GWX2.1...no crush depth mod?

[prowler3]

Back in the day...several years ago before GWX...I had 2 mods installed. One allowed you to change the crush depth of various u-boats to more historically realistic numbers (supposedly!) and the other changed your depth gauges to reflect this change. They were:
SH3CrushDepthV2_build12
DepthGaugeMoD14(1.4ready)

The SH3CrushDepthV2 ran as a seperate modding program and not in JSGME.

I don't see any type of crush depth correction mod in GWX 2.1. So...

1. Are there newer crush depth and gauge mods that perform this function?
2. More importantly, are they (new or the above mentioned) compatible with GWX2.1?

First of many questions as I've been gone from SH3 for quite awhile. Got me a new system and I'm ready to R&R with SH3 but I want to do it right...and not have to backtrack in mid campaign because I did something wrong ;) .
Please bear with me!
Vic

[Tango589]

I've not heard of this mod, but if you install SH3Cmndr hen you have the option to randomise the crush depth for your boat. It gives you a new crush depth that is a certain percentage above or below the standard depth, but you don't know what the percentage is, so dive carefully.....:eek:

[danlisa]

I remember both mods.:ping: The crush depth program was developed to correct Stock SH3 issues. It's now been taken care of, no need for the separate proggy.

Firstly, GWX has (as near as possible) accurate Crush Depths but as Tango says, SH3 Commander can randomise this for you. FYI, in GWX you can go a lot deeper than the guage allows for but be careful.

The 400m depth gauge. As the XXI historically was the only UBoat rated anywhere near that depth, it's the only boat that should have it. The type 2, 7 & 9s should keep their current guages. Besides, where's the fun in knowing when your boat is going to implode.:arrgh!:

[Graf Paper]

The Crush Depth mod shouldn't be all that difficult to update for GWX 2.0/2.1.

I'm not as certain about the dials as that would require ensuring it works with and without the Integrated Orders mod and/or OLCGUI (and other popular UI mods these days).

[prowler3]

Thanks guys!

[JScones]

As others have stated, if you are running SH3Cmdr then you are essentially running SH3CrushDepthV2 (assuming you select the crush depth option of course).

SH3CrushDepthV2_build12 can be found on FileFront, and IIRC should work with GWX "out-of-the-box". I say IIRC because I can't remember if TT uses an absolute or dynamic way to find the value to change.

[prowler3]

As others have stated, if you are running SH3Cmdr then you are essentially running SH3CrushDepthV2 (assuming you select the crush depth option of course).

SH3CrushDepthV2_build12 can be found on FileFront, and IIRC should work with GWX "out-of-the-box". I say IIRC because I can't remember if TT uses an absolute or dynamic way to find the value to change.

Thank you...for everything you have brought to SH3. I am a bit confused on your statement, however. If I understand correctly, the "Crush Depth option" you mention in SH3Cmdr makes my crush depth a random number. I would rather have a known crush depth for each of my sub models but still have it more historically accurate than stock...or am I missing something?

Thanks for your patience and help, everyone.

[Graf Paper]

You could also just use Notepad to edit each of the NSS_uboatXX.CFG files to set the crush depth values to whatever you prefer (where XX is the type) :
[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=13;meters 12.5
SnorkelDepth=13;meters 12.5
CrashDepth=70;meters
MaxDepth=220;meters <----Here's where you set the crush depth
SurfaceDepth=8;meters
TorpLaunchMaxDepth=20;meters
StormConditions=11,0.4;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]
Just look in each u-boat's folder located in :
C:\Program Files\Ubisoft\SilentHunterIII\data\Submarine\NSS_U boatXX Where 'XX' is the u-boat type you wish to modify.

...or use the "Randomize Crush Depth" feature in SH3Cmdr and then edit the crush depths listed in the SH3 options.cfg file (located in C:\Program Files\SH3 Commander\Cfg) :
[CRUSH DEPTH] ;TURN FEATURE ON/OFF FROM WITHIN SH3 COMMANDER
;"Randomise U-boat crush depth" option
;<SUBTYPE>=<folder/file name>|<default crush depth in metres>
;Upper and Lower provides the randomisation range
;Written to each sub's .zon file
Upper=1 <-------These are the max depth modifiers that give a range
Lower=0.9 <-------from 100% to 90% of base max crush depth

IIA=NSS_Uboat2A|175<--Base max crush depth value used for each u-boat
IID=NSS_Uboat2D|200
IXB=NSS_Uboat9b|275
IXC=NSS_Uboat9c|275
IXC/40=NSS_Uboat9c|275
IXD2=NSS_Uboat9d2|275
VIIB=NSS_Uboat7b|250
VIIC=NSS_Uboat7c|300
VIIC/41=NSS_Uboat7c|350
VIIC/42=NSS_Uboat7c|450
XXI=NSS_Uboat21|350

It modifies the value slightly so you'd only know approximately what your max depth would be.

I prefer it this way. That tiny bit of doubt adds to the drama and tension, IMHO, giving you some real "Das Boot" moments (as it is popularly described around here).

[prowler3]

Thanks Graf Paper! After a bit of thought I'll go with the SH3Cmdr "Randomize crush depth" setting. I originally wanted to eliminate any grey areas until I got back into my SH3 comfort zone (it's been awhile!) but...what the heck...might as well add another layer of "scared the crap outta myself" right from the start!

Thanks for the info...I'm saving that. :up:

[JScones]

I am a bit confused on your statement, however. If I understand correctly, the "Crush Depth option" you mention in SH3Cmdr makes my crush depth a random number. I would rather have a known crush depth for each of my sub models but still have it more historically accurate than stock...or am I missing something?
Well, not knowing the exact crush depth is the intent. ;) I mean, what you read in books is only theoretical anyway, for obvious reasons.

However, if you want a set depth, then simply edit SH3 options.cfg as thus:
[CRUSH DEPTH] ;TURN FEATURE ON/OFF FROM WITHIN SH3 COMMANDER
;"Randomise U-boat crush depth" option
;<SUBTYPE>=<folder/file name>|<default crush depth in metres>
;Upper and Lower provides the randomisation range
;Written to each sub's .zon file
Upper=1 <-------keep at 1
Lower=1 <-------change to 1
IIA=NSS_Uboat2A|175 <--then whatever you set here will be the *exact* depth used *every* time
IID=NSS_Uboat2D|200 <--etc
IXB=NSS_Uboat9b|275 <--etc
IXC=NSS_Uboat9c|275
IXC/40=NSS_Uboat9c|275
IXD2=NSS_Uboat9d2|275
VIIB=NSS_Uboat7b|250
VIIC=NSS_Uboat7c|300
VIIC/41=NSS_Uboat7c|350
VIIC/42=NSS_Uboat7c|450
XXI=NSS_Uboat21|350

[Graf Paper]

Thanks for the assist, Jaesen! :up:

Good to see you again! Been missing your ugly mug. :yep:

[prowler3]

Thanks J! I think I'll keep the "scary, pee your pants factor" for now. If I'm diving to near crush depth...I've done something bad wrong and people are hunting me...why not pay for the original mistake with a bit more drama?? :up:

You guys are great, y'know?

[Graf Paper]

Glad you could find what you needed in all these ramblings, prowler. :yep:

I have to give most of the credit to Jaesen. His readmes and manual for Sh3 Commander makes nearly everything about that masterpiece fairly simple to understand. :know:

I want to be a great programmer like him when I grow up! :D

You done good, Mr. Jones! :up:

[prowler3]

Glad you could find what you needed in all these ramblings, prowler. :yep:

I have to give most of the credit to Jaesen. His readmes and manual for Sh3 Commander makes nearly everything about that masterpiece fairly simple to understand. :know:

I want to be a great programmer like him when I grow up! :D

You done good, Mr. Jones! :up:

I'll gladly second that motion! In any "game", be it MSFS, SH or any other...a few really brilliant people come to the fore. They make such an extreme contribution to the understanding and improvement of said program...that it becomes hard to imagine running it without the benefit of their efforts. Jaesen is one of those...without a doubt.

[meduza]

VIIC/42=NSS_Uboat7c|450
Does that mean I can take the VIIC/42 to 450m? I've never managed to go past 270m without starting to take damage, with or without SH3 Commander. :hmm:

[Graf Paper]

Beats me, Meduza. I just grabbed that from an old SH3Cmdr cfg file in one of my old mod folders. I wouldn't take those depth values seriously.

It was intended only as an illustration to show prowler how modifying the crush depth is done.

Check your own SH3 options.cfg file for the depth values used in your install of SH3 Commander.

[prowler3]

The Crush Depth mod shouldn't be all that difficult to update for GWX 2.0/2.1.

I'm not as certain about the dials as that would require ensuring it works with and without the Integrated Orders mod and/or OLCGUI (and other popular UI mods these days).

I gave the "depth Gauge" mod a try and you are right...it is incompatible with the Integrated Orders mod. My saved patrol showed my fuel tanks full after this mod was enabled (I was at 65% in the original save). There may have been other issues but I didn't stick around to find them...I immediately saved with a different save name and got out. I'm hoping we will see a mod for the depth guage to help take advantage of the SH3Cmdr deeper depths for the type VII and XXI. Mine (untouched) are:

IIA=NSS_Uboat2A|175
IID=NSS_Uboat2D|200
IXB=NSS_Uboat9b|275
IXC=NSS_Uboat9c|275
IXC/40=NSS_Uboat9c|275
IXD2=NSS_Uboat9d2|275
VIIB=NSS_Uboat7b|250
VIIC=NSS_Uboat7c|300
VIIC/41=NSS_Uboat7c|350
VIIC/42=NSS_Uboat7c|450
XXI=NSS_Uboat21|350

[evan82]

You can use Silent3Ditor to change maximum depth of the sub.:yep:

[Graf Paper]

prowler, you must be living right because your prayers have been answered! :D

Go check out Thomsen's Depth Gauge...

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=143819

Hope this gets you sailing the briny deep at the right depth now! ;)

[prowler3]

Evan82, I would probably just change the entries in the SH3Cmdr options.cfg I listed rather than add another mod.

Graf Paper, you are the man! Thanks! Now if I could just figure out how I missed that?

Speaking of those SH3Cmdr options.cfg entries for depth...I am under the impression that GWX2.1 has modified the "vanilla" SH3 depths to more realistic numbers. Does SH3Cmdr get the depths I listed previously from GWX, or are these purely SH3Cmdr numbers? If they are not GWX depths, where would I find those in my SH3/GWX install? I looked in data\Submarine\NSS_Uboat7c\NSS_Uboat7c.CFG (for example) and it lists Max Depth=500 meters...so does every other sub. The reason I ask is that I would like the SH3Cmdr "randomize crush depth" setting to start with the more accurate GWX depths...if it doesn't already.

Thanks!

[Graf Paper]

That is most strange indeed! :-?

Let's take my beloved VIIB as an example...

In its cfg file, the max depth is listed as 500 meters.

but...

In the sim file it is listed as 333.3 meters.

For the player subs, all max depths are listed at 500 meters... except for the VIIC-41, which is listed correctly as 350 meters.

:huh:

Now I'm confused as well. :doh:

I'd say to trust Jaesen on this one. He's got a good eye for detail and accuracy in all the things affected by SH3 Commander and his crush depth values are as historically accurate as they can get.

[JScones]

Ignore the cfg and sim files, it's the zon file that is important, and you must keep the following in mind:

- the values SH3Cmdr uses are not meant to be metre accurate. Indeed, do such verified values exist? The values used are deliberate so that players don't simply go to uboat.net and take comfort knowing exactly how low they can go. Keep in mind, for example, that after sinking HMS Barham U-331 (VIIC) was reported to dive to 250m when the theoretical crush depth was rated around 220m. And for this reason, considering that by default SH3Cmdr decreases the depth, it defaults a bit deeper than the usual theoretical depths. And with SH3 taking damage into account as well, thus decreasing it even further, I think the overall result of my approach is quite plausible.

I guess what I am saying here is that there is more to this particular figure than just looking in a book and taking the quoted figure as gospel.

- the values used by GWX are intentionally modified from the values obtained through their research for much the same reason - to keep the average player on their toes, just like in RL. So, if you use theirs as your seed, then you will be modifying modified values. :doh:

- the values stored in the zon files are a hex representation of a decimal number. Thus you need to convert any decimal number to hex (ie, if you want a 200m crush depth, then you need to write 280 to the file). This is the biggest trap that modders fall into. SH3Cmdr does the conversion internally, so if you want to modify the values through SH3 options.cfg, just enter it in metres and SH3Cmdr will take care of the rest.

Hopefully this is enough to clarify it for everyone.

[prowler3]

I do believe I will keep the SH3Cmdr "random crush depth"...forget about any mods to the gauge or the subs crush depths...and play on. The more I think (and read) about it, the more I want to just leave GWX as is in this regard :up: .

[Graf Paper]

Thanks for expounding upon and clarifying the matter, Jaesen. :)

I was looking at values in the sim file because TimeTraveler's original Crush Depth Mod relied upon modifying the number for "Crash Depth" there as well as the hex values in the zon file. At least that's what he once said.

I should have spoken more clearly as well. What I meant by "historically accurate" was in reference to all the research that has been done by yourself and other modders to arrive at a reasonable approximation of what the probable crush depths were for the various u-boat types.

Many real world factors influencing maximum depth such as variances in the steel's quality, salinity and temperature of the water, and even atmospheric pressure are very well represented by your own algorithm used in Sh3 Commander.

That's why I advise anyone to rely upon your utility. You can't improve upon perfection. :up: