[TEC]How can I move the aft stbd telegraph to the right?

[aanker]

What I would like to do is move the aft stbd telegraph to the right. Since I don't have a middle mouse button or a scroll wheel (I use a trackball mouse with two buttons) I can't zoom in to the 3d model of the Control Room in Data\Interior\NSS_Gato\NSS_Gato_CR.dat (I think this is the correct file) to change this using Skwasjer's outstanding S3D 9.0 tool. I was able to calibrate the gauges using the S3D tool in Data\Interior\NSS_Gato\NSS_Gato_CR.sim.

I like OakGroove's textures (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=118902) so I installed them in my modded version of stock SH4 ver 1.5 and also calibrated most of the gauges to work using Skwasjer's S3D tool similar to what Ducimus did in his "Gato Interior overhaul and Salmon/Sargo gauge fix" topic.
(http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=128890)

Here is a screenshot of my interior showing my current aft station for the boats that use the Gato textures.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p157/ptcbupers/01_SH4Img_Aft_Nav.jpg

Below, I edited the above graphic to show what I want to do - to move the stbd telegraph to the right and move the gyro left ... (I hope to change the gyro to the knotmeter)

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p157/ptcbupers/02_SH4Img_Aft_Nav.jpg

I also edited this graphic Anvart posted a while back ...
( http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=756401&postcount=50 ) of the aft Nav station to show the knotmeter moved to the center after moving the stbd telegraph to the right - using the stock SH4 textures.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p157/ptcbupers/03_Aft_Nav_ctr_Anv_2.jpg

Any help, ideas, etc would be greatly appreciated. Maybe there's a simple solution... lol

Art

[Sledgehammer427]

1. get s3d
2. ditch the trackbsll...my girlfriend ses one religiously and the ruddy thing drives me insane

[aanker]

Great idea Mikhayl - when I can find the model to export in that dat I'll do that.

-------------
Sledgehammer427

1. I have S3D
2. Since an accident a few years ago trackball is the only mouse I can use now.
That's life.... lol

Happy Hunting!

Art

[Sledgehammer427]

my bad, no offense, of course. I'm deaf in my right ear so I guess were somewhere on the same page:lol:

[aanker]

That is perfect - Thank you so much Mikhayl

Happy Hunting!

Art

[aanker]

Almost there .....

After importing the modified "_Cadrane" into the NSS_Gato_CR.dat I am now missing the knotmeter. I don't know what I did wrong?

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p157/ptcbupers/SH4Img_result_1.jpg

The inserted image in the above graphic is a closeup of the (missing) knotmeter texture. (I haven't calibrated the gauges for the new model yet)

I extracted the rar into "Gato gauges" folder on my desktop, opened NSS_Gato_CR.dat in S3D, found node 298 - "_Cadrane", clicked the 3D model 291 below it, and clicked Import.

All Import settings were identical to the screenshot.

Next I started SH4 and the aft Nav stbd telegraph is where it should be now but the knotmeter is missing its texture. I tried replacing Oakgrooves dds textures that I use in the textures Data\Textures\TNormal\tex folder with the stock dds textures in case that was the problem but it wasn't - has the same result.

Please - any ideas, help, etc would be appreciated.

Thanks, Art

[skwasjer]

Mikhayl, in S3D I saw a dial in the uv-mapping preview in the upper-left corner (stock) move somewhere else leaving a gap. If the dials are only swapped, the two uv images (original and new) should be (nearly) identical.

I did not check the second download you offered.

But for what reason should Max render it differently?

[skwasjer]

Oh I see what you mean now. The problem is related to the ordering and assignment of materials... I don't see a problem in the MTL though, the ordering and material names are exactly right:
Cadrane_e88d4094a4d2e800, TDC02_e88d409ea4d40318, cadrane02_e88d4091a4d460d0

Even if the material names don't match, it should still work as the ordering is still right. The material names only need to match if the ordering is different compared to the ordering as set on the node.

Guruware export bug? o_O :lol: This can be verified, check out the obj-file in DeepEx (I don't have it). If it renders the same as 3DSMax, then S3D is bugged... I think... (who... me?? :D)

[skwasjer]

Materials are teh suck... I'm equally confused :rotfl: I can't count the number of times I yelled at them... :88)

[edit] And I know too little about Max to be of real help.

[aanker]

Can you try with this model:

http://rapidshare.com/files/170295949/_Cadrane.obj.html

Overwrite the previous one with this one and try to import it in the same way along with all the previous files (other .obj's + mtl's), I think it should work :hmm:

Otherwise, could you post the same screenshot but using the stock textures ? This way I can identify the problem for sure, when comparing the shot with my stock textures it hints to 2 different possible causes. Sorry for the trouble Mikhayl. Here is the 2nd attempt with the new modified "_Cadrane.obj". I also changed the dial textures back to the stock 1.5 Common_Gauges_01.dds & Common_Gauges_02.dds.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p157/ptcbupers/SH4Img_result_2.jpg

Again, the insert is a blowup of new knotmeter graphic location.

I double checked my Import procedure on a clean file .... and again, I am sorry for your trouble and appreciate the help.

Thanks, Art

Edit: I wish I could tell you it worked. Maybe the Dev's had the same problem? - could explain why they had the stbd telegraph in the middle... lol

Edit 2: The Helmsman's knotmeter is now the stock off-white color as it is suppose to be in stock with stock graphics.

[skwasjer]

Mikhayl, you use Guruware exporter right?

I think the Guruware exporter does NOT internally honor the entire modifier stack (or at least some modifiers) before exporting. I remember reading this somewhere (but I may be wrong). I see you fixed it another way, but it would be nice to understand what exactly went wrong. Did you collapse the modifier stack before export here and earlier as well?

I ask this because, I replayed everything from scratch using stock model, moved uv-mapping, replaced material id to 3 for the knotmeter, and imported succesfully using my exported obj together with the other channel obj-files you made (not uvw-files, but this also worked in a 2nd test). It rendered ok both in Max, S3D (which can render textures now too) and in game... the only difference I can directly see is I use the Max stock exporter.

Somewhere, some place, something went wrong, but I now don't wish to think it's S3D ;) Even more so because the extra uv channels are not related to material assignment!! (So .uvw vs .obj doesn't really matter)

[aanker]

Hey Art, sorry it's me, I had SH3 running all the while so I couldn't test in game :oops: Still it's weird that it shows ok in both 3dsmax and deep exploration but not in game, but well it's the same here... anyway, I used another method and now it seems to work as expected:

Here's the new model, you will have to tick the "load .UVW files" instead of "load .obj files" this time:

http://rapidshare.com/files/170357059/Gato_gauges.7z.html

I hope it's good :D Thanks Mikhayl .... loaded it up and it looks great. Thanks a million Sir!

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p157/ptcbupers/SH4Img_result_3.jpg

It is the "little things" in life........ ;-)

Happy Hunting!

Art

[skwasjer]

So it looks like Guruware's exporter is fishy, but I don't understand why my model was still displayed correctly in both 3dsmax and DeepX ...
Yes, this doesn't make sense... :dead:

[edit] oh wait:
then changed the ID of the middle dial and exported, and no go, whatever the ID I choose it displays the tdc_gauge texture in game
Did you select the faces, and use a Material modifier? If yes, did you collapse the stack after this as well? I'm not really sure how to correctly change a material assignment in Max though... I seperated the dial before changing the material, then re-attached and this worked.

Anyway, thanks for retrying, but don't bother verifying this if you don't want to.

[sergbuto]

This reminds me.

skwasjer,

Once I had a problem with S3D importing the OBJ file with collapsed object hierarchy created in DeepX. The imported object did not have the correct texture assignment, no matter what I tried. In the end I imported the uncollapsed, multi-object file with Pack3D and it worked.

That happened only once while it worked fine for OBJ files of other models created the same way, i.e. with collapsed object hierarchy.

BTW, give me some time to reply to your PM because I need to do some checking.

[skwasjer]

I didn't use a modifier for the ID change, I selected the faces and then when you scroll down the right menu there's options to select faces by ID or to change the ID for selected faces, I used that and it seemed to work. I'm guessing if it didn't work the dial would have kept its original material in game, but it switched to tdc_gauges for some reason :dead:
By any chance do you know how to revert to the stock .obj importer/exporter ? I checked my plugins and all I have is the guruware one, I'd like to try another exporter to make sure, even though the test with the 3ds file converted with deepX seems to point to a buggy guruware plugin...
I believe the Guruware version can't be used side-by-side and as such the stock importer/exporter must be removed or disabled or something. I will check if I can find the online resource that described this. If you want to use the stock one you probably need to temporarily remove the guruware-version and reenable the stock one.

The default exporter and importer are (in stdplugs-folder):
Max2Obj.dle
Obj2Max.dli

[skwasjer]

This reminds me.

skwasjer,

Once I had a problem with S3D importing the OBJ file with collapsed object hierarchy created in DeepX. The imported object did not have the correct texture assignment, no matter what I tried. In the end I imported the uncollapsed, multi-object file with Pack3D and it worked.

That happened only once while it worked fine for OBJ files of other models created the same way, i.e. with collapsed object hierarchy.
I see... I appreciate any obj-file that S3D has problems with. Throw them at me at will. :up:

There are 2 known bugs in S3D's importer right now. But they don't seem related to what you describe. One is material names with spaces, but this is directly related to import with Max (default importer) where it seems to drop those materials. The other is related to importing a single object from a multi-object file with S3D, where S3D can get confused with materials (not always!). While this seems similar to what you describe, you talk about importing a pre-collapsed multi-object file so I don't think it's related.

Another possible issue may be still related to material names and ordering. If the ordering in the MTL is different than what is assigned to the node (in S3D), then if the material names in S3D don't match to the MTL, S3D will import the object with incorrect materials (it will use the sequence in which it appears in the MTL (I believe, lol)). This is not really a bug though.

BTW, give me some time to reply to your PM because I need to do some checking.
No problem, whenever you are ready.

[skwasjer]

Well, maybe I was wrong in assuming which io-plugin is default. I honestly don't know, lol. But the one I have seems less sleek than guru's version so that's why I assumed it was installed seperately and did not come with Max.

PM coming.

[sergbuto]

Another possible issue may be still related to material names and ordering. If the ordering in the MTL is different than what is assigned to the node (in S3D), then if the material names in S3D don't match to the MTL, S3D will import the object with incorrect materials (it will use the sequence in which it appears in the MTL (I believe, lol)). This is not really a bug though...
You mean when the order of materials is re-arranged/edited in the MTL file, S3D will enforce the old order upon importing into DAT, thus assigning the wrong textures from edited MTL? I noticed that because it introduced some inconvenience when dealing with ordering of transparent materials. Anyhow, it is no big deal in the end.

[skwasjer]

Yes, something like that. Just for clarity I'll rephrase to explain how materials are handled during import:

The ordering in an MTL 'may' be different as long as the material names of the MTL and DAT-file correspond. S3D will then match up the materials and change the index accordingly if needed to match those set on the node. This results in correct rendering.

If the material names don't match, then S3D will simply use the index in which they appear in the MTL. So 1st material in MTL gets index 0 in DAT, etc. However, if the ordering of materials in MTL and DAT do not correspond, in 99% of the cases this will cause render-problems. This can be fixed by handeditting the MTL-file by reordering the materials manually, or renaming the materials so they match those in the DAT (and S3D's name-matching routine kicks in).

Lastly, if the ordering of materials is the same in MTL and DAT, but the material names do not match, then no harm is done as no reordering is performed upon import. Since the order is correct and unchanged, it should render ok.

[edit] And take note: material names are only 'matched' if they have the format: <label>_<hexid>, i.e. mymaterial_abcdef0123456789
I was planning to extend the matching so an id or only the label would suffice as well, but have not done so yet.

[skwasjer]

Oh ok, I see where I went wrong. Max 2009 is a newer version than what I have.