Breaking news: Powell endorses Obama

[Von Tonner]

No surprise really.

"I have voted for members of both parties in the course of my adult life. And as I said earlier, I will vote for the candidate I think can do the best job for America, whether that candidate is a Republican, a Democrat or an independent,"
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/19/colin.powell/index.html

[Digital_Trucker]

Don't know whether he's supporting him for racial reasons or not, but after reading that article twice, his quotes sound more like he's trying to rationalize his decision as opposed to really believing what he's saying.

[Von Tonner]

Pfah, I bet he's voting for Obama just because he's black :shifty:

If you watched his interview he answered that question. I respect Powell and I do not for one moment think that he is that shallow or that your insinuation is warranted. Is Warren Buffet black - no. But hey, he endorses Obama as well.

[Von Tonner]

I was kidding :smug:
Sorry Mikhayl, I apologise.

[Von Tonner]

Don't know whether he's supporting him for racial reasons or not, but after reading that article twice, his quotes sound more like he's trying to rationalize his decision as opposed to really believing what he's saying.
Look I cannot speak for Powell, but it does not take a rocket scientist that the ayers, the muslim insinuations, the 'was he born in the USA', etc, are getting tiresome and for someone like Powell, a republican, it may be enough is enough.

[Von Tonner]

No need, I asked for it !
Back to the topic (sorry!), I wonder how this news will translate in the polls, I'm sure this could turn quite a few "undecided voters" toward Obama.

Watching the 'Situation Room' that is how they read it. This endorsement will go a long way in reassuring those who question Obama's 'commander-in-chief' abilities that hey, "if a respected General gives him the nod' - well, he can't be that too shabby. I think Powell gives a pretty good rational for his endorsement - but what else would you expect from a credited Genera:)l

[Digital_Trucker]

Look I cannot speak for Powell, but it does not take a rocket scientist that the ayers, the muslim insinuations, the 'was he born in the USA', etc, are getting tiresome and for someone like Powell, a republican, it may be enough is enough.
Agreed, McCain's campaign has gone in totally the wrong direction. They should have been going after Obama's economic policies, lack of experience, questionable associations that are more obvious and his flip-flops instead. Had they attacked his association with Rezko and officers in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac who took multi-million dollar golden parachutes and became advisors to Obama's campaign , his "spread the wealth" philosophy (refundable tax credits to folks who pay little or no tax), his questionable bill that might cost the US more than the bailouts (in the form of increased foreign aid) and his backing out of public financing so that he could take in an unheard of amount of money from folks like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and spend tons of money on commercials in freaking video games and 30 minute prime time "sermon times" because he's not facing spending limits like he agreed to do when McCain did, then Powell might have had a choice who to support. But, then, Powell should be aware of all of this, too, so is supporting the wrong person because the right persons campaign has gone in the wrong direction the right thing to do?

[Zachstar]

Pfah, I bet he's voting for Obama just because he's black :shifty:

So I can say people who vote for McCain are voting because he is white?

Disgusting!

[Zachstar]

Look I cannot speak for Powell, but it does not take a rocket scientist that the ayers, the muslim insinuations, the 'was he born in the USA', etc, are getting tiresome and for someone like Powell, a republican, it may be enough is enough.
Agreed, McCain's campaign has gone in totally the wrong direction. They should have been going after Obama's economic policies, lack of experience, questionable associations that are more obvious and his flip-flops instead. Had they attacked his association with Rezko and officers in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac who took multi-million dollar golden parachutes and became advisors to Obama's campaign , his "spread the wealth" philosophy (refundable tax credits to folks who pay little or no tax), his questionable bill that might cost the US more than the bailouts (in the form of increased foreign aid) and his backing out of public financing so that he could take in an unheard of amount of money from folks like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and spend tons of money on commercials in freaking video games and 30 minute prime time "sermon times" because he's not facing spending limits like he agreed to do when McCain did, then Powell might have had a choice who to support. But, then, Powell should be aware of all of this, too, so is supporting the wrong person because the right persons campaign has gone in the wrong direction the right thing to do?

Um this is not some video game where because some idiot forgot to marco his spells he still gets the item or whatever.

McCain decided to start talking about Ayers and ACORN

Ayers: Sunk when it was discovered the repubs had more involvement with him.

ACORN: That chestnut sunk badly today when a repub organization leader got arrested for voter registration fraud.

McCain had just as much right to opt out of public financing as Obama. Kerry was sunk because he was tied by that crap.

[baggygreen]

Its an interesting move.

because I am by nature a slightly cynical person, I wonder if it might be an attempt (or maybe an already sealed deal?) that if Powell endorse Obama, he'll get a job...

I doubt it, because Powell's always come across to me as a man of integrity. But stranger things have happened :yep:

[Zachstar]

Powell does NOT need any kind of "Invitation" He is known as THE political general.

Both sides of the isle. More knowledge about military and geopolitical stuffz than both McCain and Obama combined. And looks good to boot.

If he wants a job he gets it. He did not have to endorse to do so.

[baggygreen]

Some jobs, yes, he might have been a shoe-in.

Others, perhaps not.

Like i said, it's only a natural cynicism to all things political that I have..

[AVGWarhawk]

Powell is a RINO...Republican in Name Only.

[August]

Powell is a RINO...Republican in Name Only.

So is McCain.

[Digital_Trucker]

Um this is not some video game where because some idiot forgot to marco his spells he still gets the item or whatever.

McCain decided to start talking about Ayers and ACORN

Ayers: Sunk when it was discovered the repubs had more involvement with him.

ACORN: That chestnut sunk badly today when a repub organization leader got arrested for voter registration fraud.

McCain had just as much right to opt out of public financing as Obama. Kerry was sunk because he was tied by that crap.
No one intimated that it was a video game.

We all know what was done. I suggested what might have worked better for him.

I see no response regarding anything except for the public financing thing, so I'll address it. I suppose you are going to deny that Obama said, in public, that he would go the public financing route if McCain did? Well, McCain did what he said he was going to do and Obama didn't. What does that tell you about the man and what kind of attack might have worked. Same thing with Obama's "any time, anywhere" about town hall meetings and then pleading that he didn't have enough time. It's not about having a way out of a commitment, it's about keeping your commitments, which I'm sure Obama will do for those that have paid his way into the whitehouse (namely, all the greedy bastards you can think of).

If you vote on who ran the better campaign, then you're missing the point. The point is who do you really think would do the better job when the real work starts, namely getting this country out of the mess it's in.

[bookworm_020]

It will be damaging to McCain, but I doubt that it will have a major influance on republican voters as Powell doesn't seem to have much swing with them, as for undecided voters, it could be a different story.

[JHuschke]

Pfah, I bet he's voting for Obama just because he's black :shifty: No ****!

Obama kept saying.."we will Spread the Wealth". Yeah, give those blacks that got no jobs and 50 kids money so they can buy themselves new jaguars and more 9 milimeters.

I saw a black guy at a grocery store, he had a welfare card and used it, he had a white guy carry the grocery cart to put groceries in the back of his brand new yellow jaguar! Unbelievable.

[CCIP]

Pfah, I bet he's voting for Obama just because he's black :shifty: No ****!

Obama kept saying.."we will Spread the Wealth". Yeah, give those blacks that got no jobs and 50 kids money so they can buy themselves new jaguars and more 9 milimeters.

I saw a black guy at a grocery store, he had a welfare card and used it, he had a white guy carry the grocery cart to put groceries in the back of his brand new yellow jaguar! Unbelievable.

Your rhetoric here is what I find unbelievable. I'm tempted to violate Godwin's law again :roll:

[August]

Pfah, I bet he's voting for Obama just because he's black :shifty: No ****!

Obama kept saying.."we will Spread the Wealth". Yeah, give those blacks that got no jobs and 50 kids money so they can buy themselves new jaguars and more 9 milimeters.

I saw a black guy at a grocery store, he had a welfare card and used it, he had a white guy carry the grocery cart to put groceries in the back of his brand new yellow jaguar! Unbelievable.

Save your racist nazi crap for your skin head pals. That stuff don't cut it here.

[PeriscopeDepth]

Pfah, I bet he's voting for Obama just because he's black :shifty: No ****!

Obama kept saying.."we will Spread the Wealth". Yeah, give those blacks that got no jobs and 50 kids money so they can buy themselves new jaguars and more 9 milimeters.

I saw a black guy at a grocery store, he had a welfare card and used it, he had a white guy carry the grocery cart to put groceries in the back of his brand new yellow jaguar! Unbelievable.
Everybody that lives in the South should have to leave it at least once. And vice versa.

PD

[Konovalov]

This endorsement will help swing some if not many undecided voters. The explanation and reasons given by Powell appeared genuine. Indeed in my view what Powell said was an accurate assessment of the failings of the McCain campaign and McCains lack of judgement on both the economy and the selection of Palin.

Powell sums it up pretty well for me with these honest and at the end powerfull words:


And I've also been disappointed, frankly, by some of the approaches that Senator McCain has taken recently, or his campaign ads, on issues that are not really central to the problems that the American people are worried about. This Bill Ayers situation that's been going on for weeks became something of a central point of the campaign. But Mr. McCain says that he's a washed-out terrorist. Well, then, why do we keep talking about him? And why do we have these robocalls going on around the country trying to suggest that, because of this very, very limited relationship that Senator Obama has had with Mr. Ayers, somehow, Mr. Obama is tainted. What they're trying to connect him to is some kind of terrorist feelings. And I think that's inappropriate.

Now, I understand what politics is all about. I know how you can go after one another, and that's good. But I think this goes too far. And I think it has made the McCain campaign look a little narrow. It's not what the American people are looking for. And I look at these kinds of approaches to the campaign and they trouble me. And the party has moved even further to the right, and Governor Palin has indicated a further rightward shift. I would have difficulty with two more conservative appointments to the Supreme Court, but that's what we'd be looking at in a McCain administration. I'm also troubled by, not what Senator McCain says, but what members of the party say. And it is permitted to be said such things as, "Well, you know that Mr. Obama is a Muslim." Well, the correct answer is, he is not a Muslim, he's a Christian. He's always been a Christian. But the really right answer is, what if he is? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer's no, that's not America. Is there something wrong with some seven-year-old Muslim-American kid believing that he or she could be president? Yet, I have heard senior members of my own party drop the suggestion, "He's a Muslim and he might be associated terrorists." This is not the way we should be doing it in America.

I feel strongly about this particular point because of a picture I saw in a magazine. It was a photo essay about troops who are serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. And one picture at the tail end of this photo essay was of a mother in Arlington Cemetery, and she had her head on the headstone of her son's grave. And as the picture focused in, you could see the writing on the headstone. And it gave his awards--Purple Heart, Bronze Star--showed that he died in Iraq, gave his date of birth, date of death. He was 20 years old. And then, at the very top of the headstone, it didn't have a Christian cross, it didn't have the Star of David, it had crescent and a star of the Islamic faith. And his name was Kareem Rashad Sultan Khan, and he was an American. He was born in New Jersey. He was 14 years old at the time of 9/11, and he waited until he can go serve his country, and he gave his life. Now, we have got to stop polarizing ourself in this way. And John McCain is as nondiscriminatory as anyone I know. But I'm troubled about the fact that, within the party, we have these kinds of expressions.

[caspofungin]

just wanted to ask the americans' opinion -- should powell have run for president? would he be a better candidate than either mccain or obama?

[CCIP]

just wanted to ask the americans' opinion -- should powell have run for president? would he be a better candidate than either mccain or obama?
He could have, but his direct association with the Bush administration and especially his infamous presentation on how Iraq undoubtedly had WMDs would have still probably cost him many votes in the more moderate crowds, while his general position would probably not sit well with the conservatives (and the liberals we can count out here by default). He's a very sharp guy, but I don't think he had any realistic chance of being nominated this time around. Even for a VP slot, he wouldn't have been a good bet.

[Tchocky]

I was wondering if Powell would implicitly back Obama.

Turns out he doesn't do anything by halves :)

"I'm also troubled by, not what Sen. McCain says, but what members of the party say, and it is permitted to be said such things as: "Well, you know that Mr. Obama is a Muslim." Well, the correct answer is: he is not a Muslim. He's a Christian. He's always been a Christian. But the really right answer is: What if he is? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer is: No, that's not America. Is there something wrong with some 7-year-old Muslim-American kid believing he or she can be president?"

THat shouldn't be a noteworthy statement.

Oh, and looking around the interwebs, there seem to be a
lot of angry people, most taking Mikhayl's joke seriously.

[Von Tonner]

This endorsement will help swing some if not many undecided voters. The explanation and reasons given by Powell appeared genuine. Indeed in my view what Powell said was an accurate assessment of the failings of the McCain campaign and McCains lack of judgement on both the economy and the selection of Palin.

Powell sums it up pretty well for me with these honest and at the end powerfull words:


And I've also been disappointed, frankly, by some of the approaches that Senator McCain has taken recently, or his campaign ads, on issues that are not really central to the problems that the American people are worried about. This Bill Ayers situation that's been going on for weeks became something of a central point of the campaign. But Mr. McCain says that he's a washed-out terrorist. Well, then, why do we keep talking about him? And why do we have these robocalls going on around the country trying to suggest that, because of this very, very limited relationship that Senator Obama has had with Mr. Ayers, somehow, Mr. Obama is tainted. What they're trying to connect him to is some kind of terrorist feelings. And I think that's inappropriate.

Now, I understand what politics is all about. I know how you can go after one another, and that's good. But I think this goes too far. And I think it has made the McCain campaign look a little narrow. It's not what the American people are looking for. And I look at these kinds of approaches to the campaign and they trouble me. And the party has moved even further to the right, and Governor Palin has indicated a further rightward shift. I would have difficulty with two more conservative appointments to the Supreme Court, but that's what we'd be looking at in a McCain administration. I'm also troubled by, not what Senator McCain says, but what members of the party say. And it is permitted to be said such things as, "Well, you know that Mr. Obama is a Muslim." Well, the correct answer is, he is not a Muslim, he's a Christian. He's always been a Christian. But the really right answer is, what if he is? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer's no, that's not America. Is there something wrong with some seven-year-old Muslim-American kid believing that he or she could be president? Yet, I have heard senior members of my own party drop the suggestion, "He's a Muslim and he might be associated terrorists." This is not the way we should be doing it in America.

I feel strongly about this particular point because of a picture I saw in a magazine. It was a photo essay about troops who are serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. And one picture at the tail end of this photo essay was of a mother in Arlington Cemetery, and she had her head on the headstone of her son's grave. And as the picture focused in, you could see the writing on the headstone. And it gave his awards--Purple Heart, Bronze Star--showed that he died in Iraq, gave his date of birth, date of death. He was 20 years old. And then, at the very top of the headstone, it didn't have a Christian cross, it didn't have the Star of David, it had crescent and a star of the Islamic faith. And his name was Kareem Rashad Sultan Khan, and he was an American. He was born in New Jersey. He was 14 years old at the time of 9/11, and he waited until he can go serve his country, and he gave his life. Now, we have got to stop polarizing ourself in this way. And John McCain is as nondiscriminatory as anyone I know. But I'm troubled about the fact that, within the party, we have these kinds of expressions.


That reference Powell made to Kareem Rashad Sultan Khan hopefully will make those who give home to discriminatory thoughts pause to think. It certainly made me look in on myself.

Here is a link to info on Rashad.
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/krkhan.htm

[Digital_Trucker]

On a totally different note, does anyone find it coincidental that shortly after Powell announces his endorsement, Obama announces his intention to have Powell as an advisor?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-10-20-obama-powell-administration_N.htm?csp=34

Yes, I know the headline says could, make sure to read the quote. I wonder how Colin would feel about being an advisor alongside Franklin Raines, Tim Howard and Jim Johnson?

[Skybird]

the day of shame.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6248/colinpowellun743990tx9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

that's when Powell lost me. A man of integrity would have confronted or - if forced to - even left government before willing to participate in that ridiculous fake show.

[Konovalov]

even left government before willing to participate in that ridiculous fake show.
I have yet to see any evidence to show that the Bush Administration knowingly lied about WMD's. Are you implying that President Bush, Vice President Cheney, and then Secretary of State Powell lied to the American people and indeed lied to the world in presenting what you term as a "fake show" to the United Nations Security Council?

[Skybird]

Aussie humour, I assume.:hmm:

[August]

Aussie humour, I assume.:hmm:

August's Skybird translating service:

"That's an uncomfortable question so i will try to laugh it off".

[Frame57]

WMD's? Well, there is only two ways to go with it. Either the administartion lied or their Intel was flawed. Back in the 80's we got dispatched to check out an alleged Soviet boomer being off the coast of Maine. SOSUS reported it and it turned out to be friggin NR-1. Intel can be flawed. But, I also believe in holding people accountable for flawed info. It is serious business

[August]

If you're going to play the blame game then start with Saddam himself:

http://able2know.org/topic/110876-1

Saddam Hussein allowed the world to believe he had weapons of mass destruction to deter rival Iran and did not think the United States would stage a major invasion, according to an FBI interrogator who questioned the Iraqi leader after his capture.

Saddam expected only a limited aerial attack by the United States and thought he could remain in control, the FBI special agent, George Piro, told CBS's 60 Minutes program in an interview to be broadcast Sunday.

"He told me he initially miscalculated ... President Bush's intentions" said Piro. "He thought the United States would retaliate with the same type of attack as we did in 1998 ... a four-day aerial attack."

"He survived that one and he was willing to accept that type of attack" Piro said.

In 2003, a close aide of Saddam's told The Associated Press that Saddam did not expect a U.S. invasion and deliberately kept the world guessing about his weapons program, although he already had gotten rid of it.

Saddam publicly denied having unconventional weapons before the U.S. invasion, but prevented U.N. inspectors from working in the country from 1998 until 2002 and when they finally returned in November 2002, they often complained that Iraq wasn't fully cooperating.

Piro, a Lebanese-American who speaks Arabic, debriefed Saddam after he was found in an underground hideout near his home city north of Baghdad in December 2003, nine months after the U.S. invasion.

Piro said Saddam also said that he wanted to keep up the illusion that he had the program in part because he thought it would deter a likely Iranian invasion.

For him, it was critical that he was seen as still the strong, defiant Saddam. He thought that (faking having the weapons) would prevent the Iranians from reinvading Iraq, Piro told Scott Pelley of 60 Minutes.

Piro added that Saddam had the intention of restarting an Iraqi weapons program at the time, and had engineers available for chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.

[August]

Blaming him for what exactly, thinking that the US admnistration was smarter than it actually was ? Great mistake indeed.

No, his mistake was calculating that the US would launch another impotent Clintonian missile attack, ie do nothing.

[August]

Interesting.

Powell is actually going against his son in this:

http://www.thehill.com/leading-the-news/colin-powell-splits-with-son-michael-over-white-house-race-2008-10-20.html

[Kapt Z]

even left government before willing to participate in that ridiculous fake show.
I have yet to see any evidence to show that the Bush Administration knowingly lied about WMD's. Are you implying that President Bush, Vice President Cheney, and then Secretary of State Powell lied to the American people and indeed lied to the world in presenting what you term as a "fake show" to the United Nations Security Council?

I would imply that, yes.

The strange thing was at the time my 'conservative' Republican friends were even more into the conspiracy theories than I was. They were all convinced that the Bush administration wanted the war and was willing to do anything necessary to see that it happened. They thought it was obvious that the 'diplomacy' was all a sham.

I liked Colin Powell and I really wish he had resigned instead of going before the UN.

[August]

I would imply that, yes.

The strange thing was at the time my 'conservative' Republican friends were even more into the conspiracy theories than I was. They were all convinced that the Bush administration wanted the war and was willing to do anything necessary to see that it happened. They thought it was obvious that the 'diplomacy' was all a sham.

I liked Colin Powell and I really wish he had resigned instead of going before the UN.

So you imply without any proof other than the feelings of your fellow conspiracy theorists? Kinda flimsy no?

[Skybird]

The point is that back then the CIA and other intel services clearly got the order that they had to create and construct the evidence needed to give the impression of a political causes that was wanted - even if reality was not in line with this. Repeatedly, members of the intel services had revealed that, and they also complained about that that their later realistic assessements obviously never had reached the president - or he had not read them, instead kept on talking silly nonsens that showed that he had no clue of what he was talking about. Even a late general assessement of needed corrections that was worked out by 15 intelligence offices together - he apparently never read: "not even the first page were we summarized it", as one member of the gremium complained about with resignation. the names behind this conspiracy against the nation probably are not just Bush himself, who probably was just too stupid to see what was happening, or did see it but did not care, but Cheney and Rumsfeld (also in the team: Rice), who ran the show in Bush's place, and for that got card balanche from Bush. Here is were Bush's real catastrophic failure lies. Like all moralists, he is in his way plain stupid, but not by nature "evil". He is just an incompetent dilletant for whom being presidient simply is completely too much from A to Z, and who messd this job up like he has messed up ever yother job and business project that he ever put his hands on - they all ended in desasters from which his uber-daddy had to save him and for which other people had to pay the bill.

[Kapt Z]

I would imply that, yes.

The strange thing was at the time my 'conservative' Republican friends were even more into the conspiracy theories than I was. They were all convinced that the Bush administration wanted the war and was willing to do anything necessary to see that it happened. They thought it was obvious that the 'diplomacy' was all a sham.

I liked Colin Powell and I really wish he had resigned instead of going before the UN.

So you imply without any proof other than the feelings of your fellow conspiracy theorists? Kinda flimsy no?

No, I implied because that's what I believe. I was just shocked to hear my friends share my feelings. We have been disagreeing on politics since the 7th grade. I think there is more than ample evidence, but I think Skybird's last post pretty much covered it. Deception or incompitence take your pick.

[August]

No, I implied because that's what I believe. I was just shocked to hear my friends share my feelings. We have been disagreeing on politics since the 7th grade. I think there is more than ample evidence, but I think Skybird's last post pretty much covered it. Deception or incompitence take your pick.

Skybirds post is just monday morning quarterbacking. Nobody could say in 2002 that Saddam didn't have the weapons he claimed he had, or that he didn't have the expertise and resources to make more of them including nukes given a little time, nor was the Bush administration the first to think he had them either though it's tough to find a Democrat these days who remembers what they were saying in the 1990s.

Besides, in spite of what the revisionists will tell you WMDs were never the only reason for taking him out. It should have been done in 1991, and for that I blame Bush Sr. But whatever, Saddam was a dangerous, violent and cruel tyrant with access to a lot of petrodollars and a strong desire for revenge. It'd be stupid to leave him in power. I'd think all the oil for food scandles would show you that. I firmly believe that had we not invaded Iraq we'd have had another 9-11 by now and he'd have had a hand in it.

[Von Tonner]

I firmly believe that had we not invaded Iraq we'd have had another 9-11 by now and he'd have had a hand in it.

My belief as well. The danger of a Saddam circumventing UN sanctions far outweighed an academic debate at the time of whether their was conclusive proof he had or was developing WMD. He had to be taken out period.

The problem and sad thing was with phase 2 after he was toppled as Powell referred to. That is where current debate should be, inspecting one's navel on phase 2 so that the same mistakes are not made again should one have to take out another regime to secure world stability. I have a problem using the word 'peace' as for me, that is an illusive concept. It is like watching a dog try and catch its tail. It ain't going to happen.

[Bewolf]

You guys should go start a new religion the ways you talk about "belief".

I rather go by this:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2007/09/06/bush_wmd/

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB254/index.htm (http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB254/index.htm)

[Tchocky]

It's not obvious to me how the oil-for-food scandal translates to a 9/11-type attack, especially when there is no extant evidence for anything like this.