guys, really great job. :|\\

[LoBlo]

Visiting the forum, I found that unfortunately most of the players don’t know much about this simulator. I mean an internal logic of the game.

Sometimes players don’t understand obvious bugs at all (or shamming, that there are no problems), illogical behavior of the units, etc. Particularly it’s well noticeably when the question is that, what mode is better.

Ask the beginner: “What mode would you chose — "SuperNAVYRealismMod" or "BetaWater"?”.
What will be an answer?

Of course, the name "Weapons and Sensors Realism Mod" is promissory.
But all the guys who say: "LWAmi is the best for prototyping the real processes", — look like people with a banner says "ATTENTION. I DON’T KNOW MUCH ABOUT WHAT I’M SAYING!"
I don’t want to offend the developers of the LWAmi mode, because people put their time and efforts into improvement of this cripple DW, but I want to say the following:

When I bought DW, I’ve got a half-finished item. Any technically educated person will confirm this. Probably developers of DW have certain reasons to hate the buyers of their product...
Glaring errors don’t corrected, modification of the play is prohibited.
But maybe they simply wanted to use all of us as beta-testers for improvement their DWPro?

Installation of LWAmi or Alfa Tau (which use the doctrines of LWAmi) doesn’t much correct the situation.
However it was, but absence of the alternative forced me to do the own mode.
I take a direct participation in development of RA with a group of like-minded persons, people with high technical education. In process of the work on it there were eliminated more than 100 different sorts of bugs! about which nothing is known to 99,999% of the players. It will take a lot of time for me and space in the forum to enumerate all of them.

I have written this not for advertisement of RA.
Having analyzed all available modes, players will do their conclusion themselves as for what mode have the most realistic physics, behavior of AI units and, modeling of the weapons.
My aim is to get a worthy simulator, rather than something, having what you want to delete just after installation.

Also I want to say special thanks to some participants of the forum, engaged in active persecution of RA mode and its major developer. Thank you very much! Your behavior and miscellaneous statements made a great fun for us and stimulated us to do everything very qualitative to be clear even to the most inexperienced player.
Guys, RTFM! Think and analyze about what you write, otherwise you will look like people with a banner mentioned above.

And now to the question of the next mode version release.
At the present moment there is an active work on doctrines and graphics (thank for this designers of the DW, which don’t find time for this). The graphics take particularly much time.
The new models of all 688`s, Harushio, Kilo, KiloImp, Kilo with pump-jet (Alrosa) are ready.
The new models of Seawolf, Sturgeon, 212A, Delta-IV, Victor-3 are coming soon.
Muzzle doors animation of all operated units will be used in the mode.

Since amount of the hands and free time is limited, we can’t tell an approximate time of the new version release.

The problems with Sukhoi resource have forced to move on to:
http://www.redrodgers.com (http://www.redrodgers.com/)

News and new information can be founded here: http://www.redrodgers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=172 (http://www.redrodgers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=172)

You can post your propositions here:
http://www.redrodgers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4912

Keep watching the news!
All remarks and critiques are welcome.

Good luck!

A sincere bravo to your efforts. The whole community is excited about the chance for bug fixes, better AI behavior, etc.

Question. I don't speak Russian. Do the RA modders take suggestions on *this* forum as well? I wanted to suggest some possible sound modification to consider for future efforts.

[kpv1974]

Visiting the forum, I found that unfortunately most of the players don’t know much about this simulator. I mean an internal logic of the game.

Sometimes players don’t understand obvious bugs at all (or shamming, that there are no problems), illogical behavior of the units, etc. Particularly it’s well noticeably when the question is that, what mode is better.

Ask the beginner: “What mode would you chose — "SuperNAVYRealismMod" or "BetaWater"?”.
What will be an answer?

Of course, the name "Weapons and Sensors Realism Mod" is promissory.
But all the guys who say: "LWAmi is the best for prototyping the real processes", — look like people with a banner says "ATTENTION. I DON’T KNOW MUCH ABOUT WHAT I’M SAYING!"
I don’t want to offend the developers of the LWAmi mode, because people put their time and efforts into improvement of this cripple DW, but I want to say the following:

When I bought DW, I’ve got a half-finished item. Any technically educated person will confirm this. Probably developers of DW have certain reasons to hate the buyers of their product...
Glaring errors don’t corrected, modification of the play is prohibited.
But maybe they simply wanted to use all of us as beta-testers for improvement their DWPro?

Installation of LWAmi or Alfa Tau (which use the doctrines of LWAmi) doesn’t much correct the situation.
However it was, but absence of the alternative forced me to do the own mode.
I take a direct participation in development of RA with a group of like-minded persons, people with high technical education. In process of the work on it there were eliminated more than 100 different sorts of bugs! about which nothing is known to 99,999% of the players. It will take a lot of time for me and space in the forum to enumerate all of them.

I have written this not for advertisement of RA.
Having analyzed all available modes, players will do their conclusion themselves as for what mode have the most realistic physics, behavior of AI units and, modeling of the weapons.
My aim is to get a worthy simulator, rather than something, having what you want to delete just after installation.

Also I want to say special thanks to some participants of the forum, engaged in active persecution of RA mode and its major developer. Thank you very much! Your behavior and miscellaneous statements made a great fun for us and stimulated us to do everything very qualitative to be clear even to the most inexperienced player.
Guys, RTFM! Think and analyze about what you write, otherwise you will look like people with a banner mentioned above.

And now to the question of the next mode version release.
At the present moment there is an active work on doctrines and graphics (thank for this designers of the DW, which don’t find time for this). The graphics take particularly much time.
The new models of all 688`s, Harushio, Kilo, KiloImp, Kilo with pump-jet (Alrosa) are ready.
The new models of Seawolf, Sturgeon, 212A, Delta-IV, Victor-3 are coming soon.
Muzzle doors animation of all operated units will be used in the mode.

Since amount of the hands and free time is limited, we can’t tell an approximate time of the new version release.

The problems with Sukhoi resource have forced to move on to:
http://www.redrodgers.com (http://www.redrodgers.com/)

News and new information can be founded here: http://www.redrodgers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=172 (http://www.redrodgers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=172)

You can post your propositions here:
http://www.redrodgers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4912

Keep watching the news!
All remarks and critiques are welcome.

Good luck!

A sincere bravo to your efforts. The whole community is excited about the chance for bug fixes, better AI behavior, etc.

Question. I don't speak Russian. Do the RA modders take suggestions on *this* forum as well? I wanted to suggest some possible sound modification to consider for future efforts.

Have a possibility.

[Hoggorm]

I'm a bit confused...

As a newbie I see there are a lot of people with a good knowledge of the sim.

I'm still, however, a bit unsure on what mod to choose to install. I understand that if I install one, I can't have the others?

Some say the sim is great as it is delivered in the box, while others says it's full of bugs - and not even the mods will correct the big problems in DW.

It is actually a bit hard to know what to ask - there is so much information here - and I must admit that I haven't seen any bugs at all in the boxed version :06:

But I'll try to ask one more time:

1 - What is realistic with DW as it is presented from the developers?

2 - What do you think is NOT realistic with DW as it is out of the box?

I understand there are three major mods available, created by enthusiast, namely:

LWAMI version 3.08
Alfa Tau 3.1
RA

3 - What will each one of those mods do to my sim? What in DW do each one of them improve?

I'm personally looking for the best simulator experience. That means that if the sub does not look exactly as it should have, or have the right texture and colours, that does not really concern me that much as of today.

Being a pilot I don't know very much about submarines, but I find them very interesting, and I would like to learn more - perhaps by using DW? When we pilots train in the full motion simulators (practising engine failures, fires and such) the outside world is not really that interesting - as long as what's going on inside the cockpit is pretty close to the real thing (actually the scenery in Microsoft Flight Simulator is usually way better than what you'll find in a full motion simulator used to train pilots). This is also what I'm looking for in DW. I'm interested in that the systems are as realistically simulated as possible.

Since, as mentioned, I don't really know much about submarines, DW could easily fool me telling me that the systems are "as real as it gets". But what mod makes them even better?

Thanks :)

[goldorak]

You cannot use at the same time more mods obviously, but of course you can switch between mods using jsgme.
Now if you don't see the limits of the default dw installation, don't worry about installing other mods. Once you get the hang if DW 1.04 and if you're interested in going beyond download the 3 mods and install them. For instance in DW 1.04 you can't control the dipping sonar of the helo remotely from the frigate. Thats a very big bug (or limit) if you decide to play on the frigate. Lwami/AT/RA correct this behaviour.
And many more things like this.
If you play in multiplayer, then most assuredly you're going to have to install some mods, because almost everyone uses Lwami and now maybe also AT and RA.

[Molon Labe]

1 - What is realistic with DW as it is presented from the developers?
DW does a very good job with acoustic sensor modeling, and on information presentation/management in general. DW also is very good at creating realistic tactical puzzles that need to be solved.


2 - What do you think is NOT realistic with DW as it is out of the box?
I'm counting patches as being part of "out of the box" for this question, even though they technically shouldn't be. But SCS deserves credit for the things they fixed.

The acoustic modeling, although better than anything else on the market, still has substantial limitations. There is a lot of abstraction going on, especially with SSP types. Just as an example, CZ's always occur at 30.0nm intervals if they are present. Active sonar audio returns are always obvious even when nothing can be seen on the display (there is just one sound, no variability in type or intensity); no bottom clutter is modeled, no bi-static operation modeled. Many acoustic sensors have hardcapped ranges.

Radar modeling is very abstracted.

Missile/aircraft physics modeling is essentially non-existant.

Fire control illumination is abstracted with a guidance flag. Related: chaff is ineffective against SARH radars, since there is no lock to break.

ECM modeling has been removed from the commerical version of DW.

AEGIS firecontrol is hardcapped at 10nm; several Russian air defense systems are non functional.

Radar horizon non-existant to the playable FFGs illuminator radars.

No datalink guidance modeled for semi-autonomous weapons like the AMRAAM or R-77. Poor AI results in frequent fratricide when these weapons are employed.

No lock required to use IR weapons like the Mav-F.

Senseless damage model allows small ships like the Perry to survive hits by weapons meant to kill Supercarriers. No accounting for fire/flooding or any variablility whatsoever.

Kilos remain stealthy even when at flank speed.

Submarine masts are not detectable visually or by radar.

Only a human-controlled helo is capable of using dipping sonar.

Linked contacts displayed are frequently buggy; appear in location of a different platform.

Use of fictitious weapons like the generic "53cm torpedo" or the wireguided "65cm torpedo."

All active radar/IR missiles and A/P torpedoes (respectively) use the same seekers.

I'm sure there's more, but I'm running out.



3 - What will each one of those mods do to my sim? What in DW do each one of them improve?

I can only speak for LWAMI. It fixes or improves probably about half of the crap listed above (but there's nothing that can be done about many of the items on that list). Check the readme for the details.

[Hoggorm]

Thanks Molon Labe. That was something I was looking for. I see that there are some bugs that could anoy me when I get a little bit more into the sim.

[baggygreen]

Kilos remain stealthy even when at flank speed.

Jeez, that explains a lot right there, thanks ML.

I was playing a quick mission in the GIUK yesterday, and had a submerged contact headed SW at ~12kts. After 2 hours IRL i got sick of chasing this imaginary contact, and found that with truth on, the kilo was only 2.5 nm away. Whoops. Still making 12 kts but I couldnt see it nor could autocrew.

That explains a lot, cheers mate