Active sonar after firing torps

[Nelixdog]

Hi, my first post here at Subsim

I have been playing Sub Command (with SCX) for a while and recently received Dangerous Waters which I'm enjoying a lot. So far I've only played DW as subs.

A couple of questions if I may :

Firstly, having read some guides and lurked here it seems the use of active sonar in subs is not recommended because it gives away ownships bearing to the enemy. As I understand it, the noise from firing a torpedo also gives ownship bearing to the enemy .

With this in mind, does it cause me any tactical disadvantage to ping the enemy just after I fire my torps. I know that if I ping continuously the enemy can TMA me from active sonar but if I only ping once the enemy still only has my bearing. My TMA using passive sonar is improving but the confirmation of target location using active gives me a good range to improve my solution then giude the torps in. Is there any tactical reason not to do this in the game because I don't often see this tactic mentioned? Would this tactic have been used in real life?

Another question. In guides hiding under a noisy merchant is mentioned as a way to spoof passive sonar in MP games. I don't play MP but when I try this in SP the enemy usually detects me. Will this work against the AI or can AI always differentiate between my signal and the merchant? Maybe I am doing it wrong! Not close enough to the merchant possibly?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[Dr.Sid]

As for the ping, it's quite ok. But I suggest waiting even little more because then you can use active to avoid countermeasures. With LWAMI mod most subs would fire back immediately anyway.

As for the hiding behind contact, AFAIK it is not possible against AI. They operate in much simpler mode and I doubt they simulate contact masking. Even against human it's easy to tell with narrowband.
On the other hand, autocrew on human controlled ship seems to have problems classifying such contact.

[Frame57]

A couple of things to consider here. If I could not classify a contact I would not be shooting a fish at them to begin with. Hence if I could classify a contact chances are I would be able to have a decent TMA solution. The only reason active sonar would be used is if you have been caught with your pants down so to speak, and you have been fired on. You know the bearing of the incoming fish and use active sonar to see if you get a bounce back. This can be beneficial in that circumstance because more than likely if you were fired upon they have changed their course already. I have only seen our skipper use this tactic during what we callled snapshot drills. High speed evasive and counter targeting tactics.

Also if i am reading you correctly on this: If another sub is attempting to cloak itself under a noisy merchant they will have trouble hearing you as well because of their proximity to the merchant. Active sonar will have trouble dilineating two distict bounce backs. Again that would be predicated on the proximity of the two vessels to each other. I would attempt to get in the baffles of the merchant and use HF sonar to see if I could determine if there was something hiding beneath it.

[Molon Labe]

With this in mind, does it cause me any tactical disadvantage to ping the enemy just after I fire my torps.
Well, first of all, there is a problem in your assumption that your opponent will get a TIW at launch. If you get on the other side of the layer prior to firing, you should be able to get a few miles run out of your weapons before the TIW is triggered. You can also use terrain to get a runout prior to the weapons being detected.

With that out of the way, a ping at the time of a TIW won't hurt you most of the time. What it will do is increase your opponent's situational awareness. Battles can get chaotic at times, with TIW calls coming in from distant platforms shooting at each other and a sonar picture that is sometimes too messy to put together under pressure. A ping immediately following a TIW on the same bearing as the TIW tells the target that the shooter is a sub and the target is probably also a sub, and the volume of the ping might even give him/her a very rough range estimate.


I don't play MP but when I try this in SP....Wait, you're asking about tactical disadvantages against AI?

Anti AI tactics are simple. Use enough speed discipline to get first detection (doesn't take much), get a solution, close to effective range, but not any closer than you have to, shoot, evade if necessary. Rinse, repeat.