[REL] New Optics for NYGM 3.0 NOW 1.1!

[Hitman]

In case people missed the announcement, it's in the main NYGM thread here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=942910&postcount=86

Stiebler kindly finished and tested a work I did this summer on my vacations, changing the appearence of the optics to follow historic ones, and adding Nicolas superb TDC controls to the peris and UZO stations.

Attack Scope:

http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/7027/74251669vj0.th.jpg (http://img365.imageshack.us/my.php?image=74251669vj0.jpg)

Observation Scope:

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6104/51543379kg6.th.jpg (http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=51543379kg6.jpg)

UZO:

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2937/86694900qf2.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=86694900qf2.jpg)

Enjoy :up:

[h.sie]

awful. is there a version for GWx2.1, too? or a do-it-yourself manual?

[wdq4587]

Just forget post in that "Telemeter scale in the german optics".

I don't think the periscope have a field of view less than 50 degree. Some u-boat commander binoculars have a FOV like 72 degree. Although I have no data of periscope FOV. But I believe it at last should have a 60 degree FOV.

Why you can not seen a 60 degree FOV from the camera picture is not because the camera FOV not big enough. That's because the camera lens can not near the periscope lens enough. And the binoculars or periscope have limited eye relief. Just like there are a hole in wall, if you are not close enough, you can not see wide.

[Hitman]

awful

Thank you. Now I can be sure the mod is in the right pace.

is there a version for GWx2.1, too? or a do-it-yourself manual?

:rotfl:

I don't think the periscope have a field of view less than 50 degree. Some u-boat commander binoculars have a FOV like 72 degree. Although I have no data of periscope FOV. But I believe it at last should have a 60 degree FOV.


No. read the documentation, it took many research hours to find the correct info ;) . The FOV in real german periscopes was 38º in 1,5x zoom.

[Alex]

:huh:
It looks very nice, Hitman ! :hmm:

:rock: :up: :arrgh!: ;)

[onelifecrisis]

:rock: :rock: :rock:
Looks brilliant!

[kranz]

#Hitman

Do you have a .doc version of the pdf containing the tables with range? I'm asking because I get some cr*p while trying to print it(no umlauts, lots of ! ! ! etc)

[Hitman]

Thanks for your kind comments :up:

@kranz

Here you go: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=b65011dd05ef3d6dab1eab3e9fa335cad38d5dbc 07de014c

[kranz]

Thanks:up: Now it looks good. But how to use it? I mean "Mils"= those little vertical marks on the left, yes?

[Hitman]

Hummm I thought it would be more intuitive :lol:

Never mind....

Here is an example: You are looking at a coastal merchant (22.7 metres mast) through your scope at 6x zoom and see this:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3117/examplemt4.th.jpg (http://img228.imageshack.us/my.php?image=examplemt4.jpg)

The top of the mast reaches the "100" mark (In the attack scope that would be the "10" mark, not that divisions there go 20 by 20, not 10 by 10)

You can calculate the distance quickly with a mental formula:

22.7 x 1000 = 22700
22700 / 100 = 227 (Distance it would be at 1,5x scope zoom)

and then multiply by 4 (Because you are in high zoom) to get a result of 908 metres.

Or you can look at the table and find the result like this:

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/9041/tableto6.th.jpg (http://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tableto6.jpg)

The table is setup to be conceptually similar to what you see through the scope, i.e. the leftmost colum matches your scope divisions. The higher the mast on your scope, also the higher you go in that column. Then you simply slide right till the proper mast heigth column, in this case 23 metres (Rounded up 22.7 metres).

This method is way faster than browsing through the recognition manual to find a match and also allows you to make estimates based on funnels, deck, bridge, etc. heigth. If you have a printed manual with silhouettes, this method is the best possible one :rock:

[joegrundman]

this looks fantastic Hitman! Great work:D

[Sailor Steve]

Looks great! I especially like the effect with the UZO.

awful

Thank you. Now I can be sure the mod is in the right pace.
I'm pretty sure he mean "awesome". But I'm also pretty sure you thought so, too.

[kranz]

sure he did. It's cool especially now, when I know how to use it.

PS: One more question: there are 4 subdivisions between 0-50 and 50-100(so:10, 20, 30,40 and 60, 70, 80, 90) and only 3 between 100-150. How come?

[Wilcke]

Excellent work Hitman! This is a must have for NYGM 3.0.

Thank you, sir.

[Hitman]

PS: One more question: there are 4 subdivisions between 0-50 and 50-100(so:10, 20, 30,40 and 60, 70, 80, 90) and only 3 between 100-150. How come?

BUG!!! :damn:

Thanks for reporting, will fix it ASAP meanwhile note that the 150 is in fact one mark higher :shifty:

[wdq4587]

No. read the documentation, it took many research hours to find the correct info ;) . The FOV in real german periscopes was 38º in 1,5x zoom.

38º in 1.5x zoom, that's people normally called 57º FOV from human eyes. (Although calculated by triangle functions it should be 54.6º).

I strongly suggest you enlarge the periscope view as big as possible. In my calculate from a normal distance to view computer screen. It's about 1º per 31 pixels (+20%, -10%). Calculate your 57º FOV using how much pixels. Then you know a ship in your periscope small than a ship in real periscope how much. In my modifiction, I even add a 21X zoom level to emulate the same size in human eye retina. And even with that, you still can not get same distinguish ability as using real optic system for your computer do not display pixels in 0.1 mm size.

And I also strongly against using 2 circles style to show binoculars and UZO. It's looks not professional at all.

[Hitman]

I strongly suggest you enlarge the periscope view as big as possible. In my calculate from a normal distance to view computer screen. It's about 1º per 31 pixels (+20%, -10%). Calculate your 57º FOV using how much pixels. Then you know a ship in your periscope small than a ship in real periscope how much. In my modifiction, I even add a 21X zoom level to emulate the same size in human eye retina. And even with that, you still can not get same distinguish ability as using real optic system for your computer do not display pixels in 0.1 mm size.


FOV through an eyepiece is obviously reduced when compared with naked eye. You are mixing here FOV and amount of detail visible or perceivable, which are two different things. I have been testing my results with REAL binoculars this summer, watching REAL ships from the beach and the FOV is correct, although of course the computer screen resolution limits the detail you can perceive (F.e. in thin parts like masts and cables, or edges of the bridge). Then I also have readed many reports and manuals about the periscopes and their limitations, and you can be sure that using them required experience and ability. The amount of detail and size you suggest is in my opinion way better than the one available on real WW2 periscopes, not counting the dirt and humidity condensed in the lense, water reflections and other many variables that cause noticeable distortion to the image.

But again that's only my opinion and how I prefer the game to look like. I did the mod for my personal use but decided to share it in case someone else liked it and hadn't the skills to create his own one. I'm not going to introduce other modifications that those I like, so anyone not satisfied with the optics, just unistall them or modify them (I gave blanket permission for that in the readme in anything related to my own work).

And I also strongly against using 2 circles style to show binoculars and UZO. It's looks not professional at all.

I also have a version with only one circle in the middle, showing the correct vision when the eyes are pressed against the rubber. I will upload it as alternative for those who prefer it :up:

Thanks

[coronas]

Great work, Hitman! Simple and realistic! :rock:

[h.sie]

oh sh*t, i of course meant awesome and not awful. sorry for my bad english.

[nirwana]

I recommend to disable WA support in reality settings if its not done yet. He will report the distance to the closest target only but i think leave it on would spoil the reality purpose of this mod to a certain degree.

[wdq4587]

To Hitman

There are 2 things: FOV by naked eye and distinguish ability by computer graphics vs real.

You MOD using 425 pixels to represent 57º (or 54.6º) FOV. But from a normal distance, 425 pixels only have 13.7º from player naked eye. (If you don't believe you may measure it youself by using rule). Which mean image is 4X small in player eyes than in captain eyes.

Then what I said is if I enlarge it 4X e.g. using 24X zoom level. So images are look same size from naked eye. But the distinguish ability by computer graphics is still low than real about 1.5X to 2X for pixels normally have a 2.5~3.1mm size not fine enough. Since this case in real is passed by a optical system not by naked eye. I think 1.5X is a good estimate. (Please check binoculars manual)

There are really some day you can get a better distinguish ability from computer graphics. I remember these old days play DOS game like B17 and Aces of the Pacific. The target is very very easy to locate (but very difficult to identify). But now day the SH3 screenshot may just look like a photo. I think it will be some difficult. Although I have to agree with you in particular case like periscope and SH3 lack water reflections my suggestion (e.g. 4X) may be some big. But I don't think it's too big.

Since you have the condition to test (and I don't have). I wish you can do some experiment to check in how much distance you can identify the ship and estimate AOB and compare with the game play. Thanks!

[kranz]

#Hitman

One more issue: NYGM does not allow to choose between pistols. It is locked on magnetic. Is there any way to disable this ability to change them in your mod(locking on Magnetic position)?

[Stiebler]

@Kranz:
NYGM does not allow to choose between pistols. It is locked on magnetic. Is there any way to disable this ability to change them in your mod(locking on Magnetic position)?
Hitman and I discussed this issue by PM a few weeks ago.

Hitman intends to create a revised version of his mod, when he has time, which will remove the magnetic<->impact switch completely, and therefore will create free space to allow better placement of the 'Lock' button.

@General:
In the meantime, of course, it is only necessary to avoid changing the magnetic<->impact switch.

As I've already pointed out on the main NYGM thread, this is a GREAT mod, which I would encourage everyone to try out.

Stiebler.

[Hitman]

You MOD using 425 pixels to represent 57º (or 54.6º) FOV

Nope :nope: , my mod is using 425 pixels to represent 30º!

Why? First of all because I wanted a realistic 38º FOV for the full scope, and second because to leave all the older lines out I had to reduce the visible FOV to 30º, thus eliminating 4º on each side.

But since REAL german periscopes had an EFFECTIVE field of view of around 30º due to image and colour DISTORTION on the borders, I thought it was not hugely important.

I understand your reasoning and critics but as with any mod, a compromise has to be made, and I chose my own option.

Enlarging the whole thing -albeit still keeping the 30º FOV- would be another option to achieve better image quality but I lack the time to do it and since my screen is 21 inch running a res of 1600x1050 I don't really need it, as the vision is good enough.

[wdq4587]

You MOD using 425 pixels to represent 57º (or 54.6º) FOV

Nope :nope: , my mod is using 425 pixels to represent 30º!



30º you mean 1X zoom. But in fact it's 1.5X zoom. Why you use a binoculars?

[kranz]

I've also noticed that there is no TDC ON/OFF button available at both scopes.So when I finally get:range, speed, distance I have to press TDC on the left, turn it ON and set the values or go to scopes set values there and get back to TDC to turn it off(I'm using wazoo wheel method at 100% realism). Is there any way to put a tiny ON/OFF button in scopes view?

[Hitman]

I've also noticed that there is no TDC ON/OFF button available at both scopes

What button do you mean? :hmm:

There is a grey button in the upper left corner of the TDC in all stations for locking it. You can manually input values in the dials and then lock it again.

[Hitman]

30º you mean 1X zoom. But in fact it's 1.5X zoom.

:doh:

I never said it was 1x, it is obviously 1,5x. At high power zoom it is /4 of that figure.

Why you use a binoculars?

Well, because real U-Boat periscopes are not easy to find in stores near my home, you know, so the best next thing I can have to get the proper feeling of what it is to look through optics is a binocular.

[kranz]

In my "version" you cannot input any values to the dials in the scope view. First you have to go to TDC menu(the one with map) turn it on and than put the values.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/9046/15788388dn6.th.jpg (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=15788388dn6.jpg)

[/URL]
[URL=http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=36168221ts6.jpg]http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1999/36168221ts6.th.jpg (http://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=96839903vd4.jpg)

In order to change values marked yellow(target speed and range) I have to go into TDC and press ON button(it is set to OFF by default)

[h.sie]

@krantz:

i guess you can enable/disable manual input into TDC from periscope by pressing Ctrl-T.....

[kranz]

yes-ctrl+T works but I think there should be at least some indication if it is ON or OFF(a small, simple button somewhere between the dials would do)

[nirwana]

I've also noticed that there is no TDC ON/OFF button available at both scopes
What button do you mean? :hmm:

There is a grey button in the upper left corner of the TDC in all stations for locking it. You can manually input values in the dials and then lock it again.
Nope that doesnt work i HAVE to use the switch in the attack map to enable/disable the input. It doesnt matter if anything is locked or not.

@krantz:

i guess you can enable/disable manual input into TDC from periscope by pressing Ctrl-T.....

works only in the attack map

[Wilcke]

Ctrl-T working just fine in all stations where the TDZ is available. Will look for the "gray button".

[wdq4587]

38º is the real FOV in 1.5X zoom, and the 54.6º is the human eyes FOV below the periscope or binoculars. And at 4x zoom, the human eyes FOV do not change (almost) but the real FOV change to about 9.5º.

The binoculars is used for enlarge the small real FOV to a big human view FOV. If the human view FOV do not enlarge, then binoculars is useless. So what represent in GUI about the periscope and binoculars is the human view FOV.


And they talked about are the TDC auto update "feature". I had some comment on that:
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=140804

[nirwana]

When setting a particular depth/speed/stearing in the dials the light grey arrow which moves with the mousepointer left-mouseclick activ is barely visible against the leight creme background. Is their a colorvalue in the mod i can manipulate to adjust it ?

[Hitman]

Nope that doesnt work i HAVE to use the switch in the attack map to enable/disable the input. It doesnt matter if anything is locked or not.


Sorry I understood it wrong before. I was actually thinking you referred to the Lock target button :doh:

OK, now the answer: No, it's not possible to add new buttons (Like the TDC input on/off) to the optics screens, only dials are possible. You will see that no mod that adds a TDC to the scopes has been able to do it, only the key combo is available.

[kranz]

I see. How about an indicator light? ON=light, OFF=no light ?Could it work?

[Hitman]

I don't think so :damn:

In the F6 screen the dials are lighted when you can input data, but in all mods that put dials in other stations that lighting dissapears.

I'm sorry but I think it will not be possible.

[Der Teddy Bar]

Hitman,
Excellent mod that makes my inability to play SH3 since going to Vista Ultimate x64 all the more frustrating :cry:

Your support for the NYGM Tonnage War mod is very appreciated :up:

[Hitman]

My pleasure DTB :up:

GWX has more than enough good modders creating stuff for it, but NYGM lacked mods like this one, that allow a better customization to individual tastes yet still following the original spirit.

[Philipp_Thomsen]

Hitman,
Excellent mod that makes my inability to play SH3 since going to Vista Ultimate x64 all the more frustrating :cry:

Your support for the NYGM Tonnage War mod is very appreciated :up:

I'm running SH3 on Vista Ultimate x64 at the moment. :hmm:

[Stiebler]

To those who seem to be having a little difficulty with Hitman's Optics mod, may I suggest a little training session?

1. Set up a career early in the war, and sail out to find an undefended merchant ship.
2. When you have the merchant ship in view, remain on the surface and use the watch officer's ability to tell you the range to the target.
3. Then go to the IDC (on the menu bar to the left-side of the screen) to familarize yourself with the appearance of the four dials BEARING, RANGE, AOB (angle-off-bow) and SPEED. These are labelled in the IDC, but are not labelled in Hitman's mod.
4. Return to the UZO, and click on the weapon officer's icon, and then click on the range (middle button) for the weapon's officer. This updates all the dials in the UZO automatically. Study the dials to make sure that you understand what changes have occurred. For example, if the merchant ship is sailing at 5 knots, the speed dial will have changed to show '5'. The range dial will have changed to the correct range, which should be close to that which the watch officer told you.
5. Once you understand what is happening, repeat the exercise with periscope attacks on another undefended merchant ship.
6. When you are ready, you can now try to set the data yourself, providing your estimates of range, angle-off-bow, bearing, speed. You input these data by first toggling (CTRL-T) the automatic update of the torpedo calculator to OFF. Note that you can point and click to set some of the dials, others have to be pulled with the mouse to rotate the dials.

Practice makes perfect!

Even if you find the mod too difficult to use for manual calculations, you can always cheat and use the weapon's officer icon to set the dials for you. So you will still have the benefit of the superb new appearance of the instruments, instead of the original views from the UZO and the periscopes.

Stiebler.

[nirwana]

:huh: Aaaargh there is a cheat ?! U shouldnt tell us....:stare::damn:

[Hitman]

Version 1.1 is ready :)

Stiebler will upload it to NYGM FileFront account in some days, meanwhile get it here: http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=b...db6fb9a8902bda

///////CHANGES INTRODUCED IN VERSION 1.1 OF THIS MOD://///////////

-Larger viewport for improved detail. The FOV is unchanged though.
-Sharpened reticles, and a bug corrected in the Observation Scope reticle where the 150 mark was misaligned
-Torpedo Pistol dial deleted, as per original NYGM settings. You can't switch from magnetic exploder anymore.
-"Lock" button repositioned in the place where the torpedo pistol dial was
-New Papenberg image, no longer the SH4 graphic but a reworked SH3 one. Is less brigther and thus makes less contrast when targeting by night.
Thanks to all for the feedback received, I hope this helps enjoying more the mod.
Hitman, September 2008

Screenshot:

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/8773/v11es9.jpg

[nirwana]

Error -412 File not found

[Hitman]

Hmmmmm :stare:

new link: http://files.filefront.com/Hitman+11+Optics+NYGM+307z/;11816623;/fileinfo.html

[nirwana]

:D new link worked..

Left port checking out the new version.

[thehiredgun]

Where can I get the D/L for the latest NYGM?

[kranz]

mby here
http://hosted.filefront.com/TeddyBar/

[thehiredgun]

I want to read the manual & it says the file is corrupted.

[geosub1978]

The Oscar goes to you HITMAN! The 1.1 are the most realistic optics that I have ever seen here! This is what someone sees looking through a periscope, as a picture and as width! If the lenses were a little bit dirty this would be even better!

Pretty easy to integrate it to any mod except NYGM also!

Thanks!

[jimmie]

I like this optics very much and thank you very much Hitman for creating this.

Range finding example for ob scope in the manual is very helpfulI but I still do not understand how to use the attack scope along with the "10" mark.

I read this thread: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=138159&page=2 but in the end the released attack scope has different division to the photograph (3 marks above 10 to the left upper corner in the photo but 2 marks in the released version). Why it's "10" but "5," well, I don't get what this 10 :06:


Could someone educate me about this?

[Hitman]

In the attack scope the "10" mark is exactly where the "100" mark is in the obnservation one. However, in the attack scope each smaller division is 2, and not 1. The scale of visible marks goes therefore 2,4,6,8,10 (Marked)

Rangefinding formula for attack scope is:

Mast heigth x 100
________________ = Distance

Scale

Whereas for the observation scope it is:

Mast heigth x 1000
________________ = Distance

Scale

Hope that clarifies it a bit :03:

[jimmie]

Thank you for the explanation Hitman, much appreciated!

Would you by any chance publish your "commander's handbook" when it's done ? :)

[Hitman]

My personal edition of the U-Boat commander's handbook is done long ago, BUT:

1.- It is in german
2.- It is based on the text translated by some members of a german Flotilla, so I would need to ask for permissions to them. :hmmm:

[jimmie]

I see... let's hope someday there'll be an English version available. I'm sure it'll be *actually* handy. I mean, I have the red famous Kreigsmarine "official" book (translated in English) but when I read I wondered if those captains actually had it with them for the book being seems like Zen practice or something rather than concrete reference of with some data or secrets. (beside the style of English translation is a bit tough to digest for me being non-native speaker :cry: )

[Nedlam]

@Hitman
FAN-FREAKIN-TASTIC!

@Der Teddy Bar
I recently installed SHIII on my laptop that uses Vista. If you want I can send you the step by step process I got from BdU over at W@W. Worked like a charm!

EDIT: There is a printable recognition manual floating out there somewhere?!?!

[Uber Gruber]

@Hitman

I have to say I really like this mod. The recognition manual was becoming such a pain with all the new ships. But i do have a couple of questions that arose whilst I was testing last night.

Everytime i did a calculation using the Attack Scope and the Observation Scope I got different ranges....i've read your manual and this thread but i still seem to be making mistakes when calculating :-(

I use CTRL-T to disengage the TDC so I can manually set the range, but when I again press CTRL-T to re-engage it the range changes back to what it was before. I should say that I did not have the 'manual targeting' or 'disable weapons officer' options checked during this test because I wanted range verification.

Could the optic lenses be a bit dirtier....no water droplets but a bit dirtier all the same.

Do you intend to incorporate Joe Grundman's U-Jagd Tools....namely the whizz wheels, in the same manner that OLC did for his GUI ? I think this would provide a most complete optics mod.

Thats all from me and my mouth,

Cheers, Hans.

[Hitman]

but when I again press CTRL-T to re-engage it the range changes back to what it was before

Very odd. :hmmm: Never happened to me before, and it shouldn't happen to you also.:nope: Only thing I can imagine is a bad install or corrupted file.

Everytime i did a calculation using the Attack Scope and the Observation Scope I got different ranges....i've read your manual and this thread but i still seem to be making mistakes when calculating :-(


Use the printed table I provide in the mod, it's the easiest, quickest and most historical way of doing things :up:

You might be doing wrong calculations with the attack scope, as the divisions are more confusing there :06:

Could the optic lenses be a bit dirtier....no water droplets but a bit dirtier all the same

I think I know what you mean and I have seen mods that have that effect. I'm unsure if I would like it personally, but I had not considered adding it because I can't figure right now how to add it properly.

Do you intend to incorporate Joe Grundman's U-Jagd Tools....namely the whizz wheels, in the same manner that OLC did for his GUI ? I think this would provide a most complete optics mod.


I'd like to add at some point the attack disk to determine course through AOB, but not the reverse side. But I'm currently using my home made attack disk so I don't really need it.

[Uber Gruber]

Thanks for the replies Hitman, i'll check my install. I have Asnovic's version of Racerboys SH4 effects for SH3 installed too, as well as Thomsen's ships, but I'm gonna role back and go with a lean install...GWX plus your mod.

I'd only be intersted in the AOB whizz wheel too, i notice there was a combined mod using your optics and OLCs GUI with the whizz wheel included. I might have a look at that again.

Did they really use the chart you mentioned ? My aim is historical accuracy so if you have any pointers to how they dealt with range estimation then that would be great. I read the docs that came with your mod but i'm thirsty for more.

I'm trying to get an "optimal" and "historically correct" setup ready for the up and coming WolvesAtWar compaign (http://www.wolvesatwar.org).

Cheers, Hans.

[Hitman]

Did they really use the chart you mentioned ? My aim is historical accuracy so if you have any pointers to how they dealt with range estimation then that would be great.

There are hints here and there in some books I have readed about tables, wiz-wheels and pre-calculated stuff, none of them is 100% conclusive about the periscopes, but it is very clear that the Kaleun and IWO had those helps for several tasks so it seems reasonable that they had it also for these quick calculations.

I can show pictures of torpedo manuals that have many of those tables for several purposes, like parallax correction, LUT runs, etc.

Also, in many pictures of U-Boat interiors (Specially the conning tower) you can see many small books that were at hand for consulting when the kaleun sat at the scope or at the bridge.

This material is sadly difficult to obtain :damn: