Next President of the United States

[AVGWarhawk]

No, I bet the figures will be the same in the exit polls.
Anyway, that thread turned into a "slam Obama bis", the arguments about Khalidi are really ludicrous.

True, it has turned into a slam Obama bias. Back to the polls, I think they are all over the place and not a very good tool at this juncture to make a early prediction.

[Tchocky]

Didn't McCain's institute give half a million dollars to Khalidis organisation?

ah, irrelevant.

EDIT - found it. http://harpers.org/archive/2008/10/hbc-90003779

This is harmful to neither candidate.

Of course, Khalidi has been involved in Palestinian causes. McCarthy ought to ask John McCain about that, because McCain and Khalidi appear to have some joint interests, and that fact speaks very well of both of them. Indeed, the McCain–Khalidi connections are more substantial than the phony Obama–Khalidi connections McCarthy gussies up for his article. The Republican party’s congressionally funded international-networking organization, the International Republican Institute–long and ably chaired by John McCain and headed by McCain’s close friend, the capable Lorne Craner–has taken an interest in West Bank matters. IRI funded an ambitious project, called the Palestine Center, that Khalidi helped to support. Khalidi served on the Center’s board of directors. The goal of that project, shared by Khalidi and McCain, was the promotion of civic consciousness and engagement and the development of democratic values in the West Bank.

[Konovalov]

Hence why I said this earlier Tcocky. ;)

I wouldn't be surprised if both Republicans and Democrats have had associations with Professor Rashid Khalidi in the past.
These guilt by association ploys haven't appeared to have gained any traction and rightfully so.

[Diopos]

You need a 3rd viable political choice (party).
Quickly!
(Don't think you have enough time for this election though! :) )

[AVGWarhawk]

Hence why I said this earlier Tcocky. ;)

I wouldn't be surprised if both Republicans and Democrats have had associations with Professor Rashid Khalidi in the past. These guilt by association ploys haven't appeared to have gained any traction and rightfully so.

I believe it has gotten traction. A pattern is forming and there are concerns. Never the less, I still think Obama will win but not by a landslide. He is not just winning by his policies, most do not know what they are. Heck, one young voter was interviewed and asked what Roe v. Wade was about. He thought it was a case on racism. Obama's campaign was run like a well oiled machine. Most are voting on feeling and most have better feelings for Obama. Personally, I do not think he is as scary as others would like you to believe. Sometimes I believe his associates were only influential in the respect of understanding different views that will help later in life. At any rate, any one of the two makes it is in for a lot of work.

[Tchocky]

Are you concerned about Khalid Rashidi, AVG?

[AVGWarhawk]

Are you concerned about Khalid Rashidi, AVG?

Yes and no. I do see a pattern with some very staunch activists. Some not so good, Ayers as one of them that went through with his plans. I do not know much about Rashidi at this point. Obama might want to explain why he has flocked with these people. As I stated above, these associations are more of a listen and learn kind of deal as I see it. I would be very surprised if he was in some way making plans other then a run for the Senate and then the presidency. If you think about it, if something really nasty came to light, he would be removed. Not the first time for impeachment. Ask Nixon.

[Von Tonner]

David Axelrod, Obama's chief strategist in an interview yesterday mentioned the number of volunteers expected to be out for Obama on the 4th.

Steve Hildebrand, Obama's ground game guru, told me a while back that you'll have eight million volunteers out on Election Day. True?
We've certainly been in contact with that many people. I don't know exactly how many have been mobilized but it's pretty impressive. Whatever happens on Tuesday, Barack said to us from the beginning that he wanted a campaign from the ground up because that's the kind of politics he believes in and that's how change happens and I think that without a shadow of a doubt we have accomplished that.

"pretty impressive" is an understatement if ever there was one.

[AVGWarhawk]

How many believe that the election will not be decided on Tuesday? How many believe there will be lawsuits and hanging chads? I'm think no, it will not be decided on Tuesday.

[Digital_Trucker]

How many believe that the election will not be decided on Tuesday? How many believe there will be lawsuits and hanging chads? I'm think no, it will not be decided on Tuesday.

Tough to say. Unless it's a total Obamaslide, it could very well go on for months.

[Tchocky]

How many believe that the election will not be decided on Tuesday? How many believe there will be lawsuits and hanging chads? I'm think no, it will not be decided on Tuesday.

Doubt it very much. (Your conclusion, that is)

Obama is ahead by 10% of early voters. If early voters make up 1/4 of the total, McCain will need to be ahead by at least five points on the day, just to break even.

We haven't seen any significant tied polling in the last month.

[AVGWarhawk]

How many believe that the election will not be decided on Tuesday? How many believe there will be lawsuits and hanging chads? I'm think no, it will not be decided on Tuesday.
Doubt it very much. (Your conclusion, that is)

Obama is ahead by 10% of early voters. If early voters make up 1/4 of the total, McCain will need to be ahead by at least five points on the day, just to break even.

We haven't seen any significant tied polling in the last month.

I think we will see some crazy things IMO. Stranger things have happended. Stay tuned!

[Digital_Trucker]

Obama is ahead by 10% of early voters. If early voters make up 1/4 of the total, McCain will need to be ahead by at least five points on the day, just to break even.


Maybe I'm misremembering, but aren't republicans notorious for late voting?

[Tchocky]

Obama is ahead by 10% of early voters. If early voters make up 1/4 of the total, McCain will need to be ahead by at least five points on the day, just to break even.


Maybe I'm misremembering, but aren't republicans notorious for late voting?
I'm not sure. I know that some Republicans werefurious when Charlie Crist extended voting hours for Florida.
The point is, an awful lot of early voters are voting Democratic. There are more and more Democratic voters, and fewer Republican voters. Obama is bringing out people who have never voted before, and McCain simply isn't. In some close Senate races, the black share of the vote is running at census+10%. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that that is not a swing in favour of Republicans.

[Digital_Trucker]

Obama is ahead by 10% of early voters. If early voters make up 1/4 of the total, McCain will need to be ahead by at least five points on the day, just to break even.

Maybe I'm misremembering, but aren't republicans notorious for late voting? I'm not sure. I know that some Republicans werefurious when Charlie Crist extended voting hours for Florida.
The point is, an awful lot of early voters are voting Democratic. There are more and more Democratic voters, and fewer Republican voters. Obama is bringing out people who have never voted before, and McCain simply isn't. In some close Senate races, the black share of the vote is running at census+10%. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that that is not a swing in favour of Republicans.
Never said that I thought the swing was in favor of Republicans, just that early voting numbers can be deceiving. In fact, all polls can be deceiving. The only poll that matters is the one they take at the electoral college.

[AVGWarhawk]

Obama is ahead by 10% of early voters. If early voters make up 1/4 of the total, McCain will need to be ahead by at least five points on the day, just to break even.

Maybe I'm misremembering, but aren't republicans notorious for late voting?

Yes because they are usually at work so they can spread the wealth to Democrats who are not working and have the ability to vote early as a result :rotfl:

[AVGWarhawk]

Obama is ahead by 10% of early voters. If early voters make up 1/4 of the total, McCain will need to be ahead by at least five points on the day, just to break even.

Maybe I'm misremembering, but aren't republicans notorious for late voting? I'm not sure. I know that some Republicans werefurious when Charlie Crist extended voting hours for Florida.
The point is, an awful lot of early voters are voting Democratic. There are more and more Democratic voters, and fewer Republican voters. Obama is bringing out people who have never voted before, and McCain simply isn't. In some close Senate races, the black share of the vote is running at census+10%. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that that is not a swing in favour of Republicans.
How do you know McCain is not bringing out voters who never voted before? I need some hard evidence of this. In Maryland, Democrat regisitration is up 17%. Republican is 12%. You simply can not say he "simply is not". Your sources sir?

[Von Tonner]

Here is my take on things. First, no poll gives a McCain win, that is the first departure point. Secondly, national polls show it is tight - but this is not a popular vote contest. So, what do the state polls say. And here again they all show Obama already with the required 270. But there are still 5 days to go. From my point of view I will be watching Virginia come election night followed by North Carolina - if Obama wins these states McCain can pull out his concessionary speech. If Obama misses on these states the next one to watch is Ohio and Florida.

Personally, I think it is going to be an early night with the pundits - but hey, I could be wrong.

[AVGWarhawk]

As I see it, McCain needs all the swing states. Each of them will be as important as the next. However, it is to little and to late for McCain. But, again, no big deal. We are hosed no matter who gets the nod. :-?

[DeepIron]

All I know is that I'll vote the Democratic ticket this year in my state of Idaho, and the state electoral will go Republican... Every presidential election, just like clockwork... :shifty:

[AVGWarhawk]

All I know is that I'll vote the Democratic ticket this year in my state of Idaho, and the state electoral will go Republican... Every presidential election, just like clockwork... :shifty:

Same with Maryland. Always democratic all the time. None the less, I need to vote against slots and early voting.

[Von Tonner]

As I see it, McCain needs all the swing states. Each of them will be as important as the next. However, it is to little and to late for McCain. But, again, no big deal. We are hosed no matter who gets the nod. :-?

Don't be too pesimistic AVGWarhawk. Here in SA when "white rule" ended and the black majority took over things have not been too bad - certainly not as bad as the doomsayers would have had us believe at the time. You know, you must keep one thing in mind, it can happen that someone who obtains high office against the odds of racism etc can, because of the expectancy of failure from those who find change hard to accept, rises to the challenge and leads comendably. We had it in Nelson Mandela and my gut feel is, you have it in Obama. Just give him a chance before you prejudge him. He might just surprise you.

[AVGWarhawk]

As I see it, McCain needs all the swing states. Each of them will be as important as the next. However, it is to little and to late for McCain. But, again, no big deal. We are hosed no matter who gets the nod. :-?
Don't be too pesimistic AVGWarhawk. Here in SA when "white rule" ended and the black majority took over things have not been too bad - certainly not as bad as the doomsayers would have had us believe at the time. You know, you must keep one thing in mind, it can happen that someone who obtains high office against the odds of racism etc can, because of the expectancy of failure from those who find change hard to accept, rises to the challenge and leads comendably. We had it in Nelson Mandela and my gut feel is, you have it in Obama. Just give him a chance before you prejudge him. He might just surprise you.
The pesimissim I have at the moment is...no matter who gets the nod, we are still in for some long time fixes. This is not an issue of "white rule", there are many of all colors in government that create the entire body of overseers in America. In fact, color has nothing to do with it concerning me. Both candidates could be purple for all I care. Of course Obama will have to set the bar high because of his color. I know he will do so. He has done so already. He has to because he will be under the microscope and ridiculed for every move. Most presidents are under the microscope and Obama more so. You have assumed that I prejudged based on color. Do not assume. I believe you have done so because I have been very sceptical of Obama. I rightly should be when a 2 year Jr Senator is running for President. That is very much at odds with me as through my years it has always been someone that has been in Washington a long time. Most of his past associations are not what I call stellar. As of late, I'm starting to feel his whole campaign has been orchestrated and with help by quite a few on the democratic side of the isle. Also, this election goes beyond just a president. As noted above, there are state issues that need to be voted on. Currently, my state is broke as a joke. The latest Governor(democratic) raised taxes across the board and took the states rainy day fund. Now he thinks slot machines will cure the problem. The money will go to schools. That is bs. The social issues by bringing in slots machines is enough to say no. So, "just might surprise" is the last thing I want to hear. I have had enough surprise for this year and it will cover well into next year. I need, "will fix". I bet my eye tooth that Obama will lower his $250,000.00 tax bill right downt o $42,500.00. Exactly were it is now. You do not cover a 1 trillion dollar plan by taxing those only make $250,000.00 or more. Individual, business or otherwise. Mark my words. :yep:

[DeepIron]

I rightly should be when a 2 year Jr Senator is running for President.And that, as posted by Mr. AVGWarhawk so succintly, is also my major gripe with Mr. Obama.

This guy simply doesn't have the political clout that I would deem necessary to pull off his campaign promises and rhetoric. The dude speaks well, promises much and has done little in his professional political career. If he gets elected, I will put it down to "Media America" and the sway that "image" has over "ability" in this country. He's black, he's young and he has charisma... Precisely the opposite of McCain...

The public is just eating it up...

[August]

All I know is that I'll vote the Democratic ticket this year in my state of Idaho, and the state electoral will go Republican... Every presidential election, just like clockwork... :shifty:

Don't feel too bad. I'll be probably one of 7 McCain voters in my state. I swear if the Democratic party had hitler as their candidate he'd carry Rhode Island.

[AVGWarhawk]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/obamas-new-atta.html



Now people are selfish:shifty: WTH! My money goes to my family, not the slug down the street. This is really getting sour and fast. The spread the wealth comment was so telling. I'm really seeing him pandering to the middle class vote because there are more of them and this is really looking very much orchestrated and many have been involved for years to get him here. It is getting more unbelievable by the minute. Hoodwinked.

[JSF]

Its been my experience people are the average of the friends they keep. Look back on this campaign and examine Obama's closest political friends....Then follow his money.

[Digital_Trucker]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/10/obamas-new-atta.html



Now people are selfish:shifty: WTH! My money goes to my family, not the slug down the street. This is really getting sour and fast. The spread the wealth comment was so telling. I'm really seeing him pandering to the middle class vote because there are more of them and this is really looking very much orchestrated and many have been involved for years to get him here. It is getting more unbelievable by the minute. Hoodwinked.
And this coming from the guy whose running mate, Joe Biden (who makes an average of $245,000 per year over the last 10 years) averages $369 in charitable donations (over the same 10 years). And we're being selfish. What a crock of sh!t.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2008/09/biden-releases.html

[DeepIron]

So guys, what's the answer? The rift between the rich and the poor in this country is widening... Shall we continue to buy into McCain's "old Washington DC" and continue the way things are, more government, more spending, more bailouts, more DC cr*p, or, can we at least consider changing a few things? I doubt seriously BO is going to upset the applecart much in his 4 years anyway...

That being said personally, I'd start with abolishing the Income Tax and seriously consider a flat rate... won't happen, but I can wish...

Don't feel too bad. I'll be probably one of 7 McCain voters in my state. I swear if the Democratic party had hitler as their candidate he'd carry Rhode Island.
Nah, I'm just pragmatic about it. Following the Income Tax, the second thing I'd abolish is the Electoral College and put the vote truly back into the hands of the citizenry....:up:

[Sailor Steve]

All I know is that I'll vote the Democratic ticket this year in my state of Idaho, and the state electoral will go Republican... Every presidential election, just like clockwork... :shifty:

Don't feel too bad. I'll be probably one of 7 McCain voters in my state. I swear if the Democratic party had hitler as their candidate he'd carry Rhode Island.
Utah for the Republicans...all five votes! Did youou know there was a time when some states had split electoral votes?

Nah, I'm just pragmatic about it. Following the Income Tax, the second thing I'd abolish is the Electoral College and put the vote truly back into the hands of the citizenry....:up:
I would only quibble with the word "back". The Constitution deems that Electors be appointed "...in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct..."

That some states started allowing Electoral appointments by popular vote was the choice of their legislatures, and it soon spread to all states. But the election of the President has never truly been in "the hands of the citizenry."

[AVGWarhawk]

So guys, what's the answer? The rift between the rich and the poor in this country is widening... Shall we continue to buy into McCain's "old Washington DC" and continue the way things are, more government, more spending, more bailouts, more DC cr*p, or, can we at least consider changing a few things? I doubt seriously BO is going to upset the applecart much in his 4 years anyway...



McCain is for less government. However, he is onto more regulation of the Wall St lunatics. Remember, the bailout crap concerned all on Capitol hill and much ingnored by all on Capitol Hill. He is not about more spending. He looking to freeze taxes were they are and cut needless spending. You have to understand, BO is one person against the same old Washington you speak of. Unfortunate for BO, he can only upset the apple cart just so far before the citizens raise their hand.

[DeepIron]

So guys, what's the answer? The rift between the rich and the poor in this country is widening... Shall we continue to buy into McCain's "old Washington DC" and continue the way things are, more government, more spending, more bailouts, more DC cr*p, or, can we at least consider changing a few things? I doubt seriously BO is going to upset the applecart much in his 4 years anyway...


McCain is for less government. However, he is onto more regulation of the Wall St lunatics. Remember, the bailout crap concerned all on Capitol hill and much ingnored by all on Capitol Hill. He is not about more spending. He looking to freeze taxes were they are and cut needless spending. You have to understand, BO is one person against the same old Washington you speak of. Unfortunate for BO, he can only upset the apple cart just so far before the citizens raise their hand.I dunno AVG... I'm one of those people who see McCain as just another "Dubb-Ya" Bush... I don't think for a moment that he'll be able to achieve his goals either. Especially when confronted with a Democratic Senate and House. The only reason Bush got his way, IMO, is that the country was reeling from 9/11 and we got committed to the Iraq and the "War on Terror". If we hadn't been there, I don't think the Bush Administration could have gotten the support they needed early on...

But I wander from the topic at hand...

Anyway, I'm not voting for the Presidential candidates... I'm voting for the Vice-Presidential running mates and there's no way in God's green earth I want to see Sarah "Barracuda" Palin as the Prez in case McCain checks out... I don't care how many people say she could handle it with the support of the Fed. The time Palin would waste in assuming the Presidency and "learning the ropes" is not time we can afford these days. I think Biden would make the transition better...

[AVGWarhawk]

I do not think Biden is any brighter than Palin. So, I go for the good looking vote. Palin wins don't cha know :rotfl:

All things being equal, Bush was dealt a really crappy hand. Some of it brought on himself, others not.

[August]

I dunno AVG... I'm one of those people who see McCain as just another "Dubb-Ya" Bush...

I just don't understand how you can see it that way DI. The two men have absolutely nothing in common other than party affiliation.

[Skybird]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,druck-587736,00.html

Land of extremes:

It is impressive how this country, 232 years after it was founded, has lost none of its vitality. Americans have no doubt that crises are natural a part of life -- that they present an opportunity to turn over a new leaf, for each individual as well as the entire country. It is also amusing to hear the political romanticism that all politicians need to muster if they want to be heard. Even in Europe, all democracies rely on pat slogans about change and transformation, about a new awakening and a new beginning. But America has a different quality. America believes enthusiastically in the ability to change the world and mankind.

America's enduring claim to rule the world, however, can be rather disconcerting. In America, the writings of Reinhold Niebuhr are currently experiencing a minor renaissance. Niebuhr, an American theologian whose parents came from Germany, died in 1971, but during his best years, he basically acted as the voice of reason in America. He is attributed with the statement that America bears the "shining armor of self-righteousness," as if it were born to lead the world. Niebuhr wrote: "Our greatest weakness as a nation is our exaggerated image of America's virtuousness. ... We believe that America is exceptional in the world, a people of unsurpassed generosity and benevolence. We assume that God is always on our side and that we have a special bond with the Almighty."

This weakness has characterized the past eight years. If he is well advised, the 44th president will start his first term of office with a greater degree of modesty and humility, either based on his wealth of experience, or thanks to his power of judgment, which stems from an extraordinary life. The world will be rapt with attention as it watches and hopes for a satisfactory ending.

[AVGWarhawk]

I dunno AVG... I'm one of those people who see McCain as just another "Dubb-Ya" Bush...

I just don't understand how you can see it that way DI. The two men have absolutely nothing in common other than party affiliation.

Obama has one point, McCain voted with Bush over 90% of the time. However, he fails to complete the thought. The first 6 years there was nothing but growth. The last two years we have seen nothing but decline. The last two year Congress was run by Democrats. :hmm: Some tid bits of information just do not get out there now does it?

[DeepIron]

I dunno AVG... I'm one of those people who see McCain as just another "Dubb-Ya" Bush...
I just don't understand how you can see it that way DI. The two men have absolutely nothing in common other than party affiliation.:lol: I'm not sure how to read your statement bit I assume you're being a bit sarcastic here. I'm sure, as well read as you are August, that you've been exposed to a number of the same "Bush and McCain" comparisons as I have... I don't call this gospel, but I enjoyed reading it back in March nonetheless: http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/03/12/mccain/

And there have been many other comparisons by the analysts and pundits since...

As for party affiliation, isn't that enough these days? Seem like it's a party vs party war of wills and words with Joe Average American getting stuck in the middle... :shifty:

The last two years we have seen nothing but decline. The last two year Congress was run by Democrats. :hmm: Some tid bits of information just do not get out there now does it?Hmm... I think that's a little unfair. As you pointed out, Bush got a raw deal on a few things, and I'm sure that can be translated to the Democrats and the elections 2 years ago...

[Skybird]

The first 6 years there was nothing but growth. The last two years we have seen nothing but decline. The last two year Congress was run by Democrats. :hmm: Some tid bits of information just do not get out there now does it?
I hope you do not expect any reasonable reader to take that as a logcial argument. Or if a bank gets robbed of and the police arrives later on, the police is guilty of robbing the bank becasue they are there when the safe is empty?

[DeepIron]

An interesting look at Obama as posted at the BBC... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7700913.stm

From the article concerning Obamas critisizm of the "surge" in Iraq:
"Indeed, if Obama had had his way, all American combat troops would have been withdrawn from Iraq by March 2008, which would have led to civil war and genocide; an unprecedented victory for al-Qaeda and Islamic jihadists; and a boon to Iran.This fact is, by itself, a shattering indictment to Obama's judgment, and in the area that is the most important responsibility of a president: his duties as commander-in-chief."

A rather damning statement...

[August]

I dunno AVG... I'm one of those people who see McCain as just another "Dubb-Ya" Bush...
I just don't understand how you can see it that way DI. The two men have absolutely nothing in common other than party affiliation.:lol: I'm not sure how to read your statement bit I assume you're being a bit sarcastic here. I'm sure, as well read as you are August, that you've been exposed to a number of the same "Bush and McCain" comparisons as I have... I don't call this gospel, but I enjoyed reading it back in March nonetheless: http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/03/12/mccain/

And there have been many other comparisons by the analysts and pundits since...

As for party affiliation, isn't that enough these days? Seem like it's a party vs party war of wills and words with Joe Average American getting stuck in the middle... :shifty:

It wasn't meant to be sarcastic. I do realize the Democrats are doing their level best to associate the two men but their backgrounds, their military service, even their political positions over the long term a lot of things are quite different.

The essence of the Democrats accusation that McCain is Bush term #3 is that McCain voted with Bush 90% of the time last year, but according to FactCheck:

So to sum up, McCain has indeed voted to support the unpopular Bush 95 percent of the time most recently, but less so in earlier years. And Obama has voted has voted pretty close to 100 percent in line with fellow Democrats during his brief Senate career

Also we should look at what was voted on in 2007. There's a lot of stuff I daresay you'd vote for too if you had the chance.

[dean_acheson]

it's cute when the dems call Bush and McCain close cronies. it was an open secret when I was on the hill that the two hated each other.

[Skybird]

Montgomery and Patton hated each other, too, nevertheless they fought in the same war, for the same side, against the same enemy.

[August]

Montgomery and Patton hated each other, too, nevertheless they fought in the same war, for the same side, against the same enemy.

and for the same good reasons, just like McCain and Bush.

[DeepIron]

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE49U13P20081031

"She has won conservative hearts and minds on many fronts: she is a devout evangelical; she chose to have a child even when she knew through prenatal tests he would have Down syndrome; she is a populist; and she knows how to use a gun."

1. Devout evangelical. So what? This country is in the process of REMOVING God...
2. Down syndrome child. Hmmm, I wonder if she would have made the same decision had she been a welfare mother?
3. Populist: One who tries to be everything to everybody and ends up mediocre to all.
4. She can fire a gun. Well, that'll be a handy skill in developing foreign and domestic policies...

Oh, they forgot to mention Palin would replace Tina Fey on SNL too .... :roll:

[CaptainHaplo]

Devout evangelical - meaning she still has a moral foundation and belief that rights should be chosen over wrongs. Only some in this country try to remove God thank you, and that is due to the concept that religion is ok as long as its not a Christian one. Not all of the country feels the way san fran and the rest of the left coast does toward God.

Down Syndrome Child vs Welfare Mother - you see here is the biggest difference between the 2 sides. One says lets take on the challenges of life and create our own success in our family regardless of the struggles we face - the other chooses to sit on their A$$ and cry "poor me poor me - I made the decision to get knocked uo, but I won't be able to do what I want to if I have this child - so I will go kill it so it doesnt interfere and I can continue to collect my welfare and food stamps and not have to do anymore than complain about how unfair life is because it doesnt give me more." I realize that is a harsh statement - and is NOT an indictment of EVERY welfare mother - but it is an indictment of MOST of them. Its called personal responsibility - some are willing to take what life deals and play it out - others fold and want big government to just make sure they get some of the pot anyway.

Populist - one adhering to the philosiphy of Populism - defined at dictionary.com as : A political philosophy supporting the rights and power of the people in their struggle against the privileged elite.
Things like taking on big oil - repaying tax money instead of letting the government waste it (or "redistribute" it). Wanting government to get out of your and my daily life. Thinking that government should answer to the people, not the other way around. All things I can agree with.

She knows how to use a gun - and your going to make that a foreign policy statement..... hmm ok. Nothing in thee referenced it to foreign policy - but sure - lets do it for the sake of discussion. Where are the biggest problems in the world today? The middle east. Why has it remained that way? Because of the social practice that the strong have power and the weak do not. This is shown in everything from the fact that still in many places women are considered everything from lesser citizens to mere property to the history of the power struggles that have occured in the region. How is power toppled and gain there? Through the use of violence - who has the gun and who will use it. Gun in this case is also car bombs, IED's and anything else to terrorize those unable to protect themselves. The fact is that the only time effective diplomacy has ever taken place in that region has been when it was done from a position of strength. From the cessation of the 7-day war, the peace accord between Israel and Egypt, the cease fire of the first gulf war, etc etc etc. You need only look at the issue of Iran today to see the same parallels. Those that do not learn history are doomed to repeat it. So lets have Palin walk in with her honest and blunt assessments in foreign policy and a willingness to discuss issues from a position of strength. Whats wrong with that?

Also - its fair to note since the statement itself was NOT pointing toward foreign policy, I will make it clear - the fact that she is a REAL woman - from doing her own shopping to being comfortable with a firearm, just shows that she is more a normal person than the people currently in washington. Did you ever care to find out WHY she knows how to fire a gun? I don't know why - but I will say this - what I do know is she is a woman who cares for her family - and her husband is an avid outdoorsman. Ever occur to you that maybe, like a good spouse, she involved herself in things her husband finds interesting due to her love for him? All spouses, of both genders - should try this on occasion - its a great way to show you care. So lets not go judging "OH MY GOD SHE KNOWS HOW TO USE A GUN!' - instead try to present a REASONABLE arguement for or against positions on the ISSUES!

(To all my liberal friends - sorry - I know your view of family should either be an absent father and a welfare mother or the "roger has 2 daddies/sally has 2 mommies" model, but I continue to support the "TRADITIONAL" definition of a family - its gotten us pretty far after all.)

Nothing in here is meant as a slam on anyone's personal views - but lets talk issues and ideas, not insult someone because you disagree with their ideas.

[DeepIron]

Devout evangelical - meaning she still has a moral foundation and belief that rights should be chosen over wrongs. Only some in this country try to remove God thank you, and that is due to the concept that religion is ok as long as its not a Christian one. Not all of the country feels the way san fran and the rest of the left coast does toward God.Hmm... what was that? Oh yeah... removing the Ten Commandments from a state judicial building in Alabama... A long way from San Francisco my friend.

Down Syndrome Child vs Welfare Mother - you see here is the biggest difference between the 2 sides. One says lets take on the challenges of life and create our own success in our family regardless of the struggles we face - the other chooses to sit on their A$$ and cry "poor me poor me - I made the decision to get knocked uo, but I won't be able to do what I want to if I have this child - so I will go kill it so it doesnt interfere and I can continue to collect my welfare and food stamps and not have to do anymore than complain about how unfair life is because it doesnt give me more." I realize that is a harsh statement - and is NOT an indictment of EVERY welfare mother - but it is an indictment of MOST of them. Its called personal responsibility - some are willing to take what life deals and play it out - others fold and want big government to just make sure they get some of the pot anyway.Hmm.. I guess having sufficient $$$ to properly raise and take care of the child has nothing to do with it...

Populist - one adhering to the philosiphy of Populism - defined at dictionary.com as : A political philosophy supporting the rights and power of the people in their struggle against the privileged elite.
Things like taking on big oil - repaying tax money instead of letting the government waste it (or "redistribute" it). Wanting government to get out of your and my daily life. Thinking that government should answer to the people, not the other way around. All things I can agree with.Unfortunately, the trend has not been to have less government, but more, for decades.

She knows how to use a gun - and your going to make that a foreign policy statement..... hmm ok. Nothing in thee referenced it to foreign policy - but sure - lets do it for the sake of discussion. Where are the biggest problems in the world today? The middle east. Why has it remained that way? Because of the social practice that the strong have power and the weak do not. This is shown in everything from the fact that still in many places women are considered everything from lesser citizens to mere property to the history of the power struggles that have occured in the region. How is power toppled and gain there? Through the use of violence - who has the gun and who will use it. Gun in this case is also car bombs, IED's and anything else to terrorize those unable to protect themselves. The fact is that the only time effective diplomacy has ever taken place in that region has been when it was done from a position of strength. From the cessation of the 7-day war, the peace accord between Israel and Egypt, the cease fire of the first gulf war, etc etc etc. You need only look at the issue of Iran today to see the same parallels. Those that do not learn history are doomed to repeat it. So lets have Palin walk in with her honest and blunt assessments in foreign policy and a willingness to discuss issues from a position of strength. Whats wrong with that?That statement was intended to be more of a sarcasm than anything else. It seems to be the "modus operandi" of this country lately to "shoot first, and dodge questions later"... I offer the recent incidents in Syria and Pakistan...

Nothing in here is meant as a slam on anyone's personal views - but lets talk issues and ideas, not insult someone because you disagree with their ideas. I consider my sense of proportion in these matters more in the line of parody than personal attack... YMMV.

Have a good one.

[ReallyDedPoet]

it's cute when the dems call Bush and McCain close cronies. it was an open secret when I was on the hill that the two hated each other.
http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/08/10/politics/mills650.jpg

:p

I'm sorry Dean, I could not resist.


RDP

[August]

Actually that's a very telling picture. Look at their faces. Note McCains tightened jaw and the sideways glance at Bush out of the corner of his eye. McCain is definitely not enjoying that and neither is Bush.



http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/08/10/politics/mills650.jpg

:p

I'm sorry Dean, I could not resist.


RDP

[ReallyDedPoet]

C'mon August, feel the love :yep::lol::lol:

Actually, it does look little breezy between the two.
Dean will have a laugh :yep:


RDP

[Digital_Trucker]

C'mon August, feel the love :yep::lol::lol:

Actually, it does look little breezy between the two.
Dean will have a laugh :yep:


RDP

:rotfl:He won't be the only one laughing:rotfl:

[AVGWarhawk]

That picture make McCain look like he is hugging his dad. :rotfl: I'm just wondering if his right hand is squeezing Bush's left cheek.

[Zachstar]

Actually that's a very telling picture. Look at their faces. Note McCains tightened jaw and the sideways glance at Bush out of the corner of his eye. McCain is definitely not enjoying that and neither is Bush.



http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/08/10/politics/mills650.jpg

:p

I'm sorry Dean, I could not resist.


RDP

LOL!

That is about the biggest bit of spin I have seen in my entire life!

[DeepIron]

What you can't see is that Dr. Phil is behind them... ;)

[DeepIron]

by the media.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/01/obama.aunt/index.html

"This leak is deplorable and I urge you to take immediate action to investigate and discipline those responsible." Leak my butt... Just another "National Enquirer" moment, I'm sure orchestrated by someone "inside"... Criminy... is there no depth to which these cretins will go? :roll:

[Zachstar]

I really doubt the pubs did this. They don't want to distract from the "Obama = Socialism" lie that has a .3 percent chance of victory rather than .000000000000000000001 that gives.

[dean_acheson]

Montgomery and Patton hated each other, too, nevertheless they fought in the same war, for the same side, against the same enemy.

do you have a point?

Monty hated Patton so much he cooked up Market Garden?

Have you ever heard of the Gang of Fourteen?

[AVGWarhawk]

by the media.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/01/obama.aunt/index.html

"This leak is deplorable and I urge you to take immediate action to investigate and discipline those responsible." Leak my butt... Just another "National Enquirer" moment, I'm sure orchestrated by someone "inside"... Criminy... is there no depth to which these cretins will go? :roll:


I don't know...that is CNN reporting. CNN is in Obama's right back pocket. ABC is in left rear pocket. NBC is in the left front pocket and MSNBC is in his right front pocket. FOX is somewhere around the crack of his rear end known as a lint ball. If it was only FOX reporting, I would be seeing this as another diversion. Is it really? There have been a lot of new reporting on Obama in just the last week. We knew more about Joe the plumber in under two weeks yet we are still finding things out about Obama and this has been going on over 18 months. Things just do not add up here concerning all the byes Obama has received. :hmm: The story is plausible. Do you remeber Jimmy Carters brother Billy? Do you remember Billy Beer? Do you remember Billy taking a leak on a runway? Each family seems to have their strange secrets.

[Digital_Trucker]

Do you remeber Jimmy Carters brother Billy? Do you remember Billy Beer? Do you remember Billy taking a leak on a runway? Each family seems to have their strange secrets.

:oops: You had to bring that up didn't you?:rotfl: This state will never live that family down:damn:

[DeepIron]

Billy Carter was more of an embarassment IMO. The family buffoon...

My point was not so much as the reporting accuracy itself, but more of a "is this side-tracking ever going to end"? rant. Two days before the election and still more junk that has no relevance to the issues at hand. It's just as bad as that moronic crap concerning Cindy McCain from a week or two ago.

Really, in the face of all that we have to get accomplished as a nation, and the choice of the man to lead this country out of it's woes, who cares about this sh*t? Criminy, I'm sure there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of these people in the US that have overstayed their visas. The only thing special about this one is she's BO's auntie and THAT is what makes it "news". Anyone else, or any other time or year and this would be just to much back page drivel.

More FUD, more dirt, more stupidity to satisfy a country that evidently craves this kind of junk IMO. :roll:

[AVGWarhawk]

McCain's brother dialed 911 a week ago because of a traffic jam or some such nonsense as that. :rotfl:

[AVGWarhawk]

Billy Carter was more of an embarassment IMO. The family buffoon...

My point was not so much as the reporting accuracy itself, but more of a "is this side-tracking ever going to end"? rant. Two days before the election and still more junk that has no relevance to the issues at hand. It's just as bad as that moronic crap concerning Cindy McCain from a week or two ago.

Really, in the face of all that we have to get accomplished as a nation, and the choice of the man to lead this country out of it's woes, who cares about this sh*t? Criminy, I'm sure there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of these people in the US that have overstayed their visas. The only thing special about this one is she's BO's auntie and THAT is what makes it "news". Anyone else, or any other time or year and this would be just to much back page drivel.

More FUD, more dirt, more stupidity to satisfy a country that evidently craves this kind of junk IMO. :roll:

Then I guess Palin's wardrobe would also be "news". Anyone else would not even be considered. A tit for tat.

[DeepIron]

Billy Carter was more of an embarassment IMO. The family buffoon...

My point was not so much as the reporting accuracy itself, but more of a "is this side-tracking ever going to end"? rant. Two days before the election and still more junk that has no relevance to the issues at hand. It's just as bad as that moronic crap concerning Cindy McCain from a week or two ago.

Really, in the face of all that we have to get accomplished as a nation, and the choice of the man to lead this country out of it's woes, who cares about this sh*t? Criminy, I'm sure there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of these people in the US that have overstayed their visas. The only thing special about this one is she's BO's auntie and THAT is what makes it "news". Anyone else, or any other time or year and this would be just to much back page drivel.

More FUD, more dirt, more stupidity to satisfy a country that evidently craves this kind of junk IMO. :roll:
Then I guess Palin's wardrobe would also be "news". Anyone else would not even be considered. A tit for tat.It sure would seem that way AVG... just like two little kids, "If you tattle on me, I'll tattle on you!" Childish and counterproductive IMO.

Thank goodness most of this stupidity will come to an end in a couple of days... Then we can get back to the normal day to day silliness... ;)

[AVGWarhawk]

You are correct DI. This has been going on over 18 months and it is really starting to bore me quite a bit. I have spoken to many who just wish it would get over with at this point. No matter which way we go on the vote, we are screwed anyway. Therefore, I'm writing in Mickey Mouse. He can run one hell of a amusement park so I figured he could run this very large amusement park just as well. Go Mickey '08. :up:

[DeepIron]

You are correct DI. This has been going on over 18 months and it is really starting to bore me quite a bit. I have spoken to many who just wish it would get over with at this point. No matter which way we go on the vote, we are screwed anyway. Therefore, I'm writing in Mickey Mouse. He can run one hell of a amusement park so I figured he could run this very large amusement park just as well. Go Mickey '08. :up:Well, please add me to the "I wish the hell it was over list" my friend. BTW, your comment on Mickey and the Disney franchise is a persuasive one! Perhaps I'll reconsider as well... ;)

[AVGWarhawk]

Yes sir! We will turn the Appailacian Mountains into a huge Magic Mountain!

[Spoon 11th]

If The Other Party Wins
http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1888086

[NealT]

Election? What election?

[sharkbit]

Whooo Hooo!! Election Day!!! :sunny:

No more ads after today.

Now I just hope we don't have another debacle like we did in 2000 with no clear cut winner for a month or so. I pray that whoever wins does so with a clear edge and we don't have the court decide the next president.
:D

[Thomen]

Regardless who wins, I just hope the TV Networks keep their mouth' shut and don't call the election early.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/04/us/politics/04network.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[Digital_Trucker]

Regardless who wins, I just hope the TV Networks keep their mouth' shut and don't call the election early.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/04/us/politics/04network.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Good luck on that one. The network that calls the winner (correctly) first gets to say "we told you so first", and in their eyes, that's "journalism". Never mind if it's a guess or based on skimpy statistics. They've got to get the "scoop".:nope:

[DeepIron]

Regardless who wins, I just hope the TV Networks keep their mouth' shut and don't call the election early.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/04/us/politics/04network.html?_r=1&oref=sloginToo late. CBS started indoctrinating it's viewers last night by explaining, in very simple laymans terms, how their various polls were to be conducted during the election... I suspect we'll see some of the "prognostications" again this election as in the past...

[Thomen]

Regardless who wins, I just hope the TV Networks keep their mouth' shut and don't call the election early.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/04/us/politics/04network.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Good luck on that one. The network that calls the winner (correctly) first gets to say "we told you so first", and in their eyes, that's "journalism". Never mind if it's a guess or based on skimpy statistics. They've got to get the "scoop".:nope:

You are correct of course. :shifty:
Not to mention that an early call can influence voter, if not probably influence the outcome to some extend.

[Digital_Trucker]

Regardless who wins, I just hope the TV Networks keep their mouth' shut and don't call the election early.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/04/us/politics/04network.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Good luck on that one. The network that calls the winner (correctly) first gets to say "we told you so first", and in their eyes, that's "journalism". Never mind if it's a guess or based on skimpy statistics. They've got to get the "scoop".:nope:
You are correct of course. :shifty:
Not to mention that an early call can influence voter, if not probably influence the outcome to some extend.

That's what really makes me puke when some news reporter calls themselves a "journalist". They do what they need to do to sell commercials and win prizes for reporting, but there is no concern for what their actions could do to alter something as important as an election.

[Bewolf]

Regardless who wins, I just hope the TV Networks keep their mouth' shut and don't call the election early.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/04/us/politics/04network.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Good luck on that one. The network that calls the winner (correctly) first gets to say "we told you so first", and in their eyes, that's "journalism". Never mind if it's a guess or based on skimpy statistics. They've got to get the "scoop".:nope:
You are correct of course. :shifty:
Not to mention that an early call can influence voter, if not probably influence the outcome to some extend.

Well, what do you expect? the media wants to make money. And money they get by showing what the viewers want to see. Always remember, the nonsense you get is the nonsense the audience asks for, it's not vice versa.

[Thomen]

Regardless who wins, I just hope the TV Networks keep their mouth' shut and don't call the election early.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/04/us/politics/04network.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Good luck on that one. The network that calls the winner (correctly) first gets to say "we told you so first", and in their eyes, that's "journalism". Never mind if it's a guess or based on skimpy statistics. They've got to get the "scoop".:nope:
You are correct of course. :shifty:
Not to mention that an early call can influence voter, if not probably influence the outcome to some extend.
Well, what do you expect? the media wants to make money. And money they get by showing what the viewers want to see. Always remember, the nonsense you get is the nonsense the audience asks for, it's not vice versa.

Not really.. if you look at the ratings and the election campaign coverage so far, the ratings for CBS, MSNBC and CNN went down, thanks to their bias. The media is follwoing its own politcial agenda here, and that is just sad.

[Digital_Trucker]

Well, what do you expect? the media wants to make money. And money they get by showing what the viewers want to see. Always remember, the nonsense you get is the nonsense the audience asks for, it's not vice versa.
The nonsense we get is what the network thinks we ask for. There once was a time when journalism was reporting facts and not reporting them until they were known. This is a lost art. There don't appear to be any journalists left in this country, only "talking heads".

[DeepIron]

The nonsense we get is what the network thinks we ask for. There once was a time when journalism was reporting facts and not reporting them until they were known. This is a lost art. There don't appear to be any journalists left in this country, only "talking heads".Yeah... I miss the days of Cronkhite and the "Huntley and Brinkly Report". THAT was good media jounalism IMO...

[Onkel Neal]

Well, regardless who wins the office, I will support him as President. I may not support his policies (all or some), and if he goes too far against my grain, he may lose my support (Bush, term 2), but at least initially, I have to give my President my support.

[Thomen]

And what's up with Black Panther's "guarding" polling station in Philly? There are some reports of voter intimidation in Philadelphia. BP dudes brandishing night sticks.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=aCeD1RcJjAg

[August]

Well, regardless who wins the office, I will support him as President. I may not support his policies (all or some), and if he goes too far against my grain, he may lose my support (Bush, term 2), but at least initially, I have to give my President my support.

Well said.

[AVGWarhawk]

Well, regardless who wins the office, I will support him as President. I may not support his policies (all or some), and if he goes too far against my grain, he may lose my support (Bush, term 2), but at least initially, I have to give my President my support.
Well said.

Exactly, every president has whacked policies. No matter, I support them. Be it BO or McSame, I will support them unless there is a policy that is really outlandish.

[dean_acheson]

Whoop! There it is!

The next two years should be a gas.

[Sea Demon]

Well, regardless who wins the office, I will support him as President. I may not support his policies (all or some), and if he goes too far against my grain, he may lose my support (Bush, term 2), but at least initially, I have to give my President my support.

I agree. And will give Mr. Obama a chance. Ultimately we have no choice. I trust the system. If he does the public wrong, he will be gone in 4 years. Simple as that. While I'm hesitant about Obama, he will start with a clean slate with me.

[Stealth Hunter]

I'd say you've all heard by now, but anyway, Obama won.

[Konovalov]

Finally I predicted correctly for a change. In the primaries I had picked Hillary Clinton to win easily and I also picked Romney on the Republican side. Wrong on both counts. :oops: When Obama shocked me by defeating Hillary I thought that if this guy who had come our of nowhere managed to defeat the tough Clinton machine then why can't he go all the way?

I congratulate Senator Obama on his victory. I thought his victory speech last night was excellent. It was not hugely triumphunt in tone and also carried an air of reality in that the times ahead are going to be tough.

I also thought that Senator McCain was very gracious in defeat and delivered a speech last night which harked back to the old days of McCain. The real McCain that I once knew and respected.

I can only hope that America comes together, gets through this tough economic time, and comes out the other side stronger and better for it. :yep: