Help with mission one, "Petropavlovsk", in Akula

[grdja]

Ok. I completed special forces insertion, detected and identified everything. And I get the "cause minor damage to large surface combatant" order to complete mission. Only things of size in mission are Slava and Udaloy. And Slava is exiting harbour... OK, I hit it with one 53cm torpedo, 30% damage... it goes crazy and runs around, it uses its guns to attack and eventually destroy special forces boat on the coast :o:D...

No new radio traffic, no mission complete message.

Is the Udaloy the goal? How to hit it, it is in very shallow waters, I cant get to it, and torpedoes also wont get to it. If I fire missiles they get shot down by Slavas and Udaloys SAMs.

OK, please. How exactly and specifically does one get this mission to trigger complete?

[Molon Labe]

I just looked into the editor and ran the mission. Everything seems to be working for me. My best guess about what could have gone wrong was that you might have hit the Slava before the special forces reached the coast---although this does directly contradict what you've posted. But the "Prevent Exit..." goal is not activated until after the SOF are ashore.

[grdja]

To clarify. After a dozen attempts (strong currents ended up with sfor boat ending several hundred feet from target circle for half a dozen attempts) I completed force insertion objective, soon after that I identified the Udaloy, got "objective complete" for locating all surface assets (had detected all subs before).

I have only "mission completed" and "prevent harbour exit" goals uncompleted, I recieve radio orders to "inflict minor damage on large surface combatant exiting harbour".

Only after that do I fire either couple SS-27-N ASMs or one 53CM torpedo at Slava, it gets damaged... and then it and Victor that was in harbor start running around like mad.

Do I have to wait some time after damaging Slava to get goal complete or is there something else that has to happen?

[Dr.Sid]

Kinda of topic. Currents should be switched of due to poor implementation. It can lead to cavitation and scope or towed array malfunction at incorrect speeds. Winds are wrong too but they wont do that much damage.
However it should not affect the mission goals like in your case.

[grdja]

I've tried checking it out in mission editor, but there are a thousand different triggers and markers. Slava IS counted as a trigger, and its something like (if exists, and gets more than 1% damage than trigger). But I think that there is a area marker where ships should be at before above trigger gets activated, but again, mission area in editor is so cluttered with stuff its impossible to tell.


Now, only reason Im trying to play this one (I've got to mission 3 with USA) is that at mission 3 I have no more option of taking a control of a Russian sub, is it mission specific, or does doing two missions for USA permanently place me on "their" side?


Again, If anyone has played campaign recently and remember it, are there any specifics (time of day, distance from harbor target ship should attain... anything) that are needed to occur before I can shoot them to trigger the goal?

PS. Sorry for repeating myslef like this. Im just annoyed at the thing. When I first got Dangerous Waters years ago, I started campaign with Russians and gave up on the same issue.

[Molon Labe]

To clarify. After a dozen attempts (strong currents ended up with sfor boat ending several hundred feet from target circle for half a dozen attempts) I completed force insertion objective, soon after that I identified the Udaloy, got "objective complete" for locating all surface assets (had detected all subs before).

I have only "mission completed" and "prevent harbour exit" goals uncompleted, I recieve radio orders to "inflict minor damage on large surface combatant exiting harbour".

Only after that do I fire either couple SS-27-N ASMs or one 53CM torpedo at Slava, it gets damaged... and then it and Victor that was in harbor start running around like mad.

Do I have to wait some time after damaging Slava to get goal complete or is there something else that has to happen?

No. I actually hit the Slava before the SOF raft hit the beach. Once they arrived, DW spawned the Prevent Exit goal trigger, which was immediately flagged complete. There was also no erratic activity by the rebels. Before the SOF raft arrived, they acted normally to the torpedo shot.. the Slava and an SSN were investigating. Then once the raft arrived, they broke off, the Slava headed toward the harbor entrance, apparently the result of a script firing.

[Molon Labe]

I've tried checking it out in mission editor, but there are a thousand different triggers and markers. Slava IS counted as a trigger, and its something like (if exists, and gets more than 1% damage than trigger). But I think that there is a area marker where ships should be at before above trigger gets activated, but again, mission area in editor is so cluttered with stuff its impossible to tell.


Now, only reason Im trying to play this one (I've got to mission 3 with USA) is that at mission 3 I have no more option of taking a control of a Russian sub, is it mission specific, or does doing two missions for USA permanently place me on "their" side?


Again, If anyone has played campaign recently and remember it, are there any specifics (time of day, distance from harbor target ship should attain... anything) that are needed to occur before I can shoot them to trigger the goal?

PS. Sorry for repeating myslef like this. Im just annoyed at the thing. When I first got Dangerous Waters years ago, I started campaign with Russians and gave up on the same issue.

There are very few dynamic elements to the campaign. But one of those elements is the presence of platforms. I don't specifically know if anything can change for the 3rd mission though... but since you figured out how to open a campaign mission in the editor, you can do the follow up. =)

[irregular]

Yes I am also having a problem with this mission, except that I am doing it with the P-3. I mark all contacts and take the photos, but the mission wont end.

[AdamMil]

I'm also having this problem using DW 1.04. I've attempted this mission about 20 times with the Akula. Most of the time I get detected. When I manage to avoid that, most of the time the special forces raft goes haywire -- driving sideways at high speed in seemingly random directions. After about 10 failures I developed the tactic of maneuvering nearly inside the special forces drop zone, so that even if it goes crazy, it'll usually still intersect the drop zone by chance.

With that done, the rest of the mission seems pretty easy. I can pop up the periscope and visually detect the patrol ships. Doing those two things -- deploying special forces and visually detecting the patrol ships -- triggers the 'Prevent ships from leaving' goal. More specifically, it spawns a new group that contains five ships and one trigger. The trigger fires, IIRC, so I assume the group was created, but no ships ever try to exit. In fact, I've looked with Show Truth, and none of the five ships ever appear! No ships start going anywhere either. I've also tried damaging all the ships on the map, but it didn't ever help.

This is so frustrating! It seems just impossible to complete this mission. Does anybody know what to do? :-(

[AdamMil]

I eventually gave up and just edited the mission to trigger the "Prevent ship from leaving" goal immediately upon start. Then the ship spawned and I could attack it immediately. With that done, I could finish the rest of the mission in the normal way. (Yay for the mission editor... :-P)

That's the only way I could get it to work, although if anybody has any good insights I'd still be interested in hearing them.

[green_abobo]

:timeout:

is this problem mod or stock?

if its stock do other versions of the game exhibit this behavior?

is there a way around it?

i havent tried it yet and reading this thread makes me want to try it even less.

[AdamMil]

Stock. I haven't tried with any mods.

The problem, I think, is that depending on where exactly units get placed (it's somewhat random), it's often impossible to complete the mission without being detected (as you're supposed to) and perhaps even difficult to complete the mission at all. Sometimes the ships don't leave the harbor. Sometimes they just run aground. I think these problems might be caused by the units freaking out once torpedoes start flying, but as I said before, it's often impossible to avoid detection, which means a fight will break out eventually...

Exacerbating the problems with the mission is the fact that it's not really clear from communications what you're supposed to do. I only really understood my task after looking at the triggers in the mission editor. Also, the final ship(s) that you're supposed to damage just appear out of thin air at one point, so it's confusing.

That said, I'm sure it's possible to win, it's just that it's so easy for something to go wrong. I'd give up on attempting to do it undetected, at least in the stock game. Just kill any subs that may be about to attack you, and maybe use radar or Show Truth to find the ships that spawn at the end, or edit the mission like I did to make it require less luck.

After the first mission, the campaign gets better and more fun, at least on the pro-Loyalist track I took. The first mission just kinda sucks, but I think it's worth it to get past it however you can, even if you have to cheat, so you can enjoy the rest.

[green_abobo]

oh yeah, stupid me fired it right up after i read the thread. spent all night on it.

the subs attack you immediately making life difficult. they even attack before you get the female "you have been counter-detected" notification.

so like you said, idk if its prudent to just attack them as soon as you can acquire a solution, or not, because if you dont they have no problem going after you.

after some aggrivating battles, and getting my towed sonar blown off, i killed the 2 oscar and the 2 victor subs. sometimes there is also a typhoon that spawns as well.

the surface ships just stayed stationary in one spot after that. i id-ed a few of them.

i got the 2nd radio message saying i had failed to be undetected. no kidding.

then i tried to launch the spec ops. they disembarked ok, but they got stuck on the beach, just to the east of the headquarters. that was pretty much game over because its one of the critical objectives.

idk if the secret is to just dive as low as possible and travel at a knot or two to remain undetected. i dont know if its possible to remain undetected.

whoever's boneheaded idea this was to make this mission be the first one should be keelhauled. or they should at least fix it so it isnt messed up.

makes me wonder if everyone that has ever played this game just not gotten past the first mission?

how can you unlock the rest of the campaign if the first mission is nerfed?

edit=

i went to the sonalysts website looking for help. they make it sound so easy.

from what i gather the order should be as follows:

1. get the spec ops to the base w/o detection.

2. then detect (sonar?) and visually identify (periscope?) the surface ships.

3. prevent them from leaving, but dont sink them. heavily damaging one unit should do the trick. very vague.

sounds like a sneak attack on one specific vessel is in order. guessing by using a large salvo of SAMs and or torpedoes.

the biggest problem are the enemy submarines, which will attack as soon as they even think you may be there.

http://www.sonalystscombatsims.com/dangerous_waters/campaign.html

[AdamMil]

I know, it's ridiculous. I crept around at 1 knot and always got detected eventually -- though on my best run I managed to get about 75% of the way through -- so I think it's nearly impossible.

I can't count the number of times I managed to creep undetected up to the installation where I was supposed to drop off the SOF team, only to have them zoom off sideways or get stuck or sink themselves or just not move at all. So frustrating. :-) Yeah, it's terrible that the first impression people get of the game is that it's really bad.

Maybe the other platforms aren't so bad, although I also had trouble with the second platform I tried, and just decided to never play that mission again. ;-)

[green_abobo]

i just spent the last 6 hours on it and im screwed.

i did actually manage to get the spec ops on shore... miraculously.

the freakin ai suicides itself by ramming into each other, or just sinking @ full health (show truth) or beaching itself.

the main objective i have left is to classify the rebel patrol craft.

i visually id-ed everything except a vishnaya agi, and its sitting on the bottom, w/ 100% health, its propellers turning, but its not turning knots enough to register on sonar or move.

i cant use the scope to look at it, its not technically moving so i cant get a sonar read from it.

did they even test this ish? cmon! {end rant} :damn: really considering trying to use the editor to somehow fix this debachle. although i have no idea how thats done.

so heres my glorious campaign results so far:

http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx257/green_abobo/2011-09-14_00001.jpg

[Almost_Saint]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1476159&postcount=2

[AdamMil]

Almost_saint posted a pretty good description of the winning criteria. If you want, I can tell you how to edit the mission to make it easier to win. (Or, if you don't even want to try anymore, you can easily edit it so you win immediately. :-)

[Molon Labe]

I think part of the problem can be seen on the mission status report. You shouldn't have any kills in this mission... kills implies firing weapons, and weapons being fired in a confined areas where the ships don't have room to manuever would explain the collisions and running aground.

Other than the attack you're specifically ordered to perform, weapons tight. And that will help the mission play out as the designers intended.

[AdamMil]

The problem with that is that it's nearly impossible to remain undetected, and once you're detected, a fight is pretty much inevitable.

At least, I maintain that if remaining undetected is feasible, the strategy for doing so is non-obvious to a significant number of players, including myself. Creeping around at maximum depth and 1 knot isn't enough -- I've tried. :-) If it's easy for you to remain undetected on that mission, you could share tips for doing that, which might be pretty eye-opening for the rest of us.

[Molon Labe]

I just did two runs. Screwed up the first by missing with the SOF raft, second was routine... no counterdetections. Stock DW.

Oh, and most if not all of the surface traffic that needs to be identified is visible from the periscope from mission start.

Maximum depth might be counterproductive. My speed ranges from 4 to 8 knots in this, except for launching the SOF team.

replay: http://www.commanders-academy.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=433&d=1316027809