OLC Uber Mod Question

[WeeBubba]

hi there

i have OLC uber mod installed and ive got a question about the periscope zoom and manual targetting please. i looked through lots of threads but couldnt get an answer to this question. if its on the readme, then please forgive me, the OLC download is on an external hard drive which isn't on hand at the moment!

anyway...back to my question... last night i got in position for a night attack on a convoy. i discovered that even though i was quite close the boats were still very small in my attack periscope due to the lack of zoom. consequently (maybe amongst other reasons) i missed with my torpedos.

how do you guys cope with smaller size of the boats when lining up an attack? have you any tips at doing this without the magnification capability?

p.s. im not planning on uninstalling this for the magnification in OLC GUI 1.2.6. Rather Im just after advice to help me as I try to get to grips with this.

thanks for any help. :)

[onelifecrisis]

My tip: track the convoy - for as long as necessary - until you have accurate course (->AOB) and speed data. Then when you attack you only need to use the scope to get the range, and even that doesn't need to be very accurate if you have good AOB/speed readings and you're firing perpendicular to the course of the convoy.
You only need to use the scope to get AOB and speed when making a "now or never" attack, e.g. when you bump into a fast moving ship or task force which you won't be able to flank.
That's just how I do it (I understand this is how the RL Kaleuns did it too) but others may have solutions that suit you better. :up:

[WeeBubba]

Thanks for the quick response. I'll give that a go and be more patient. I guess I need to prepare myself for lots of failures before I get the hang of it properly. At the moment I am constantly ALT TABBING and playing/pausing your movie because I havent got all the stuff memorised yet. It is a fairly complex beast though!

Also any more advice/tips welcome kaleuns! :yep:

[Pisces]

My tip: track the convoy - for as long as necessary - until you have accurate course (->AOB) and speed data. Then when you attack you only need to use the scope to get the range, and even that doesn't need to be very accurate if you have good AOB/speed readings and you're firing perpendicular to the course of the convoy.
You only need to use the scope to get AOB and speed when making a "now or never" attack, e.g. when you bump into a fast moving ship or task force which you won't be able to flank.
That's just how I do it (I understand this is how the RL Kaleuns did it too) but others may have solutions that suit you better. :up:Agreed!

Last week I made an Excel sheet to see how much an influence a course/AOB error would have on a perpendicular shot, and at what maximum range I can be to be 'certain' of a hit (between bow and stern). It turned out one can still hit the average merchant from a reasonable distance (1km or so) if the course is taken directly from a map contact report, provided you fire fast T1's, and the merchant speed is accurate. However, at the end of the day Bernard was succesfull in convincing me not to save that file. :damn: :damn: :damn:

[joegrundman]

Speed is basically the critical factor in a solution, but spreads can deal with that too.

The effects of AOB on target solution are only two fold.

1) is the angle such that the torpedo may fail to explode when using contact pistol? If between 60 and 120, you should be ok in this regard

2) what is the effect of the AOB on the effective speed of the target compared to an ideal AOB of 90?

If the AOB is 90, then the effective target speed is at it's max, the actual target speed, but if the AOB is 180 or 000, then the effective speed is 0 with regards to the lead angle calculation

The variation of AOB in this case has a sine function effect on target speed for calculation of AOB

This means that again for AOB between 60 and 120, there is effectively little difference in the lead angle solution so long as the speed estimate is correct, and for any effectively side on view, programming the TDC for a 90 degree shot is sufficent. You may not get an eel exactly to the correct milimeter on the target, but you'll hit if range isn't too big.

Of course i am assuming you are perfoming straight fire. Curved fire adds major potential errors for range inaccurcies

But in short, if you are firing straight ahead on a target not too far away, and that is approximating a 90 AOB you'll hit it, so long as your speed estimate is correct

Speed can be easily obtained using the constant bearing method, or the U-jagd chrono without ever needing to know a dead accurate AOB or range

[onelifecrisis]

My tip: track the convoy - for as long as necessary - until you have accurate course (->AOB) and speed data. Then when you attack you only need to use the scope to get the range, and even that doesn't need to be very accurate if you have good AOB/speed readings and you're firing perpendicular to the course of the convoy.
You only need to use the scope to get AOB and speed when making a "now or never" attack, e.g. when you bump into a fast moving ship or task force which you won't be able to flank.
That's just how I do it (I understand this is how the RL Kaleuns did it too) but others may have solutions that suit you better. :up:Agreed!

Last week I made an Excel sheet to see how much an influence a course/AOB error would have on a perpendicular shot, and at what maximum range I can be to be 'certain' of a hit (between bow and stern). It turned out one can still hit the average merchant from a reasonable distance (1km or so) if the course is taken directly from a map contact report, provided you fire fast T1's, and the merchant speed is accurate. However, at the end of the day Bernard was succesfull in convincing me not to save that file. :damn: :damn: :damn:

I wonder if we are really on the same wavelength here. :hmm:
When you say "taken directly from a map contact report" you mean using, for example, NNE as the course? :huh:
I would get much more accurate AOB data than that from a proper map plot based on (at least) two sightings or one contact report and one sighting. If the AOB is accurate and the shot is perpendicular then the range does not need to be accuate. If I'm reading you right, your spreadsheet assumed accurate range readings?
Also, a fast torp speed would increase the chance of a hit only when firing at a bearing close to 0 (I'm ignoring the chance of the torp being spotted, here). Consider, in contrast, a perpendicular shot at a ship at a bearing of 45 (AOB 315). If you were to set the torp speed to match exactly the speed of the target (e.g. just 7kts) then you would have a 100% hit chance regardless of what range you put in the TDC (assuming AOB and speed were measured accurately). That's not to say I think one should set (visible!) steam torps to slower speeds. Rather, just use electrics, and get the best of both worlds. :know:

Edit: cross-posted with you, joe.

[Pisces]

Yes, I meant the NNE kind of course. Turning 90 to that when you are in front of the target. But I didn't mean to advise someone to do that (you knew me better than that, right?), just that it can work with some caveats. I plot positions beyond the point most people start yawning before I get to firing. To get course to the degree and speed atleast to a quarter knot (the speed dial doesn't go much further), then turn 90 degrees ahead of him. As I want to know for sure the torp lands on the hull where I want it. Well, as much as I can.

The spreadsheet I mentioned was made to isolate and learn how much a course deviation has an influence on shooting in a perpendicular setting. It's not for use while playing. The speed is an important variable so I set it to known values (and this is where it falls apart tactically, because you can hardly get speed known without getting a course of some sort), and the target is on approach to my periscope centerline set up correctly to lead for a particular speed. Torpedo's are fired with 0 gyro angle. I used the following diagram to devellop my formula's:
http://members.home.nl/rico.v.jansen/torpedo_fire.gif
I fire my torpedo when the target's center passes my periscope line. Ideally and normally I would chose a spot on the hull, but here I will settle for a hit on the hull anywhere. It is expected that the center of the target and torpedo reach the impact point(crossing of vertical and horizontal lines) simultaneously. But because of a course deviation the target can pass the impact point early or late (thicker lines with dots) because the course deviation causes shorter and longer target paths between impact and leadangle. A closing course would have the target arrive late (same speed over longer track in same time), an opening course would have the target pass before the torpedo arrives (shorter track to impact, yet same speed in same time). As such the torpedo would land on the front or rear halve of the ships hull. If the target is near then it would not be a big problem, as the ship's halve length is long enough to overlap the aiming-error angles (grey diagonal lines alongside the torpedo track) and torpedo track to ensure a hit. But when the target is alot further away the ships halve length might not be long enough to overlap it and the torpedo might pass behind the stern (opening course) or infront of the bow(closing course). In that spreadsheet I calculated the size of those aiming-error angles (both sides; they differ significantly) for every target-speed and a set error angle (the map contact uncertainty of 11.25 degrees seemed an interesting value to investigate) per torpedo speed (were on different sheets). Taking the maximum error angle for each speed it calculated the distance at which a certain ship's halve-length (done for 78.5m and 140.5m merchants but could be any other) would fit just inside the angle. A simple sine equation inside a slender triangle. So it provided "fire or not" deciscion-range tables for speed and length based on a particular course deviation and torpedo speed. Whether of not you should fire depends on how certain you are of your distance to the impact point, with whatever way you figured that out. But that was not the point of my excercise. And I said, the results will remain a mistery until I redo all of this. Stupid Bernard!

BTW, for those that are not aware of the other meaning of the word: my use of the word 'error' meant no fault on the part of the shooter (other than being stuppid enough to fire with that much uncertainty), it just means a deviation from the ideal.

[tomfon]

Hallo Pisces.
All in all i believe distance should be the last think one should
deal with before launching his torps.
I know about the calculations you describe and the interesting
11.25deg error (BTW this is quite anerror for any calculation) and in my opinion speed and course should be the two key factors
before atacking. If you know these two things then you can fire a single torp
at any target sailing within a convoy and from my (short) experience torps are
likely to miss only if fired from a distance greater than 2800-3000 meters.
The more accurate a plot is, the less important the errors become.:yep:

@ OLC
I think you are right. I am taking risks. Whenever i attack a convoy the distance from the outer column closest to me is 500-600 meters. Still alive though.:o